Warhammer: After 18 years, finally an end

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Warhammer: After 18 years, finally an end

Cat Planet: Jun 26, 2010

This goes into the realm of fan wankery but if I have to guess, the progenoids can only be extracted once since they mature together with the Space Marine. Like, they get implanted into an aspirant as he grows into an Astartes and goes through all sorts of genetic fuckery. So maybe this process can happen only once per Marine.

I mean, the 40k universe is full of plot holes because GW wrote a lot of poo poo that sounded cool at the time into Rogue Trader and then went "Oh blimey, we actually have to keep the lore consistant. And grimdark."

(Also yes, Swallow is pretty bad. He wrote Eisenstein which is the second worst HH novel after the Abyss)

Cat Planet fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Sep 11, 2012

# ? Sep 11, 2012 02:04

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 8, 2024 21:26

berzerkmonkey: Jul 23, 2003

Mowglis Haircut posted:

Amazon is generally about �2-3 cheaper for BL books in the UK, it might be the same US.

They usually are, but even so, BL is still raising prices by a considerable amount. And looking at Amazon, they're listing retail for the books at $14, so the discount only brings them down to BL retail anyway.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 02:25

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

It's possible it works either way. It doesn't matter, anyway.

Progenoids exist because somebody asked where Space Marines come from, and there needs to be a plausible reason why they're so rare and aren't just being cranked out by the billions.

In fluff, honestly, probably half the chapters don't really know how they work either, and even the other half is pretty fuzzy on the details beyond what they've learned by rote and ritual from 10,000 years ago. And probably the slow maturation is a safety feature designed into the marines from the start to make sure that once the Emperor stopped the initial creation process for the legions, they would be able to independently replace losses from battle so as to be self-sufficient, but no-one could ever make their own legion in any reasonable amount of time without the technical secrets for mass-production of gene-seed that are known only to the Emperor. I believe the book Deliverance Lost in part revolves around this.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 02:35

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

^^^^
Storm of Iron also has a geneseed repository raid IIRC.

EyeRChris posted:

Would love to read a story about a Khorne follower who is cold and calculating. That his subtle actions cause world wide conflict and greater fighting than a single person could do on their on.

...*Cough*
I mean blood for blood god! Skulls for Skull Throne! Souls for the soul eater!!!

IIRC the Konrad fantasy series had a few, but they're *very* oldschool. There's also the various Blood Pact characters that get to interact with the Ghosts and it's strongly implied that Heritor Asphodel is basically a mad scientist who just happens to enjoy making hideous murder machines.

Degenerate Star posted:

So I was reading one of James Swallows' Blood Angels books, and one of the plot points was that the Flesh Tearers and BA are running low on Marines, though for different reasons.

According to the various wikis, the Progenoid glands are mature at 5 or 10 years, depending on which one. However, they only harvest them when the Marine dies. Is there a reason they can't take them out every decade and put in new ones? It takes awhile to make new Marines, sure, but if there's enough gene-seed and enough hardcore humans out there to put them in, shouldn't they be able to keep up a steady supply?

Or is that just another angst-producing plot device? "These noble Marines, who are raged-out and possibly cannibal killers most of the time, are tragically doomed! Because they totally are."

"These other ones just killed each other in a civil war, so they just want to borrow some Space Marines from their relatives, and maybe also some cash."

Also, Swallow is terrible. "Rafn"? Really?

IIRC the Flesh Tearers are just waaaaay too into getting stuck in to every fight they can, and both them and the Blood Angels have a tendancy to die horribly during implantation. IIRC they can take one progenoid out of every marine, so technically you get an extra marine if you harvest the corpses.

Also Rafn is a Danish/Icelandic surname. I used to know a guy who went by it.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 02:38

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Degenerate Star posted:

So I was reading one of James Swallows' Blood Angels books, and one of the plot points was that the Flesh Tearers and BA are running low on Marines, though for different reasons.

According to the various wikis, the Progenoid glands are mature at 5 or 10 years, depending on which one. However, they only harvest them when the Marine dies. Is there a reason they can't take them out every decade and put in new ones? It takes awhile to make new Marines, sure, but if there's enough gene-seed and enough hardcore humans out there to put them in, shouldn't they be able to keep up a steady supply?

Or is that just another angst-producing plot device? "These noble Marines, who are raged-out and possibly cannibal killers most of the time, are tragically doomed! Because they totally are."

"These other ones just killed each other in a civil war, so they just want to borrow some Space Marines from their relatives, and maybe also some cash."

Also, Swallow is terrible. "Rafn"? Really?

Well yes, in theory there isn't anything that is stopping your from growing a marine for 10 years, killing him, then growing 2 for 10 years, killing them, etc, getting an exponential increase in geneseed and creating a massive number of space marines. A mere 200 years would give you a million marines, 300 years a billion, and 400 would give you a trillion. Both make plenty of sense for the Imperium or Chaos, they work on long time scales. It would be slower than the rapidgrowth techniques they have attempted before, but without the unstables problems that arise from fast growth.

But the problem there is that the Imperium would be poo poo its pants terrified of 1 trillion space marines running around, and Chaos doesn't have the infrastructure to arm, armor, and transport that many space marines. In fact, the Imperium probably doesn't either.

And out of universe, it is an "I win" button for the Imperium, and GW won't upset that balance.

I've always wondered if that was how the Emperor first grew his legions, and if so, is that what he had planned for the primarchs - build 20, find the best out of it, kill the others, kill the 1 and use that to kick start your exponentially growing army of supermen. It would certainly be a good reason for one of the primarchs to turn to Chaos.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 04:27

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

Fried Chicken posted:

Well yes, in theory there isn't anything that is stopping your from growing a marine for 10 years, killing him, then growing 2 for 10 years, killing them, etc, getting an exponential increase in geneseed and creating a massive number of space marines. A mere 200 years would give you a million marines, 300 years a billion, and 400 would give you a trillion. Both make plenty of sense for the Imperium or Chaos, they work on long time scales. It would be slower than the rapidgrowth techniques they have attempted before, but without the unstables problems that arise from fast growth.

But the problem there is that the Imperium would be poo poo its pants terrified of 1 trillion space marines running around, and Chaos doesn't have the infrastructure to arm, armor, and transport that many space marines. In fact, the Imperium probably doesn't either.

And out of universe, it is an "I win" button for the Imperium, and GW won't upset that balance.

I've always wondered if that was how the Emperor first grew his legions, and if so, is that what he had planned for the primarchs - build 20, find the best out of it, kill the others, kill the 1 and use that to kick start your exponentially growing army of supermen. It would certainly be a good reason for one of the primarchs to turn to Chaos.

The Imperium already does that, more or less, except the universe is pretty good at killing marines anyway. Where do you think they get new chapters from? Your plan also ignores the enormous amount of time and resources it takes to culture the gene-seed from a single progenoid into usable implants, as well as the fact that the success rate for implantation is not particularly high, and that the creation process itself takes a huge amount of time and resources. So while it takes 5-10 years for a fully matured and implanted marine to produce a useful progenoid, getting from a progenoid to a new marine takes an unknown but likely quite long time and tons of resources.

You're trying to math stuff out, but you've failed to completely grasp the whole picture. There are plenty of silly plot holes and head-scratchers in 40k, but this is not one of them.

The Emperor first grew his legions using special techniques for the mass-productiob of gene-seed, which he then locked away. Alternatively, he did the thing you propose except he didn't kill them afterwards because that would be stupid.

There were 20 primarchs because the Emperor intended to conquer and unite an entire galaxy's worth of humanity. The Emperor is still just one man, which is why he created the primarchs to delegate the enormous task of the great crusade, with each primarch given a unique set of talents and approaches to war. It's sometimes implied, depending on the fluff, that the Space Marines themselves are an offshoot of the Primarchs project that was green-lighted only after the Primarchs themselves were lost, but this is one of those hazy areas that GW doesn't really care about clarifying.

OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Sep 11, 2012

# ? Sep 11, 2012 04:51

Kegslayer: Jul 23, 2007

They could easily increase the number of space marines and they do everytime they see a hole that needs filling from the various foundings to raising marine chapters for specific martial roles. They're also suppose to keep all the different Imperial forces in balance so drastically uppping the number of space marines is a definite no no especially since certain space marine chapters are notoriously independent not to mention difficult to manage.

I am not surprised at the Black Library price increase. GW and even the Black Library prices sometimes have been ridiculous (did anyone here pick up Aurelian?) but I doubt that's going to change considering that people will still buy it. Especially with the trade embargo in place you have items such as the next HH mini novel, Brotherhood of the Storm, being priced at $70AUD (which is about $72US or �45GBP) and that's not including postage.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 05:14

MisterFuzzles: Dec 5, 2009; We can't go back no more, but I suppose we can go wherever we please.

Whats even crazier is the fact Brotherhood of the Storms a novella, not a full novel. Same with Aurellian I believe. I don't care who writes it, not worth it.

Well about half way though Treacheries of the Space Marine. As with any collection the quality varies. First 2 by Matt Farrer and David Annadale were good. One after that was meh and the one I am on now is so so. ADBs is next so well see how that turns out.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 05:52

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Cream_Filling posted:

The Imperium already does that, more or less, except the universe is pretty good at killing marines anyway. Where do you think they get new chapters from?

The create them from the tithed geneseed, stored under the polar caps of Terra. They do not fast grow it - the ones who try are individuals like Corax, and fast growing doesn't work out well.

quote:

Your plan also ignores the enormous amount of time

No, I specifically called out the time. A few hundred years is nothing when you operated on the tens of thousands.

quote:

and resources it takes to culture the gene-seed from a single progenoid into usable implants,

Individuals destroy dozens of planets to distract a single enemy. The resources this would require are nothing to the Imperium. The limit would come in for arming, armoring, and transporting them once they are grown, and being piss yourself scared at more space marines than Horus had running around. which I said in my first bit.

quote:

as well as the fact that the success rate for implantation is not particularly high, and that the creation process itself takes a huge amount of time and resources.

The bulk of which is tied up in the mental conditioning and training. They talk about it in The Emperor's Gift and the Night Lords trilogy, it is the conditioning, training, and adult rejection that causes the high failure rate. Given we are just growing and harvesting to build up the stock of geneseed you don't need to worry about those issues. You only need to deal with training, conditioning, and adult rejection of the final generation.

quote:

So while it takes 5-10 years for a fully matured and implanted marine to produce a useful progenoid, getting from a progenoid to a new marine takes an unknown but likely quite long time and tons of resources.

Nah. 10 years.

Though I will cop that I screwed up my math and did 10 years total, instead of 10 years from when the prognoids develop. The doubling time should be 16 years.

quote:

You're trying to math stuff out, but you've failed to completely grasp the whole picture. There are plenty of silly plot holes and head-scratchers in 40k, but this is not one of them.

Really? Because I pretty sure that after I "mathed it out" correctly, I then pointed out the big picture reason, both in-universe and why it really doesn't happen.

quote:

The Emperor first grew his legions using special techniques for the mass-productiob of gene-seed, which he then locked away. Alternatively, he did the thing you propose except he didn't kill them afterwards because that would be stupid.

So he harvested it from them, (which kills them) but didn't kill them. Right. And the Imperium would never wantonly slaughter a ton of people for a military advantage, right? Like you said, that would be stupid.

Man, imagine if there was like a whole 40k army built around the idea of wantonly slaughtering people like they were some kind of ablative meat shield for vehicles. You'd need some kind of political officer to keep them from running away.

quote:

There were 20 primarchs because the Emperor intended to conquer and unite an entire galaxy's worth of humanity. The Emperor is still just one man, which is why he created the primarchs to delegate the enormous task of the great crusade, with each primarch given a unique set of talents and approaches to war. It's sometimes implied, depending on the fluff, that the Space Marines themselves are an offshoot of the Primarchs project that was green-lighted only after the Primarchs themselves were lost, but this is one of those hazy areas that GW doesn't really care about clarifying.

So it isn't clear, but you know what the plan really is.
His creation of the legions was a backup after he lost the primarchs. I was speculating about what Plan A might have been and some writing ideas it would promote.

Seriously, I'm aware of why that isn't a true plot hole in universe. I'm aware of why GW would never do it. I explained all of this in the post you quoted. But your response is amazing for its combination of stuff that just isn't true and being condescending as all get out.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 06:00

Degenerate Star: Oct 27, 2005; unlikely

I'm not sure why they'd have to killl the Marine to get the glands out, considering all the other, often completely hosed up, medical procedures done routinely in 40K. If it could be taken out after maturation, with the Marine left alive, it would be available for the next poor recruit a lot sooner than if they had to wait years for the Marine to die in battle.

Also, 'Rafn' may be real, but as a name for our tortured hero with en emotionally scarring backstory, it sounds like something out of bad fanfiction.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 06:29

Nephilm: Jun 11, 2009; by Lowtax

Chest progenoid can be extracted without much issue, but I've never heard of the neck one extracted prior to death.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 06:41

White Noise Marine: Apr 14, 2010

Nephilm posted:

Chest progenoid can be extracted without much issue, but I've never heard of the neck one extracted prior to death.

If I remember correctly in "Legion of the Damned" the Excoriators remove their geneseed and send it away on their spaceship, and continue on with the battle.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 07:27

Demiurge4: Aug 10, 2011

Degenerate Star posted:

So I was reading one of James Swallows' Blood Angels books, and one of the plot points was that the Flesh Tearers and BA are running low on Marines, though for different reasons.

According to the various wikis, the Progenoid glands are mature at 5 or 10 years, depending on which one. However, they only harvest them when the Marine dies. Is there a reason they can't take them out every decade and put in new ones? It takes awhile to make new Marines, sure, but if there's enough gene-seed and enough hardcore humans out there to put them in, shouldn't they be able to keep up a steady supply?

Or is that just another angst-producing plot device? "These noble Marines, who are raged-out and possibly cannibal killers most of the time, are tragically doomed! Because they totally are."

"These other ones just killed each other in a civil war, so they just want to borrow some Space Marines from their relatives, and maybe also some cash."

Also, Swallow is terrible. "Rafn"? Really?

I think you extract 2 from each marine. One can be removed when its matured, but the other can only be removed from a dead marine since taking it out would kill him.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 11:02

berzerkmonkey: Jul 23, 2003

Demiurge4 posted:

I think you extract 2 from each marine. One can be removed when its matured, but the other can only be removed from a dead marine since taking it out would kill him.

I think this is correct and I remember reading something to this effect some time back. In this fashion, a chapter can be assured of actually being able to grow, rather than simply stagnate and replace Marines on a one-to-one basis as the old ones die off. Or worse - being condemned to a slow extinction due to situations where the Progenoid gland is unrecoverable.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 13:41

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

Fried Chicken posted:

The create them from the tithed geneseed, stored under the polar caps of Terra. They do not fast grow it - the ones who try are individuals like Corax, and fast growing doesn't work out well.

You missed the joke.

Fried Chicken posted:

No, I specifically called out the time. A few hundred years is nothing when you operated on the tens of thousands.
Individuals destroy dozens of planets to distract a single enemy. The resources this would require are nothing to the Imperium. The limit would come in for arming, armoring, and transporting them once they are grown, and being piss yourself scared at more space marines than Horus had running around. which I said in my first bit.
The bulk of which is tied up in the mental conditioning and training. They talk about it in The Emperor's Gift and the Night Lords trilogy, it is the conditioning, training, and adult rejection that causes the high failure rate. Given we are just growing and harvesting to build up the stock of geneseed you don't need to worry about those issues. You only need to deal with training, conditioning, and adult rejection of the final generation.
Nah. 10 years.

Though I will cop that I screwed up my math and did 10 years total, instead of 10 years from when the prognoids develop. The doubling time should be 16 years.
Really? Because I pretty sure that after I "mathed it out" correctly, I then pointed out the big picture reason, both in-universe and why it really doesn't happen.

You still don't know how long it takes to culture the organs from progenoids, making your calculation incomplete. Very little is known about the actual work of creating a marine, but one of the books you cite actually explicitly talks about high rates of organ rejection, so even from a purely fluff standpoint, you're wrong. You also miss the real big picture reason which is that your idea isn't cool and sounds stupid the way you presented it.

Fried Chicken posted:

So it isn't clear, but you know what the plan really is.
His creation of the legions was a backup after he lost the primarchs. I was speculating about what Plan A might have been and some writing ideas it would promote.

Seriously, I'm aware of why that isn't a true plot hole in universe. I'm aware of why GW would never do it. I explained all of this in the post you quoted. But your response is amazing for its combination of stuff that just isn't true and being condescending as all get out.

Your speculation is stupid and you're stupid. How's that?

I can't tell if you're trying to be cute with math and doing the standard dumb thing of thinking 40k is science-fiction (it's not), or if you actually think this fits thematically with the rest of the universe. Either way, it's a stupid thing to discuss and the way you presented it, as if it were some giant plot hole that you dissected by your mastery of maths, was bad. Exponential growth is something basically everyone understands, and there's a lot of reasons why you don't actually see it in real life, too.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 13:55

Big Willy Style: Feb 11, 2007; How many Astartes do you know that roll like this?

Kegslayer posted:

They could easily increase the number of space marines and they do everytime they see a hole that needs filling from the various foundings to raising marine chapters for specific martial roles. They're also suppose to keep all the different Imperial forces in balance so drastically uppping the number of space marines is a definite no no especially since certain space marine chapters are notoriously independent not to mention difficult to manage.

I am not surprised at the Black Library price increase. GW and even the Black Library prices sometimes have been ridiculous (did anyone here pick up Aurelian?) but I doubt that's going to change considering that people will still buy it. Especially with the trade embargo in place you have items such as the next HH mini novel, Brotherhood of the Storm, being priced at $70AUD (which is about $72US or �45GBP) and that's not including postage.

The embargo doesn't apply to BL books. I buy my books from thebookdepository.co.uk for anywhere between $8-$12 for the paperbacks.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 14:15

Nephilm: Jun 11, 2009; by Lowtax

AFAIK the idea is that they use recovered progenoids on test tube bodies to grow the organs which they'll then implant on prospective marines. I guess you could technically use the same process solely to replicate progenoids in the case of extreme losses, but it's still a time-consuming affair, and since gene-seed is something that quantifiably matures and changes as it goes from marine to marine, keeping it locked to mass produce is probably a big no-no.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 19:47

Kegslayer: Jul 23, 2007

Big Willy Style posted:

The embargo doesn't apply to BL books. I buy my books from thebookdepository.co.uk for anywhere between $8-$12 for the paperbacks.

Sorry mate but I'm pretty sure it applies to the exclusive ones, like the novellas. That being said, book depository is a great place to buy from with free shipping, numerous discount codes and the ability to preorder some of the BL stuff. Too bad they stopped shipping the little bookmarks, they were pretty nifty.

# ? Sep 13, 2012 14:07

BENGHAZI 2: Oct 13, 2007; by Cyrano4747

Is it just me or does Soul Hunter absolutely loving rule?

# ? Sep 13, 2012 16:13

Mikojan: May 12, 2010

Dickeye posted:

Is it just me or does Soul Hunter absolutely loving rule?

I'd say the quality only ramps up in the next 2 books.

Yes, they are that good.

# ? Sep 13, 2012 16:56

BENGHAZI 2: Oct 13, 2007; by Cyrano4747

Mikojan posted:

I'd say the quality only ramps up in the next 2 books.

Yes, they are that good.

Holy balls I need to get my check and cash it so I can get them.

# ? Sep 13, 2012 17:02

Trast: Oct 20, 2010; Three games, thousands of playthroughs. 90% of the players don't know I exist. Still a redhead saving the galaxy with a [Right Hook].

Speaking of BL Books is there any word on when the latest Gaunt stories will be turned into the fourth omnibus?

# ? Sep 13, 2012 17:44

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Am I the only one who doesn't give a poo poo about Gaunt's Ghosts anymore?

# ? Sep 13, 2012 20:17

berzerkmonkey: Jul 23, 2003

S.J. posted:

Am I the only one who doesn't give a poo poo about Gaunt's Ghosts anymore?

Yes.

Seriously though, it has gone on a bit long, and there isn't a whole lot of advancement aside from characters getting killed. I've got them on my "Meh, I'm not in a rush, but I keep up with the series" list.

I think it would be nice to spice things up with an occasional side mission with them fighting someone other than Blood Pact.

# ? Sep 13, 2012 20:30

Fuzzy Pipe Wrench: Nov 5, 2008; MAYBE DON'T STEAL BEER FROM GOONS?

CHEERS!
(FUCK YOU)

I honestly would really enjoy reading a Gaunt story with them up against some Orks. Just plain normal, orky orks. Hell maybe even let the high command use them as elite commando troops even.

# ? Sep 13, 2012 20:39

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

berzerkmonkey posted:

Yes.

Seriously though, it has gone on a bit long, and there isn't a whole lot of advancement aside from characters getting killed. I've got them on my "Meh, I'm not in a rush, but I keep up with the series" list.

I think it would be nice to spice things up with an occasional side mission with them fighting someone other than Blood Pact.

Like that one with the Sons of Sek? I've kind of put the series onto my "I buy the Omnibus" list but I'm lazy like that. I'm kind of looking forward to the inevitable time they're stricken from the rolls due to horrible Abnetting.

Fuzzy Pipe Wrench posted:

I honestly would really enjoy reading a Gaunt story with them up against some Orks. Just plain normal, orky orks. Hell maybe even let the high command use them as elite commando troops even.

They kind of did both of those things. The second one on no less than two occasions.

# ? Sep 13, 2012 22:23

Fuzzy Pipe Wrench: Nov 5, 2008; MAYBE DON'T STEAL BEER FROM GOONS?

CHEERS!
(FUCK YOU)

Arquinsiel posted:

Like that one with the Sons of Sek? I've kind of put the series onto my "I buy the Omnibus" list but I'm lazy like that. I'm kind of looking forward to the inevitable time they're stricken from the rolls due to horrible Abnetting.
They kind of did both of those things. The second one on no less than two occasions.

Well I mean do it again, after all of the super terrible soul-taining poo poo they've been through recently.

# ? Sep 13, 2012 22:25

Cynic Jester: Apr 11, 2009; Let's put a simile on that face
A dazzling simile
Twinkling like the night sky

If they go back to "Oh no, high command hosed us over again and put us into an unusual situation instead of letting us play to our strengths" for the nth time I'll be somewhat disappointed. The books could really use some story progression beyond "Next battle, go".

# ? Sep 14, 2012 01:04

MisterFuzzles: Dec 5, 2009; We can't go back no more, but I suppose we can go wherever we please.

Dickeye posted:

Holy balls I need to get my check and cash it so I can get them.

<-- This smiley is woefully inadequate when Void Stalker finishes up.

Though one of my favorite moments is in Soul Hunter.

"I heard bolter fire"

Finished Treacheries of the Space Marines Not bad though one story confused me as to why it was even included. Story was about some Flesh Tearers (Jeez, are these guys the Imperium version of World Eaters? Change a few lines and I'd not be able to tell the difference) that ripped some Chaos dudes some new ones. Not entirely sure how that fit in with the theme of the book but eh.

Matt Farrer and ADBs stories were the best of the lot, surprise surprise. ADBs was more First Claw set somewhere in between Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver.

On to Shadows of Treachery

# ? Sep 14, 2012 01:13

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Arquinsiel posted:

They kind of did both of those things. The second one on no less than two occasions.

I think the fun idea is that High Command has hired some Freeboterz as mercenaries and the Ghosts just have to put up with them. You could also have some of the Ghosts detached as cadre and liason to the Orks, but that's getting into fanfic territory.

# ? Sep 14, 2012 01:29

berzerkmonkey: Jul 23, 2003

MisterFuzzles posted:

Story was about some Flesh Tearers (Jeez, are these guys the Imperium version of World Eaters?

Yeah, pretty much. In the fluff, they went bonkers and killed a bunch of civilians (on Armageddon, I think.) Some Sisters stepped in to stop them, and the Flesh Tearers wound up slaughtering them as well. I haven't read the new story yet, but yeah, they're pretty close to falling over the edge.

# ? Sep 14, 2012 02:48

jadebullet: Mar 25, 2011; MY LIFE FOR YOU!

Yup, the Flesh Tearers were almost excommunicated due to their barbarity, and their predilection for succumbing to the Black Rage. Their Chapter Master, Seth, has been working hard to turn them around, and the Blood Angels are actually on speaking terms with them again.

Anyway, I was at my local book store today and I noticed that they organized, and heavily stocked up on 40K novels, so despite having the entire Gaunts Ghosts, Ravenor, and Eisenhorn serieses to read though, I picked up some books about Space Marines to add more variety to my ADHD driven reading habits.

First off, they had both of the Blood Angels Omnibuses there, and seeing as I play a Blood Angels successor chapter, I couldn't help sighing and lamenting the fact that there is no good Blood Angels fiction out there.

Anyway, I figured it was time to get some Space Marine Battles books out of the way for my collection. I already have Helsreach on my Kindle, so I didn't have to get that. Their selection was Helsreach, Rynns World, Purging of Kaldaris, The Fang, Architect of Fate, Legion of the Damned, Hunt for Voldorius and Gildar Rift.

I ended up picking up Kaldaris, Legion, and Brotherhood of the Snake. I have heard good things about Legion and Snake, but how is Kaldaris?

Also, in general, how do the SM battle books stack up? I know that Helsreach is considered #1, and that Hunt for Voldemort is considered to be pretty poo poo, but what about the rest of them?

# ? Sep 14, 2012 03:57

MisterFuzzles: Dec 5, 2009; We can't go back no more, but I suppose we can go wherever we please.

Battle of the Fangs worth it. As mentioned in the OP its fluffy and has some good action. I liked it better than Legion myself but Space Vikings always sucker me in.

....Of course I say that when I have yet to read the Space Wolves omnibus. Judging by the OP I should probably look into that at some point. Still gotta get through Shadows of Treachery, books 2 and 3 of Shira and got some Glen Cook too.

I need to read faster.

MisterFuzzles fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Sep 14, 2012

# ? Sep 14, 2012 04:08

BENGHAZI 2: Oct 13, 2007; by Cyrano4747

MisterFuzzles posted:

Battle of the Fangs worth it. As mentioned in the OP its fluffy and has some good action. I liked it better than Legion myself but Space Vikings always sucker me in.

....Of course I say that when I have yet to read the Space Wolves omnibus. Judging by the OP I should probably look into that at some point. Still gotta get through Shadows of Treachery, books 2 and 3 of Shira and got some Glen Cook too.

I need to read faster.

THe Space Wolves omnibus is enjoyable just for how loving goofy/metal it is.

# ? Sep 14, 2012 04:14

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; What is the Matrix 🌐? We just don't know 😎.; Buglord

jadebullet posted:

Also, in general, how do the SM battle books stack up? I know that Helsreach is considered #1, and that Hunt for Voldemort is considered to be pretty poo poo, but what about the rest of them?

I enjoyed Wrath of Iron, but I eat up everything with the Iron Hands.

# ? Sep 14, 2012 04:27

BENGHAZI 2: Oct 13, 2007; by Cyrano4747

Catechism of Hate was pretty alright. Purging of Kadillus wasn't bad from what I read, it just didn't grab me like Battle of the Fang or Catechism of Hate did. I haven't started on Helsreach yet, either.

# ? Sep 14, 2012 05:10

Mechafunkzilla: Sep 11, 2006; If you want a vision of the future...

MisterFuzzles posted:

Battle of the Fangs worth it. As mentioned in the OP its fluffy and has some good action. I liked it better than Legion myself but Space Vikings always sucker me in.

....Of course I say that when I have yet to read the Space Wolves omnibus. Judging by the OP I should probably look into that at some point. Still gotta get through Shadows of Treachery, books 2 and 3 of Shira and got some Glen Cook too.

I need to read faster.

The William King Space Wolf books are a lot of fun and definitely worth reading, though they're somewhat lighter in tone than a lot of 40k stuff.

# ? Sep 14, 2012 05:19

EyeRChris: Mar 3, 2010; Intergalactic, all-planetary, everything super-supreme champion

Just started Fear to Tread and only a few chapters in but liking it so far.

Love the bit where they work with Alpha Legion for like half a chapter and it leaves you wondering. What the gently caress did Alpha Legion do to put an entire Ork Fleet into a panic?!

# ? Sep 14, 2012 05:47

Emnity: Sep 24, 2009; King of Scotland

So far I haven't been able to finish the Descent of Angels in the Horus Heresy series, it just doesn't have any latch for me at all.

Please tell me it gets better to give me the will to carry on!

# ? Sep 14, 2012 12:39

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 8, 2024 21:26

Cat Planet: Jun 26, 2010

Emnity posted:

So far I haven't been able to finish the Descent of Angels in the Horus Heresy series, it just doesn't have any latch for me at all.

Please tell me it gets better to give me the will to carry on!

It does not. They get rid of the beasts, then the Emperor comes down and makes them into Astartes, oh and they kill some poo poo afterwards.
Here, now you can read something better.

Also avoid Battle for the Abyss if you're going to continue with the series.

Rapey Joe Stalin posted:

I'm only 64 pages into Battle For The Abyss and it is already very very bad. Everything that is bad about Black Library books has already made an appearance.

'Normally his choler would rise at this, being a choleric person, but ANONYMOUS SIDEKICK was personality type x, perfectly balancing the flaws in MAIN CHARECTER'S personality'.

Space Wolf Rarg Biffstrong throws chairs around and drinks beer from his own beard.

"Ultramarines Ultramarined Ultramariningly on Ultramarine."

Super huge ultimate death space weapon of ultimate baroque doom.

Words used awkwardly (and bizarrely) to make things seem more gothic, at the expense of sentence structure and flow. For example:
"It [sic] cannot believe that the very ship carrying five companies of my battle-brothers and en-route to Calth was destroyed before reaching Vangelis in a random act of Xenos contrition"

Cat Planet fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Sep 14, 2012

# ? Sep 14, 2012 12:47

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Warhammer: After 18 years, finally an end

«‹›1134 »