|
The Slip posted:So I have a question. Was there any actual motivation for most of the things he did, specifically with him forcing the girl to strip, other than "Oh, the other guy did it so I should too?" And what, exactly, was the motivation for the original one then? Or is there some subtle detail I'm missing? Because that lack of motivation honestly broke the movie for me, and I couldn't get any enjoyment out of it because of that. That's like the whole point of the movie The motivation for him doing basically anything was either (At the start) to kill himself and replace the 'original' or (later) to undo all of his dumbass stuff early one. The other reading is basically the dude is the first intelligent timetravel protagonist who realizes if he doesnt set everything up, there will be two of him running around and stuff will get messed up
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2012 03:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 06:59 |
|
|
The Slip posted:So I have a question. Was there any actual motivation for most of the things he did, specifically with him forcing the girl to strip, other than "Oh, the other guy did it so I should too?" And what, exactly, was the motivation for the original one then? Or is there some subtle detail I'm missing? Because that lack of motivation honestly broke the movie for me, and I couldn't get any enjoyment out of it because of that. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. When Hector 2 comes out of the machine, he's told to make sure that Hector 1 gets up to the machine exactly as before so as not to create a paradox. Luckily, he already knows what will make Hector 1 get up to the machine, so the best option is to make sure that those things happen. He forces the girl to strip, a) because that's what makes Hector 1 walk down towards the forest to investigate in the first place, and b) because he's terrified that if things don't go exactly the same as before, universe-ending poo poo might happen. See how frantic he is when he's holding her hostage, he's absolutely bricking it. As for why those specific things happen? There's no way you could ever find out. Physically, that time loop is closed and forever. You would never be able to un-pick it and find out how it formed. The weird poo poo that happens is just the equilibrium of events that results in a stable, non-paradoxical time loop. Timecrimes is one of my favourite movies 
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2012 03:12
|
|
|
Elendil004 posted:What is it called when one character does a thing, and another character thinks the first one did something different, and due to that mixup there is comedy? I know Fraiser and Modern Family use it all the time. Dramatic irony.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2012 03:16
|
|
|
scary ghost dog posted:Dramatic irony. I thought there was another term for it, like for that specific gag.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2012 03:34
|
|
|
Elendil004 posted:I thought there was another term for it, like for that specific gag. You might be thinking of the term "comedy of errors."
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2012 03:44
|
|
|
Leovinus posted:It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. When Hector 2 comes out of the machine, he's told to make sure that Hector 1 gets up to the machine exactly as before so as not to create a paradox. Luckily, he already knows what will make Hector 1 get up to the machine, so the best option is to make sure that those things happen. He forces the girl to strip, a) because that's what makes Hector 1 walk down towards the forest to investigate in the first place, and b) because he's terrified that if things don't go exactly the same as before, universe-ending poo poo might happen. See how frantic he is when he's holding her hostage, he's absolutely bricking it. Hm. It's been two years since I've seen it, so I may have to go back and give it another go. I guess I understand why Hector 2 is repeating events out of fear, but I never understood why the original Hector would force a girl to strip in the first place. It seemed out of character for him, and the idea that it simply can't be explained, even if the reasonable explanation is that there's another loop we'll never know about, has always bugged me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2012 03:47
|
|
|
The Slip posted:Hm. It's been two years since I've seen it, so I may have to go back and give it another go. I guess I understand why Hector 2 is repeating events out of fear, but I never understood why the original Hector would force a girl to strip in the first place. Yeah, it's a mindfuck. That's what I love about the movie - trying to comprehend exactly why things are happening means you have to switch your point of reference and think about it in ways you're not wired to. Like, in this case, you're sort of thinking of Hector 2 and the original masked man Hector 1 sees as different entities, like Hector 2 is just copying the things the original guy was doing. But there is no "original guy", it's always Hector 2, the same person. It fucks with your sense of causality because cause and effect become the exact same thing, so the only solution it's possible to come to is "Hector 2 does things because Hector 2 does them". If it bugs you, it's because it's supposed to - it's an exploration of the more incomprehensible metaphysics of time travel. It's not meant to have a satisfying answer. You can't even really say that an "original loop" exists in any meaningful sense. It always has been and always will be exactly as it happens in the movie. I always loved the similar parts in Timesplitters Future Perfect where you'd run into your future self, who'd give you a key to get to the next area. You'd use it, and later in the level you'd give the item to your past self so he could get to the next area. The question of "where did the key come from?" isn't meant to be answered, it's meant to pick at your brain. Edit: Ah, here's what I was looking for. The situation we're talking about is the bootstrap paradox. Information exists in the timeloop without having ever been created. Leovinus has a new favorite as of 04:14 on Aug 14, 2012 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2012 04:07
|
|
|
Elendil004 posted:I thought there was another term for it, like for that specific gag. I've just heard it called a farce, but after reading the wiki that doesn't sound right at all.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2012 04:43
|
|
|
Decrepus posted:I've just heard it called a farce, but after reading the wiki that doesn't sound right at all. Farce is correct, I think.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2012 08:11
|
|
|
I know The Shining has been discussed quite a bit already, but I remember arguing with buddies in the early 90's about a scene in the beginning of the movie that was later (obviously) confirmed as a "goof" by imdb. The helicopter's shadow can be seen in the bottom right hand corner, during the opening sequence. (This goof only appears in the un-matted print.) Being a young stoner with a wild imagination, I always tried to convince my buddies it was supposed to represent some kind of over watch. As though the owner of the Overlook knows what goes on there, and is always watching. Invader Mat has a new favorite as of 07:48 on Aug 16, 2012 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2012 07:44
|
|
|
The very little pause Ed Harris gives in The Truman Show when he's answering Truman's question "Who are you?". "I am the Creator. Of a television show."
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2012 01:48
|
|
|
Supreme Allah posted:The very little pause Ed Harris gives in The Truman Show when he's answering Truman's question "Who are you?". His name was Christoph. Christoph is God.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2012 12:17
|
|
|
Christoph posted:His name was Christoph. Christoph is God. And Truman is the only True Man on that island. Everyone else is pretending.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2012 16:23
|
|
|
The Heckler posted:The Total Recall commentary is just as good. Arnie is drunk yet again: Haha, this is great. He just narrates each scene without adding anything. "Und here I am vurking at my job as a construction vurker." "Now here is ze gross scene vere I remove ze bug from my nose und it is really gross, it is a great scene."
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2012 17:14
|
|
|
Polaron posted:And Truman is the only True Man on that island. Everyone else is pretending. And "cue the sun" is the movie version of "light there be light." It's one of my favorite movies, there are lots of great little details in there. All the people in Truman's life are named after actors: Marlon, Meryl, Lauren, Angela. Ditto for the street names -- Lancaster Square and things like that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2012 20:05
|
|
|
In the first Scream movie the principal is alone in his office at one point and hears something in the hallway. He opens the door and in the hallway there's a janitor moping the floors wearing a wide striped green and red knitted sweater and a fedora, The principal then say something like "Oh, it's just you Fred!". This being of course a reference to Freddy from nightmare on elm street who wore the same outfit and worked as a janitor until he got killed.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2012 22:51
|
|
|
Not just that, but it was Wes Craven who directed both Scream and the first Nightmare on Elm Street. There's also a line in Scream about how the sequels to Nightmare sucked, which most of them did (part 3 was cool). Reference: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117571/fullcredits#cast
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2012 23:12
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:Not just that, but it was Wes Craven who directed both Scream and the first Nightmare on Elm Street. There's also a line in Scream about how the sequels to Nightmare sucked, which most of them did (part 3 was cool). Also there was a scream in Nightmare on elmstreet
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2012 23:15
|
|
|
OctaviusBeaver posted:Haha, this is great. He just narrates each scene without adding anything. "Und here I am vurking at my job as a construction vurker." "Now here is ze gross scene vere I remove ze bug from my nose und it is really gross, it is a great scene." In the commentary for the film Friday Night Lights, the author of the book is basically doing this for the first quarter of the movie, and Peter Berg (the director) chimes in with 'Uh, I think anybody who's listening to this has already seen the film'. I appreciated it. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2012 00:08
|
|
|
bat duck posted:In the first Scream movie the principal is alone in his office at one point and hears something in the hallway. He opens the door and in the hallway there's a janitor moping the floors wearing a wide striped green and red knitted sweater and a fedora, The principal then say something like "Oh, it's just you Fred!". This being of course a reference to Freddy from nightmare on elm street who wore the same outfit and worked as a janitor until he got killed. As I recall, "Fred" was played by Robert Englund, the original Freddy Kruger.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2012 19:13
|
|
|
Look a few posts up chief.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2012 19:40
|
|
|
Alaemon posted:And "cue the sun" is the movie version of "light there be light." I clearly need to go back and watch this movie again. All of this went over my head.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2012 21:51
|
|
|
In The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly there's a scene where they are walking through a forest and get ambushed by some soldiers. The camera then pans over to reveal a massive fortification teeming with soldiers. It would seem like something they would have noticed long before getting ambushed, but Sergio Leone filmed on the principle that things didn't exist until they were shown on camera. Going off topic a bit, in the first season and part of the second season of Scrubs the Janitor is never shown interacting with any other main character other than JD. They had originally planned to reveal in the series finale that the Janitor was just a figment of JD's imagination, but dropped the idea once the show got renewed for a third season. Edit: Just remembered another great detail from The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly and probably many of Sergio Leone's other films. All voices are dubbed over, so during filming some actors spoke Spanish and others spoke English. He would even change the lines between filming and voice recording to purposely keep the lips from matching the words. Mu Cow has a new favorite as of 17:00 on Aug 22, 2012 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2012 16:53
|
|
|
Mu Cow posted:Going off topic a bit, in the first season and part of the second season of Scrubs the Janitor is never shown interacting with any other main character other than JD. They had originally planned to reveal in the series finale that the Janitor was just a figment of JD's imagination, but dropped the idea once the show got renewed for a third season. Not entirely true. They did plan for him to be a figment of JD's imagination, but he starts interacting with other people about halfway into the first season.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2012 16:58
|
|
|
More Bladerunner. There is so much of this I should make a masive post. In the directors cut, the final cut, the artificial owls eyes reflect light and so do the eyes of the replicants. In the final cut Deckord is obviously meant to be a replicant but there is a bunch of other little things that also support the idea. Like, If you watch him closely you'll notice he drinks about ten times more than anyone else.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2012 05:07
|
|
|
A History of Violence: The scene where Ed Harris' character comes into the diner and has a very innocuous conversation with Tom Stall, and then very calmly and deliberately says "Joey." The very brief panic-stricken glance Stall throws him is perfect.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2012 07:25
|
|
Two Finger posted:A History of Violence: Could you explain this for people who haven't seen the movie?
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2012 07:56
|
|
|
Sulla-Marius 88 posted:Could you explain this for people who haven't seen the movie? Here's a clip of the scene on youtube. Specifically happens about one minute in.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2012 08:00
|
|
|
Sulla-Marius 88 posted:Could you explain this for people who haven't seen the movie? It's kind of hard without giving away a big part of the movie, but suffice it to say that he never expected to see Ed Harris' character again, and being called Joey shook him up big time. It really, really shows in that very, very brief glance he gives.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2012 10:52
|
|
|
The Janitor actually interacts with Elliott once while he was still meant to be a figment of JD's imagination on Scrubs.
Aphrodite has a new favorite as of 12:28 on Aug 23, 2012 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2012 12:25
|
|
|
tobu posted:More Bladerunner. There is so much of this I should make a masive post. You could do a whole thread on Bladerunner. I think at one point there was one in CD. Bladerunner is the best movie 
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2012 13:38
|
|
|
Please do more Bladerunner! I love that film! Or if anyone has the link I'd love to read it
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2012 15:40
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:The Janitor actually interacts with Elliott once while he was still meant to be a figment of JD's imagination on Scrubs.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2012 15:48
|
|
|
FrancisYorkPatty posted:Part of the reason they ditched the idea, which is great because the janitor got a lot of actual development with Dr. Cox. He even gets his own episodes occasionally. The Brain Trust is the best thing to come out of the later seasons. (I mean the good Brain Trust with Ted and The Todd, not the original with Crazy-Eyes Margo and Troy...not that Troy didn't have his moments either.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2012 19:49
|
|
|
tobu posted:[...]Bladerunner[...]  on ya, but that's in every version of the movie. It's not a post-production effect either, it was done on set using a beam splitter (basically a series of mirrors that reflect light back into the camera). The reason why Deckard has this at one point is because Harrison Ford happened to walk into where the light was being reflected (its a scene between him and Sean Young right after she's killed Leon)."Blade Runner" still has a mind-boggling amount of detail to it, though. Ridley Scott actually got someone to design futuristic magazines that could be in prop newstands.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2012 22:37
|
|
|
I don't want to start a derail but is the Bluray version of Bladerunner any good? I've put off buying a larger full HD TV for some time now. Seeing Bladerunner in HD might just push me over the edge.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2012 00:15
|
|
|
Shai-Hulud posted:I don't want to start a derail but is the Bluray version of Bladerunner any good? I've put off buying a larger full HD TV for some time now. Seeing Bladerunner in HD might just push me over the edge. Yes! I sat mesmerized just by the scene where Gaff and Deckard land on top of the police station building.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2012 00:30
|
|
|
Shai-Hulud posted:I don't want to start a derail but is the Bluray version of Bladerunner any good? I've put off buying a larger full HD TV for some time now. Seeing Bladerunner in HD might just push me over the edge.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2012 03:13
|
|
|
I love Blade Runner and there's a great book, Future Noir, that details the making of it. For subtle moments, I love that Chu has a bar code tattoo on his face. Also, at one point Tyrell was meant to be a Replicant and the real Tyrell was kept in suspended cryogenic freezing, I guess until he could find a cure for an ailment, Batty then killed the real Tyrell and Sebastian in anger
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2012 03:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 06:59 |
|
|
Robert Denby posted:It certainly is! There's a new Blu-Ray coming this fall that's not really worth getting, but if you can find it, get the 5-disc version that came out in 2007 that contains five versions of the film (1982 theatrical and European cuts, the 1992 director's cut, the 2007 'Final Cut', and the workprint) plus a great four-hour documentary. Seriously, just get the Final Cut, though. Blade Runner is a slow-burn movie as it is. No matter how much you like it, you're not going to gain some massive new insight into it by watching five different versions of it, and the Final Cut is the best version. Or, at the very least, it's the only one where Ridley Scott had complete artistic control. Leovinus has a new favorite as of 03:38 on Aug 24, 2012 |
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2012 03:35
|
|