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Maera Sior
Jan 5, 2012

I have a landlord/tenant/sublease question. Maryland, PG county.

"Sub-let agrees to pay a deposit of $1000. - To bind Sub-let's pledge of full compliance with the terms of this agreement. Security deposit may not be used to pay rent. Release of the Security Deposit, at the option of the Primary Tenant's is subject to the provisions below:
A. The full terms of this Agreement has been adhered to.
B. No damage to the premises, buildings, or grounds is evident.
C. The walls and carpets of the Sub-let's room and hallway are spotlessly clean, ordorless and unmarked. The bathroom fixtures, walls, and floor are clean and undamaged.
D. All unpaid charges have been paid including bills, late charges, delinquent rents, etc.
E. All keys have been returned."

Is this legal? Per MD law, landlord/rental agreements cannot stipulate this, as it ignores regular wear and tear, which cannot be deducted from the security. Does this magically become legal when it involves a sublease, despite the fact that the originally renter cannot be billed for any of it?

I don't want this to go nuts in here, so after a response or two I'd like to take this to PM/e-mail.

ETA: I'm referring to provision C. No lawsuit, have not consulted a lawyer, etc. Housemates (the renters) are threatening to withhold my deposit (I am the sub-letter) over this. They are about to get back to town and I want to know what my options are.

Maera Sior fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Sep 7, 2012

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WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo

Maera Sior posted:

I have a landlord/tenant/sublease question. Maryland, PG county.

"Sub-let agrees to pay a deposit of $1000. - To bind Sub-let's pledge of full compliance with the terms of this agreement. Security deposit may not be used to pay rent. Release of the Security Deposit, at the option of the Primary Tenant's is subject to the provisions below:
A. The full terms of this Agreement has been adhered to.
B. No damage to the premises, buildings, or grounds is evident.
C. The walls and carpets of the Sub-let's room and hallway are spotlessly clean, ordorless and unmarked. The bathroom fixtures, walls, and floor are clean and undamaged.
D. All unpaid charges have been paid including bills, late charges, delinquent rents, etc.
E. All keys have been returned."

Is this legal? Per MD law, landlord/rental agreements cannot stipulate this, as it ignores regular wear and tear, which cannot be deducted from the security. Does this magically become legal when it involves a sublease, despite the fact that the originally renter cannot be billed for any of it?

I don't want this to go nuts in here, so after a response or two I'd like to take this to PM/e-mail.

ETA: I'm referring to provision C. No lawsuit, have not consulted a lawyer, etc. Housemates (the renters) are threatening to withhold my deposit (I am the sub-letter) over this. They are about to get back to town and I want to know what my options are.

http://www.dclawstudents.org/

They can get you a referral to someone in MD who does L&T law who can probably answer this for you.

Maera Sior
Jan 5, 2012

Baruch Obamawitz posted:

http://www.dclawstudents.org/

They can get you a referral to someone in MD who does L&T law who can probably answer this for you.

Thanks. I'd rather have an answer before next week (obviously), but I'll go in on Tuesday.

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo

Maera Sior posted:

Thanks. I'd rather have an answer before next week (obviously), but I'll go in on Tuesday.

You can just call, because they don't do MD themselves, so you can save yourself the trip.

Maera Sior
Jan 5, 2012

Baruch Obamawitz posted:

You can just call, because they don't do MD themselves, so you can save yourself the trip.

They sent me to http://www.clspgc.org/, which has the advantage of a) being closer and b) opening at 9. Does anyone have experience with these sorts of things? Should I arrive at 8:45 to make sure I get in? How long do they give for a consultation?

Jet Ready Go
Nov 3, 2005

I thought I didn't qualify. I was considered, what was it... volatile, self-centered, and I don't play well with others.
Hey guys,

I live in New York State and my company recently switched to e-paystubs which my housing department is not accepting for some reason. Maybe a layout problem, I don't know. It looks pretty "fake" to me even though it's real and has this poo poo ugly flowery font on it.

Is it illegal for me to re-format all my CURRENT AND CORRECT paystub information to a more professional layout and re-submit that information?

Or is that seen as fraud because it wasn't EXACTLY what my company provided me?

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride
My gut says as long as you don't change any data and they accept it, you are fine. However, I know nothing about New York housing law.

Jet Ready Go
Nov 3, 2005

I thought I didn't qualify. I was considered, what was it... volatile, self-centered, and I don't play well with others.
poo poo thing is the "pay stub" format my company is giving me looks like a loving word document. I think that's probably the problem. But jesus gently caress guys.. a paystub is a paystub. As long as all the information is there why the gently caress isn't it being accepted? Call the place up if you don't understand it. loving New York.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
Have you tried asking why it was rejected?

betaraywil
Dec 30, 2006

Gather the wind
Though the wind won't help you fly at all

What if you got a statement of confirmation from your HR person/people? Like "yes, that really is what our paystub looks like. Signed and dated, guy who put comic sans on a legal document."

It also might have a spillover effect of them realizing that their paystubs look fake.

Jet Ready Go
Nov 3, 2005

I thought I didn't qualify. I was considered, what was it... volatile, self-centered, and I don't play well with others.

Guy Axlerod posted:

Have you tried asking why it was rejected?

The letter just requests for MORE information and there IS no more to give. This is what you asked for, I sent you ALL the information and you ask for MORE. There IS no MORE.

bombhand
Jun 27, 2004

Is there a number you can call to reach someone in that department and ask them?

T.S. Smelliot
Apr 23, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
I have a landlord/tenant/collections issue, in Hillsborough county, FL:

Here's the basics:

In ~2009-2010, I shared and apartment with 3 others. Myself and two others were on the lease, one of the other guys' girlfriend moves in about halfway through the time we lived there. Early half of 2010, I move in with my fiance but continue to pay rent as normal at the apartment. We decide to part ways and end the lease at the end of August 2010, all pay our share of what is owed and go about our way. One of my former roommates dropped off the rest of our share of the bills and claims everything was paid in full. (For what it's worth I have no reason to distrust him although the possibility has entered my mind)

Fast forward to recently, I decide to check my credit only to see that there is a bill in collections in the amount of ~300 dollars to the apartment company. I contact the apartment company who inform me that there were "charges accrued on move out" and they were able to send me a copy of my move out statement with a balance of ~$150.00. Needless to say, this came out of left field as I've never been contacted in any form by the collections agency and the others on the lease also claim the same. I'm unsure of what the next step to take should be here. The money itself isn't a HUGE issue but I certainly don't want to pay any more than what I legally am required to pay. After doing some research it seems that the collections agency can charge interest, but only on a judgment and only up to 10% in FL? Where is this 300$ coming from and what do I do next?

I'm considering trying to convince the company to pull the account back from the agency and just pay them what was originally owed, and I am telling the others on the lease that they need to pay their share of it. One of them claims that he checked his credit as well and that he sees no charge on his, which I find hard to believe given all of our names were on the account. What is going on here?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.
You should ask in the dealing with debt collectors thread. The first thing they will tell you to do is dispute the item on your credit report.

T.S. Smelliot
Apr 23, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
Thanks a lot, I'll try there.

Bad Roy
Jan 29, 2008

Animals are like humans, always being dicks.
Looking for some advice. I'm in London, UK and signed a contract on a flat share room on the 28th of August. On the 7th of September, we received a letter to the house saying a repossession order had been granted and we should expect to be evicted soon. Turns out that the letting agents have an ongoing (over a year) legal battle going on about their right to rent these flats and that this repossession order was granted on the 21st of August, a week before I signed a 12 month contract. They have informed me that they are still contesting this and only now have they hired solicitors for the case. Have the agents breached contract by not informing me of this ongoing legal situation and the repossession order being granted, even if they intended to contend it? This place has been no end of trouble already and I've only been here two weeks. If they HAVE breached contract, I'm going to demand my deposit back and get the gently caress out of dodge. Any help would be massively appreciated.

If it adds any further weight to my case against them, our boiler set off the carbon monoxide alarms last night and as far as the engineer could see, it had been deemed a risk last year and unusable but it appears the letting agents never saw fit to get it fixed.

Bad Roy fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Sep 9, 2012

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Bad Roy posted:

Looking for some advice. I'm in London, UK and signed a contract on a flat share room on the 28th of August. On the 7th of September, we received a letter to the house saying a repossession order had been granted and we should expect to be evicted soon. Turns out that the letting agents have an ongoing (over a year) legal battle going on about their right to rent these flats and that this repossession order was granted on the 21st of August, a week before I signed a 12 month contract. They have informed me that they are still contesting this and only now have they hired solicitors for the case. Have the agents breached contract by not informing me of this ongoing legal situation and the repossession order being granted, even if they intended to contend it? This place has been no end of trouble already and I've only been here two weeks. If they HAVE breached contract, I'm going to demand my deposit back and get the gently caress out of dodge. Any help would be massively appreciated.

They made a negligent misrepresentation by ommission to induce you to enter into a contract which you would not have done otherwise.

You are entitled to declare the contract void and demand return of your lease.

Bad Roy
Jan 29, 2008

Animals are like humans, always being dicks.

Alchenar posted:

They made a negligent misrepresentation by ommission to induce you to enter into a contract which you would not have done otherwise.

You are entitled to declare the contract void and demand return of your lease.

Thank you. This is what I assumed, albeit in layman's terms and with a lot of swearing involved. I'm going to speak to the citizen's advice bureau tomorrow, so hopefully they'll be able to back me up.

Doorknob Slobber
Sep 10, 2006

by Fluffdaddy
Washington state, no fan in bathroom on rental unit, only one openable window in the entire apartment. We are moving out and the landlord is showing the house and complaining that we are responsible for any sort of "smells". It smells mildewy because the apartment has poor ventilation.

They are threatening that we are responsible for any "lost rent" from them not being able to rent it immediately after we have moved out also they demand that we remove "clutter" but we are in the process of moving and packing. What are our rights? Can the landlord demand that we "clean up our clutter" when we are moving? Can we tell them just to wait until we move out to start looking for new tenants?

I read that it might be possible to sue them for not having the building up to code from the point we signed the lease which is a year plus, if thats true I probably might not do it, but I would like to be able to threaten that I will so that they will gently caress off.

Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Sep 10, 2012

dyehead
Nov 28, 2008
Greetings lawyer goons..

Prepare yourselves, it's a long one.. Roofing contractor rip-off.

I'll preface this with the following: I'm more than happy to pay for the work that was performed -- I'm not willing to be taken advantage of by contractors who think that just because I don't work in the industry that I don't understand how the industry works. My wife and I did not live at the house during the construction, but visited frequently.

My wife and I recently purchased a home and have been undergoing remodeling for almost 3 months. During this process we had a roofer come out to replace some roof components that had wasted away after 25 years (the paper underneath the tile) and to check for leaks, etc. He gave us a written estimate/contract for the work to be done. We also had damaged fascia on a few corners of the roof that were not a part of the original contract. He labeled these as #2 in the contract and here is a direct quote:

"2. Dryrot/Termite Wood Labor & Material - Work performed and estimate provided once roof is removed. This method is the only way to assess the extent and nature of work needed.
Labor - $59.50 an hour per man Material - Cost + 20% itemized"

The purpose of this estimate would have been to let us know whether we wanted the roofer to do it, or whether to have our painter do it (who was much cheaper and had already replaced fascia around the house but was hesitant to touch the roof until the tiles were off)

So, without further ado, the entire span of work was completed over a span of 8 or 9 days. We never received an estimate for the change order portion of the job, they just went ahead and replaced the fascia. They also unilaterally decided to replace around 50 roof tiles. The combined total for the change order (#2 on the contract) work came out to be 76 hours over 8 days, and $5100. That was literally $800 more than the initial contract work cost.

I have paid him for the contract work but was in utter disbelief about the change order work. He came by and explained about how much wood they'd bought/primed, showed me the areas they worked on, so on and so forth. None of this added up to 76 hours to me. I was also charged 2.5 hours for the boss to come by and deliver materials (Since when is that Labor? Your mis-management and lack of preparation are not my responsibility to pay for) My painter also pointed out that the wood they brought to the project was pre-primed wood purchased from the Home Depot. I am currently awaiting copies of the receipts for the wood to verify whether it was pre-primed wood or not. If it was pre-primed, this is setting the stage for this guy to be a liar... just evidence gathering here.

I have another contractor (previously mentioned painter) who was also working on my home during the duration of the roof work who claims that the roofers showed up around 9am every day, and except for 2 days, left around 3pm. Doing the math tells me that's pretty much 6 hours a day per man. The time sheets provided to me show 9 hours per day per man. Had I known this before the Roof contractor left i would have brought it up, but my painter told me after he overheard our discussion (which was after the roofer left) The painter is willing to go to court and testify if need be that the guys were not there for 9 hours a day. If they had been, they would have arrived at 9am and left at 6:30pm (I'm not paying labor for their lunch break). My painter locked up every day at 5pm.

This guy has threatened to 'go legal' on me 3 times, and is using his '30 years in the industry' as an excuse why I'm stupid and he's in the right. When he came to my house, he refused to look me in the eyes while discussing this disagreement. He agreed to knock off $1000 from the price if we would agree to pay in cash. We told him we would let him know before last Friday whether that was acceptable or not.

We received an invoice from his office Friday (after I attempted to call him) in which he reneged on the deal and only offered a $275 discount. This of course infuriated me. I contacted his office and laid out point by point how I felt I had been cheated. I had not heard back on the subject until my GC contacted me this afternoon to tell me that he is willing to go back to the $1000 discount and accept payment by check.

My wife and I are both pretty incensed that this guy has the gall to lie to our faces, defend his employees who are obviously lying to him. Even with $1000 off we feel that he's still taking advantage of us, and that had we known the price up front we would have utilized our painter instead and that he knew he'd lose the job if he were up front with us. Our thought is that just by him not providing an estimate for the work to be done (which was a part of the initial contract), that he's on shaky ground to demand money from us in the first place.

We just want to know how defensible our position is were he to take us to court. Any help would be tremendously appreciated here!

TLDR: Contractor cheating us, lying about hours worked, materials bought, did not provide promised estimate before secondary work began, gave us huge bill afterwards.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

You are in the realm of money where you should go see a lawyer. Get a local one and he/she will probably know the contractor and how they work.

bigpolar
Jun 19, 2003

dyehead posted:

TLDR: Contractor cheating us, lying about hours worked, materials bought, did not provide promised estimate before secondary work began, gave us huge bill afterwards.

Getting lawyers and going to court is going to cost you both a lot of money. If this contractor knows what he is doing, he has filed paperwork for a mechanic's lien (or your state's equivalent) and he can make your life pretty annoying.

Trying once to negotiate without a lawyer probably won't cost you any money. I would write up your own amended invoice, with the corrected hours, and throw in $1500 on top of it as an inducement to settle. If he won't take it get ready to hire a lawyer, in most states a mechanic's lien can be used to force sale of the house to pay the debt.

crime fighting hog
Jun 29, 2006

I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out
Hey guys, have a question and google isn't helping me very much.

I live in Omaha, Nebraska. I have a friend who used to live in Madison County in Nebraska. He had some fines, namely traffic related and minor stuff. He doesn't have a real criminal record.

He moved away five years ago for a job in Texas. He wants to move back to Madison county to be with family. He called me since I work with some courts in my area and asked if I could find out if he has any other fines beyond the ones he took care of before he left Madison. I said I would try to find out.

I'm having trouble finding out. I usually go to the courthouse itself and search criminal histories and stuff, but what he's asking is across the state.

Could I just call and inquire about my friend, or will he or I have to show up in person to find out what he owes and if he has any warrants for unpaid fines, etc?

Sorry if this is the wrong thread!

Discussion Quorum
Dec 5, 2002
Armchair Philistine
A friend of mine just experienced some :banjo: Louisiana justice :banjo: while visiting my wonderful home state. To make a long story short, he was arrested and charged under a catch-all "disorderly person" statute after annoying a local casino manager (he was assaulted by another patron and wanted to press charges against the manager's wishes).

At trial, he plead it down to a lesser offense ("staying on the premises after being asked to leave" or some such). He had to pay a $100 fine and the judge banned him from the city for life.

I realize that contempt of court is incredibly broad, but can a judge really ride someone out on a rail like that?

reyalsnogard
Jul 16, 2004
chown -R us ~/base
Sorry for the delay. I am the absentee landlord, I do have legal representation (now), and my particular landlord/tenant issue has been slow-going for multiple factors outside my control.

woozle wuzzle posted:

It'd help if you just spit out the drat problem instead of talking around it.
Sometimes I tend to be more concise and obtuse than I intend to be. Basic outline:

1. (day 0) Contractor repairs property so it's in prime condition.
2. (day ~30) Tenants obtain keys and move in; lease begins.
3. (day ~75) Forty-five (45) days after lease begins, tenants return unsigned move-in checklist via fax.
3a. Checklist reports damage which, per #1, was only recently fixed and for which I have an invoice.
3b. Checklist contains ambiguous terms like "some stains" (carpet) and "some dents" (walls) w/o mentioning location [beyond the checklist's own per-room breakdown], or degree of damage (e.g., is it an imperceptible scuff or a softball-sized dent).

What I'm curious about is the admissibility of this self-reported checklist for multiple reasons:
I. Checklist was delivered ~38 days after the explicit 7 day window before the tenant accepts "... full responsibility for the current condition of the property ..."
II. Checklist was not signed or dated by tenant, PM, or myself. The only timestamp is the fax header.
III. Checklist contains at least one item which, per recent invoices (see #3a and #1 above), includes damage which was recently fixed. From personal knowledge of the property, Occam's razor suggests several of these damages were caused by the tenant moving in.

If it comes down to a they-said-I-said dispute, how can I avoid an "SOL lol" judgement? Does someone throwing catch-all "some (stains|dents)" into a checklist provide carte blanche? What can/should I be doing to, where appropriate, undermine the defensibility of this ambiguous (or falsified; see #3a and #1) checklist?

I know most goons have an inverse situation (e.g., "my landlord is poo poo and billing me for non-damage!"). However, I'm not such a landlord, I'm not trying to nickel-and-dime, I'm not sueing for lost rent while the unit is off-the-market for repairs, but I am seeking insight into how I can counter a tenant who was either purposefully (or clumsily) both destructive and ambiguous.

Again, I do have legal counsel but IANAL. I appreciate the insight fellow goons provide so that I may create better, informed questions for when I do consult w/ my lawyer.

Thanks!

woozle wuzzle
Mar 10, 2012

crime fighting hog posted:

Could I just call and inquire about my friend, or will he or I have to show up in person to find out what he owes and if he has any warrants for unpaid fines, etc?
Most courts I've dealt with are friendly to phone calls and would take the time to get you those answers. But they might be hesitant to talk to you about it. I say give him the number and tell his lazy rear end to make the call :)

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

Reyal, thank you for the more detailed set of facts. That said, all of your questions are perfect questions for your lawyer - they're going to have a better grasp of the facts and how they interact with the relevant law than we will. Are they not responding to your questions?

I'm not saying that to be an rear end in a top hat, it's just that things like the best way to undermine the opposing party's argument or piece of evidence are at the core of your attorney's litigation strategy. I'd go out on a limb and say that you doing anything to attack their evidence might be counter-productive. For instance, if you did anything at this point to destroy incriminating evidence which might confirm their "move-in list", you'd get yourself in more trouble.

As far as things to do before you meet with your attorney? Gather all the relevant data, evidence, and information. All your personal notes on the topic, all documentation of communication by either party (formal or informal - email, texts, letters, IMs, etc), all photos of the premises (both before they moved in, after they moved in, and after they moved out), a list of any of your employees or people you hired who saw the premises, etc. Bring copies and give that to your lawyer. Your attorney should already have asked about all that, but it's good to double-check.

crime fighting hog
Jun 29, 2006

I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out

woozle wuzzle posted:

Most courts I've dealt with are friendly to phone calls and would take the time to get you those answers. But they might be hesitant to talk to you about it. I say give him the number and tell his lazy rear end to make the call :)

Wonderful, thank you!

iSheep
Feb 5, 2006

by R. Guyovich
Preface: I am not in any legal trouble. This is a general question.

Recently we had a ban placed on target shoooting


(Click for big)

Linked here is the map posted out by Utah Lake indicating areas of ban. I had a friend out by the lake on Saturday, and he observed a Sheriff stopping people on roads of the private land because of posted "No Trespass" signs. Specifically on the roads "Little Cove" and "Big Cove" However a majority of the areas that are still allowed for target shooting are ONLY accessible via driving through private land or a banned area.

Are we lawfully allowed to drive through private land to reach state or BLM land for the purpose of recreation? The signage posted is a bit misleading because the private property behind it is only a small portion of the land.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

iSheep posted:

Are we lawfully allowed to drive through private land to reach state or BLM land for the purpose of recreation?

If the road is a public road, yes. Otherwise, not without the permission of the landowner

iSheep
Feb 5, 2006

by R. Guyovich

joat mon posted:

If the road is a public road, yes. Otherwise, not without the permission of the landowner

Hm. Any way I can find out if a road is public or not?

My concern is that it seems to me the county placed these signs just so they could hand out tickets with no effort needed. All we have for the owner of the private land is a name and its not enough for us to try and get in contact.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride

joat mon posted:

If the road is a public road, yes. Otherwise, not without the permission of the landowner

Could there be an easement on it? Or is that what you mean by a public road?

xxEightxx
Mar 5, 2010

Oh, it's true. You are Brock Landers!
Salad Prong

iSheep posted:

Hm. Any way I can find out if a road is public or not?

My concern is that it seems to me the county placed these signs just so they could hand out tickets with no effort needed. All we have for the owner of the private land is a name and its not enough for us to try and get in contact.

We have a similar situation in CA, where all beaches are public but the rich and famous have bought large blocks of private land that make defacto private beaches. Access corridors that are supposed to be open by law are closed, blocked or otherwise not accessible. Local police supports the residents because they are rich and famous, which means that it often ends up being the CA coastal commission or other public interest group taking on the homeowners and or demanding enforcement\compliance with the law.

http://www.utahlakecommission.org/5.1_Recreation.pdf seems to indicate there are public access routes available at mile marker 13 and 19. It is one thing to have these access routes available and not use them, but it is another to have the access routes blocked and/or inaccessable.

ed: but without more, no you cannot access private land to reach a public destination. The above presumes you are going to the lakeshore for gun firing.

iSheep
Feb 5, 2006

by R. Guyovich
Yeah I have been exchanging emails with somebody from the county and they also said that we could pass if there was an easement on private land. But didn't tell me if there was in fact, an easement.

The :tinfoil: in me thinks that the private land is owned by the county/state and they are actively trying to push shooters out of that area.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride

iSheep posted:

Yeah I have been exchanging emails with somebody from the county and they also said that we could pass if there was an easement on private land. But didn't tell me if there was in fact, an easement.

The :tinfoil: in me thinks that the private land is owned by the county/state and they are actively trying to push shooters out of that area.

I'm trying to search the land records but Utah county's website is barely responding, so I'm not even sure what level of records they have online. At this rate I'll get bored and forget, but you can try doing it yourself.

http://www.co.utah.ut.us/

edit: oh, godaddy is being ddos'd, so that's probably the problem. Good hosting choice Utah county

Dogen fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Sep 10, 2012

iSheep
Feb 5, 2006

by R. Guyovich

Dogen posted:

I'm trying to search the land records but Utah county's website is barely responding, so I'm not even sure what level of records they have online. At this rate I'll get bored and forget, but you can try doing it yourself.

http://www.co.utah.ut.us/

Yeah I found a java based map that runs as well as... Well... Any gov. sanctioned website would.

But thanks for the advice guys, its helped a bit.

bigpolar
Jun 19, 2003

Morris posted:

A friend of mine just experienced some :banjo: Louisiana justice :banjo: while visiting my wonderful home state. To make a long story short, he was arrested and charged under a catch-all "disorderly person" statute after annoying a local casino manager (he was assaulted by another patron and wanted to press charges against the manager's wishes).

At trial, he plead it down to a lesser offense ("staying on the premises after being asked to leave" or some such). He had to pay a $100 fine and the judge banned him from the city for life.

I realize that contempt of court is incredibly broad, but can a judge really ride someone out on a rail like that?

I'm not a lawyer, but as a Louisiana resident I can assure you that as a practical matter this will stick. They won't hunt him or monitor him, but if he is arrested in your town for anything else, he'll be jailed and fined for contempt in addition to whatever else he gets tagged for. Unless he has enough money to hire enough political clout to fight that judge, I would tell him to keep out of trouble if he ever comes back.

Louisiana isn't like the rest of the country, the law means nothing if you have political connections. Someone in that casino either donated money to some organization important to the judge (like his reelection fund, or his office football pool) or they comp him a lot at the casino, or (not surprising here) they outright bribe him.

Your friend should have played the game: If the management didn't want him to press charges, you say "ok, but this rear end in a top hat rear end in a top hat ruined my night, (or my suit or whatever), what about that?" And you give them the chance to make you happy. New clothes, medical care, free chips,etc. would most likely have been offered instead of a trespassing charge. The manager wouldn't have objected if he didn't have a reason to protect the other guy. He was expecting you to play along and you fought the system. You can't do that in Louisiana unless you have at least some juice.

Unless you can get national attention, a simple "good lawyer" won't be able to help. You need a crooked, connected lawyer who will spread money around on his behalf. The legal system here really likes to fleece anyone from out of state. Good luck.

One more thing, I'll bet you that within 2 weeks any charges against the guy who assaulted your friend will be dropped. Keep checking his case and see. This can be a crappy place to visit if you don't know the rules.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Dogen posted:

Could there be an easement on it? Or is that what you mean by a public road?

I meant publicly maintained, but the 'public road' definition is broader than that, to include easements. It's a mess.
http://www.utahlanduse.org/images/custom/Public%20Roads%20on%20Private%20Lands.pdf

iSheep, do you think any local shooting organizations would know of some good alternate shooting areas? (and how to get there)

iSheep
Feb 5, 2006

by R. Guyovich

joat mon posted:

I meant publicly maintained, but the 'public road' definition is broader than that, to include easements. It's a mess.
http://www.utahlanduse.org/images/custom/Public%20Roads%20on%20Private%20Lands.pdf

iSheep, do you think any local shooting organizations would know of some good alternate shooting areas? (and how to get there)

Besides all the regulated indoor/outdoor ranges... People tend to keep their shooting spots a secret. Kind of annoying.

I seem to have a few people from the county and BLM working with me right now. There ARE alternate ways to get to the land surrounding that area but they can be cumbersome especially if you don't have a big fuckoff truck.

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Incredulous Red
Mar 25, 2008

bigpolar posted:

I'm not a lawyer, but as a Louisiana resident I can assure you that as a practical matter this will stick. They won't hunt him or monitor him, but if he is arrested in your town for anything else, he'll be jailed and fined for contempt in addition to whatever else he gets tagged for. Unless he has enough money to hire enough political clout to fight that judge, I would tell him to keep out of trouble if he ever comes back.

Louisiana isn't like the rest of the country, the law means nothing if you have political connections. Someone in that casino either donated money to some organization important to the judge (like his reelection fund, or his office football pool) or they comp him a lot at the casino, or (not surprising here) they outright bribe him.

Your friend should have played the game: If the management didn't want him to press charges, you say "ok, but this rear end in a top hat rear end in a top hat ruined my night, (or my suit or whatever), what about that?" And you give them the chance to make you happy. New clothes, medical care, free chips,etc. would most likely have been offered instead of a trespassing charge. The manager wouldn't have objected if he didn't have a reason to protect the other guy. He was expecting you to play along and you fought the system. You can't do that in Louisiana unless you have at least some juice.

Unless you can get national attention, a simple "good lawyer" won't be able to help. You need a crooked, connected lawyer who will spread money around on his behalf. The legal system here really likes to fleece anyone from out of state. Good luck.

One more thing, I'll bet you that within 2 weeks any charges against the guy who assaulted your friend will be dropped. Keep checking his case and see. This can be a crappy place to visit if you don't know the rules.

So... how much money would take for a yankee to buy his way into the Louisiana elite?

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