Roman/ancient history: Checkmate, Atenists

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Roman/ancient history: Checkmate, Atenists

Bagheera: Oct 30, 2003

Charlie Mopps posted:

Studying classics is actually not that helpful if you are looking for guidance for the here and now. You are mostly studying the elite of the elite, filtered through 2000 years of civilizations trying to compare themselves to their idea of what Rome was (i.e. mostly Rome as an example of what the people wanted themselves to be).

We should quote this at the start of every history thread anybody makes. It should be the first lesson of any history class. The further back in time you go, the less a group's culture relates to your own.

# ? Aug 20, 2012 22:44

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Octy: Apr 1, 2010

Quick question: How do you pronounce Pompey? I thought it was pronounced 'Pom-pee' (at least that's how my lecturers say it), but I was watching an episode of Rome today for the first time in years and they were all pronouncing it like 'Pompeii'.

# ? Aug 21, 2012 01:52

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Octy posted:

Quick question: How do you pronounce Pompey? I thought it was pronounced 'Pom-pee' (at least that's how my lecturers say it), but I was watching an episode of Rome today for the first time in years and they were all pronouncing it like 'Pompeii'.

Isn't Pompey just a corrupt form of Pompeius? Or do you mean the city?

# ? Aug 21, 2012 01:57

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

Bagheera posted:

We should quote this at the start of every history thread anybody makes. It should be the first lesson of any history class. The further back in time you go, the less a group's culture relates to your own.

Yeah. I should say that my last post was emphasizing the negative aspects of wealthy Roman behavior since that was also Amused to Death's focus with respect to modern times. It is equally valid to say that upper-class Romans were driven by honor and glory rather than vanity and desire for power; the Romans almost always spin it this way, to the point that my view has perhaps become excessively cynical in response. However, I do think that we can compare the behavior of the elite in ancient and modern times a little more legitimately than almost any other facet of culture since that is something we have way, way more information about than nearly anything else.

It is important to realize that money was not really a "score card" for the Romans in the same way it is today. It was a means to an end - political power and glory/fulfillment of vanity. In a lot of ways, money and political power have exchanged roles culturally; now money is the ultimate end, with political power often just a means for attaining it.

Octy posted:

Quick question: How do you pronounce Pompey? I thought it was pronounced 'Pom-pee' (at least that's how my lecturers say it), but I was watching an episode of Rome today for the first time in years and they were all pronouncing it like 'Pompeii'.

Pom-pee in English. Rome shifts a few pronunications closer to Latin for semi-authenticity, if I remember correctly.

# ? Aug 21, 2012 02:02

Agesilaus: Jan 27, 2012; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Jazerus posted:

Would you mind discussing what those ways are? I'm honestly curious. I can think of relatively few ways that classical societies are markedly more "progressed" than ours, but I can think of reasons that it might appear that way - restricted literacy, emphasis on Athens, and our distance in time from the Ancient Greeks give them the appearance of being generally highly educated and intellectually progressive when the average Greek was, well, anything but.

Sure, we have regressed in many ways politically, culturally, and socially. Our academic and professional institutions have regressed in certain respects, too. However, when I say we've regressed in these ways (and I'll give examples), I don't mean that the common farmhand or labourer is more or less learned today than he was two thousand years ago.

I don't have much time to write this post (I wrote the latter two responses first, unfortunately), but here are some examples:

Academic and professional institutions have waned where law schools exist and are often necessary to become a lawyer. The schools simply waste three years of your life and place you in an immense amount of debt, despite having very little to do with the practice of law, very little to do with the formation and support of gentlemanly practitioners, and ultimately very little to do with anything of value at all. Law schools are a black mark on academia and the legal profession, and allowing such dreadful institutions to serve as gatekeepers is really a harmful regression from better days.

Politically, culturally, economically, and socially, many modern societies are flawed in certain respects compared to ancient societies like that of Sparta. Modern America, for example, is oppressed by the nobility clause, does not have an explicit class-based society, and in many ways is governed and controlled by low class people given over to money. Importantly, the institutions are designed to be vulgar and are beholden to lower class interests.

Culturally and philosophically, many modern people are in a worse position than learned Hellenes, where they are given to false moral and religious teachings. Christianity is of course ancient, but if we're talking about the heights reached by humans, then it remains that the most correct and helpful moral texts and cultural practices come from Ancient Greece and China. Indeed, the most valuable texts on other topics, such as politics and law, all come from the ancient world; their breadth of experience and knowledge when it comes to such matters is not rivalled by the rather simple and vulgar modern democrats. In some ways the modern is to be pitied, without the classics he is left a narrow minded and blinkered sort who can hardly imagine a world of such freedom and power as the ancients experienced.

I could go on and on, really, but each example is another discussion in and of itself. There are many times when people will disagree as to whether something is better or worse now, and it will have to be debated. Point is, in some ways many modern societies and people have risen above the ancients, and in other ways many modern societies and people are inferior to their learned ancestors.

Charlie Mopps posted:

Comparing us to the Romans is about as useful as comparing Earth to the moon. Yes, you can compare it, but it mostly shows how much we are not alike.

Studying classics is actually not that helpful if you are looking for guidance for the here and now. You are mostly studying the elite of the elite, filtered through 2000 years of civilizations trying to compare themselves to their idea of what Rome was (i.e. mostly Rome as an example of what the people wanted themselves to be).

You're utterly wrong, and that's almost all I can say in response because there's not much substance to your post.

The point of comparing things isn't necessarily to show that they're identical, so I have no idea why you think it's important that a comparison would show "how much we are not alike." At any rate, I don't know what the significance of comparing the moon to the earth is supposed to hold; classical and modern humans are both humans and subject to all that goes along with being human. The Classics are a rich source of guidance for the here and now, and that we would be "mostly studying the elite of the elite" is an argument in favour of studying primary sources because the elite of the elite produced texts of immense value and insight. As for it being filtered through thousands of years of civilization, that sort of process only increases its value where countless generations have meditated on ancient words of wisdom, and if the moderns upset you then just stick to primary sources and ignore the latter people altogether.

Anyway, there's no substance to your post, and it flies in the face of common sense and understanding given that billions of people study ancient greek and latin texts in the hopes of improving themselves and refining their behaviour (be it the new testament, plato, or some latin).

Bagheera posted:

We should quote this at the start of every history thread anybody makes. It should be the first lesson of any history class. The further back in time you go, the less a group's culture relates to your own.

That is terrible and harmful advice. Thankfully, the sort of sentiment you offer has been rejected by almost everyone; there is no shortage of people that look to ancient texts to lift themselves out of their lowly, modern station. Seeing as this is the Roman thread, I'll end with an excerpt from Polybius, discussing the Spartan saviour of Carthage, Xanthippos, and his Roman opponent, Regulus. The excerpt is contained in Book One of Polybius' Histories, and begins after the account of Regulus' defeat and capture:

"...There are a number of lessons to be learnt here, by any man of discernment, that should help him improve his life. For example, Regulus' ruin brought home to everyone at the time in the most stark manner the advisability of distrusting Fortune, especially when things are going well. Here was a man who, a little earlier, had refused to pity or pardon people in adversity, and now all of a sudden he was being taken to beg those same people for his life. Then again, the Euripidean tag, long recognised as sound, that "one wise plan is stronger than many hands", was confirmed by actual events, in the sense that just one man, one intellect, overcame a host that had seemed invincible and irresistible, revived a state that had plainly hit rock bottom, and alleviated the despair that had gripped its armed forces.

I have recorded these events in the hope that my readers will profit from them. Opportunities for changing one's life for the better are afforded by both one's own setbacks and those of others, while learning from personal disasters drives the lesson home most forcefully, learning from others' afflictions is less painful. Rather than choose the first way, then, where the lesson entails both distress and risk, we should always seek out the second, as a pain-free method of seeing how to make improvements. And so we see that there is no teacher better at preparing one for real life than the experience of reading political history, because only political history delivers, without pain, the ability to judge the better course of action, whatever the occasion of the situation."

Agesilaus fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Aug 21, 2012

# ? Aug 21, 2012 03:00

Potzblitz!: Jan 20, 2005; Kung-Fu fighter

Agesilaus posted:

Politically, culturally, economically, and socially, many modern societies are flawed in certain respects compared to ancient societies like that of Sparta. Modern America, for example, is oppressed by the nobility clause, does not have an explicit class-based society, and in many ways is governed and controlled by low class people given over to money. Importantly, the institutions are designed to be vulgar and are beholden to lower class interests.

I love this paragraph. I'm going to have it framed.

# ? Aug 21, 2012 04:14

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

Hmm. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one - I see being "beholden to lower class interests", to the extent that that's at all true, as much more enlightened than favoring the upper class over the masses, for example; and ancient peoples were equally susceptible to "false religious or moral teachings", though I think that if you can tell falsehood from truth in such matters you should probably tell everyone else in the world the secret.

What I mean when I agree with Bagheera, etc. that it's sometimes fallacious to compare the ancient and the modern is that it's very easy to overestimate the degree to which a modern situation/society/whatever parallels an ancient one, failing to account for the different culture and motivations of the people and institutions involved and thus drawing entirely spurious conclusions from the exercise. Knowing history would be relatively pointless if it didn't give insight into the world as it is now, but it's a matter of rigorously checking yourself whenever you enter into such a comparison to make sure it's a worthwhile one.

I think this might be a little too close to historical navel-gazing for this thread though.

Edit: And to be clear, I almost didn't respond at all because your post was so off-puttingly disconnected from reality. If you hadn't written anything other than the response to my question I likely would not have, since that section of the post screams of backwards reasoning that is just impossible to engage with.

Jazerus fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Aug 21, 2012

# ? Aug 21, 2012 04:24

Foyes36: Oct 23, 2005; Food fight!

All I know is that if I go see a doctor with a complaint and they start quoting Galen or something, I'm finding a different clinic.

# ? Aug 21, 2012 04:26

OctaviusBeaver: Apr 30, 2009; Say what now?

No but see, Mitt Romney is exactly like Caligula. Or something.

# ? Aug 21, 2012 04:27

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

Agesilaus posted:

Sure, we have regressed in many ways politically, culturally, and socially. Our academic and professional institutions have regressed in certain respects, too. However, when I say we've regressed in these ways (and I'll give examples), I don't mean that the common farmhand or labourer is more or less learned today than he was two thousand years ago.

I don't have much time to write this post (I wrote the latter two responses first, unfortunately), but here are some examples:

Academic and professional institutions have waned where law schools exist and are often necessary to become a lawyer. The schools simply waste three years of your life and place you in an immense amount of debt, despite having very little to do with the practice of law, very little to do with the formation and support of gentlemanly practitioners, and ultimately very little to do with anything of value at all. Law schools are a black mark on academia and the legal profession, and allowing such dreadful institutions to serve as gatekeepers is really a harmful regression from better days.

Politically, culturally, economically, and socially, many modern societies are flawed in certain respects compared to ancient societies like that of Sparta. Modern America, for example, is oppressed by the nobility clause, does not have an explicit class-based society, and in many ways is governed and controlled by low class people given over to money. Importantly, the institutions are designed to be vulgar and are beholden to lower class interests.

Culturally and philosophically, many modern people are in a worse position than learned Hellenes, where they are given to false moral and religious teachings. Christianity is of course ancient, but if we're talking about the heights reached by humans, then it remains that the most correct and helpful moral texts and cultural practices come from Ancient Greece and China. Indeed, the most valuable texts on other topics, such as politics and law, all come from the ancient world; their breadth of experience and knowledge when it comes to such matters is not rivalled [of course the Ancients didn't give a poo poo about spelling] by the rather simple and vulgar modern democrats. In some ways the modern is to be pitied, without the classics he is left a narrow minded and blinkered sort who can hardly imagine a world of such freedom and power as the ancients experienced.

I could go on and on, really, but each example is another discussion in and of itself. There are many times when people will disagree as to whether something is better or worse now, and it will have to be debated. Point is, in some ways many modern societies and people have risen above the ancients, and in other ways many modern societies and people are inferior to their learned ancestors.

You're utterly wrong, and that's almost all I can say in response because there's not much substance to your post.

The point of comparing things isn't necessarily to show that they're identical, so I have no idea why you think it's important that a comparison would show "how much we are not alike." At any rate, I don't know what the significance of comparing the moon to the earth is supposed to hold; classical and modern humans are both humans and subject to all that goes along with being human. The Classics are a rich source of guidance for the here and now, and that we would be "mostly studying the elite of the elite" is an argument in favour of studying primary sources because the elite of the elite produced texts of immense value and insight. As for it being filtered through thousands of years of civilization, that sort of process only increases its value where countless genereations have meditated on ancient words of wisdom, and if the moderns upset you then just stick to primary sources and ignore the latter people altogether.

Anyway, there's no substance to your post, and it flies in the face of common sense and understanding given that billions of people study ancient greek and latin texts in the hopes of improving themselves and refining their behaviour (be it the new testament, plato, or some latin).

That is terrible and harmful advice. Thankfully, the sort of sentiment you offer has been rejected by almost everyone; there is no shortage of people that look to ancient texts to lift themselves out of their lowly, modern station. Seeing as this is the Roman thread, I'll end with an excerpt from Polybius, discussing the Spartan saviour of Carthage, Xanthippos, and his Roman opponent, Regulus. The excerpt is contained in Book One of Polybius' Histories, and begins after the account of Regulus' defeat and capture:

"...There are a number of lessons to be learnt here, by any man of discernment, that should help him improve his life. For example, Regulus' ruin brought home to everyone at the time in the most stark manner the advisability of distrusting Fortune, especially when things are going well. Here was a man who, a little earlier, had refused to pity or pardon people in adversity, and now all of a sudden he was being taken to beg those same people for his life. Then again, the Euripidean tag, long recognised as sound, that "one wise plan is stranger than many hands", was confirmed by actual events, in the sense that just one man, one intellect, overcame a host that had seemed invicinble and irresistible, revived a state that had plainly hit rock bottom, and alleviated the despair that had gripped its armed forces.

I have recorded these events in the hope that my readers will profit from them. Opportunities for changing one's life for the better are afforded by both one's own setbacks and those of others, while learning from personal disasters drives the lesson home most forcefully, learning from others' afflictions is less painful. Rather than choose the first way, then, where the lesson entails both distress and risk, we should always seek out the second, as a pain-free method of seein how to make improvements. And so we see that there is no teacher better at preparing one for real life than the experience of reading political history, because only political history delivers, without pain, the ability to judge the better course of action, whatever the occasion of the situation."

I... see. Congrats on being an authoritarian in favor of a literal slave society run by plutocrats and military dictatorships. The political history of Rome and most of recorded history, at least in the great man sense you're referring to, is nothing more than intellectual masturbation over the personal lives of the elite and privileged.

icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Aug 21, 2012

# ? Aug 21, 2012 04:54

Phobophilia: Apr 26, 2008; by Hand Knit

Careful there if you upset him his pyloric valve will release.

# ? Aug 21, 2012 05:00

Sleepy Beef: Oct 2, 2009; by Fistgrrl

Agesilaus posted:

Sure, we have regressed in many ways politically, culturally, and socially. Our academic and professional institutions have regressed in certain respects, too. However, when I say we've regressed in these ways (and I'll give examples), I don't mean that the common farmhand or labourer is more or less learned today than he was two thousand years ago.

I don't have much time to write this post (I wrote the latter two responses first, unfortunately), but here are some examples:

Academic and professional institutions have waned where law schools exist and are often necessary to become a lawyer. The schools simply waste three years of your life and place you in an immense amount of debt, despite having very little to do with the practice of law, very little to do with the formation and support of gentlemanly practitioners, and ultimately very little to do with anything of value at all. Law schools are a black mark on academia and the legal profession, and allowing such dreadful institutions to serve as gatekeepers is really a harmful regression from better days.

Politically, culturally, economically, and socially, many modern societies are flawed in certain respects compared to ancient societies like that of Sparta. Modern America, for example, is oppressed by the nobility clause, does not have an explicit class-based society, and in many ways is governed and controlled by low class people given over to money. Importantly, the institutions are designed to be vulgar and are beholden to lower class interests.

Culturally and philosophically, many modern people are in a worse position than learned Hellenes, where they are given to false moral and religious teachings. Christianity is of course ancient, but if we're talking about the heights reached by humans, then it remains that the most correct and helpful moral texts and cultural practices come from Ancient Greece and China. Indeed, the most valuable texts on other topics, such as politics and law, all come from the ancient world; their breadth of experience and knowledge when it comes to such matters is not rivalled by the rather simple and vulgar modern democrats. In some ways the modern is to be pitied, without the classics he is left a narrow minded and blinkered sort who can hardly imagine a world of such freedom and power as the ancients experienced.

I could go on and on, really, but each example is another discussion in and of itself. There are many times when people will disagree as to whether something is better or worse now, and it will have to be debated. Point is, in some ways many modern societies and people have risen above the ancients, and in other ways many modern societies and people are inferior to their learned ancestors.

You're utterly wrong, and that's almost all I can say in response because there's not much substance to your post.

The point of comparing things isn't necessarily to show that they're identical, so I have no idea why you think it's important that a comparison would show "how much we are not alike." At any rate, I don't know what the significance of comparing the moon to the earth is supposed to hold; classical and modern humans are both humans and subject to all that goes along with being human. The Classics are a rich source of guidance for the here and now, and that we would be "mostly studying the elite of the elite" is an argument in favour of studying primary sources because the elite of the elite produced texts of immense value and insight. As for it being filtered through thousands of years of civilization, that sort of process only increases its value where countless generations have meditated on ancient words of wisdom, and if the moderns upset you then just stick to primary sources and ignore the latter people altogether.

Anyway, there's no substance to your post, and it flies in the face of common sense and understanding given that billions of people study ancient greek and latin texts in the hopes of improving themselves and refining their behaviour (be it the new testament, plato, or some latin).

That is terrible and harmful advice. Thankfully, the sort of sentiment you offer has been rejected by almost everyone; there is no shortage of people that look to ancient texts to lift themselves out of their lowly, modern station. Seeing as this is the Roman thread, I'll end with an excerpt from Polybius, discussing the Spartan saviour of Carthage, Xanthippos, and his Roman opponent, Regulus. The excerpt is contained in Book One of Polybius' Histories, and begins after the account of Regulus' defeat and capture:

"...There are a number of lessons to be learnt here, by any man of discernment, that should help him improve his life. For example, Regulus' ruin brought home to everyone at the time in the most stark manner the advisability of distrusting Fortune, especially when things are going well. Here was a man who, a little earlier, had refused to pity or pardon people in adversity, and now all of a sudden he was being taken to beg those same people for his life. Then again, the Euripidean tag, long recognised as sound, that "one wise plan is stronger than many hands", was confirmed by actual events, in the sense that just one man, one intellect, overcame a host that had seemed invincible and irresistible, revived a state that had plainly hit rock bottom, and alleviated the despair that had gripped its armed forces.

I have recorded these events in the hope that my readers will profit from them. Opportunities for changing one's life for the better are afforded by both one's own setbacks and those of others, while learning from personal disasters drives the lesson home most forcefully, learning from others' afflictions is less painful. Rather than choose the first way, then, where the lesson entails both distress and risk, we should always seek out the second, as a pain-free method of seeing how to make improvements. And so we see that there is no teacher better at preparing one for real life than the experience of reading political history, because only political history delivers, without pain, the ability to judge the better course of action, whatever the occasion of the situation."

This is the worst post I've ever read on these forums that didn't involve fantasizing about sexual intercourse with cartoon characters. Honestly, that's quite an accomplishment.

# ? Aug 21, 2012 05:28

Bum the Sad: Aug 25, 2002; Hell Gem

Sleepy Beef posted:

This is the worst post I've ever read on these forums that didn't involve fantasizing about sexual intercourse with cartoon characters. Honestly, that's quite an accomplishment.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's brain hurt when I read that. At first I thought hold up maybe I just read it too fast. Then I read it again and realized not only was it horribly written but the content was utter poo poo as well.

# ? Aug 21, 2012 05:44

Grand Prize Winner: Feb 19, 2007

Ah, but you see, that man has had a classical education so only he can properly understand the greatness of Antiquity :shepface:

# ? Aug 21, 2012 05:47

SavageGentleman: Feb 28, 2010; When she finds love may it always stay true.
This I beg for the second wish I made too.; Fallen Rib

Is this..real? I wouldn't bat an eye if I heard this talk about "ancients", "learned ancestors" and "vulgar lowborn" from an info-dump NPC in some kind of postapocalyptic RPG. I especially like your utter disregard for the common people, or the 90% of ancient society that lead disenfranchised, lovely lives, while working their asses off, so the creme de la creme could write your beloved texts, without benefiting from it in any way.
It must be really hard living with all those "vulgar modern democrats" around. :wtc:

SavageGentleman fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Aug 21, 2012

# ? Aug 21, 2012 10:35

physeter: Jan 24, 2006; high five, more dead than alive

Oh that's nice. See I stopped reading & participating in this thread because it was too full of well-balanced, educated people having a sane discussion. Now I can start again.

# ? Aug 21, 2012 14:04

Ormi: Feb 7, 2005; B-E-H-A-V-E
Arrest us!

It's disheartening that nobody knows how to spot a Grumblefish account these days. We've regressed as an Internet community.

# ? Aug 21, 2012 14:42

BrainDance: May 8, 2007; Disco all night long!

Grand Fromage come back from Japan the thread needs you!

I'm anticipating his response. This is like meeting someone who identifies as an Epicurian.

# ? Aug 21, 2012 14:43

PhantomZero: Sep 7, 2007

BrainDance posted:

Grand Fromage come back from Japan the thread needs you!

I'm anticipating his response. This is like meeting someone who identifies as an Epicurian.

Is there something wrong with identifying as an Epicurean? Or Epicureanism in general?

# ? Aug 21, 2012 15:13

BrainDance: May 8, 2007; Disco all night long!

As a philosophy or something no. Self identifying it as your religion is really smug though and reeks of grecophilia or whatever you would call that guy.

To be honest I think I was thinking of Stoicism.

# ? Aug 21, 2012 15:29

fantastic in plastic: Jun 15, 2007; The Socialist Workers Party's newspaper proved to be a tough sell to downtown businessmen.

Ormi posted:

It's disheartening that nobody knows how to spot a Grumblefish account these days. We've regressed as an Internet community.

A day I find a Grumblefish post in a thread I have bookmarked is always a good day.

PhantomZero posted:

Is there something wrong with identifying as an Epicurean? Or Epicureanism in general?

It would be a little like encountering someone who identifies as a Druid or a follower of the Eleusinian Mysteries. Beyond the fragments of Epicurus' Principal Doctrines, T. Lucretius Carus' "The Nature of Things," and various other fragments, we don't really have any Epicurean teachings. So it's likely that anyone identifying as an Epicurean today is probably just making it up as he goes along and has only a superficial resemblance to the ancient philosophical school and is just using the word because it's ~cool~ and ~ancient~.

# ? Aug 21, 2012 16:00

Jamwad Hilder: Apr 18, 2007; surfin usa

I too yearn for the days where accidentally cutting myself on a plow caused me to get tetanus and die.

# ? Aug 21, 2012 16:06

Iseeyouseemeseeyou: Jan 3, 2011

canuckanese posted:

I too yearn for the days where accidentally cutting myself on a plow caused me to get tetanus and die.

Weren't the Romans able to reverse blindness? I remember watching a documentary about this and it was weird as gently caress. Fromage could you comment on this (if you're back)?

# ? Aug 21, 2012 18:11

Amused to Death: Aug 10, 2009; google "The Night Witches", and prepare for

Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:

Weren't the Romans able to reverse blindness? I remember watching a documentary about this and it was weird as gently caress. Fromage could you comment on this (if you're back)?

This wouldn't exactly be too surprising actually. There are forms of blindness like hysterical blindness that are not permanent and can be cured. I imagine after a while they stumbled onto some plants that did whatever to relax people enough to make blindness go away. But, to be more practical and something that was probably more common, the Romans(as well as other ancients) did in fact carry about cataract surgery, and cataracts are still among the leading cause of vision failing in people. So yeah, the Romans among others were probably able to reverse some blindness, it's actually not that radical though, it in fact pre dates Rome
http://www.rila.co.uk/issues/free/001/2001/v4n2/p61_65/p61_65.html

Amused to Death fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Aug 21, 2012

# ? Aug 21, 2012 18:30

Iseeyouseemeseeyou: Jan 3, 2011

Amused to Death posted:

This wouldn't exactly be too surprising actually. There are forms of blindness like hysterical blindness that are not permanent and can be cured. I imagine after a while they stumbled onto some plants that did whatever to relax people enough to make blindness go away. But, to be more practical and something that was probably more common, the Romans(as well as other ancients) did in fact carry about cataract surgery, and cataracts are still among the leading cause of vision failing in people. So yeah, the Romans among others were probably able to reverse some blindness, it's actually not that radical though, it in fact pre dates Rome
http://www.rila.co.uk/issues/free/001/2001/v4n2/p61_65/p61_65.html

Thanks, I was talking about Cataract Surgery.

# ? Aug 21, 2012 18:37

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Agesilaus posted:

Sure, we have regressed in many ways politically, culturally, and socially...

During the long years I've been lurking here I don't remeber reading a post written by such a smug oval office as you. You are saying that we've regressed politically from a state that had literally divided it's citizens to social classes depending on their wealth, and that we've regressed socially from a state that literally divided human beings into those who were free and those who were farming implements, and that we've regressed culturally from a state that had institutionalized pedophilia.

Are you like those anime fans who praise glorious Nippon because they like childporn? Or are you an otherkin Spartan philosopher?

# ? Aug 21, 2012 20:23

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

Agesilaus posted:

Sure, we have regressed in many ways politically, culturally, and socially.

I have stared at the living eye of idiocy and survived. Thank you for that experience.

# ? Aug 21, 2012 20:41

FreudianSlippers: Apr 12, 2010; Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Agesilaus posted:

As for it being filtered through thousands of years of civilization, that sort of process only increases its value where countless generations have meditated on ancient words of wisdom, and if the moderns upset you then just stick to primary sources and ignore the latter people altogether.

The wisdom of the ancients:

"The one who buggers a fire burns his penis"

"Weep, you girls. My penis has given you up. Now it penetrates men�s behinds. Goodbye, wondrous femininity!"

"I screwed the barmaid"

I think you might actually be on to something.

Where can I sign up and why do I suspect that black shirts are part of the uniform?

FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Aug 21, 2012

# ? Aug 21, 2012 21:41

Sleepy Beef: Oct 2, 2009; by Fistgrrl

FreudianSlippers posted:

The wisdom of the ancients:

"The one who buggers a fire burns his penis"

"Weep, you girls. My penis has given you up. Now it penetrates men�s behinds. Goodbye, wondrous femininity!"

"I screwed the barmaid"

I think you might actually be on to something.

Where can I sign up and why do I suspect that black shirts are part of the uniform?

I mean that first one is pretty good advice. When was the last time you hosed a flame?

# ? Aug 21, 2012 23:51

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

Sleepy Beef posted:

I mean that first one is pretty good advice. When was the last time you hosed a flame?

That's easy. Lucy Elliott after my high school reunion.

Wait, wrong sort of flame.

# ? Aug 22, 2012 00:27

Grand Prize Winner: Feb 19, 2007

Sleepy Beef posted:

I mean that first one is pretty good advice. When was the last time you hosed a flame?

Yeah, but how can you tell which part of a fire is its butt?

# ? Aug 22, 2012 06:12

Paxicon: Dec 22, 2007; Sycophant, unless you don't want me to be

That Crazy Autist-Fascist posted:

Sure, we have regressed in many ways politically, culturally, and socially...

Do you even know what the word progress means?

Tell me about when you dropped out of law school and how you would've made it if only you had been taught by Apollonius Molon instead

# ? Aug 22, 2012 07:48

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

I remember reading a story about a Roman senator getting a chamber pot thrown on him while arguing in the Senate by angry Romans but I don't remember who it was or when it was, but I must know: Was shitposting really invented by Rome?

# ? Aug 23, 2012 09:54

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Did different provinces of the Empire have rivalries?

# ? Aug 24, 2012 02:35

Grand Fromage: Jan 30, 2006; L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?

Christ, I go on vacation for a week and this happens? I can't leave you people anywhere. Anyway, if that wasn't a troll there's no better response than the one posted.

FreudianSlippers posted:

The wisdom of the ancients:

"The one who buggers a fire burns his penis"

"Weep, you girls. My penis has given you up. Now it penetrates men�s behinds. Goodbye, wondrous femininity!"

"I screwed the barmaid"

Luigi Thirty posted:

I remember reading a story about a Roman senator getting a chamber pot thrown on him while arguing in the Senate by angry Romans but I don't remember who it was or when it was, but I must know: Was shitposting really invented by Rome?

Society has regressed so far, now we merely shitpost instead of throwing actual poo poo on people. :negative:

# ? Aug 24, 2012 03:25

Kemper Boyd: Aug 6, 2007; no kings, no gods, no masters but a comfy chair and no socks

The guy who got poo poo dumped on him was Marcus Calpurnius Bibulus, serving as consul with Caesar. They didn't like each other very much so Caesar spent lots of time outmaneuvering Bibulus and Bibulus stalled Caesar constantly. After getting a bucket of poo poo dumped on him, Bibulus locked himself up in his house and refused to appear in public.

# ? Aug 24, 2012 06:59

Amused to Death: Aug 10, 2009; google "The Night Witches", and prepare for

For what Wikipedia is worth, the story on him is pretty interesting to anyone else who may have interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Calpurnius_Bibulus

Roman politics :allears:

# ? Aug 24, 2012 14:39

Agesilaus: Jan 27, 2012; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Wow, I didn't expect everyone to immediately agree with me, but I did expect people to think a little before pressing the post button. There's really nothing of substance for me to respond to; I guess when you're right you're right.

Paxicon posted:

Tell me about when you dropped out of law school and how you would've made it if only you had been taught by Apollonius Molon instead

But I didn't drop out of law school, and now I have a position that allows me to apply the Classics every day. So... instead of discussing a fictional universe where I failed, how about you tell us why the American law school system is anything other than a giant, steaming turd.

# ? Aug 26, 2012 02:17

Skellyscribe: Jan 14, 2008; See how yond justice rails upon yond simple thief. Hark in thine ear: change places and, handy-dandy, which is the justice, which is the thief?

Agesilaus posted:

Wow, I didn't expect everyone to immediately agree with me, but I did expect people to think a little before pressing the post button. There's really nothing of substance for me to respond to; I guess when you're right you're right.

But I didn't drop out of law school, and now I have a position that allows me to apply the Classics every day. So... instead of discussing a fictional universe where I failed, how about you tell us why the American law school system is anything other than a giant, steaming turd.

When the goons question my anti-democratic elitism, I reply with the wisdom of the ancients:

Catullus 16 posted:

I will sodomize you and face-gently caress you

# ? Aug 26, 2012 04:31

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# ? May 12, 2024 22:43

Ginette Reno: Nov 18, 2006; How Doers get more done; Fun Shoe

Amused to Death posted:

For what Wikipedia is worth, the story on him is pretty interesting to anyone else who may have interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Calpurnius_Bibulus

Roman politics

I like how he kept trying to block the passage of laws by saying he was spending all his time looking at omens. Seemed like his whole career was spent trying to be a troll to Caesar.

# ? Aug 26, 2012 04:32

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Roman/ancient history: Checkmate, Atenists

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