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Kunzelman posted:I actually think quite the opposite--it has a rhythm to it that really, really workd compared to the overly-long The Kindly Ones that preceded it. What kinds of things were "crammed in" (you might want to spoiler it, I don't know.) Aghghg yes it was the Kindly Ones I was thinking about, forgot about The Wake. 
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Jul 31, 2012 10:34
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Hob's not immortal because he doesn't want to die, Hob's immortal because he had to luck to be saying he didn't want to die while Death was within earshot and in a whimsical mood.
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Jul 31, 2012 10:40
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I think he's talking about Hob's denouement, where he compares death to a thief that steals a little from you time and time again until you want to just lay down and shut up forever.
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Jul 31, 2012 13:29
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:I think he's talking about Hob's denouement, where he compares death to a thief that steals a little from you time and time again until you want to just lay down and shut up forever. That...seems pretty accurate a metaphor?
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Jul 31, 2012 14:17
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Mister Roboto posted:That...seems pretty accurate a metaphor? Except that a lot of people die well before their time. Hob would be a great character if he said the secret to not dieing is to randomly meet the embodiment of death. Instead he says the secret is to just not die, pretty sure he says that exactly towards the end.
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Jul 31, 2012 15:38
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StumblyWumbly posted:Except that a lot of people die well before their time. No that is what he says that makes him intresting to Death and Dream.
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Jul 31, 2012 15:45
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StumblyWumbly posted:Except that a lot of people die well before their time. But that is the secret. The story starts with his semi misguided belief that people die because they ACCEPT death as inevitable. Dream takes him up on that claim, partially to challenge him to prove it. Dream asks him multiple times if he wants to give up his immortality (which is basically accepting his death), and, even at his lowest, Hob says no. He also makes the explicit point that he isn't any wiser and not that great a man: just a regular person who happens to like living. THAT's why he stays alive, because he doesn't want to die. As you said, a lot of people die before their time. Hob's time will come when he chooses to. Orpheus spent an infinite amount of days as a disembodied head before Dream finally gave in and ended his immortality. Hob will probably do the same, especially as his only real long-term friend is now dead.
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Jul 31, 2012 15:50
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Mister Roboto posted:But that is the secret. The story starts with his semi misguided belief that people die because they ACCEPT death as inevitable. Dream takes him up on that claim, partially to challenge him to prove it. Dream asks him multiple times if he wants to give up his immortality (which is basically accepting his death), and, even at his lowest, Hob says no. He also makes the explicit point that he isn't any wiser and not that great a man: just a regular person who happens to like living. THAT's why he stays alive, because he doesn't want to die. He mentions kids and wifes have died throughtout histor and he still wants to live.
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Jul 31, 2012 15:52
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I didn't know someone could hate Flex Mentallo this much: http://www.tcj.com/flex-mentallo-and-the-morrison-problem/
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Aug 1, 2012 16:52
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bairfanx posted:I didn't know someone could hate Flex Mentallo this much: http://www.tcj.com/flex-mentallo-and-the-morrison-problem/ That article summarises to "Grant Morrison has some good ideas, but his head is so far up his own rear end that he often forgets to tell a story". Which is not an unfair assessment of his career. If you've read Supergods, his book about the history of superheroes, you'll find that the section that coincides with his career basically runs "Some really good writers did some important stuff. Then I took a bunch of drugs and redefined the genre. (Repeat ad nauseam)" On those occasions when he is on form he usually knocks it out of the park, though.
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Aug 1, 2012 18:19
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Jedit posted:"Some really good writers did some important stuff. Then I took a bunch of drugs and redefined the genre. (Repeat ad nauseam)" "And all my friends did, too."
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Aug 1, 2012 18:20
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Jedit posted:That article summarises to "Grant Morrison has some good ideas, but his head is so far up his own rear end that he often forgets to tell a story". Which is not an unfair assessment of his career. If you've read Supergods, his book about the history of superheroes, you'll find that the section that coincides with his career basically runs "Some really good writers did some important stuff. Then I took a bunch of drugs and redefined the genre. (Repeat ad nauseam)" This sounds like a pretty legit criticism of Supergods and... not much else? What has he written where he's been so cought up with tossing out ideas that he's just forgotten to tell a story? It wouldn't surprise me if there were a few scattered issues of Doom Patrol or The Invisibles where this happened, but that's more the exception than the rule. Either way, the point is that the writer is leveraging Flex Mentallo as evidence that Morrison is garbage at storytelling (and a handful of other accusations), which seems pretty absurd to me.
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Aug 1, 2012 19:25
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bairfanx posted:This sounds like a pretty legit criticism of Supergods and... not much else? Most of the stuff people lionise him for, to be honest. The Invisibles is barely coherent half the time and the more King Whenever Morrison gets given free rein, he always indulges in bouts of pointless psychedelic poo poo with optional mysticism and drugs. He's at his best when working to a fixed length in a story with no scope for bullshit - read We3 or Joe the Barbarian and you'll see just how good he can be.
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Aug 1, 2012 21:53
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Jedit posted:Most of the stuff people lionise him for, to be honest. The Invisibles is barely coherent half the time and the more King Also, the dude loving LOVES transexuals. Not that it's relevant at all or anything, but after reading Supergods... he just likes working them into things. Guy is obsessed with androgyny.
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Aug 2, 2012 01:48
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Jedit posted:Most of the stuff people lionise him for, to be honest. The Invisibles is barely coherent half the time and the more King Ah, I see that you, too, have read The Filth.
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Aug 2, 2012 02:12
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Jedit posted:Most of the stuff people lionise him for, to be honest. The Invisibles is barely coherent half the time and the more King
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Aug 2, 2012 02:40
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bairfanx posted:I now see where the disagreements are coming from, and I think it puts us at an impasse. Joe is perhaps the worst thing of his I have read, saved only by the art of Sean Murphy. Speaking of, did anyone read Punk Rock Jesus last week? It started a bit slow and felt disjointed, but by the end of the issue, I was looking forward to where things were going.
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Aug 2, 2012 06:49
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Pope Guilty posted:Ah, I see that you, too, have read The Filth. The Filth is complete poo poo, can't believe I wasted €20 on that garbage.
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Aug 2, 2012 14:09
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Soonmot posted:Speaking of, did anyone read Punk Rock Jesus last week? It started a bit slow and felt disjointed, but by the end of the issue, I was looking forward to where things were going. Beautiful art with an okay plot but overall rather poorly written. I wish it were in color, though  I can't tell if I'm going to trade-wait on it or not.
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Aug 2, 2012 17:26
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Quantum of Phallus posted:The Filth is complete poo poo, can't believe I wasted €20 on that garbage. Explain... I recommend the filth to people so I'd want to get the opinion of someone who regrets reading it. Having not paid to read it, I still felt like I would.
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Aug 3, 2012 02:30
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I'm a fan of a lot of Morrison's stuff but The Filth is just too much for my liking. It's like his Promethea, total self-indulgence. I just didn't think the plot was very good at all.
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Aug 3, 2012 10:35
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The plot is nonexistent and the whole thing seems like a collection of incoherent dreams that might make sense if Grant Morrison were there to personally explain them.
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Aug 3, 2012 10:48
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Quantum of Phallus posted:I'm a fan of a lot of Morrison's stuff but The Filth is just too much for my liking. It's like his Promethea, total self-indulgence. I just didn't think the plot was very good at all. Promethea is Alan Moore.
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Aug 3, 2012 11:51
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I loved Promethea though, even for its total self-indulgence. The art is amazing. Not so much in the filth.
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Aug 3, 2012 14:43
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Jedit posted:He's at his best when working to a fixed length in a story with no scope for bullshit - read We3 or Joe the Barbarian and you'll see just how good he can be. See, I think We3 and Joe are weak as far as story goes because they're just so... normal. So traditional. Personally, I think Morrison is at his best when he's firmly in the Superhero genre and actively exploring it. Probing into its history and cultural impact whilst still managing to tell a compelling story, as he was in Final Crisis and Batman.
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Aug 3, 2012 14:59
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Jedit posted:Promethea is Alan Moore. I assumed it was a comparison to Moore.
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Aug 4, 2012 00:36
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^^^ OK, I get it. The sentence was ambiguous.Shameless posted:See, I think We3 and Joe are weak as far as story goes because they're just so... normal. So traditional. I might give you a nod for We3, which is basically The Incredible Journey crossed with Robocop, but what's traditional about a story where a young boy hallucinates while on the verge of a diabetic coma?
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Aug 4, 2012 01:30
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Jedit posted:^^^ OK, I get it. The sentence was ambiguous. Actually, the Joe the Barb story was utterly familiar to me, not as a 1:1 comparison to any particular story, but similar to a lot of YA fiction I read growing up. I enjoyed it but it didn't make me light up with its originality.
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Aug 4, 2012 01:52
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Pope Guilty posted:The plot is nonexistent and the whole thing seems like a collection of incoherent dreams that might make sense if Grant Morrison were there to personally explain them. I feel like the plot, as absurd as it was, only fell apart in the last few issues, and I personally took it as part of the story (is the protagonist(can't remember his name right now) crazy or not?) it reminded me a lot of the paranoia present in a lot of Phillip k dick works (like do androids dream of electric sheep), and seemed completely natural to me. I am also in love with the invisibles tho, and cried multiple times during Promethea, but I guess maybe a lot of the themes discussed in all three of these titles I find personally relevant, where I can easily see people approaching them as 'oh he's just doing this to be different.' Particularly when it comes to magic and drugs and sex and their interrelation. I think Moore and Morrison are two of the most interesting people to read when it comes to occultism because they are trying to advance a progression Of magical thought and it's practical import in our world, instead of just retreading old ground and advancing it as part of the plot because 'its magick', and so it's novel.
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Aug 4, 2012 02:06
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Yeah, the fact that Moore and Morrison apparently believe that magic is a real thing doesn't help either of them.
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Aug 4, 2012 12:12
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Pope Guilty posted:Yeah, the fact that Moore and Morrison apparently believe that magic is a real thing doesn't help either of them. Okay, that's what I figured the kicker would be. If something like an ideological difference is loving up your immersion or whatever, not much to discuss there. Also the way you phrase your statement makes it pretty obvious that you have a definition of the word magic that Moore and Morrison don't share. Ed: this is more noted in the vein that if you don't share the same definitions of such things as 'feminism', or 'science', or 'communism', or whatever, it's going to be harder to approach a presentation/analysis of such. Rama of Ra fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Aug 4, 2012 |
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Aug 4, 2012 17:35
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Welp, finished up the latest Scalped trade today. I was kind of disappointed with the way it focused a lot on Karnow. I mean, one of the things I absolutely love about the series so far is that all the characters are so unpredictable and cross up your expectations of them and it was kind of nice to see that happen even with a guy like Karnow, but we are clearly in end game territory and we already have so many characters. I found my self getting impatient reading about him. Hell of a cliff hanger though. I trade wait so I don't really know, is this series already over?
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Aug 4, 2012 18:26
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ParliamentOfDogs posted:Welp, finished up the latest Scalped trade today. I was kind of disappointed with the way it focused a lot on Karnow. I mean, one of the things I absolutely love about the series so far is that all the characters are so unpredictable and cross up your expectations of them and it was kind of nice to see that happen even with a guy like Karnow, but we are clearly in end game territory and we already have so many characters. I found my self getting impatient reading about him. Hell of a cliff hanger though. I trade wait so I don't really know, is this series already over? Almost, we're dealing with the fallout after the events of the final confrontation.
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Aug 4, 2012 23:30
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Rama of Ra posted:Okay, that's what I figured the kicker would be. If something like an ideological difference is loving up your immersion or whatever, not much to discuss there. The Invisibles (which was pretty fun) includes an explicit appeal from Morrison to his fans to cast a spell using chaos magic techniques lifted from AO Spare. That fits anybody's definition of magic.
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Aug 5, 2012 06:54
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So SCALPED just ended. According to Aaron there are no plans to release hardcover editions which is a bitch-and-a-half because this is arguably the best thing Vertigo's put out in years.
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Aug 22, 2012 22:22
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This makes me sad as I've held off on buying the trades, thinking they'd automatically be putting out HC editions. No doubt there's enough love for this series that it'd warrant a hardcover or deluxe edition. I've purchased the first few issues off Comixology and decided to hold off on the rest.
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Aug 22, 2012 22:31
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nosophoros posted:So SCALPED just ended. According to Aaron there are no plans to release hardcover editions which is a bitch-and-a-half because this is arguably the best thing Vertigo's put out in years. Made even worse by the fact that there are some nice hardcovers available in Europe if you read French.
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Aug 22, 2012 22:47
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This last issue was heart wrenching. I'm going to miss this series.
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Aug 23, 2012 01:00
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friendo55 posted:This makes me sad as I've held off on buying the trades, thinking they'd automatically be putting out HC editions. No doubt there's enough love for this series that it'd warrant a hardcover or deluxe edition. Trust nothing. They loving solicited Lucifer hardcovers a few years back and there's been hide nor hair of those. Even if they'd said Scalped was getting the HC treatment, I wouldn't believe it til I saw it.
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Aug 23, 2012 02:29
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I'm still shocked we're only a month away from a THIRD 100 Bullets hardcover volume.
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Aug 23, 2012 03:21
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