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MoFauxHawk posted:I really like imagining the hypothetical of just going to a casino and putting $150,000 dollars on craps or roulette, and the idea that that's actually a better investment than law school for many people. But nobody would ever do it! Eh, that is an unfair comparison. In law school your degree of commitment, intellectual capability, and work ethic can impact your chances pretty significantly, and unlike a series of gambles, you can tweak these factors incrementally to improve your odds throughout the school year. I know many people that lived and breathed law school from day one and absolutely killed it on their exams. Sure, there are some people who did that same strategy and didn't turn out that well, but I believe the number of hard-workers and abject geniuses who did well is greater than the number of those same kinds of people who did not do well. Additionally, I know a lot of people who did not do well their first semester because of poor study habits and then became anti-social bookworms for their second semester and obtained top grades. There is an undeniable degree of control you're just not compensating for in that comparison.
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Sep 10, 2012 21:06
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I was talking about employment outcomes, not grades. Certainly there are people who work very hard and get jobs. Certainly there are people who work just as hard and do not.
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Sep 10, 2012 21:39
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Sulecrist posted:I was talking about employment outcomes, not grades. Certainly there are people who work very hard and get jobs. Certainly there are people who work just as hard and do not. Sure, but the important part is that it's not just like rolling the dice over a roll of cash. You have a certain extent of control throughout the process leading to the outcome. You can tweak and improve your chances with diligence. Some people are destined to win the bet before they even put the money down because they're just super smart. As much of a crap shoot as law school is, I still was able to peg a good chunk of people as the folks who would end up with the very top grades, and I was mostly right.
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Sep 10, 2012 21:42
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Tanicius posted:Eh, that is an unfair comparison. In law school your degree of commitment, intellectual capability, and work ethic can impact your chances pretty significantly, and unlike a series of gambles, you can tweak these factors incrementally to improve your odds throughout the school year. I know many people that lived and breathed law school from day one and absolutely killed it on their exams. Sure, there are some people who did that same strategy and didn't turn out that well, but I believe the number of hard-workers and abject geniuses who did well is greater than the number of those same kinds of people who did not do well. Additionally, I know a lot of people who did not do well their first semester because of poor study habits and then became anti-social bookworms for their second semester and obtained top grades. There is an undeniable degree of control you're just not compensating for in that comparison. But because of the curved grading system at law schools, and more importantly, because of the limited number of jobs, there must be a very, very large number of people going to law school for whom there is a greater than 50% chance that their money is wasted, who are indeed better off from the outset if they just put everything on black. There are people going to law school for whom their odds are probably better than 50%, but for the people for whom the odds are worse than 50%, I guess blackjack maybe is a better comparison. You can go into blackjack and certainly increase your odds over a person who doesn't know how to play, but you can only increase them so much. If you go to DePaul Law, your job odds are better if you study and work hard, but only so much better. The job prospects are still terrible, and only 10% of the students can be in the top 10%. And going to DePaul expecting to do better than 90% of the class because you're slumming it is bad logic. If you were really slumming it, you wouldn't be at DePaul, unless they gave you a full ride, in which case you're not risking the $150,000 anyway (just three years of career advancement and salary).
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Sep 10, 2012 21:47
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Tanicius posted:Sure, but the important part is that it's not just like rolling the dice over a roll of cash. You have a certain extent of control throughout the process leading to the outcome. You can tweak and improve your chances with diligence. Some people are destined to win the bet before they even put the money down because they're just super smart. As much of a crap shoot as law school is, I still was able to peg a good chunk of people as the folks who would end up with the very top grades, and I was mostly right. I agree with this. I was lucky enough to be study desk pals (we had desks 1L) with an eventual law review/federal clerkship recipient/biglaw offer recipient, former marine, if not the smartest guy I have met, pretty close. Dude was clearly going places. If that doesn't sound like you, then it's probably a crapshoot.
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Sep 10, 2012 21:49
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I, for one, am where I am because of skin color, hometown, and one good test score. EDIT: Alternatively, by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Sep 10, 2012 22:02
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Sulecrist posted:I, for one, am where I am because of skin color, hometown, and one good test score. You forgot "softball undergrad major with rampant grade inflation." 
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Sep 10, 2012 22:05
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I don't know if you've ever drank twenty beers or raided Molten Core or survived protracted dry spells but basically my undergrad rewarded endurance and by God I pulled myself up by my bootstraps and saved every DKP I had for that Might armor and OEB and nobody can tell me I didn't earn my empyrean splendor.
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Sep 10, 2012 22:16
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Sulecrist posted:I don't know if you've ever drank twenty beers or raided Molten Core or survived protracted dry spells but basically my undergrad rewarded endurance and by God I pulled myself up by my bootstraps and saved every DKP I had for that Might armor and OEB and nobody can tell me I didn't earn my empyrean splendor. Hahahaha what the gently caress is wrong with you. Molten Core is the WoW reference you drop? Molten Core? Might armor? Hahahahaha.
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Sep 10, 2012 22:19
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I honestly can not think of anything I have ever done that was less interesting than Molten Core. But the more I think about it the more comparisons to firm life I can draw.
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Sep 10, 2012 22:24
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Tanicius posted:Sure, but the important part is that it's not just like rolling the dice over a roll of cash. You have a certain extent of control throughout the process leading to the outcome. You can tweak and improve your chances with diligence. Some people are destined to win the bet before they even put the money down because they're just super smart. As much of a crap shoot as law school is, I still was able to peg a good chunk of people as the folks who would end up with the very top grades, and I was mostly right. But those people don't need to ask. That's the thing... It's like being asked "are we ready to marry?" If you gotta ask, then the answer is "prolly not, given the odds". That becomes the blanket answer to the question, but only because those asking are self-selecting. "I'm lukewarm about law school, my stinking family wants me to go" = definitive answer is don't go to law school. Does that make any sense? It's been a long day and the interface between my brain and the outside world is hazy at best. Basically, if a person asks "should I go to law school", the answer should always be no. If they're gunners who will hit it big regardless of the economy, then they either won't ask or will ignore the advice and go anyway.
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Sep 10, 2012 22:32
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Sulecrist posted:I, for one, am where I am because of skin color, hometown, and one good test score. I'm pretty sure you left someone off that list.
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Sep 10, 2012 23:14
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Sulecrist posted:I don't know if you've ever drank twenty beers or raided Molten Core or survived protracted dry spells but basically my undergrad rewarded endurance and by God I pulled myself up by my bootstraps and saved every DKP I had for that Might armor and OEB and nobody can tell me I didn't earn my empyrean splendor. What the gently caress is this poo poo
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Sep 10, 2012 23:37
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Legal forum chat: I've been pulling in some business from Avvo, just answering questions and disclaiming and such. Are there any other legal forums or avenues like it that you guys recommend?
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Sep 10, 2012 23:49
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CaptainScraps posted:Legal forum chat: The day I have to actually pay attention to my Avvo profile is the day I paint the ceiling with my brains
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Sep 11, 2012 00:17
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Soothing Vapors posted:The day I have to actually pay attention to my Avvo profile is the day I paint the ceiling with my brains Lucky fucker.
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Sep 11, 2012 00:19
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Soothing Vapors posted:The day I have to actually pay attention to my Avvo profile is the day I paint the ceiling with my brains do you guys park in government center ramp or fifth third ramp i was eating an apple in my car on thursday and i swear i could feel your presence
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Sep 11, 2012 01:00
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What the gently caress is Avvo and dear god please impose a split profession on america because the idea of trawling for clients sounds truly horrid.
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Sep 11, 2012 02:37
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CaptainScraps posted:Legal forum chat: Check your local rules on lawyer advertising, some jurisdictions get a little pissy about what goes onto Avvo and the like.
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Sep 11, 2012 02:42
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Agesilaus posted:What the gently caress is Avvo and dear god please impose a split profession on america because the idea of trawling for clients sounds truly horrid. Isn't the split profession going away in places that still have it?
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Sep 11, 2012 02:44
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What is this "split profession" thing??
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Sep 11, 2012 02:48
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Nothing like a first year law assignment to make me feel insanely loving dumb. Why did I decide to do this again? gently caress you university.
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Sep 11, 2012 02:50
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Sharks Below posted:Nothing like a first year law assignment to make me feel insanely loving dumb. Why did I decide to do this again? gently caress you university.
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Sep 11, 2012 03:43
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entris posted:What is this "split profession" thing?? I imagine he means the barrister/solicitor split. You meet your solicitor, tell him your problem, and when you're in court the barrister handles it, without anything more than a file (I guess). Also: wanna know that 1L assignment. e. Just to make myself seem like a bad person, I may have favorably defended the Law School Experience to a poor 1L at my school. Oral argument was fun, OK?
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Sep 11, 2012 04:00
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Green Crayons posted:Not the exam = not a problem. I remember being really bad at a 1L legal memo assigent -- both in terms of substance and time management. Didn't matter a lick at the end of 15 weeks. What was the assignment? To be honest this is my own fault. It's an online degree which has made me extremely lazy and procrastinatey. I aced last semester and now there's all this pressure to do it again which has made my brain go "NOPE".
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Sep 11, 2012 04:04
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Online degree? Please expand
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Sep 11, 2012 06:33
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It is a university degree that is being offered by distance education / flex-time. So lectures, materials, study guides, discussion forums etc are all online but exams are held in person. I live in the town which contains the University but am doing it this way so I can still work full time for some loving stupid reason.
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Sep 11, 2012 08:33
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I'm having an awesome time in law school, everyone should go. Caveat: I'm studying abroad in Amsterdam this semester.
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Sep 11, 2012 11:08
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Do any of you Chicago guys practice or know someone who practices employment law? A friend's wife was canned a week before maternity leave and the details sound suspect to me but I somehow don't know anyone who has any experience in the area.
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Sep 11, 2012 13:09
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Grumblefish's schtick has generated it's own smiley: code:
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Sep 11, 2012 13:16
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diospadre posted:Do any of you Chicago guys practice or know someone who practices employment law? A friend's wife was canned a week before maternity leave and the details sound suspect to me but I somehow don't know anyone who has any experience in the area. I do L&E (not strictly Illinois). There are no specific Illinois laws that apply (that I'm aware of), so feel free to PM me. I'm management side, but I can at least tell you whether she has a legit claim. HiddenReplaced fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Sep 11, 2012 |
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Sep 11, 2012 15:46
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C0PERNIC, THOU ART VANQUISHED AND CONQUERED.
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Sep 11, 2012 15:55
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Put that in the OP.
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Sep 11, 2012 16:13
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tau posted:C0PERNIC, THOU ART VANQUISHED AND CONQUERED. once again my Penis fails to perform under pressure.
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Sep 11, 2012 16:30
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joat mon posted:Grumblefish's schtick has generated it's own smiley: Grumblefish must be so proud. AI meets law school thread for the best opening to an opinion since Kozinski's dissent in US v. Ramirez-Lopez quote:We strongly discourage anyone from choosing crime as a career. Nevertheless, as with any pursuit in life, one should be prepared. For instance, if you are planning to carjack someone, you should make sure you can drive a stick-shift.
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Sep 11, 2012 19:00
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Poor Mons...had he been against any other team he would have won.
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Sep 11, 2012 19:03
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I find it more galling that you won than that I lost
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Sep 11, 2012 19:24
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Does anyone know anything about http://pluslaw.com ? I spied them off of Craigslist and I was wondering if this seems like a good way to get started out there if I don't have a firm to land in when I move this winter.
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Sep 11, 2012 22:31
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Referral and lead programs and are largely catpoop, and there are a ton of them. I'm sure some people have luck, especially high volume firms, but a lot of people get taken. I don't know this particular site, but it looks like a million others. As a solo, I get bombarded with high pressure sales of this poo poo. It was like 5x a day at first, now down to like once a week. One of the main issues is that you don't need it. Just put an ad in your local paper for whatever practice area, and people come out of the woodwork. We're so used to seeing ads on TV that a lot of people think law requires advertising or leads to generate business. It's the opposite: going into divorce (for example) is like trying to drink from a firehose. The problem is how to handle the load, not waiting for the phone to ring. Check out the legal services section of craigslist. It's free. I advertise on that whenever I need a little extra volume, and I'll get a pile of new cases each run.
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Sep 12, 2012 00:22
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HiddenReplaced posted:Poor Mons...had he been against any other team he would have won. If only the Panthers' running game wasn't such garbage............ The recaps next to every game are kind of astounding. We won't even need sportswriters in a few years.
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Sep 12, 2012 00:38
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