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TBH GW remembering the Primarch's names is a miracle of continuity. They've rarely bothered with keeping minor details like that straight between publications.
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Sep 1, 2012 16:06
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berzerkmonkey posted:Yes, but after thinking about it, in this case, it makes more sense. I mean, what is more believable? Many of the Primarchs had specific genetic coding that made their legions subtly different. For example Lorgar's Word Bearers had the loyalty gene buffed up by the chaos gods when the primarchs were snatched. Lorgar was kept in the warp for a much longer time period and he was the last primarch to appear on a planet so he's also the youngest in some ways. Magnus' legion has always had the psyker flaw, and mutation was a major problem before he was found by the Emperor, to the point where he was seriously considering purging the Thousand Sons. But Magnus fought a demon in the warp and fixed it somehow (except he didn't). So it's not unreasonable to assume that the black rage has always existed in the Blood Angels.
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Sep 1, 2012 17:48
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I checked, because I have nothing better to do. Apparently it's the Red Thirst which sometimes is literally the marine going nuts because he remember's Sanguinius' death. The Black Rage was a throwaway title for a special rule in 3rd ed. Oh GW....
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Sep 1, 2012 18:05
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Arquinsiel posted:I checked, because I have nothing better to do. Apparently it's the Red Thirst which sometimes is literally the marine going nuts because he remember's Sanguinius' death. The Black Rage was a throwaway title for a special rule in 3rd ed. The Red Thirst is the one where they crave the taste of blood and have to constantly fight their bloodlust, and is the result of a flaw in their gene-seed. The Black Rage is when on the eve of battle, they start reliving the final battles of Sanguinius, usually believing that they are themselves in fact Sanguinius, and that one is caused by some sort of psychic imprint left by the death of Sanguinius (who in addition to everything else had enormous psychic power).
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Sep 1, 2012 18:11
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What was the psychic power order for the primarchs? Papa Emprah >= Magnus > Sanguinius > Lorgar > Horus/Russ > the rest > Alpharius Omegon
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Sep 1, 2012 18:23
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Nephilm posted:What was the psychic power order for the primarchs? Of all the primarchs, I believe only Magnus and Sanguinius had actually manifested psychic powers (that they could do things with). And the latter could only see into the future (ie. his own death), so really the "psychic power order" would be Emperor >>> Magnus > Sanguinius
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Sep 1, 2012 18:52
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Cream_Filling posted:The Red Thirst is the one where they crave the taste of blood and have to constantly fight their bloodlust, and is the result of a flaw in their gene-seed. The Black Rage is when on the eve of battle, they start reliving the final battles of Sanguinius, usually believing that they are themselves in fact Sanguinius, and that one is caused by some sort of psychic imprint left by the death of Sanguinius (who in addition to everything else had enormous psychic power).
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Sep 1, 2012 18:56
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Well, I'm also accounting for other abilities alongside shooting lightning. Lorgar had a strong sensitivity to the warp and his supernatural charisma was in part psychic, as well as manifesting itself as a kind of aura of power when going all out in combat. Russ, on his part, was able to go toe-to-toe with Magnus and kick his rear end. That's psychic resilience of the highest grade, and as a comparison point you can take the example of other primarchs getting manhandled by sorcery (like Mr. Robot Gillman in Know No Fear). In that sense I guess I should also add Curze above the others, since he had prophetic visions much like Sanguinius, and the rest of the Primarchs showed no other semblance of warp abilities.
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Sep 1, 2012 19:00
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I saw someone mention the white scars will get a HH book. I agree that would be cool seeing as how they've mostly been ignored so far. Wouldn't mind a salamanders or raven guard book either.
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Sep 1, 2012 19:03
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Fuzzy Pipe Wrench posted:I saw someone mention the white scars will get a HH book. I agree that would be cool seeing as how they've mostly been ignored so far. Wouldn't mind a salamanders or raven guard book either. As long as we're wishing out loud, how about an Imperial Army HH book ?
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Sep 1, 2012 19:15
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mllaneza posted:As long as we're wishing out loud, how about an Imperial Army HH book ?
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Sep 1, 2012 19:27
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mllaneza posted:As long as we're wishing out loud, how about an Imperial Army HH book ? Legion is almost entirely from the point of view of the Imperial Army
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Sep 1, 2012 20:37
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Who else thinks that Alpharius Omegon was meant to be a 'rank and file' version of the Primarchs? They are smaller in stature than the other primarchs, the youngest and they are twins. I figure the Emprah was refining the primarchs down to something that would be able to be mass produced and A & O were the product of that.
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Sep 2, 2012 14:45
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I just think they were smaller because Alpharius & Omegon are one primarch, so you get half the psychic potential, half the physicality etc. A rather simplistic idea but they are referred to in legion as one entity, the cabal addresses them as a primach, not primarchs.
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Sep 2, 2012 16:01
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Supposedly they're two souls in one body. I also subscribe to the idea that the Emperor actually instilled each Primarch with a fraction of his own soul as part of the techno-sorcery part of their creation, and each reflects a portion of his ancient personality. This is also why he couldn't just start over with a new batch after the originals were lost.
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Sep 2, 2012 16:05
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Corax had some psychic ability, couldn't he make people not see him?
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Sep 3, 2012 02:25
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TheLawinator posted:Corax had some psychic ability, couldn't he make people not see him? Something about if he wished to be invisible/undetectable he could just walk around in a crowded room without anyone noticing. I think the ability extended to mechanical detectors too but I'm not 100% on that one. I think Deliverance Lost goes into it in detail
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Sep 3, 2012 04:55
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It was kinda described that the way he raised he developed the natural talent to just go unnoticed. Its not like he can stand in a brightly lit room and be invisible, but in the dark he naturally knows where to go and maybe able to sway minds to ignore his shape in the shadows.
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Sep 3, 2012 06:36
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Cream_Filling posted:Supposedly they're two souls in one body. You mean one Primarch in two bodies.
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Sep 3, 2012 20:04
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SlaveTrader posted:You mean one Primarch in two bodies. gently caress, i got those two reversed. Yeah, one soul in two bodies. Whoops.
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Sep 3, 2012 20:12
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I read Legion. How can the Cabal be anything other than a deception by Chaos? If Chaos won the Horus Heresy, I expect it would have farmed humanity instead of exterminating it. Plus humanity isn't entirely responsible for Chaos - what about the Eldar and the Orks?
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Sep 3, 2012 20:43
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Farming humanity would be the sensible thing to do. Chaos isn't sensible, it's a force of nature, you can't apply logic to it. There was nothing about exterminating humanity, just that Chaos is self-destructive in it's nature, combined with Horus' eventual realisation of what he did, would have been enough to weaken the powers of Chaos enough that they were no longer a threat to other sentient species. The Orks have nothing to do with Chaos, the whole thing was based on the 'fact' that Chaos had become so invested in Humanity (to counteract the threat the Emperor's goals presented to them) that they we're all in no matter what. Humanity didn't create Chaos, but they are the deciding factor in it's 'future'.
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Sep 3, 2012 21:01
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Baron Bifford posted:I read Legion. How can the Cabal be anything other than a deception by Chaos? If Chaos won the Horus Heresy, I expect it would have farmed humanity instead of exterminating it. Plus humanity isn't entirely responsible for Chaos - what about the Eldar and the Orks? The Cabal has forseen that if Horus was to kill his father and win. He would break down and proceed to kill the entire empire out of grief. So it would be a faster death than to square off against Chaos for 10k years if Horus were to fall.
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Sep 3, 2012 22:09
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EyeRChris posted:The Cabal has forseen that if Horus was to kill his father and win. He would break down and proceed to kill the entire empire out of grief. So it would be a faster death than to square off against Chaos for 10k years if Horus were to fall. Which in turn implies a Chaos plot. A straight up confrontation is a lose/lose proposition for Chaos without an X-Factor. Either the Emperor succeeds, heals the Imperium, and continues his plan to separate humanity from the Warp, or Horus succeeds and burns it all down. The best outcome for Chaos is the current one, an eternal stalemate with lots of emotional turbulence and pyschic potential building up over time. Chaos isn't just frothing insanity, it's also slow, chilling, methodical malevolence.
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Sep 4, 2012 02:01
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Thulsa Doom posted:Chaos isn't just frothing insanity, it's also slow, chilling, methodical malevolence. Chaos is Chaos. T'is in the name. Change, revolution, upsetting the status quo and so forth. 10k of stagnation and 'order' isn't what they'd want. Well, maybe Nurgle, but he is such a bore. As to the Cabal, they are probably not a Chaos controlled group. Mainly because I don't want to see how that reveal would be handled.
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Sep 4, 2012 03:04
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Cynic Jester posted:Chaos is Chaos. T'is in the name. Change, revolution, upsetting the status quo and so forth. 10k of stagnation and 'order' isn't what they'd want. Well, maybe Nurgle, but he is such a bore. They want everything at once.  The Cabal thing screams Tzeentch. Especially if they really do oppose Chaos but have been manipulated into supporting a chaos-y outcome.
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Sep 4, 2012 03:09
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Totally a Malal plot.
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Sep 4, 2012 04:34
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Thulsa Doom posted:Either the Emperor succeeds, heals the Imperium, and continues his plan to separate humanity from the Warp
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Sep 4, 2012 05:23
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Even if the Cabal was sincere, I don't see why Alpharius would agree to wipe out the human race. It's kind of like burning your house down to get rid the termites.
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Sep 4, 2012 05:30
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Baron Bifford posted:Even if the Cabal was sincere, I don't see why Alpharius would agree to wipe out the human race. It's kind of like burning your house down to get rid the termites. I thought out of all the Primarchs, Alpharius was suppose to be the only one who was willing to work with Xenos. The others wouldn't have bothered listening or trusting the Cabal and would have killed them on sight. I don't think we're suppose to know whether the Cabal were good or not but I don't think their plan would have worked. It might have locked out Chaos from one galaxy but the universe is a pretty big place.
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Sep 4, 2012 08:45
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Alpha legion was the one that was always willing to make the hard decision for what would be better for the empire. The cabal showed them two choices. A quick and seemingly painless death or 10k years of anguish as Chaos turns humanity into fuel and nightmares. Alpha Legion only sided with Horus because the quick death would be better for all. Although its possible that Omegeron might be even playing Alpha legion against themselves and setting up plans to help humanity to win. Alpha Legion is on the razer edge of Heretics or Loyalists but unless Games Workshop is willing to advance the story we'll probably never see Alpha Legion turn against Chaos and potentially wipe out a legion or two before going down in a blaze of glory. The Cabal I think look at it this way. If Horus did win and killed all of Humanity in less than a thousand years. The Chaos gods would be denied the power they'd have gained from the conflict making it easier for the next galactic generation to fight and perhaps destroy Chaos.
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Sep 4, 2012 11:40
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Aren't the primarchs the only ones in the alpha legion that know what they are fighting for? I thought the common Alpha Legion marine was just as corrupted by chaos as any traitor chapter. Unless the dissapearance of Alpharius is an elaborate ruse I don't think the alpha legion has any hidden agenda anymore. They're just mindless pawns of chaos by now after 10 millenia of corruption.
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Sep 4, 2012 12:42
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Mikojan posted:Aren't the primarchs the only ones in the alpha legion that know what they are fighting for? Recent Horus Heresy developments involving the Alpha Legion are suggesting that Alpharius and Omegon are turning against each other. I also highly doubt that there is going to be a reveal that they've been playing the long game for 10,000 years. Most likely the legion was locked into its course when Roboute killed whoever it was that he killed.
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Sep 4, 2012 14:24
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Mikojan posted:Aren't the primarchs the only ones in the alpha legion that know what they are fighting for? This isn't correct. They might be traitors, but they definitely aren't corrupted. Just because they side with Horus doesn't mean their intentions are guided by the chaos powers. Also, all fluff that I have read suggests that the Alpha Legion stays out of the Eye of Terror and chill in the galactic east a fair bit, loving with Ultramarines and their successors. Also Omegan is still alive even if Alpharius is dead (he might not be, even Robot Gullymein had his doubts about it) The same applies for the Night Lords to an extent. Urzas is looked down by all of his comrades because of the taint of Chaos and only tolerate him because of their dwindling numbers. Having said that, there is no unity left in the traitor legions after the primarchs ascend to daemonhood, disappear or are killed. The only thing that unites them in any major way is Abaddon and his black crusades and Huron Blackheart, basically. Also- if you haven't read Deliverance Lost, do so. The Alpha Legion are theor own masters, I reckon.
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Sep 4, 2012 14:28
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EyeRChris posted:The Cabal I think look at it this way. If Horus did win and killed all of Humanity in less than a thousand years. The Chaos gods would be denied the power they'd have gained from the conflict making it easier for the next galactic generation to fight and perhaps destroy Chaos.
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Sep 4, 2012 14:40
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But there aren't any races that are populous enough to fuel the Chaos gods, or there are tau who have a small psychic presense. Orks have their own, superior gods.
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Sep 4, 2012 19:18
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I'm just checking if I followed this correctly from the Saint storyline. During the siege the Saint that Gaunt recognizes as the student from Hagia is just convinced she is the Saint and being manipulated by the General. The real Saint is the girl Sabbatine that runs into Milo during the fighting. Now when the girl dies the whole area gets hit with a psychic sucker punch and starts falling apart. Later on the spirit of the Saint jumps into the girl from Hagia and suddenly she's the real deal. The Imperials rally and badassery commences.
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Sep 4, 2012 19:34
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Yup, you've got it. Wonderful story. The bit in the seminary with the 'baptism' is fantastic.
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Sep 4, 2012 20:05
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Trast posted:I'm just checking if I followed this correctly from the Saint storyline. Pretty much, yeah. That book was amazing.
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Sep 4, 2012 20:10
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I'm pretty sure that quite a few of Alpha legionnaires have "lost sight" of what they're trying to do in 10 millennia and that explains why some of them are corrupted. Honestly like the 2 missing primarchs, alpha legion is left intentionally ambiguous so that people can play on both sides of the fence in the table top. We'll probably never get an answer unless they decide to go forward with the story. As far as humans and chaos go, I was under the impression that humanity has a disproportionate footprint in the warp. That's why chaos is/was so keen on turning humanity.
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Sep 4, 2012 20:12
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