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Segmentation Fault
Jun 7, 2012

Guillermus posted:

I have Doom 3 both retail and steam version and I hope that there is an option to just upgrade to BFG edition because it would be stupid (even if it is not cheaper) to have Doom 3 + ROE and BFG edition separately.

I wonder if they'll just make BFG edition as DLC on Steam.

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Guillermus
Dec 28, 2009



That would be nice, because right now for my modding (just stupid stuff i like to try) RoE is sometimes annoying as is a mod itself and one of the things I read is that it will be now a single launcher/main menu for both. Will make easier to install a few engine mods i have aswell.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Guillermus posted:

A month ago was lurking around and found somewhere that some weapons will include a built-in flashlight (basically a duct tape), better support for widescreen (like Quake 4 on steam) and with the source code release will be more mod friendly, as in total conversions work properly with RoE etc... This was from a random doom 3 modding forum so it might be not true but it seems plausible considering that they improved Quake 4 (a Raven game) a bit for its digital release.
Official word from Id+Beth is:
Remixed mode which has an armor-mounted flashlight with a battery instead of the original "weapon" flashlight, some lighting placement adjustments, and a few visual changes (zombie civillians look more demonic, for example), as well as the original version of the game.

Lots of under-the-hood changes to the engine imported from Rage in order to get things running nicely on the consoles. Though this may or may not cause trouble with mods and source ports... Carmack was still investigating, last I heard.

3D support if you have a 3D TV, or the right PC hardware.

Guillermus posted:

I have Doom 3 both retail and steam version and I hope that there is an option to just upgrade to BFG edition because it would be stupid (even if it is not cheaper) to have Doom 3 + ROE and BFG edition separately.
All signs indicate it's a separate game. Maybe they'll surprise me...

SavageMessiah
Jan 28, 2009

Emotionally drained and spookified

Toilet Rascal
I think it will have VR support too, if you have the hardware. Carmack talks quite a bit about it in the Quakecon keynote.

Kazvall
Mar 20, 2009

This Hexen remake for Doom3 needs to get completed sooner. Pretty drat good demo, though. If you guys haven't seen this, check it out!

http://www.moddb.com/mods/hexen-edge-of-chaos

closeted republican
Sep 9, 2005
God Quake 3 Team Arena is a complete mess of a game. It's ridiculously easy to make yourself overpowered (you can either have permanent Regen with no armor degrading, double the damage you do, or be twice as fast) and just steamroll the enemy team. However, the bots are so loving stupid that it easily takes 7+ minutes to get their team's flag back. You have to do everything for your team, which is pretty annoying. The whole thing feels like a half-baked attempt at competing with UT and TFC's CTF modes with none of the charm or fun those games have. I can't believe that iD Software actually made it, not a third party.

I was considering "beating" the single player mode, but the bots are so poo poo I'm thinking about giving up. Shame, because running around as a demi-god and pulverizing the other team with the Guard or Double powerups is a good stress reliever.

The Prox Launcher and Chaingun are really cool tho. I wish they would've been in a better game, or at least default Quake 3.

Paul Pot
Mar 4, 2010

by Y Kant Ozma Post

closeted republican posted:

God Quake 3 Team Arena is a complete mess of a game. It's ridiculously easy to make yourself overpowered (you can either have permanent Regen with no armor degrading, double the damage you do, or be twice as fast) and just steamroll the enemy team. However, the bots are so loving stupid that it easily takes 7+ minutes to get their team's flag back. You have to do everything for your team, which is pretty annoying. The whole thing feels like a half-baked attempt at competing with UT and TFC's CTF modes with none of the charm or fun those games have. I can't believe that iD Software actually made it, not a third party.

I was considering "beating" the single player mode, but the bots are so poo poo I'm thinking about giving up. Shame, because running around as a demi-god and pulverizing the other team with the Guard or Double powerups is a good stress reliever.

The Prox Launcher and Chaingun are really cool tho. I wish they would've been in a better game, or at least default Quake 3.

All of Quake 3 related single player is pretty bad compared to the UT games, just play Quake Live. I read somewhere that most UT customers never played online.

DoombatINC
Apr 20, 2003

Here's the thing, I'm a feminist.





Paul Pot posted:

I read somewhere that most UT customers never played online.
I owned UT99 for about a year before I even had internet access. What can I say, I'm a sucker for a good botmatch.

Q3TA was a lot of fun, even if it was a hot mess. The weapons were cool and I liked a lot of the levels in it, and it would have probably been more successful if it weren't for those ridiculous powerups.

closeted republican
Sep 9, 2005

DoombatINC posted:

I owned UT99 for about a year before I even had internet access. What can I say, I'm a sucker for a good botmatch.

Q3TA was a lot of fun, even if it was a hot mess. The weapons were cool and I liked a lot of the levels in it, and it would have probably been more successful if it weren't for those ridiculous powerups.

Q3TA has good weapons (the prox launcher and chaingun are lots of fun to use) and some nice CTF maps that are a lot more straightforward than other games out there. The groundwork for a good teamwork game is there; someone just needs to polish it. Quake Live kind of did that; they nerfed some of the powerups, but didn't completely remove them.

NoodleBox
Jul 11, 2009
Demon Eclipse is dead, long live Demon Eclipse

http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=13397&start=3435#p642078

Dominic White
Nov 1, 2005


Sad. I'd love to see some of the best and brightest in the scene (Xaser probably could do some great things) come in and help complete it, using the leftover pieces.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Dominic White posted:

Sad. I'd love to see some of the best and brightest in the scene (Xaser probably could do some great things) come in and help complete it, using the leftover pieces.
Xaser's currently revamping HACX into something awesome...

...and doing Doom 2 The Way Id Did as well as god knows what else, so his hands are probably full. :(

drat shame, but it's great to see him upload everything for people to play with.

Xenaero
Sep 26, 2006


Slippery Tilde
It's good to see Xaser still alive and kicking.

Dominic White
Nov 1, 2005

A new Brutal Doom teaser video, now with non-distorted voicework! It sounds way better, and far more in keeping with the rest of the audio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_zqSyL948g

SolidSnakesBandana
Jul 1, 2007

Infinite ammo

DoombatINC posted:

I owned UT99 for about a year before I even had internet access. What can I say, I'm a sucker for a good botmatch.

UT99 had such great botmatches. It's a shame that Unreal Tournament 3 had such lovely ones. If you play at difficulties higher than normal in the 'campaign', any team based mode becomes essentially impossible to win because your team will just die all over the place and lose the match for you. I'd say very little playtesting went in to that because it's super obvious that you basically can't ever win.

It's always a shame when sequels drop the ball like that, especially considering UT3 came out a full 10 years after UT99 which everyone agreed had really good AI. On the whole I enjoyed UT3 but I guess nobody else did because there's only like 1 or 2 servers in all of existence that aren't filled with lovely bots. Since the last time I checked was like a year ago I'm sure there just aren't any more at all.

SolidSnakesBandana fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Sep 7, 2012

Cream-of-Plenty
Apr 21, 2010

"The world is a hellish place, and bad writing is destroying the quality of our suffering."

SolidSnakesBandana posted:

UT99 had such great botmatches. It's a shame that Unreal Tournament 3 had such lovely ones. If you play at difficulties higher than normal in the 'campaign', any team based mode becomes essentially impossible to win because your team will just die all over the place and lose the match for you. I'd say very little playtesting went in to that because it's super obvious that you basically can't ever win.

It's always a shame when sequels drop the ball like that, especially considering UT3 came out a full 10 years after UT99 which everyone agreed had really good AI. On the whole I enjoyed UT3 but I guess nobody else did because there's only like 1 or 2 servers in all of existence that aren't filled with lovely bots.

We've talked about it before, but I feel that UT3--with all of its polish and interesting ideas--especially dropped the ball when it came to aesthetics. Somewhere in the last decade, Cliff Bleszinski lost his loving mind and tried to put everything in techno-sarcophaguses. Big, dumb armor and big, dumb weapons. A million men shaped like metal beans firing weapons shaped like pogo sticks. Brown on black, too much detail, and overwhelming Giger-esque visuals.

gently caress that guy.

SolidSnakesBandana
Jul 1, 2007

Infinite ammo
Not to mention the absolutely absurd cutscenes. And Cliff Bleszinski's weird fetish for super-muscular dudes with soul patches. Man, I get sad whenever I think about how bad Unreal Tournament 3 turned out. It just sits on my Steam list, flaccid and unplayed :smith:

Guillermus
Dec 28, 2009



At least UT 2k4 was a good game with a great feel. Bots weren't as good as UT99 but still great and smart enough to take your orders and enjoy Onslaught or any other mode. UT99 will remain as my favourite FPS and UT2k4 is really high on that list too.

Stark
Jun 9, 2007
Is there a way to disable reloading in Brutal Doom? A cursory Google search has turned up nothing. I love the mod -- but having to reload is really changing the pace of Doom.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Cream-of-Plenty posted:

We've talked about it before, but I feel that UT3--with all of its polish and interesting ideas--especially dropped the ball when it came to aesthetics. Somewhere in the last decade, Cliff Bleszinski lost his loving mind and tried to put everything in techno-sarcophaguses. Big, dumb armor and big, dumb weapons. A million men shaped like metal beans firing weapons shaped like pogo sticks. Brown on black, too much detail, and overwhelming Giger-esque visuals.

gently caress that guy.
IIRC CliffyB didn't have much of anything to do with UT3 since he was busy on Gears of War. UT3's lead designer was Steve Polge, who... did the cool AI in UT99. Personally, I think UT3's problem was that it was basically the lesser project at Epic, having to live off fumes and the occasional chunk of cut content from Gears.

Yodzilla
Apr 29, 2005

Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch
There was nothing polished about UT3 when it was launched.

Cream-of-Plenty
Apr 21, 2010

"The world is a hellish place, and bad writing is destroying the quality of our suffering."

The Kins posted:

IIRC CliffyB didn't have much of anything to do with UT3 since he was busy on Gears of War. UT3's lead designer was Steve Polge, who... did the cool AI in UT99. Personally, I think UT3's problem was that it was basically the lesser project at Epic, having to live off fumes and the occasional chunk of cut content from Gears.

I just figured UT3 cribbed all of its art direction from the GoW IP, and since Bleszinski was to blame for GoW, he's to blame for UT3's art direction. This Steve Polge person, this is the first I'm hearing of him. He did me a stellar with the UT99 bot AI, but a not-so-stellar with the UT3 art. Basically, I'm willing to concede that his efforts cancel themselves out and Steve Polge doesn't actually exist.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Cream-of-Plenty posted:

I just figured UT3 cribbed all of its art direction from the GoW IP
I really mean that UT3 uses a bunch of leftovers from Gears. The Downtown map was salvaged from a cut Gears level called Timgad.

It's a real shame what happened to UT, really. Hopefully Epic give it another shot next gen, and give it their full attention.

Diabetes Forecast
Aug 13, 2008

Droopy Only
it's interesting how UT2k3 and 2k4 are basically them smashing stuff together at the last minute according to that article, and yet they're both infinitely better and more chaotic than UT3. it doesn't make much sense how things went so bad considering that.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
Hell, UT99 was originally more or less a standalone expansion pack. I used to have an Australian magazine that reviewed a very early build of UT99 by accident, and it still had lots of the Unreal poo poo like the Automag and the HUD.

Actually, all the Unreal 1 stuff, except the maps and music, is still in UT99. Which was a nice surprise for mod makers...

Cream-of-Plenty
Apr 21, 2010

"The world is a hellish place, and bad writing is destroying the quality of our suffering."

The Kins posted:

Hell, UT99 was originally more or less a standalone expansion pack. I used to have an Australian magazine that reviewed a very early build of UT99 by accident, and it still had lots of the Unreal poo poo like the Automag and the HUD.

Actually, all the Unreal 1 stuff, except the maps and music, is still in UT99. Which was a nice surprise for mod makers...

Yeah, some of the best UT99 mods required resources from Unreal 1. It was almost two games in one! I really wish that something as simple and chaotic as "Tally Ho!" made it to UT2k4, but we seem to be stuck with inferior replacements.

JackMackerel
Jun 15, 2011
Someone did port most of Unreal 1 to UT2004, only a few events (the biggest one I can remember is executing the condemned man in the electric chair at the beginning being absent) cut out. I don't think there was THAT big of a change (unlike UT3, which said 'gently caress you' to anyone who wanted custom skeletons).

Yeah, I'm really hoping Epic returns to UT sometime soon, and doesn't gently caress with mods. They've been really PC shy after GOW1 got pirated a ton...

Paul Pot
Mar 4, 2010

by Y Kant Ozma Post
The UT series always focused more on showing off 5 games in 1 and doing "cool poo poo" than offering a balanced, coherent game. I think Epic sold enough to justify making a fourth one, simply because it's an easy way of getting modders to play with their engine.

Epic's next game is a PC-exclusive (probably only until next gen consoles are announced).

Sir Lemming
Jan 27, 2009

It's a piece of JUNK!
"Retro" is in these days (kind of a paradox, I know) and there is no better franchise to retrofy than UT. I really hope they reboot it some day. Like many others have said, I've been pretty much perfectly fine with the way the franchise has evolved except for the aesthetics and a few other ideas that didn't quite pan out. (To be fair, UT99 has some modes that aren't all that great too.) I'd love a new UT that looks more like UT99 with a higher polycount, focuses on having a lot of maps instead of a few ridiculously detailed ones, brings back the energetic music, and incorporates all of the good ideas from the past few games (including vehicles). And some terribly-implemented new mode just for tradition's sake.

Something I would also like is a really robust MMO-style character creator, so that there's some element of persistence to go along with the inevitable social media integration and all that stuff. Seems like it would be easy enough to ignore if you wanted to, but a nice bonus if you care.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


I got tired of waiting for the beta release of the XL Engine and decided to play through Dark Forces in the alpha. Verdict: it actually works pretty well!

There are a few issues (shear-pitch, alternate fire is hardcoded to "R", F-keys can't be rebound) but on the whole it works pretty well, everything seems to be implemented and it's a much smoother experience than playing the original in dosbox.

It's kind of sad that a one-person project that's still in alpha has superior mouselook support to Aleph One, though.

The Kins posted:

Brief update on the Blood update Jace Hall was talking about recently:

Any word yet on the source code? Or is he still opposed to releasing the source because it might ruin his ~*~*perfect and unsullied multiplayer experience*~*~?

Mr.Success
Jun 15, 2007

Cream-of-Plenty posted:

too much detail

The visuals of modern FPS games bother me and I have not been able to completely distill what it is that seems "off" about them.

It definitely has something to do with detail though. I know in almost all games I drop the settings to low and turn off shadows and such. I'm very much a brightskins kind of gamer and visuals that needlessly get in the way of gameplay are awful. Trying to discern if there's an enemy hiding in some rubble or brush is anti-fun.

A great example of clarity being sacrificed over time as technology improves is definitely the Unreal series. You can see it in the progression of the classic Unreal 1 map DM-Curse. The map was definitely flawed in its flow and the later iterations tried to correct this, but by the time we get to DM-Curse4 the map was ruined by complicated visuals.

I'll be the first to admit that the Unreal Engine 2 version of Curse was shockingly cool looking when it first dropped, but once you get over the jump in technology you're left with an inferior map. Things got way worse visually with Unreal Engine 3. The amount of detail that you find in those maps should be reserved for slower paced single player games.

Diabetes Forecast
Aug 13, 2008

Droopy Only

ToxicFrog posted:

Any word yet on the source code? Or is he still opposed to releasing the source because it might ruin his ~*~*perfect and unsullied multiplayer experience*~*~?

last he said, it's not about that so much as the people who own the IP have no reason to allow the code to be released and pretty much would refuse to do so.

Paul Pot posted:

Epic's next game is a PC-exclusive (probably only until next gen consoles are announced).

They've already stated in a few articles that the next consoles aren't up to snuff at all. So either they are stuck with UE3 on consoles again or they have to tone down their own work (which I doubt they care for either). They'll probably be PC developers for a good while until things catch up.

Diabetes Forecast fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Sep 9, 2012

Chinese Tony Danza
Oct 30, 2007

Crappy Cat Connoisseur
So Doom 64 EX has some interesting bugs regarding the music. I was trying to import some of the classic music like somebody suggested a page or so ago, but it just doesn't want to work. Through combinations of adding new instruments to the soundfont and new MIDIs to a PWAD, the best results I've gotten are the game still working but the level just being silent. Worst case gives me an engine crash on starting a new game, which is really odd considering one of my attempts that made that happen was literally copying another song already in the game and renaming it to the first level's music. I've posted about it on their forums, but until I get an answer, sounds like it's just classic Doom sound effects for everyone and not music.

closeted republican
Sep 9, 2005

SolidSnakesBandana posted:

UT99 had such great botmatches. It's a shame that Unreal Tournament 3 had such lovely ones. If you play at difficulties higher than normal in the 'campaign', any team based mode becomes essentially impossible to win because your team will just die all over the place and lose the match for you. I'd say very little playtesting went in to that because it's super obvious that you basically can't ever win.

It's always a shame when sequels drop the ball like that, especially considering UT3 came out a full 10 years after UT99 which everyone agreed had really good AI. On the whole I enjoyed UT3 but I guess nobody else did because there's only like 1 or 2 servers in all of existence that aren't filled with lovely bots. Since the last time I checked was like a year ago I'm sure there just aren't any more at all.

UT3's (and UT2004 as well :v:) bot AI problem was that they were dumb as poo poo if they were on your team, but were competent on the enemy's team. Onslaught was a perfect example; your team would just gently caress around and try to kill random stragglers, while the enemy team would try to do things like get nodes and complete side objectives. That often led to the enemy team steamrolling you if you didn't know exactly what to do.

UT99 didn't have that. Play a CTF or Domination match with bots, and they'll be the ones capping points and flags most of the time. They're not taking ideal routes or whatever, but they're doing the objective and they're doing it often, which is far better than UT3/2004's bots that just sit around with their thumbs up their asses while you do all the work.

closeted republican fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Sep 10, 2012

Cream-of-Plenty
Apr 21, 2010

"The world is a hellish place, and bad writing is destroying the quality of our suffering."
I fondly remember playing maps like CTF-November (the submarine-themed map) with 15 bots. It was a loving slaughter, and usually pretty deadlocked. Every so often a bot would snag the enemy flag and--by the grace of God--somehow get far enough for a teammate to pick it up when he (inevitably) died.

I learned that using the 3rd-party "carry the flag" mutator made things a lot more interesting, since tagging the flag wouldn't magically return it to base. You'd actually have to carry it back. This made for some very tense segments, as an area would suddenly become a frantic killzone with both teams sending men to the meat grinder to move the flag 10 or 15 feet back and forth.

Then you throw in the WORM mutator with some UT4E weapons and :clint:

Paul Pot
Mar 4, 2010

by Y Kant Ozma Post
UT2k4 SP was really difficult on Godlike, especially the DM/TDM levels. Those fuckers matrix dodge every series of projectiles and have eyes at the back of their heads. Teaches you to become nasty with hitscan, which was seriously overpowered in that game anyway. Another one of their habits was that their accuracy drastically decreased with range, which means you could stand still and they would miss with lightning gun, but they'll instagib you with the flak cannon no matter how you dodge. Are the UT3 bots more "human" in their playstyle?

JackMackerel
Jun 15, 2011

closeted republican posted:

UT3's (and UT2004 as well :v:) bot AI problem was that they were dumb as poo poo if they were on your team, but were competent on the enemy's team. Onslaught was a perfect example; your team would just gently caress around and try to kill random stragglers, while the enemy team would try to do things like get nodes and complete side objectives. That often led to the enemy team steamrolling you if you didn't know exactly what to do.

UT99 didn't have that. Play a CTF or Domination match with bots, and they'll be the ones capping points and flags most of the time. They're not taking ideal routes or whatever, but they're doing the objective and they're doing it often, which is far better than UT3/2004's bots that just sit around with their thumbs up their asses while you do all the work.

Jesus Christ, yeah. Singleplayer was impossible to complete on Experienced when you hit the CTF ladder, since you were the only one trying to get the flag while your CPU teammates wouldn't follow you and get capped by the four assholes going into your base and waltzing by your retarded teammates.

Oddly enough, huge Onslaught bot matches actually had decent AI on both sides, especially if Species Statistics was turned on.

closeted republican
Sep 9, 2005

JackMackerel posted:

Jesus Christ, yeah. Singleplayer was impossible to complete on Experienced when you hit the CTF ladder, since you were the only one trying to get the flag while your CPU teammates wouldn't follow you and get capped by the four assholes going into your base and waltzing by your retarded teammates.

Oddly enough, huge Onslaught bot matches actually had decent AI on both sides, especially if Species Statistics was turned on.

Good thing you've never tried the nightmare that is the Assault ladder on higher difficulties. You literally have to do everything because your teammates will just sit around and pretend it's a deathmatch instead of a team-based mode. AS-Mothership in particular is a complete bitch to do because the enemy team will constantly hound you as soon as they spot you, but your team mates will just fly around and enjoy the scenery (or later on, stare at the pretty green walls while you keep going into an overglorified meat grinder set up by the enemy team).

Of course, when you're defending, the enemy team will quickly cut through your teammates and complete the objectives in record time. :v:

Convex
Aug 19, 2010
Anyone know if there's a way to unlock the framerate in Aleph One? I've managed to sort out the fov finally, but the whole thing looks jerky as hell.

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haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
There's no way right now.

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