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Cornell undergrad here, AEM is ridiculously easy and not cut-throat at all as long as you have half a brain. It's one of the easiest majors in Cornell. Can't say anything about comparing recruiting between Cornell and Georgetown though, I can say that JPM/MS/GS/Citi/BoAML/BarCap/DB/CS/UBS visits us on campus.
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Jul 9, 2012 16:27
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shensterz posted:Cornell undergrad here, AEM is ridiculously easy and not cut-throat at all as long as you have half a brain. It's one of the easiest majors in Cornell. You wouldn't happen to have gChat or Skype where I could ask you some questions would you? Thank you
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Jul 9, 2012 17:14
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As someone who doesn't go to Cornell or Gtown I can tell you Cornell will be way better for Ibanking/finance but both schools can get you to Ibanking if you try hard enough.
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Jul 10, 2012 01:11
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There are both Cornell and Gtown people in my analyst class, but I would say a few more Cornell. For what it's worth, I'd recommend Cornell for better networking opportunities (more senior bankers from there, and they're the ones that can really make or break you) and because D.C. loving blows as a place to live. This whole "target/non-target" obsession really is one of the reasons I hate that website. My class is pretty large--including APAC, EMEA, and Credit/Risk, roughly 240 kids--and only around 25 are Ivy Leaguers. Maybe 70% came from schools with 2 or less recruits. These figures aren't exact (can't find my little handbook with the stats) but they're definitely pretty close. I know there hasn't been an entering first-year analyst from my school since back in '09--and I went to a top university that historically recruits very well. There may only be like four or five truly "target" schools left at this point, so why not concentrate more on enjoying college? I've met really senior guys (I mean like, Group Head at Morgan Stanley senior) from schools that are more likely to win the NCAA basketball tournament than place an analyst at a bulge-bracket bank through normal channels. In summary: network your balls off, because unless you go to Wharton, NYU, Columbia, Harvard, or Princeton (have I missed any?) on-campus recruiting efforts won't get you that far. Know your poo poo, be social, don't come off like a douche bag or nerd, be persistent but not annoying, and be sure to highlight stuff you find you have in common with people so that they'll want to help you. I can't even stress enough how much that last bit helps. Also I just Seamlessed Ray's Famous Pizza by the way omg this poo poo is so good omnomnomnomnomnom I'm getting fat.
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Jul 10, 2012 04:18
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I kind of disagree with your statement that there's only a few target schools left. I go to Notre Dame which most people don't think of as a target but every single BB bank still takes 3-5 people between IB and S&T from on campus recruiting alone not to mention all of the other buy side gigs that recruit here too. I'm stupid and lazy...worked as a camp counselor summer after freshman and sophomore year and didn't even attempt to network but dropping my lovely 3.75 GPA resume on the career center website job listings and having decent interviewing skills landed me a sweet buy side internship in Manhattan which pays $6000/mo and will likely lead to a full time offer. Sure I could have landed the same job at a state school if I networked like crazy but point is there's a lot more room for error and a lot less anxiety if you go to a school like Cornell over Gtown where one has wall street very much integrated into the on campus recruiting system and the other probably doesn't. I hope I don't sound elitist, its just the reality of how powerful on campus recruiting is.
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Jul 10, 2012 04:55
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Swingline posted:I kind of disagree with your statement that there's only a few target schools left. I go to Notre Dame which most people don't think of as a target but every single BB bank still takes 3-5 people between IB and S&T from on campus recruiting alone not to mention all of the other buy side gigs that recruit here too. I'm stupid and lazy...worked as a camp counselor summer after freshman and sophomore year and didn't even attempt to network but dropping my lovely 3.75 GPA resume on the career center website job listings and having decent interviewing skills landed me a sweet buy side internship in Manhattan which pays $6000/mo and will likely lead to a full time offer. Sure I could have landed the same job at a state school if I networked like crazy but point is there's a lot more room for error and a lot less anxiety if you go to a school like Cornell over Gtown where one has wall street very much integrated into the on campus recruiting system and the other probably doesn't. A little off topic, what are you thoughts on ND for ppl who don't want to do IBanking but stay in Chicago? If you have any thoughts feel free to PM me.
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Jul 10, 2012 06:27
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Swingline posted:I kind of disagree with your statement that there's only a few target schools left. I go to Notre Dame which most people don't think of as a target but every single BB bank still takes 3-5 people between IB and S&T from on campus recruiting alone not to mention all of the other buy side gigs that recruit here too. I'm stupid and lazy...worked as a camp counselor summer after freshman and sophomore year and didn't even attempt to network but dropping my lovely 3.75 GPA resume on the career center website job listings and having decent interviewing skills landed me a sweet buy side internship in Manhattan which pays $6000/mo and will likely lead to a full time offer. Sure I could have landed the same job at a state school if I networked like crazy but point is there's a lot more room for error and a lot less anxiety if you go to a school like Cornell over Gtown where one has wall street very much integrated into the on campus recruiting system and the other probably doesn't. They have the same OCR opportunities. The Gnome fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Jul 10, 2012 12:34
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tolerabletariff posted:There are both Cornell and Gtown people in my analyst class, but I would say a few more Cornell. For what it's worth, I'd recommend Cornell for better networking opportunities (more senior bankers from there, and they're the ones that can really make or break you) and because D.C. loving blows as a place to live. Interesting, as that's definitely not the case that I've heard before..what firm are you at, if you don't mind me asking? The Gnome fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Jul 10, 2012 12:37
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The Gnome posted:You wouldn't happen to have gChat or Skype where I could ask you some questions would you? Thank you Happy to answer questions but we're on opposite timezones and I get Skype/gchat access only after work and before bed so it'd be tough. You'd get a better/more prompt response shensterz fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Jul 10, 2012 16:22
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So I'm networking with alums in IB, been going pretty well so far. One alum (VP at a BB) gets back to me responding "Hey [Swingline]... How are you? I'd love to catch-up. This week is going to be a bit tough. How is your calendar for next week?" He pretty much pulled a move straight out of American Psycho by not reading my email and assuming I'm some guy he went to undergrad with who wants to catch up I think. My email is pretty clear so that has to be the case. I'm gonna respond tomorrow morning...what the hell do I say that will let him know I'm a rising senior that he's never met without ruining my chances of having a productive informational interview?
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Jul 11, 2012 03:07
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menino posted:A little off topic, what are you thoughts on ND for ppl who don't want to do IBanking but stay in Chicago? If you have any thoughts feel free to PM me. I don't have PMs but feel free to email me with any ND finance scene questions -> raptor.45@gmail.com
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Jul 11, 2012 03:08
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Swingline posted:So I'm networking with alums in IB, been going pretty well so far. One alum (VP at a BB) gets back to me responding "Hey [Swingline]... How are you? I'd love to catch-up. This week is going to be a bit tough. How is your calendar for next week?" Some people literally just talk like that. I've responded to email requests once or twice to meet up with people in a similar vein, but only if someone I know has sent an introduction email first
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Jul 11, 2012 03:18
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You're 100% right about Notre Dame, I always forget about that place until I meet an alum--there's been at least one pretty much everywhere I've worked or interviewed. I've kicked myself a few times before for not going there, seems like a fantastic school that's probably fun to go to and has a great alumni network. I work at a big U.S. ibank. Actually my analyst class is about 60 larger than I'd estimated so the 25 or so Ivy Leaguers are an even smaller proportion than I originally though. Although that includes around 100 non-US bankers and another 30 or so kids that aren't strictly-speaking IBD proper. It's possible that they're throwing off the stats somewhat but there are plenty of folks from places like 'Zona, 'Bama, and tiny liberal arts colleges (not even Amherst/Williams, like ones I'd barely heard of)in banking. There's been a major retrenchment in full on-campus recruiting over the past few years. It's pretty expensive for banks--which are hiring fewer recent-grads as analysts now anyway--to fly 10+ professionals & HR types out to schools a few times for info sessions, let alone put them up for a few days of interviews. But it's not like they're going to bring on their entire analyst class from 8-10 schools, so there's a lot of room to network your way in from places off the beaten path. I named the 5 schools that all bulge brackets and a healthy number (15+) of other banks recruit fully on-campus at, and I'm not sure that there are others that fit that bill. Beyond that, every bank has different preferences and although there is definitely some overlap, maybe only Chicago, Stanford, Northwestern, Michigan, Cornell, and Texas-Austin* get close to the core schools. I actually had a lengthy conversation at a cocktail with a senior HR person in JPM S&T recruiting so I know how concentrated their schools are. Cornell/Columbia/NYU/Baruch/MIT/GTown make up a significant portion of entering intern classes (and there's almost no separate full-time recruiting). Evidently they have a model based on a number of factors--performance reviews, how long people stay with the bank, whether interns accept offers, etc.--that spits out what schools to focus on and how many students to take from each. If the model doesn't like a school, they get cut, unless there's a senior banker with clout from there or the university's president sits on the bank's board (ie Brown & Goldman Sachs). Part of the reason is because their S&T intern class is only around 85 and full-time is about 50, with maybe 40-45 having been former interns and the rest laterals or off-cycle recruits. *Any bank with a Houston office recruits here, a lot of times oil & gas recruiting is separate from general recruiting. tolerabletariff fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 03:56
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tolerabletariff posted:You're 100% right about Notre Dame, I always forget about that place until I meet an alum--there's been at least one pretty much everywhere I've worked or interviewed. I've kicked myself a few times before for not going there, seems like a fantastic school that's probably fun to go to and has a great alumni network. Really? I've never heard of any bank where the majority of the entering intern class comes from either Baruch or MIT?
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Jul 12, 2012 16:19
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It's two years of your life. Go somewhere that doesn't suck. They're both in the same league afaik. You ever been to Ithica? Don't.
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Jul 18, 2012 08:25
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Its Miller Time posted:It's two years of your life. Go somewhere that doesn't suck. Forreal. Have fun, don't be too drunk to get As, and worry about the job market when you get there. The only reason I'm working where I am is because a kid I used to get shitfaced with went to bat for me. Okay, not the only reason--having a good GPA and relevant experience helped--but when it came down to it, neither was enough to get me through traditional on-campus recruiting. RE: Baruch & MIT--not sure how you got that from what I said. I know both of those schools sent a number of interns, neither as many as Columbia/NYU/Cornell though. But again, S&T at JPM recruits from a much smaller base than their IBD, for example. tolerabletariff fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jul 20, 2012 |
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Jul 20, 2012 23:07
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Alums are awesome.
Swingline fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Jul 31, 2012 |
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Jul 25, 2012 01:32
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gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress At what point in the night do you say 'gently caress it, i'm goin around the horn' and pass on the exciting opportunity to get an hour or two of caffeine0addled sleep? would your answer change if you haven't slept for two days and you can feel your heart reeling from massive stimulent intake
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Jul 31, 2012 10:30
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Prestige doesn't matter!
The Gnome fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Aug 1, 2012 23:55
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The Gnome posted:What's your opinion of Cornell and Georgetown in terms of prestige? I'm considering the potential career path of an Investment Banker, and as such, have to place a certain amount of empathsis on prestige. I'm curious to know your view on how they rank in that category; certainly, Cornell can't carry the same "prestige" as an "old boys club" as the other members of the Ivy League share, or am I mistaken? (due to its size and diversity, but I could be wrong.) I'd ideally like to attend Cornell for this reason (among others) but I feel as though I have accomplished to much more with my acceptance to Georgetown (~10% acceptance rate). It may have a lot to do with the fact that Cornell spouts an unbelievable ~50% acceptance rate into half of it's colleges, whereas Georgetown is a much more modest ~10-15%. Pair with this the homogeneity of the campus and student culture, and it's almost a close 2nd to HYP in my eyes. I'm curious to know your opinions though, as another Ivy League student. Thanks! I think they're both pretty comparable for finance jobs. Focus on getting solid internships under your belt freshman/sophomore summers, crushing a top GPA, taking on leadership positions in finance clubs at your school and network a ton - the results will be the same. Just go to the school you think you'll enjoy more.
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Aug 2, 2012 04:21
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Swingline posted:Just go to the school you think you'll enjoy more. For real. That's how I picked my school, and for the most part I think I made the right choice. For what it's worth, Cornell is probably the best choice for banking, even if the rest of the Ivy League likes to poo poo on it. That said, I think Gtown is a better school overall and because of its size will have a closer-knit alumni network (Catholic schools also tend to be stronger in this area generally). Plus it has great IR and public policy departments where you'd be dumb not to take a few classes. As much as I hate the capital area--overexposure, maybe, or perhaps I'm just a cold-weather person--Ithaca doesn't have poo poo on D.C. You listed pros and cons earlier that demonstrate you at least know what you're looking for. For your Cornell pros, cross off "Ivy League" because I promise you that is now pretty much irrelevant. GTown's academic reputation is on par with or better than UPenn (excluding maybe Wharton), Cornell, Dartmouth, and Brown. It's not like going to an Ivy makes you automatically a member of the 'old boys' club... you actually have to be a member of the old boys club. Yes, Cornell might get a bit more recruiting on-campus, and yes, it has a bit stronger brand in banking--but now more than ever, it's your personal brand that counts. What you make of it is 10x as important as where you go. But beyond that, from what you've said you're going to have a better time at Gtown. It'd be stupid to base your college choice off of what you think banks want to see, because (not to sound like a dick) your probability of getting a job in corporate finance or capital markets is pretty loving bad no matter where you go. Out of the 250+ people in my class that went to every Street info session, I'd estimate that about 25 wound up in those roles at decent banks and maybe 35 overall are in front-office banking roles of any kind, anywhere. A senior exec started a speech to my program by saying that there were between 100 and 1000 people that went out for every seat in the room. That's probably an exaggeration, but I doubt it's that far off.
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Aug 2, 2012 12:55
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Also be aware of the fact that a lot of things that have nothing to do with the college will determine how much fun you have fun in college. Silly things like which dorm you get placed in, who's living in your hallway, and who you happen to meet in the first week are almost more important than which college you go to. I got put in a hallway full of shitheads my freshman year and since they were my de-facto friend group (that's sort of how it works at ND) my freshman year sucked. Luckily I met another group of dudes who are real cool and got a suite with them my sophomore year so I'm having a blast now.
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Aug 3, 2012 01:41
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Took out school name
The Gnome fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2012 01:51
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The Gnome posted:Interesting. What school do you go to? I'm going to go out on a limb here and venture Brown? And you guys are both right, I guess the "Ivy" name was getting to me..poo poo. Ok here's the deal: For Ibanking specifically as long as your school has strong on campus recruiting presence it doesn't matter where you go since once you drop your resume junior year it's all down to how well your format/word/present yourself on your resume, GPA, relevant internships, leadership and ECs in that order in terms of getting an interview (I'm serious you can have a 3.9 and a sick internship under your belt but if you're resume has a single typo or things are formatted lovely its in the trash). Cornell = Gtown = ND = USC = Brown = Columbia every other school on their level in that respect for banking. However, if you're at HYP, Dartmouth, or Stanford there will be a serious benefit for other (non-banking) arguably more elite and higher paying finance jobs directly out of undergrad. I'm talking mega hedge funds like Bridgewater and mega PE firms like Blackstone that will recruit heavily at those schools. Cornell is unfortunately not one of those schools (not saying none of those firms will recruit just a lot less of them and on a smaller scale). That's not to say they don't recruit outside of HYP, just on a much smaller scale. For example Blackstone happens to actively recruit at ND simply because we lucked out and have some awesome alumni who work there who pushed for us as a target. After securing a job out of undergrad, HYP may look slightly better on a resume for jumping firms or switching industries but whats 1000% more important is your work experience and how well you performed. I hope that cleared things up for you. Go to Gtown since Cornell students have no fun and its really cold up there pretty much.
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Aug 3, 2012 02:55
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From a Georgetown Alum, it is loving awesome. Placement is whatever, like the posts said above unless you are at harvard stanford princeton, its mostly a wash. Besides, in this economy your grades and your ability to hustle is gonna matter a lot more.
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Aug 3, 2012 05:02
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fougera posted:From a Georgetown Alum, it is loving awesome. Placement is whatever, like the posts said above unless you are at harvard stanford princeton, its mostly a wash. Besides, in this economy your grades and your ability to hustle is gonna matter a lot more. Awesome. What was your major? Do you work in banking? Apparently every BB other than JPM recruits there..
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Aug 3, 2012 23:08
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Swingline posted:Ok here's the deal: I think you guys are severely underestimating the recruiting at Georgetown and Cornell. They are miles ahead of schools such as USC and ND. ND just recently started getting some firms recruiting on campus. You can't honestly tell me that either of those two schools has recruiting from every major bulge bracket firm, as well as top elite boutiques which Cornell does. Georgetown is similar, save for a few boutiques.
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Aug 4, 2012 20:50
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The Gnome posted:I think you guys are severely underestimating the recruiting at Georgetown and Cornell. They are miles ahead of schools such as USC and ND. ND just recently started getting some firms recruiting on campus. You can't honestly tell me that either of those two schools has recruiting from every major bulge bracket firm, as well as top elite boutiques which Cornell does. Georgetown is similar, save for a few boutiques. GS - check JPM - check MS - check DB - check BAML - check CS - check Citi - check Blackstone - check Barclays - check Lazard - check Nomura - check UBS - used to recruit but these day's they're too busy laying off first year analysts two days before bonuses I guess. +A million very respected MM firms (Jefferies, Houlihan Lokey, Baird, etc) Did I forget anyone? Source: I go to ND.
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Aug 4, 2012 21:57
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Edited.
The Gnome fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2012 00:28
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The Gnome posted:That may be true, however they don't take more than half a kid from ND. They recruit at other schools too such as Babson, Bentley, Baruch. Doesn't mean they take a ton of kids from there, though. In indiana, IU is the better option, way more kids on the street. ND doesn't have many kids at all in banking. That's not to say ND is horrible, because you can definitely get in from there. But there's arguably better recruiting and more alums on the street at Cornell for example than ND and especially more kids going to elite boutiques than ND has. Uh, I don't think you understand. When I say a bank recruits here I mean they have first rounds at ND and send like 5 kids to superdays. Theres countless ND kids and big swinging dick MDs on wall street. Get off your elitist high horse Cornell is a poo poo school.
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Aug 5, 2012 16:56
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Can we please not have this degenerate into a Wall Street Oasis-style shitshow? Seriouspost: I'm about two years out of school and have been on the operations side of a large-ish hedge fund for about a year, after spending a year in public accounting. I'm a CPA and I'm working on the CFA program. What would be the best course of action to hop over to more of an investment analysis role? Internal networking opportunities are somewhat weak, and I'm considering applying to b-schools in the top ten.
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Aug 5, 2012 19:13
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Thanks all!
The Gnome fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2012 20:04
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ND: More fun than Cornell by a mile. You've also listed a lot of metrics that don't apply to banking. You're also failing to consider the fact that Cornell has a 75% larger undergraduate population, and that of that population, far fewer students are interested in banking. People largely don't go to ND for banking, but to Cornell they sure do--your competition will be stiffer at the latter school. Moreover, the way being a 'core school' works is that each bank will take a certain number of students from there, whereas being a 'target' or 'satellite' school produces a lot more variability--there's no set number of spots, so if you make it to the 'mixed' Superday stage, you're competing against the Superday pool at large for 'at-large' spots, as opposed to against students from your school for a smaller number of spots. I interviewed pretty widely senior year across many different industries, but there was one constant: I was interviewing against, or with, someone from Notre Dame at every stop. Cornell isn't a poo poo school, but the rest of the Ivies poo poo on it because of its size, state-school programs and atmosphere, and perceived lack of selectivity. Every Ivy loves to poo poo on every other Ivy, though, so don't read to much into that. Please don't let this thread devolve into WSO. There are plenty of people willing to measure dick length by school rankings there.
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Aug 6, 2012 00:42
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Thanks guys!
The Gnome fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Aug 6, 2012 01:22
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As another rising Finance Senior at ND who doesn't know much about other schools' efforts at the same thing: There's probably something to be said that ND gets thought of less for Wall Street due to our affinity with Chicago vs NY. The Finance department and the Career Center are really pushing to change that and as Swingline said, they've been doing an amazing job getting companies to come recruit and helping prepare us students with interviews and internships. The alumni network is ridiculous and our higher level classes really hammer that home. I have a class next semester that is basically a de facto 'get your rear end on Wall Street' class. Our teacher told us to keep football weekend Friday's open because he ropes alumni in for meet and greets when they come early for games. It's such a uniquely Notre Dame thing and I love it. I came to ND for the atmosphere and amazing business school (in general). I've been pumped to find how much effort they're putting into IBanking.
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Aug 6, 2012 21:23
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The Gnome posted:Do you by any chance have Skype or GChat? I have a few questions I'd like to ask you about working in IB, if you don't mind. Thanks for the help. PM me or leave your contact info
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Aug 7, 2012 00:41
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tolerabletariff posted:PM me or leave your contact info Rising junior in Operations Research and Financial Engineering here. I've also got a few questions, I hope you don't mind if I pm you my contact. I'm in a bit of a pickle and desperately need advice. edit: Can't pm. My Skype is "boringgenericsn".
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Aug 9, 2012 21:27
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I think interns just finished across most banks. This year will likely be very brutal, probably at least as bad as last year if not worse. If you're looking for internship for next year summer then it's ok-ish, I think banks always hire a decent number of interns. However if you haven't done a finance internship yet, it'll be a tough road ahead... If you're looking for a full-time without having interned in banking, best of luck because pretty much half of the banks have implicitly indicated that they'll take vast majority of full-timers from this past intern class. However, the offer rate seems to be pretty miserable this year from what I've seen, not to mention a few banks pushed back their offer communication date which can be Very Bad. On an unrelated matter, I've been officially in banking for 2 years  3 years is my limit, so one more year to dig myself out of this hole...edit: gently caress so sleep deprived I can't even remember the right : toot :... Socialism fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Aug 11, 2012 |
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Aug 11, 2012 20:00
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Thanks!
The Gnome fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Aug 12, 2012 02:49
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The Gnome posted:Thanks man! You'll be fine - having past finance internship is more often than not just a "tick the box," especially for interns since everyone knows sophomore internships are 99% BS. Just make sure you can at least answer the basic finance questions - e.g. how to calculate EV, what are the main valuation methods, what does an investment bank do... No one expects juniors to know much - you'll be mostly evaluated on qualitative stuff like "why banking," "why this bank," etc. Frankly banking interviews are very easy and predictable, just be personable and able to tell a decent story about your experiences. edit: also completely unrelated advice (not targeted at you) - for all new or wannabe-bankers, please make sure you don't leave any embarrassing or controversial trails on the internet. You will be found out. (e.g. don't be a dummy and tell everyone your personal details on internet forums!) Socialism fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 12, 2012 05:13
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