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Xguard86 posted:The biggest egoists and assholes I've met were always going on about respect and how they were so morally superior to those thuggish (whatever style) guys because they bow to sensei and are totally humble, let me tell you how humble I am because I am a deadly human weapon but you'd never know it because I understand true Budo and mediate under I love you? I'm sorry? :P
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Aug 8, 2012 18:25
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Xguard86 posted:The biggest egoists and assholes I've met were always going on about respect and how they were so morally superior to those thuggish (whatever style) guys because they bow to sensei and are totally humble, let me tell you how humble I am because I am a deadly human weapon but you'd never know it because I understand true Budo and mediate under hunh? I'm talking about the pre-fight ritual that Thai boxers do before they, you know, actually fight. Paul Pot was mocking it, which I thought was pretty stupid. Not sure what you're going on about.
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Aug 8, 2012 18:42
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entris posted:I hope this is tongue-in-cheek. The Thai pre-fight ritual is about paying respects - to one's instructors, one's opponents, the judges, and the crowd. It takes a few minutes and actually requires you to focus on it. 
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Aug 8, 2012 19:12
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Pre-fight rituals are one of those things, depending on where you are and what you're competing in you'll be generally expected to bow or do the muay thai two-step. It sounds though like you're talking about MMA in particular (maybe boxing) where those social impositions don't actually apply since there is no expectation for you to bow to your sensei or the judges. In such a circumstance it seems like it'd be weird to do those things at all. In MMA and boxing (to a lesser extent due to the style and training variations being pretty limited in comparison) you enter the ring to compete, and whatever pre-fight ritual you decide makes you feel better about the fight, you just sort of do. Plenty of MMA cats will bow upon entering the ring and whatnot, then 90% of all fights will start with an in match glove touch, which I would say counts as some sort of respect tradition, even though it's not mandated. Short version, everyone has their little superstitions and social quirks, and I have no idea the point you're trying to make.
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Aug 8, 2012 19:15
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:I watched a friend's capoeira class tonight. The physical aspect of it looks like so much fun, but I can't handle the musical part. The teacher was really easy going with all the backflips but then got angry at his class for not remembering the words to a song. He angrily exclaimed at one point "If you don't like singing, you picked the wrong sport!". Hahaha there's a capoeirista sitting here next to me right now when I read this (do not ask why one would sit and read internet with one of those around though) and I read it to her aloud - with a guffaw. Surely the mestre shall vary! She was like "yeah, gently caress that, normal, if you can't do your backflips who cares it's your personal problem but if you can't sing or drum it's off from the energy of the whole group so, you know". 
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Aug 8, 2012 19:32
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:I watched a friend's capoeira class tonight. The physical aspect of it looks like so much fun, but I can't handle the musical part. The teacher was really easy going with all the backflips but then got angry at his class for not remembering the words to a song. He angrily exclaimed at one point "If you don't like singing, you picked the wrong sport!". It's a totally different world. There's a lot of auditory clues you have to pay attention to which are vital to playing well. And it's actually the one martial art where learning the language is almost mandatory, because a lot of instructions and critiques come from listening to the music. Certain musical clues will key you in on when to start playing, when to stop, when to attack, defend, dodge, counter, you can even request players do fancy backflips and insult bad playing or jackasses. One of my favorites is when someone fucks up and there's a song about a big banana tree falling down in the forest because he thinks he's hot poo poo and get the gently caress out you suck. I remember an open roda where there were 3/4 different mestres, and one of the mestres absolutely torched and embarrassed a girl for her inability to understand. There were a lot of contributing factors (she's been playing for many years, doesn't train hard or regularly, rather arrogant, goes through motions by rote without any interaction, was pretty clueless and rude). So yes, music is rather important to capoeira. It'd be like a completely deaf ballet dancer trying to improv to different music each time they dance. Sure sometimes the pure skill of the dancer will shine through, but most of the time it'll just look like a clueless idiot.
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Aug 8, 2012 21:00
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 edit: I now understand.
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Aug 8, 2012 21:07
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Kumo Jr. posted:Please tell me you're joking? No wonder you come across as such a troll. "The great Chael Sonnen" is a loving joke. He'll be forgotten about by the end of the year as a loud mouth with no longevity or achievement to speak of in the sport of MMA. http://chaelsonnensaidso.com/ "Listen Wanderlei, I will do a home invasion on you. I will cut the power to your house and the next thing you'll hear is me climbing up your stairs in a pair of night vision goggles I bought in the back of Soldier of Fortune magazine. I'll pick the lock to the master room door, take a picture of you in bed with the Nogueira brothers working on your 'jiu-jitsu.' I'll take said quote unquote photograph, post it at dorksfrombrazil.com, password - not required, username - not required. That, Wanderlei, is how you threaten someone. Dummy." Say what you will about the dude but his incomprehensible rants are pretty funny.
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Aug 8, 2012 21:24
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Novum posted:
My initial point is that the muay thai "two-step" isn't a superstition or a social quirk, it's a gesture of respect. Paul Pot had described it as some sort of homage to "pygmy gods" or somesuch, which is pretty ignorant and somewhat disrespectful of the ritual. My secondary point is that I wish other competitive martial arts also placed a premium on respect for the sport, for one's opponents, etc. I don't really get the backlash here - you show respect in thai boxing in a way that is more serious than boxing or MMA, and I think thai boxing, as a sport, is better for it.
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Aug 8, 2012 21:33
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I'm an ignorant first world brat, but I like watching kickboxing (and other fight sports) because it's cool and fun and I just kinda sit there and twiddle my thumbs bored if they do that two step around the ring and flail their hands thing. I get that it's a traditional Thai thing, but I have no interest in it and I'm pretty sure you can respect your opponents without doing a ritualistic dance before every fight.
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Aug 8, 2012 21:42
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Muay Thai is all about showing respect. In fact, you only pretend to fight for the first couple rounds out of respect for the gambling establishment. I'm still unsure if the respectful shooting of imaginary arrows at your opponent extends to gun gestures commonly found in those profanity-laden hippity hop videos; need to burn some incense and ask my family's swamp spirit brb
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Aug 8, 2012 21:51
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Kumo Jr. posted:I love you? I'm sorry? :P sorry that was probably meaner than necessary, there are just so many fat arrogant people in martial arts that desperately need to be hit in the face, but never will thanks to their group delusion. They ooze false humility/enlightenment out of every pore on the mat, and then go to the locker room and bitch how their ex-wife is taking all their money.
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Aug 8, 2012 22:19
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Now you're just being rude  I enjoy sealing the ring. It gives you a moment of calm before the storm to focus yourself, and is a pretty solemn way of showing respect for the art's history and your opponent. Is it a little corny looking on the outside? Sure. But like was said, almost every martial art has it's quirks and traditions. The music does hurt my head worse then a good kick to the brain case , so I'll give you that one.
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Aug 8, 2012 22:26
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Ligur posted:Hahaha there's a capoeirista sitting here next to me right now when I read this (do not ask why one would sit and read internet with one of those around though) and I read it to her aloud - with a guffaw. Surely the mestre shall vary! When you're not in the middle of the roda playing, you aren't a mere spectator, you're still part of the roda and the roda is a dynamic living thing, as much a part of capoeira as gloves are of boxing. You're supposed to participate, and 'participating' means helping keep the energy of the entire roda. I mean, sure, if you don't speak Portuguese and aren't familiar with the lyrics of songs, I don't expect you to sing them flawlessly, but I certainly expect you to try. And keep clapping those hands energetically. If you don't, it's as if one of those guys in curling with the little brooms just walked off and went to do his own thing. You're supposed to keep brushing that floor, man
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Aug 8, 2012 22:52
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Cyphoderus posted:If you don't, it's as if one of those guys in curling with the little brooms just walked off and went to do his own thing. You're supposed to keep brushing that floor, man I'm pretty sure this thread must have the highest ratio of tortured sports analogies per post
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Aug 8, 2012 22:57
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I want to start a fight wear brand that sells casual self defense clothing like fedoras with razors on the brim or walking canes with swords inside. Maybe trench coats with hidden pockets for a sai or smoke bombs. Unlike other fight wear there'd be nothing garish like skulls or flames.
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Aug 8, 2012 23:23
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origami posted:I want to start a fight wear brand that sells casual self defense clothing like fedoras with razors on the brim or walking canes with swords inside. Maybe trench coats with hidden pockets for a sai or smoke bombs. Sometimes I read what you post and imagine you getting halfway through the llc process and stopping
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Aug 8, 2012 23:43
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Xguard86 posted:sorry that was probably meaner than necessary, there are just so many fat arrogant people in martial arts that desperately need to be hit in the face, but never will thanks to their group delusion. They ooze false humility/enlightenment out of every pore on the mat, and then go to the locker room and bitch how their ex-wife is taking all their money. I don't disagree with you. I thought your original post was right on the mark for a lot of phoney-humble types. As long as we agree that not all that are humble are faking it, than we can be perfect friends. Kumo Jr. fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Aug 9, 2012 |
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Aug 8, 2012 23:44
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attackmole posted:I'm an ignorant first world brat, but I like watching kickboxing (and other fight sports) because it's cool and fun and I just kinda sit there and twiddle my thumbs bored if they do that two step around the ring and flail their hands thing. I get that it's a traditional Thai thing, but I have no interest in it and I'm pretty sure you can respect your opponents without doing a ritualistic dance before every fight. Well I'm sure Thai dudes watching baseball feel the same way about the national anthem? "Jesus why do these fucks have to all stand up and sing some stupid song for five minutes can't they find some other way?" Not ragging on you but I mean the sport IS what it is and Wai Khru/Ram Muay are part of it so whatever I guess I can deal with it. E: TheStampede posted:The music does hurt my head worse then a good kick to the brain case , so I'll give you that one. Jesus this T.S. Smelliot fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Aug 9, 2012 |
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Aug 9, 2012 00:23
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Let's say you had some friends, and a space, and wanted to learn BJJ. No instructor, just some willing people and some time. How would you start? Signing up for a class isn't an option right now.
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Aug 9, 2012 02:17
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Pagan posted:Let's say you had some friends, and a space, and wanted to learn BJJ. No instructor, just some willing people and some time. How would you start? Signing up for a class isn't an option right now. Buy a reputable book or video series. Drill. I like Marcelo and Eddie Bravo, but Ribeiro gets a lot of positive reviews to.
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Aug 9, 2012 03:06
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Pagan posted:Let's say you had some friends, and a space, and wanted to learn BJJ. No instructor, just some willing people and some time. How would you start? Signing up for a class isn't an option right now. Conditioning so that you're physically fit and ready when you find a teacher.
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Aug 9, 2012 04:04
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Pagan posted:Let's say you had some friends, and a space, and wanted to learn BJJ. No instructor, just some willing people and some time. How would you start? Signing up for a class isn't an option right now. Awesome health insurance.
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Aug 9, 2012 04:14
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Pagan posted:Let's say you had some friends, and a space, and wanted to learn BJJ. No instructor, just some willing people and some time. How would you start? Signing up for a class isn't an option right now. Oh God.
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Aug 9, 2012 05:10
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Israfel posted:Well I'm sure Thai dudes watching baseball feel the same way about the national anthem? "Jesus why do these fucks have to all stand up and sing some stupid song for five minutes can't they find some other way?" That's a good way of putting it. I don't hate it or anything, I just have no personal connection to it. Some purists will probably hate me for this, but I usually think of Muay Thai as synonymous with kickboxing, so going from watching K-1/Euro/Japanese leagues without pre-fight rituals to watching Thai stuff is sometimes a little jarring in terms of presentation because I think of them as the same sport.
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Aug 9, 2012 06:39
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attackmole posted:Some purists will probably hate me for this, but I usually think of Muay Thai as synonymous with kickboxing, so going from watching K-1/Euro/Japanese leagues without pre-fight rituals to watching Thai stuff is sometimes a little jarring in terms of presentation because I think of them as the same sport. I hate you. Muay Thai is very different from kickboxing. It's like having a deck of cards. You have all the same cards, but each game has different rules. Poker is very different from blackjack edit: gonna pre-emptively draw out major differences between the two so you can have an idea. K-1 is 3-5 x 3 minute rounds, while MT is usually always 5 x 3 minute rounds. K-1 boxers try to finish in 3 rounds, because the next two rounds are sort of like 'overtime' rounds in case judges need more time to decide. So the more aggressive fighter is usually rewarded. MT rewards the patient, strategic fighter. Both fighters know they have to last 5 rounds unless a KO or TKO is called, so they have to adjust and prepare accordingly K-1 does not allow elbow strikes, holding and hitting, backspin strikes to certain areas, or clinching. This right here is a huge difference. MT fights are also judged on style and technique. Meaning that you could be a giant puss, and all your hits are super soft, but if you have godlike endurance and can stay clean all through the fight you have a better chance of winning. K-1 allows for any style from any discipline, hence tae kwan do fighters and pure boxers are frequently seen. Guilty fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Aug 9, 2012 |
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Aug 9, 2012 08:37
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Thanks for the info. I'm never was a diehard enough fan of either to keep track of the details of the rulesets other than punch/kick the other guy till they fall over. Funny how I've been training for 8 months or so but rules really haven't come up that much. Don't really need to worry about them for most basic drills. Like hell you see TKD guys much in K-1 though.
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Aug 9, 2012 09:08
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUy0p_j1wtE This is a beautiful example of k-1 vs. muay thai. Both fighters are more pure muay thai than anything else, but Saksongkram has a clear strategy and style adapted for k-1 ruleset while Ponchai has styled for trad Muay Thai. Try to analyze each fighter and see why. While Saksongkram appears to be on equal footing, perhaps even leading throughout the fight, it is Ponchai's adherence to traditional Muay Thai basics and rules which wins the day for him. Saksongkram basically gives up in the 5th round. edit: dunno if the video tells you, but Saksongkram is red, while Ponchai is blue edit2: everyone should watch this fight anyways because it is non-stop action from round 2 onwards. It is a loving war zone in there. Guilty fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Aug 9, 2012 |
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Aug 9, 2012 09:18
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Pagan posted:Let's say you had some friends, and a space, and wanted to learn BJJ. No instructor, just some willing people and some time. How would you start? Signing up for a class isn't an option right now. By finding an instructor. Or finding a "Lifting for Wrestling" program or something along those lines and doing that until you find an instructor.
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Aug 9, 2012 11:21
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Pagan posted:Let's say you had some friends, and a space, and wanted to learn BJJ. No instructor, just some willing people and some time. How would you start? Signing up for a class isn't an option right now. I started BJJ a little over three months ago. From my very limited experience, I don't think you'll be getting anywhere without a competent instructor. You're also pretty likely to hurt yourself. I'd watched a fair few instructional videos before my first class, and watched my brother and my friend sparring (they've been training nearly 2 years and just over 6 months respectively). I listened to them explain things as they did them. I thought I had an idea of the basics and a few ideas about what to do. I was dead loving wrong. I had no idea what I was doing at my first class. Without an instructor, I would have been completely lost, and would have either been injured or frustrated into quitting after a week or two.
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Aug 9, 2012 12:39
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Muay Thai and K-1 aren't as comparable as most people think for 2 major reasons imo: - MT is a gambler's sport, K-1 is a spectator sport. - K-1 doesn't allow you to catch kicks and doesn't score kicks that are blocked by your arms. This leads to MT being a game of kicking & catching, while K-1 fights are usually fought in flurries. The clinching game isn't that big of a factor because MT refs break them up after about 3 seconds anyway unless you're talking about the stupid 1 knee rule K-1 implemented in 2009(?). Glory went back to 3 seconds, which is ideal imo. Same with elbows being forbidden in K-1, in reality MT fighters don't throw a lot of elbows out of respect for each other.
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Aug 9, 2012 12:46
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My eye could take sweat pouring into it yesterday and wasn't any more inflamed in the morning, better if anything. Going boxing with a friend in one hour, not planning to get punched in the face yet but still. This is of no interest to you guys (but who else could I tell, my workmates would not understand  ): after 5 days off I'm actually having cold chills just out of the joy and excitement outta simply knowing I get to go to a honest-to-god boxing lesson in a second. HOORAY!
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Aug 9, 2012 13:42
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Guilty posted:It's a totally different world. There's a lot of auditory clues you have to pay attention to which are vital to playing well. And it's actually the one martial art where learning the language is almost mandatory, because a lot of instructions and critiques come from listening to the music. Certain musical clues will key you in on when to start playing, when to stop, when to attack, defend, dodge, counter, you can even request players do fancy backflips and insult bad playing or jackasses. One of my favorites is when someone fucks up and there's a song about a big banana tree falling down in the forest because he thinks he's hot poo poo and get the gently caress out you suck. I understand this now, after watching a class, and I don't want to sound too mean towards capoeira because it's loving cool. But it is not for me. It is strange and alien and there are sounds and I don't understand why they don't just try to kill each other with chokes because that's the only thing I understand. I would also like to put forward "If you don't like singing, you picked the wrong sport!" as a possible future thread title. Tonight I dropped in at a random BJJ gym while I was on a holiday in a strange city and it was pretty cool.
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Aug 9, 2012 14:46
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That's one of my favorite thing about BJJ. Because of the nature of the sport, you can pretty much drop in anywhere and get a few good rolls in. I'm not so sure people would be as eager to let you drop into a boxing/karate/whatever gym and just let you punch people in the face right off the bat.
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Aug 9, 2012 17:07
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Pagan posted:Let's say you had some friends, and a space, and wanted to learn BJJ. No instructor, just some willing people and some time. How would you start? Signing up for a class isn't an option right now. Covered in the OP.
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Aug 9, 2012 18:13
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So, pretty minor question: I do several striking and grappling arts regularly, and I need to get a mouthguard. What do I need to know before I buy? Is it important to get a double mouthguard if I'm expecting to get punched in the face regularly, or is it only the top teeth I should worry about? What brands/styles are good? I'll only be wearing it for short periods during sparring, so I'm not too concerned with comfort as long as it keeps my teeth from getting knocked out.
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Aug 9, 2012 20:54
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You probably don't need a double, get a single since you're just wearing it for short periods. Easier to slip in and out, and easier to breath also. In fact, almost never get a double. Breath easy.
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Aug 9, 2012 21:09
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Guilty posted:In fact, almost never get a double. Breath easy. Agreed. A double is just too restrictive to your breathing.
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Aug 9, 2012 22:11
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Androc posted:So, pretty minor question: I do several striking and grappling arts regularly, and I need to get a mouthguard. What do I need to know before I buy? Is it important to get a double mouthguard if I'm expecting to get punched in the face regularly, or is it only the top teeth I should worry about? What brands/styles are good? I'll only be wearing it for short periods during sparring, so I'm not too concerned with comfort as long as it keeps my teeth from getting knocked out. some people do fine with a cheapo generic, others find them really uncomfortable but get along fine with a shock dr. Others go to the dentist for custom mouth guards because nothing else works or they have braces or other dental work to accomodate. There really isn't much benefit beside comfort when you get the more expensive mouthguards, so if you can use a 5$ one comfortably, thats all you need.
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Aug 9, 2012 22:20
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:I understand this now, after watching a class, and I don't want to sound too mean towards capoeira because it's loving cool. But it is not for me. It is strange and alien and there are sounds and I don't understand why they don't just try to kill each other with chokes because that's the only thing I understand. I would also like to put forward "If you don't like singing, you picked the wrong sport!" as a possible future thread title. If you have trouble 'getting it' (and it's way harder to explain than to learn doing), it might help to think of capoeira like this. It's about one move, one finishing move that defeats your opponent definitively, in the same way that BJJ is about submissions. A capoeirista won't start an all-out aggressive onslaught on his opponent in the roda the same way a BJJ practitioner won't start trying to submit from anywhere. It's about getting yourself in a position in which the finishing move takes the least amount of effort. Just like BJJ. Finishing moves in capoeira can be definite kicks (heel to the temple, sole to the stomach, shin to the ribs, etc) or a takedown/sweep. BJJ has grip fighting, guard sweeps, positional control and an entire spectrum of techniques just to achieve a proper position from which a submission is almost inevitable. To that exact same purpose, capoeira has dodges, spins, flourishes and taunts. A big, high, spinning kick in capoeira is not about connecting or harming, it's about calling your opponent to you the same way you might leave an arm in BJJ expecting the opponent to grab it so you can do your planned counterattack. The big difference is, while in BJJ you are encouraged to take less risks for efficiency matters more than style, capoeira does the opposite. It's like if in BJJ the cooler the submission you did, the more points you got. Cross-collar choke? Boring. Twisting kesa-gatame feint into a flying crucifix*? Now we're talking. Capoeira has no points or scoring or competitions, but what you are aiming for is the most skilful finishing move you can muster. Now, on most games you aren't supposed to connect with that finishing move. You're supposed to show that you could have, if you wanted to. And then move on with your life. In some games, you can connect them. In others, style matters less than efficacy. How do you know? The music tells you. I hope this clears things up a little. I understand how it might be hard to understand from outside, but I really recommend you try a class for yourself. In all my five years of capoeira I've never met anyone who thought it was 'for them'. There's nothing instinctive about it, but it's really, really fun. * I don't think these exist.
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Aug 9, 2012 22:55
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