Ras Het posted:

SombreroAgnew posted:

Well, not wholly the artists' fault.

quote:

The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

From Color of the Cross

Broken Machine posted:

It bugs me when artists depict the crucifixion with the nails going through his hands. People were crucified with the nail in between the radius and the ulna of the forearm. A nail through the hand like that would just rip out.

Wikipedia posted:

Nail placement

In popular depictions of the crucifixion of Jesus (possibly because in translations of John 20:25 the wounds are described as being "in his hands"), Jesus is shown with nails in his hands. But in Greek the word "χείρ", usually translated as "hand", referred to arm and hand together,[28] and to denote the hand as distinct from the arm some other word was added, as "ἄκρην οὔτασε χεῖρα" (he wounded the end of the χείρ, i.e., he wounded her hand).[29]

A possibility that does not require tying is that the nails were inserted just above the wrist, between the two bones of the forearm (the radius and the ulna).[30]

An experiment that was the subject of a documentary on the National Geographic Channel's Quest For Truth: The Crucifixion,[31] showed that a person can be suspended by the palm of the hand. Nailing the feet to the side of the cross relieves strain on the wrists by placing most of the weight on the lower body.

Another possibility, suggested by Frederick Zugibe, is that the nails may have been driven in at an angle, entering in the palm in the crease that delineates the bulky region at the base of the thumb, and exiting in the wrist, passing through the carpal tunnel.

A foot-rest (suppedaneum) attached to the cross, perhaps for the purpose of taking the person's weight off the wrists, is sometimes included in representations of the crucifixion of Jesus, but is not discussed in ancient sources. Some scholars interpret the Alexamenos graffito, the earliest surviving depiction of the Crucifixion, as including such a foot-rest.[32] Ancient sources also mention the sedile, a small seat attached to the front of the cross, about halfway down,[33] which could have served a similar purpose. A short upright spike or cornu might also be attached to the sedile, forcing the victim to rest his or her perineum on the point of the device, or allow it to insert into the anus or vagina.[18] These devices were not an attempt to relieve suffering, but would prolong the process of death. The cornu would also add considerably to the pain and humiliation of crucifixion.

Armyman25 posted:

I guess that makes it ok then.

Ethan_Alan posted:

As such, HE is more likely the bad guy in this scenario and a using a photo like that to garner sympathy from some rear end in a top hat who probably had a thumb drive full of war porn is ridiculous at best and fascist at worst.

Ethan_Alan posted:

No, the fact that he enlisted makes it okay. Those pictures imply that the kid's brother was killed by some evil, monstrous person which is almost certainly not the case. In fact, it's more likely that the dead servicemen either participated, witnessed, or failed to report a war crime. As such, HE is more likely the bad guy in this scenario and a using a photo like that to garner sympathy from some rear end in a top hat who probably had a thumb drive full of war porn is ridiculous at best and fascist at worst.

Sir John Falstaff posted:

Anyway, pictures:





http://www.npr.org/2012/08/16/15894...mpaign=20120816

Ethan_Alan posted:

No, the fact that he enlisted makes it okay. Those pictures imply that the kid's brother was killed by some evil, monstrous person which is almost certainly not the case. In fact, it's more likely that the dead servicemen either participated, witnessed, or failed to report a war crime. As such, HE is more likely the bad guy in this scenario and a using a photo like that to garner sympathy from some rear end in a top hat who probably had a thumb drive full of war porn is ridiculous at best and fascist at worst.

Folderol posted:

Mary McHugh at the grave of her fianc,0020who was killed in the Iraq war.

Ethan_Allen posted:

No, the fact that he enlisted makes it okay. Those pictures imply that the kid's brother was killed by some evil, monstrous person which is almost certainly not the case. In fact, it's more likely that the dead servicemen either participated, witnessed, or failed to report a war crime. As such, HE is more likely the bad guy in this scenario and a using a photo like that to garner sympathy from some rear end in a top hat who probably had a thumb drive full of war porn is ridiculous at best and fascist at worst.

Ethan_Alan posted:

Ethan_Alan posted:

No, the fact that he enlisted makes it okay. Those pictures imply that the kid's brother was killed by some evil, monstrous person which is almost certainly not the case. In fact, it's more likely that the dead servicemen either participated, witnessed, or failed to report a war crime. As such, HE is more likely the bad guy in this scenario and a using a photo like that to garner sympathy from some rear end in a top hat who probably had a thumb drive full of war porn is ridiculous at best and fascist at worst.

Crasscrab posted:

Hate the military, not the men in it. Many join because they've been fed bullshit their entire lives and don't know any different, because that's just the way the system works. They get in, experience the reality of life in a country where you're not wanted, and often end up hating the wrong people.

your lovely eek posted:

While I definitely don't like the inevitable creakiness that comes with getting older, I'm thankful that, as years have passed, I've stopped seeing things in as black and white of terms as these. It's far easier to take the anonymous death of someone you've never met and turn it into an moralizing fable: you've got the underpinnings of it already with the inference of war porn and this guy's enlistment equating to evidence of his being a murderous, wanton sociopath. He's an rear end in a top hat, and we're fascists for thinking otherwise.

When I was in Afghanistan, one of my good friends got killed by a roadside bomb. Like me, he had almost immediately figured out that the war was a for-profit, train-wreck debacle, but that didn't make the deployment any shorter. He went out of his way to be kind to civilians, particularly old people and kids, and one of the things he struggled with the most was trying to keep his soldiers from descending into a pattern of unthinking hate towards the Afghans. In a war where civilians and combatants look the exact same (and in which we're constantly on the defensive), it's hard. But he wouldn't tolerate overt cruelty, and as far as I know, they never committed any war crimes.

The insurgents targeted any vehicle or person who might even appear to be aiding US or Afghan government forces, and there were some pretty grisly instances where they pulled Afghan drivers out of their trucks at random, poured gasoline on them and set them on fire. So, during big logistical convoys, we spent a lot of time safeguarding the trucks and trying to de-mine the roads. One of the mines detonated and damaged an Afghan truck, and my friend ran down to check on the drivers. After ensuring they were alright, he ran back to his truck and in the process stepped on an IED that blew him apart. It had been placed there with the intention of targeting any first responders on the scene. I helped recover his body and send it back to the US.

We later found out that, in his will, he directed that his Servicemember's General Life Insurance be donated to various youth charities in his home state. He wanted at least some people to be able to go to college without having to join the Army, the way he did. He wasn't always a caring person -- sometimes he could be too much of a smartass to the people he actually cared about -- and I don't want this to sound like a hagiography. But, he died trying to help people he could have ignored, and when I think about him or when I go to his grave in Washington, I just have to hope that whatever the gently caress I'm doing with my life is worthy of the time I've unfairly got that he doesn't.

So, I don't know if, for having enlisted, he's considered an rear end in a top hat in your worldview. The only war porn I know of him having on his thumb drive was pictures like this:



And maybe I'm a fascist for the way that I miss him, or for how I empathize with his parents, who lost their only son to a war they don't support, either. I'm just sad that it's gone on so long, that it's a permanent fixture in our politics whose worth no one seems willing to debate anymore.



But gently caress it, man. Keep saying what you want. If things in life are really as black and white as you say, you definitely aren't reading this long, and the world is a lot more terrifying and sad a place than I want to accept.

your lovely eek posted:

A beautiful eulogy to 1LT Brian Bradshaw.

Martello posted:

Wow, dude, this is amazing. I went to Infantry Officer Basic Course with Brian and I haven't thought about him in a long time. Thanks for the reminder and the words in your post.

Why did he only get an ARCOM with V? He should have gotten a Bronze Star with V. That makes me pretty upset.

c0ldfuse posted:

Ethan_Alan posted:

Those pictures imply that the kid's brother was killed by some evil, monstrous person which is almost certainly not the case.

your lovely eek posted:

troopsucking tripe

your lovely eek posted:

But gently caress it, man. Keep saying what you want. If things in life are really as black and white as you say, you definitely aren't reading this long, and the world is a lot more terrifying and sad a place than I want to accept.

Nameless Dread posted:

Yeah, if you think everyone in the military is scum and you can't possibly understand anything about them

FRINGE posted:

These are excellent points and I completely agree.

For what its worth - when people rage against the machine that is creating the damaging, foul-spirited circumstances that have put you and your cohort in these miserable, dangerous situations for reasons that amount to ideology at best, and greed at worst - at least be glad that they are raging against those things. As much as they are wrong to cast aspersions on each individual involved, at the least they serve you by trying to highlight the wrongs of the needless situation that you are subjected to, as well as its cheerleaders. The ones that applaud and clap along the way and claim that your suffering is "worth it" because TheMarket/'god'/MURRKA said so are the ones to hold in lowest regard.

Goatman Sacks posted:

He guess what if he had just decided to no longer be a part of the war effort instead of just followin' orders, he'd be in jail but he'd still be alive, and he'd have actually redeemed his poor life choices.

Instead he's dead.

Captain Scandinaiva posted:

I remember someone posted a study back in the LF days that showed most US army men were not from poor families and trying to get into collage. Rather they were from middle class homes and motivated by political reasons (change the world for the better, serve your country, etc.). Anyone know more of this? Or the situation in other countries?

Captain Scandinaiva posted:

I remember someone posted a study back in the LF days that showed most US army men were not from poor families and trying to get into collage. Rather they were from middle class homes and motivated by political reasons (change the world for the better, serve your country, etc.). Anyone know more of this? Or the situation in other countries?

quote:

A senior is more likely to enlist:
The higher the unemployment rate in his county
If he plans to marry within the next five years
The higher his number of siblings

A senior is less likely to enlist:
The more months he's been unemployed
If he has a low wage
If he is Hispanic
The higher his AFQT score
The more educated his mother
The higher his family income

A graduate is more likely to enlist:
The more hours he works per week
If he is currently unemployed]
The more hours he worked per week on his previous job
If he has been unemployed for a year
If he has ever been married

A graduate is less likely to enlist:
The higher his family income
If he lives at home
The more months he has been unemployed
The greater the "recruiter density" in his area
If he has children

pg 48 posted:

Among high aptitude seniors, applicants from poorer families, who had not worked recently, or who were no longer in the civilian labor force were more likely to enlist.
...
Graduates out of the labor force were more likely to enlist than graduates who were working or looking for civilian jobs, and applicants with worse perceived earning opportunities or who were less satisfied with their recent employment also were more likely to enlist."

McDowell posted:

Russia 1900

LP97S posted:

Cool commentary, but besides the point that ad and another one Pamela Gellar's turds have been rightfully vandalized.



And her latest turd that got vandalized.





She's blaming the evil CAIR-Islamofacsists for this dammning evidence of ordering their minions to attack:



But fear not, according to Gellar's blog "Atlas Shrugs", which was referenced multiple times as a reliable source in Anders Breivik meandering manifesto he released the same day of the massacres he's accused of, the group that made those ads is going to the DOJ and the FBI because it wants to report the vandalism as a hate crime .

Goatman Sacks posted:

He guess what if he had just decided to no longer be a part of the war effort instead of just followin' orders, he'd be in jail but he'd still be alive, and he'd have actually redeemed his poor life choices.

Instead he's dead.

Armyman25 posted:

Really poor people have a harder time getting in because they are more likely to have a criminal record and are less likely to have the education necessary to enlist. That is they can't pass the ASVAB and are less likely to have a diploma or GED.