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MC Fruit Stripe posted:John Hoynes resigned in the previous episode because he leaked a bunch of information which resulted in an embarrassing tell all book. It's a really good episode, you should go out of your way. Matthew Perry really surprises me - I think of him as the 4th or 5th funniest cast member of a decent sitcom, so to see that kind of range was unexpected. Not disagreeing with your post for the most part, but I think you're the first person I've met who didn't think Perry was the funniest person on Friends. Even people I know who didn't like Friends usually qualify it with, "Except Chandler. He was funny." Sorry, just had to mention that.
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Aug 1, 2012 19:00
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:Can't we just agree that there is no way that a force depletion report is done in 20 minutes by a brand new employee who earmarks a part of that time for socialization? The way I remember the pacing was that it was subtly clear that some time had passed between his order to create the report and Donna showing up. But it was not obvious in the way the scenes were cut. Edit: Also, thanks to whomever fixed my avatar text. 
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Aug 1, 2012 20:23
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Aatrek posted:"Babies come with hats?" God, that whole monologue. Toby 
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Aug 1, 2012 20:31
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I haven't read trough the thread all the way yet, but I am in the middle of season six on episode thirteen and I LOVE this show. I wrote it off for years but I love it and Josh just made a snippy comment along the lines of "what are we gonna do next? Tell North Dakota South Dakotas name is cooler?" I thought it was a nice call back to when he sent Donna to deal with the issue a few seasons back....
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Aug 1, 2012 21:51
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Looks like Agent Butterfield is going to be the mayor on the new CBS 'Vegas' show
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Aug 3, 2012 02:34
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VISMAL posted:I haven't read trough the thread all the way yet, but I am in the middle of season six on episode thirteen and I LOVE this show. I wrote it off for years but I love it and Josh just made a snippy comment along the lines of "what are we gonna do next? Tell North Dakota South Dakotas name is cooler?" I thought it was a nice call back to when he sent Donna to deal with the issue a few seasons back.... Just finished season six and my God was all the campaign stuff fantastic, I got to into the end of the DNC when Josh alluded tho their pick for Vice POTUS I actually said "You" Right before Josh said it to Leo. I was so happy, I have wanted Leo up there since Hoynes left I was praying for Leo's ascension to VEEP. Great show
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Aug 3, 2012 02:42
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Kloaked00 posted:Looks like Agent Butterfield is going to be the mayor on the new CBS 'Vegas' show Michael O'Neill's mustache is very authoritative, so it's good to see him (and O'Neill too, I guess) in another show.
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Aug 3, 2012 03:36
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I've seen seasons 1-4. I want to see seasons 6 and 7 but I've heard really bad things about season 5. Can I skip it or is it worth watching at all?
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Aug 3, 2012 16:59
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Mexal posted:I've seen seasons 1-4. I want to see seasons 6 and 7 but I've heard really bad things about season 5. Can I skip it or is it worth watching at all? I tend to give out the same advice when people ask this sort of question, but at the very least, watch it once. Then after you've seen everything, you can decide what to skip. I think you'll find at least a few episodes in season five worth watching on subsequent viewings of the whole series.
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Aug 3, 2012 17:01
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Flumpus posted:I tend to give out the same advice when people ask this sort of question, but at the very least, watch it once. Then after you've seen everything, you can decide what to skip. I think you'll find at least a few episodes in season five worth watching on subsequent viewings of the whole series. Yea, fair enough. No real point skipping it if I plan on watching the whole show. Has to be some character development worth it. Thanks.
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Aug 3, 2012 17:04
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That said, there is no information in Season 5 or the first few episodes of Season 6 that is important to know for the rest of the series. If you just want to watch the campaign episodes, you can start at 6x10 Faith Based Initiative. There's a small Santos part in 6x06 The Dover Test, but then Bartlet goes to China and we leave the Santos narrative behind for a few episodes. I agree, though, that it's worth watching the series straight through and that Season 5 isn't that bad, just not as good as the rest.
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Aug 3, 2012 17:08
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At the very least you're gonna want to watch the first episode, unless you love unresolved cliffhangers.
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Aug 3, 2012 17:09
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Mexal posted:I've seen seasons 1-4. I want to see seasons 6 and 7 but I've heard really bad things about season 5. Can I skip it or is it worth watching at all? Watch it. It's not nearly as bad as everyone says it is, and it's not bad television, it's just not up to the standards that seasons 1-4 set.
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Aug 3, 2012 18:24
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Mexal posted:I've seen seasons 1-4. I want to see seasons 6 and 7 but I've heard really bad things about season 5. Can I skip it or is it worth watching at all? I like Season 5, I don't love it but there are incredible episodes and scenes throughout it that make worth your while.
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Aug 3, 2012 19:39
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Watch it, at the very least for the Shutdown story arc. Like it's been said, it's not terrible, just easily the worst of the seven seasons. If you enjoy spending time with the characters definitely watch the whole series.
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Aug 3, 2012 22:05
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Man, Will Bailey, am I right? Episode 406 WILL Chuck Webb is a seven-term Congressman who, as chairman of not one but two Commerce sub-committees, has taken money from companies he regulates. He's on the board of the NRA and once challenged another Congressman to a fistfight on the floor, over an amendment to make stalkers submit to background checks before buying AR-15s, AK-57s, Street Sweepers, Mac-10s, Mac-11s. He's joined protests designed to frighten pregnant women. JUNE What's your point? WILL There are worse things in the world than no longer being alive. Yes? After that episode: Oh my god, can we get this guy in the show? Please, every episode, I need more, please, god get him in the show. Fast forward. Episode 501-722 WILL Waaaah, if I don't groom this guy to become president then my legacy is tainted and I won't impress my daddy, waaah, no one invited me to the cool kid's table, stomp stomp stomp, waaaah! (That was possibly paraphrased) Such an impressive debut, but god does he get old quick.
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Aug 3, 2012 22:14
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You think? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S78RzZr3IwI
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Aug 3, 2012 23:01
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:Man, Will Bailey, am I right? Yeah, gently caress that guy. He's like the worst parts of Josh and Sam (smug, patronising, snobbish) without any of the charm, humour, humanity, principle or decency. That said, I gain a certain amount of schadenfreude from the scene where he says to Leo that he's been trying to work out what he and Bartlet saw in Russell to make him Vice President. I always get the feeling that Leo's on the verge of laughing in his face and calling him a loving idiot. "What are you, a loving idiot? That's why you've been working for Bingo Bob, because you thought we liked him? Joke's on you, sucker. Grow some nuts, you pathetic sack of poo poo." I really dislike Will.
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Aug 3, 2012 23:10
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HorseHeadBed posted:I really dislike Will. Apparently. Don't you remember what Sam said: he's one of them. MC Fruit Stripe posted:Such an impressive debut, but god does he get old quick. You're right, he starts off really strong. I love him in all of season 4 and he comes back stron in 7. I also think he's a fun counterpoint to Josh during the campaign trail. He just comes off weird in season 5, which the majority of the main characters do, only he doesn't have the good will built up from being on the show since the beginning to fall back on.
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Aug 4, 2012 04:55
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HorseHeadBed posted:I really dislike Will. It's weird because he's sort of the guy you can imagine Sam being 4-5 years before Bartlett's campaign gets underway. He's got the energy, the enthusiasm, the righteous indignation (that Chuck Webb speech) and a knack for predicting the weather. His main problem is that he doesn't have a few years to become disillusioned with what he's doing. Josh is working for Hoynes until Leo shows him something better and it takes Josh to drag Sam into the fight. And Bartlett's fight to become president isn't a sure thing at all (it's noticeable that we see nothing of the Presidential election) so there's undoubtedly some pretty hairy stuff they go through to get to the White House. But Will gets none of that. He takes on a losing cause and, in winning a pyrrhic victory, gets fast-tracked to a White House run by people he almost idolises (note his chat with Sam about who each of them has written for). poo poo, his first job is to write an acceptance speech. He's not part of the inner circle when Bingo Bob is chosen as VP, so when he sees that this is the "Because I might die" guy, why wouldn't he assume that Bob's got hidden depths? His mistakes are almost all due to factors outside his control, but he gets grief from Toby and Leo about his decisions and - even when it's clear Bingo Bob shouldn't be running anything more serious than a coconut shy - resists the temptation to point out what gigantic shitheels the rest of the West Wing have been. Frankly, Will is a loving American hero. I say that as a full-blooded British citizen.
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Aug 5, 2012 00:58
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kingturnip posted:It's weird because he's sort of the guy you can imagine Sam being 4-5 years before Bartlett's campaign gets underway. He's got the energy, the enthusiasm, the righteous indignation (that Chuck Webb speech) and a knack for predicting the weather. His main problem is that he doesn't have a few years to become disillusioned with what he's doing. quote:WILL
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Aug 5, 2012 01:15
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I don't think this thread has nearly enough love for Joey Lucas. I mean, her introduction is one of my favourite scenes in the show - Josh is so bewildered, it's fantastic!
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Aug 5, 2012 02:29
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Khoryos posted:I don't think this thread has nearly enough love for Joey Lucas. I loving love Joey Lucas, and Marlee Matlin is just... 
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Aug 5, 2012 02:40
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On the Santos / Vinnick election day episode. Wow there's a lot of sex in this one Edit: Leo 
Kloaked00 fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Aug 5, 2012 |
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Aug 5, 2012 03:24
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kingturnip posted:It's weird because he's sort of the guy you can imagine Sam being 4-5 years before Bartlett's campaign gets underway. He's got the energy, the enthusiasm, the righteous indignation (that Chuck Webb speech) and a knack for predicting the weather. His main problem is that he doesn't have a few years to become disillusioned with what he's doing. These are all good points. And I'm British, too! To be fair, I think that in the later seasons Will becomes a crutch for the scriptwriters when people start leaving, getting promoted, getting fired, etc. He gets shuffled around in the game of musical chairs in the season 5-7 staff musical chairs. It makes him seem like a wishy-washy opportunist arsehole with no principles.
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Aug 5, 2012 04:58
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Will sucks because during the primary he pushes Russell as "the one who can win in the general" despite the fact that when Bob was chosen, he was pushed on the WH by the Republicans specifically because they thought he was a crappy potential nominee and he'd be easy to beat, and Will (and everyone else) knew this at the time.
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Aug 5, 2012 17:28
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Bingo Bob was the best choice at the time. Santos was a nobody who actually quit politics before Josh convinced him to come back. And the other was guy known for cheating on his wife.
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Aug 5, 2012 18:14
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gohuskies posted:Will sucks because during the primary he pushes Russell as "the one who can win in the general" despite the fact that when Bob was chosen, he was pushed on the WH by the Republicans specifically because they thought he was a crappy potential nominee and he'd be easy to beat, and Will (and everyone else) knew this at the time. Er, this is emphatically not the case. He wasn't part of the group that selected Russell, so didn't know that he was selected specifically for his mediocritry. It's also worth noting that various top democrats were also pushing for him in order to avoid creating a strong challenger for themselves. In any case, from Will's perspective the president (a man he admired, respected and trusted completely) must have had faith in Russell to have apointed him to such a crucial office, setting him up as the most likely successor to his legacy. Considering his relative inexperience with Washington politics and his Bartlett hero worship, it's not unreasonable for his character to have assumed the "hidden depths" motive rather than political expediancy. Of course, on occasion Russell did show competence, which would give Will reason to keep believing.
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Aug 5, 2012 18:25
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One of the subplots in one of the White House episodes in the sixth season is Will trying to get at everyone who was in the room for the Russell decision to figure out why they picked him, actually.
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Aug 5, 2012 18:31
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Austen Tassletine posted:Er, this is emphatically not the case. He wasn't part of the group that selected Russell, so didn't know that he was selected specifically for his mediocritry. It's also worth noting that various top democrats were also pushing for him in order to avoid creating a strong challenger for themselves. In any case, from Will's perspective the president (a man he admired, respected and trusted completely) must have had faith in Russell to have apointed him to such a crucial office, setting him up as the most likely successor to his legacy. Considering his relative inexperience with Washington politics and his Bartlett hero worship, it's not unreasonable for his character to have assumed the "hidden depths" motive rather than political expediancy. Of course, on occasion Russell did show competence, which would give Will reason to keep believing. Will and Toby wrote the speech making fun of Russell that accidentally got put into the teleprompter when Bartlett was announcing it. Will wasn't in the room when Russell got pushed on them, but he knew that Russell sucked. And Russell only showed competence once as far as I recall, when he suggested that the nuclear test may have been Israeli, and that was as much luck as competence.
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Aug 5, 2012 18:35
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Which goes back to what I was saying about him - Will's not pushing Russell because he thinks he's the best choice, he's pushing him because if he pulls it off, he's the guy who got Bob Russell elected president. It's simple vanity.
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Aug 5, 2012 18:40
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Even if he didn't know at first, it's a pretty huge dick move by everyone else not to have someone pull him aside for a minute and explain that Bingo Bob is an empty hat. Obviously you don't say that in the middle of a big group meeting, but you owe it to the guy who's about to spend the next two years working for the guy to have a discreet discussion where you say, "Uhhh, yeah, about Bob Russell..." If he still goes for it after that, he's the fool.
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Aug 5, 2012 18:56
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I think Toby does try to do that a couple of times, including when they're locked in the office together during the lockdown, but he's so hurt after being abandoned that he screws it up by being an rear end about it.
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Aug 5, 2012 19:06
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gohuskies posted:Will and Toby wrote the speech making fun of Russell that accidentally got put into the teleprompter when Bartlett was announcing it. Will wasn't in the room when Russell got pushed on them, but he knew that Russell sucked. And Russell only showed competence once as far as I recall, when he suggested that the nuclear test may have been Israeli, and that was as much luck as competence. Hence why he questioned Leo as to why they would be willing to put Russell a heart beat away from the presidency and in pole position to succeed Bartlett in a couple of years. It seems rather harsh to condemn Will for the crime of trusting his idols. If Russell wasn't fit for office, he should not have been selected regardless of the political difficulties in finding someone better. In fact, if Russell was as useless as some people percieved him, surely it was gross negligence from Bartlett & Co to appoint him. Rather than accept that they would be willing to put the country/world at such a position, he chose to believe that there was a good reason. Besides which, when he joined Russell there were no other credible candidate in the field. I can't recall the exact timeline, but I don't believe Santos had even been introduced, and Hoynes was still in disgrace. He saw Russell, the vice president, chosen deputy and presumed successor to the popular Bartlett, as the best chance to keep a democrat in the White House. Once he became Russell's manager, he naturally did what he could to achieve that. Basically, gently caress the haters. Will is great. I'm British too! Perhaps it's only us who appreciate him.
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Aug 5, 2012 19:40
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BrooklynBruiser posted:I loving love Joey Lucas, and Marlee Matlin is just... She's great if only for when Charlie tells Josh that she's a beautiful woman.
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Aug 5, 2012 20:00
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:Which goes back to what I was saying about him - Will's not pushing Russell because he thinks he's the best choice, he's pushing him because if he pulls it off, he's the guy who got Bob Russell elected president. It's simple vanity. I agree, and I think it makes him a much less like-able character.
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Aug 5, 2012 20:03
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The House Republicans foisted a list of unelectable vice presidential options on the White House, not a list of people that would be horrible in the job or couldn't handle presidential duties. Russell was one of the ones that Bartlet and Leo assessed wouldn't be in the overlap group.
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Aug 5, 2012 20:29
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There were a couple of people on that list that Josh and others absolutely loved, but there's no way they'd ever be elected.
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Aug 5, 2012 20:46
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jeffersonlives posted:The House Republicans foisted a list of unelectable vice presidential options on the White House, not a list of people that would be horrible in the job or couldn't handle presidential duties. Russell was one of the ones that Bartlet and Leo assessed wouldn't be in the overlap group. And yet the only argument Will makes in favor of Russell being the nominee is "he's the most electable", so Will is either lying or wrong.
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Aug 5, 2012 20:54
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gohuskies posted:And yet the only argument Will makes in favor of Russell being the nominee is "he's the most electable", so Will is either lying or wrong. The other main candidates in the race were a former VP that resigned in disgrace, a three term House backbencher, and a far left Senator running as a one issue candidate on UHC. The runaway frontrunner declined to run right at the New Hampshire filing deadline, remember.
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Aug 5, 2012 23:04
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