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ack posted:Maybe we are a little short on time, but could a colaborative effort in this thread pay for the dungeon? I would be so down for an Awful Dungeon. I'd have a spare $20 to throw in.
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Sep 13, 2012 11:52
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New version seems to be out. Looks like spell attacks got changed to level instead of spell level for their to hit bonuses. This is good. EDIT: It looks like wizard spells still say Spell Level, unlike Bard and Cleric. Hmmm. Didn't fix those yet? Dekar fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Sep 13, 2012 |
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Sep 13, 2012 17:14
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They've also got the first chapter all laid out for everyone to have a look at too. Linky.
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Sep 13, 2012 17:25
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TG-Chrono posted:I would be so down for an Awful Dungeon. I'd have a spare $20 to throw in. I'd toss in $20 to help with an Awful dungeon.
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Sep 13, 2012 17:34
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So they put up the first chapter of 13A laid out so you can see what they are doing. http://www.pelgranepress.com/?p=9088 I really want to like it, and it is really pretty. But goddamnit the icons overflow cross pages and like the orc lord's picture is on a different page than all his info, and half the elf queens stuff is on one page and half on another. It would maybe cost a few more pages, but if they put the icons 1 per page it would increase usability 10 fold.
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Sep 13, 2012 17:52
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Red_Mage posted:So they put up the first chapter of 13A laid out so you can see what they are doing. I noticed that too, and it was a real shame. I wonder how constrained they were by page count, but drat. If you had to cut something to make things all fit on a page per Icon, I would vote for the quotes, since a lot of them are pretty cheesy when read without any sort of context. On the other hand, since this chapter is mostly a "flavor text" chapter, it probably won't be referenced that often, unlike, say, classes and feats and whatnot. However, as a flavor text chapter, I can't help but think that some setting history would be a bit better first, rather than just throwing people into the Icons. There are some references to ages and a Wizard King who is totally not Vecna and an Empire that is somehow not evil (this is, personally, kind of a hard disassociation thanks to all sorts of media that predates it), which just kind of muddle the Icons and their role in the setting. Give me some context as to why The Emperor is a Good Guy™, or why the Orc Lord took down the Wizard King and how he lost the power after that, etc. Give me an idea of how the Elves and Dwarves fit into all this poo poo. Compare it to the Forgotten Realms campaign setting or even something like the 7th Sea Player's Guide, where they tell you the history of things, give you a general lay of the land, and in the process of doing so tell you who the big name players are. It is probably too late and I realize this isn't a campaign book, but my initial reaction on reading Chapter 1 was a bit of disorientation, and this is after hearing about the game a lot here. Again, it is hardly consequential to the game at large, but first impressions are important, and this one doesn't give me a clear picture on what the hell is going on and why.
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Sep 13, 2012 18:10
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I wonder if the icon sketches are placeholders for the colored versions, or are they going to be in the printed version? I sure hope they will be the colored versions.
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Sep 13, 2012 18:38
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First of all, I've really enjoyed following 13th Age's development. My gaming group is looking forward to starting a pbe campaign using its rules this week. If anyone has any advice on play by email with 13th Age or in general, I'd love to hear it. One of my players asked if weapons get a proficiency bonus, due to AC of monsters being so much higher than other defenses. I originally thought it was balanced by sorcerers having lower accuracy and damage. The recent change to spell accuracy and rogue damage talents makes this a lot less likely. Rogue damage might still be high enough to make up this difference, I've not run the numbers yet. Looking over the AC and defenses of monsters, PD is on average 2.9 points lower than AC while MD is 5 points lower. In the case of one monster AC and MD have a difference of 16 points. If the rogue has any chance at all of hitting this guy the party's wizard will destroy him. I'm (possibly unfairly) getting 3ed poorly scaled saving throw flashbacks. Are attacks that target MD weaker to compensate for the effective +5 to hit in most situations? On the topic of AC vs. PD, I don't like the Defensive/Brittle template for monsters. If attacks against AC are already less likely to hit, penalizing them even further while leaving PD and MD the same doesn't seem reasonable. A party of sorcerers will have a much, much easier time killing brittle monsters than a party of rogues. Even if PD and MD was increased by the brittle template Sorcerers would have an advantage--having a higher initial defense makes the +3 bonus more valuable. I really hope sorcerers get more spells before release. I want to make one that loads up on recharging chain spells with a variety of effects. He'd probably be a half-elf.
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Sep 13, 2012 18:38
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ack posted:Maybe we are a little short on time, but could a colaborative effort in this thread pay for the dungeon? I'm totally down with this, I would gladly throw in $50 for a collaborative effort.
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Sep 13, 2012 19:54
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Two questions after skimming the recent Escalation Edition version: 1) Can you please put some HP limits on the cleric spell "Commandment"? I love that 13th Age makes parties beat on big monsters for awhile to get their hit points down before they can start getting hit with Sleep and Confusion type spells. Commandment, for some reason, doesn't have that kind of limitation. That, combined with its potentially obscene damage, makes it pretty broken. Add some HP limits like there are in every other control spell in the game and it will be fine. 2) It seems a little odd that the rules assume that 9th level characters will mostly be fighting 11th level monsters, and 10th level characters will mostly be fighting 12th level monsters, but the highest level monsters in the book are 10th level. Are there plans to add some big guys in before release? I don't mean to sound too critical. Overall, I'm really liking what I am seeing.
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Sep 13, 2012 20:07
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Just wanted to ask this again:Namagem posted:Will templates be available for 13th age-compatible 3rd party material to be consistent with the core books? And also ask if there's any plan to release any errata after the game officially lauches.
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Sep 13, 2012 20:20
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inklesspen posted:(because my friends are only interested in games that start with "Path" and end in "finder") I haven't played Pathfinder myself, but the Icon system could easily be used for the lodges that show up in Pathfinder Society (at least, as I read them in the little free book thingy). Icons can as easily be uber-organization-archetypes as they can be uber-NPC-archetypes. I don't know if Pathfinder as a whole has those things, but it was something I thought about.
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Sep 13, 2012 21:57
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ack posted:Maybe we are a little short on time, but could a colaborative effort in this thread pay for the dungeon? TG-Chrono posted:I would be so down for an Awful Dungeon. I'd have a spare $20 to throw in. Kenderama posted:I'd toss in $20 to help with an Awful dungeon. animaCartographer posted:I'm totally down with this, I would gladly throw in $50 for a collaborative effort. So we are at a possible $140. Not even halfway there, anyone else? If nobody feels like paying $150 for the right to get all the physical stuff maybe it could all be donated to some gaming charity or something...
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Sep 13, 2012 23:08
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Red_Mage posted:I really want to like it, and it is really pretty. But goddamnit the icons overflow cross pages and like the orc lord's picture is on a different page than all his info, and half the elf queens stuff is on one page and half on another. It would maybe cost a few more pages, but if they put the icons 1 per page it would increase usability 10 fold. That was the thing that really jumped out and looked bad. But then and here's a page and a half about the Archmage. What an interesting guy! Oh the Dwarf King? Yeah he's a dwarf and a king, whatever. I guess there's an Elf Queen too or something.  While the 9-axis alignment chart for babies is important enough to merit a page to itself. I guess so I can tear it out? moths fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Sep 13, 2012 |
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Sep 13, 2012 23:25
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Namagem posted:Just wanted to ask this again: I was leaving that question for Simon to answer, but I suspect he's been swamped and hasn't seen it. I've just asked him. Dekar posted:I wonder if the icon sketches are placeholders for the colored versions, or are they going to be in the printed version? I sure hope they will be the colored versions. The sketches will be used as you see them in the preview. The full-color images of the icons are actually going to be used as chapter illustrations. So, I went to lunch and when I came back the Monster Art +5 stretch goal was funded. We're roughly $3,600 away from getting a necromancer class, which may have passed the chaos shaman as my favorite PC class I know almost nothing about.
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Sep 13, 2012 23:34
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waderockett posted:necromancer class, which may have passed the chaos shaman as my favorite PC class I know almost nothing about. Not cool Wade.
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Sep 13, 2012 23:36
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The layout in the escalation edition is a lot easier to read, and has room for a full page illustration. Just saying... Also holy crap am I reading the Wood Elf racial right? Because it's straight up better than all the other racial abilities combined.
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Sep 13, 2012 23:59
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Wade, I liked hearing about your game with Rob - http://www.pelgranepress.com/?p=9061 Any chance we can get Rob to run a game in a Google+ Hangout? Run it as a Hangout on the Air and save it to YouTube and if it goes well it'd be a killer advertising boon. (And dibs on a slot at that game.  )
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Sep 14, 2012 01:33
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Mikan posted:Not cool Wade. He's such a tease
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Sep 14, 2012 01:50
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If you are coming to the Escapist Expo in Durham, NC this weekend I will be available to run 13th Age at the Indie Games on Demand booth. I'll be there all day today and then on and off the next two days.
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Sep 14, 2012 14:28
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@Namagem Yes, we'll have an errata. I'll start a thread on the 13th Age forum. I think a suggested template is a good idea, but we won't be releasing the template we'll be using ourselves (branding issues don't you know). We are doing an SRD, so maybe we could format that with a plain and clean usuable style for stat blocks, icon info, sidebars, etc. which third-party publishers can adapt. Anyone interested in third-party publishing is welcome (but not obliged) to contact me offline. @ack I'll throw $100 into your Awful Dungeon reward pot if you raise the other $400. On the Kickstarter PDF: We added the "get an early PDF version of 13th Age" to the pot so that people can taste the game at the $50; I can understand why people have taken advantage to commit then withdraw; in fact, other than me imagining the tiny sad face of The Rockester, I don't mind that much, because hardly anyone does it after seeing the book and more people end up committing. It becomes an issue near stretch goals, but I can live with that, but it makes Wade cry. I appreciate that Escalation Edition pre-orderers already have a PDF (now v4 as opposed to the v3 that the KS non-core book reward people are getting) but it hadn't crossed my mind that people who have the EE and then support the Kickstarter at a $50+ level should get something extra to compensate them for the fact they now have two similar PDFs. However, we love those EE+KS people so I'll think of something suitable when the reward funds are collected. Finally, anyone who gets the hardcover core book as a reward will have their PDF download synched with the Escalation Edition when funding is complete.
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Sep 14, 2012 14:55
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I bought the pre-order, and reading the icons, setting descriptions and example adventure, the setting seems to be pretty whimsical and cartoonish, which doesn't fit my group, who like more "serious", toned down settings and games. On the other hand we're sick of 3.5 which is all we ever played, and the stripped down D20, backgrounds, streamlined combat, icon-system and so on seems perfect for us, so I'm tempted to just use the system in a different setting. I haven't had a chance to playtest, so what I'm wondering is if you guys who tested the system more thoroughly think it would work well for a game with more "serious" flavor and storylines? Part of the reason I'm asking is that most of the the playtest writeups I've seen have completely unhinged One Unique Things and crazy improvised storylines where it seems like anything can happen. The system obviously works very well for these kinds of games, but does it work as well for more down to earth stuff where the players are restricted to more sensible and "realistic" actions"? An extreme example of what I mean by "anything can happen" is a game someone described where someone cast feather fall on a flying ship's mast so a player could shoot the mast like an arrow on a kraken. That sounds kind of fun to me, but my players hate stuff like that. The player participation element also puts me off, because my players like to adapt to the setting, rather than being able to change the setting during the adventure or even during combat, to make their plans work. Example being a playtest I read about where a players used an icon roll to decide that a magic item they were transporting was an artifact of the lich king and using it to animate some dead guys and winning the fight. They prefer that to be something I do behind the scenes so everything seems to be set in stone, even if it is adapting to make the player's plans work in the story. Does the system hinge on this kind of player participation? They also really don't want to know the HP count of what they're fighting. It seems a lot of abilities hinge on knowing it. My questions and my group's wishes might be a little unclear - it's a little hard to put this stuff into words, but hopefully some of you understand my concerns. Would this game work for my group at all? Greenplastic fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Sep 14, 2012 |
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Sep 14, 2012 15:07
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Simon Rogers posted:@ack Oh man I'd love to throw money at this but all my gaming money for the next month is going towards the Jet Set radio remake (and what I've got in various kick starters).
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Sep 14, 2012 15:12
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Greenplastic posted:The player participation element also puts me off, because my players like to adapt to the setting, rather than being able to change the setting during the adventure or even during combat, to make their plans work. Example being a playtest I read about where a players used an icon roll to decide that a magic item they were transporting was an artifact of the lich king and using it to animate some dead guys and winning the fight. They prefer that to be something I do behind the scenes so everything seems to be set in stone, even if it is adapting to make the player's plans work in the story. Does the system hinge on this kind of player participation? One thing I can say about this element is that the example in that part isn't actually part of the relationships system, it was just a fun thing that gm threw in. At default, your rolling of your icon dice represents you leveraging your reputation, contacts and ties to an icon's organisation (or their enemies) to get stuff done. It doesn't need to have anything to do with editing the game's fiction if you don't want it to.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:26
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Someone might want to make a thread about the Awful Dungeon, since people here might be interested in having their hand in a dungeon, even if they won't play 13th Age. Then we can also use it as a contest thread of some sort, with the winner getting all the actual 13th Age stuff. A terrible, terrible contest  I'll pitch in $20 for an Awful Dungeon. Dunno what the tally is at now.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:27
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Greenplastic posted:The player participation element also puts me off, because my players like to adapt to the setting, rather than being able to change the setting during the adventure or even during combat, to make their plans work. Example being a playtest I read about where a players used an icon roll to decide that a magic item they were transporting was an artifact of the lich king and using it to animate some dead guys and winning the fight. They prefer that to be something I do behind the scenes so everything seems to be set in stone, even if it is adapting to make the player's plans work in the story. Does the system hinge on this kind of player participation? Shared narrative control elements are a tough thing for a lot of groups to really wrap heads around if you aren't used to it. It may very well be that they would like that sort of thing once they played that way a few times. I'm not trying to discount your group's experience or say they are wrong, just that they might not actually know how they feel about it beyond saying "well its not the way we've always played". I know that's how I approached the idea at first. Edit: I also would throw 20 dollars at the Awful Dungeon.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:28
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I'm just worried it'll be full of self referential in jokes and memes. I don't really think anyone wants pusher / shover golems or a green goatse sculpture with a sphere of annihilation in it.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:33
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moths posted:I'm just worried it'll be full of self referential in jokes and memes. I don't really think anyone wants pusher / shover golems or a green goatse sculpture with a sphere of annihilation in it. I don't want the goatse statue but I sort of do want golems that are here to protect you from the terrible secret of space.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:35
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That actually does sound pretty dope.
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Sep 14, 2012 15:55
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Dominion posted:Shared narrative control elements are a tough thing for a lot of groups to really wrap heads around if you aren't used to it. It may very well be that they would like that sort of thing once they played that way a few times. I'm not trying to discount your group's experience or say they are wrong, just that they might not actually know how they feel about it beyond saying "well its not the way we've always played". I know that's how I approached the idea at first. Good point. Might need to try it out a bit and find out.
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Sep 14, 2012 16:02
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Plus, well, I think a few in-jokes would be worth it if it helps the game get funded. The key-word being "few."
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Sep 14, 2012 16:02
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Simon Rogers posted:However, we love those EE+KS people so I'll think of something suitable when the reward funds are collected. Best news I heard all day. (I just woke up)
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Sep 14, 2012 16:14
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Greenplastic posted:I bought the pre-order, and reading the icons, setting descriptions and example adventure, the setting seems to be pretty whimsical and cartoonish, which doesn't fit my group, who like more "serious", toned down settings and games. My old school group who have never played indie games are like this. I have to manage this carefully, but it is possible. I call the approach Black Box GMing. So, I'd say yes you can run it with them, but it might require a little "illusionism" on your part. Something Awful is at the far edge of the wild and wacky end of the spectrum. But players make suggestions veiled as questions all the time, and you can surreptitiously incorporate their input in a way they can handle. You can run it as traditionally as you like. Just remember the times when they've looked for traps in places you hadn't considered and you've incorporated it. For Unique Things - they might ask "does the Emperor have a crack squad of imperial spies?" and you would look thoughtful and say "why yes, he does" rather than "that's a great idea." I don't know about you, but I frequently have conversations with players in which we speculate about our setting as if it were a real thing and then I incorporate stuff they've conjectured. As for knowing hit points, sell it to them like this. Current hit points are an abstract measure of the capability of a target or ally to take, partially avoid or sustain damage "a measure of how not dead you are". Your characters are combat experts each their own way; they can tell how injured, how tired, how capable their enemies and allies currently are compared with you. They never know exactly how many, just more, less or occasionally staggered. The setting is a good place in which to improvise, but you just don't have to do it. It's just as good a place to pre-plan whatever you want.
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Sep 14, 2012 16:18
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Great suggestions! I really want to be convinced as well, because the mechanics seem to get rid of a lot of the 3.5 tedium were so tired of. Backgrounds especially! Fighters being able to participate in skill challenges, hell yeah!
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Sep 14, 2012 16:22
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I'd go $30 into an Awful Dungeon. To my entirely unchecked calculations, that puts us at $190.00 of the 400.00 we'd need to Simon to pitch $100.00. Could be interesting.
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Sep 14, 2012 16:30
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If your group is the sort to like you to write up a detailed world to adventure in, the One Unique Thing seems like it could easily be drawn from a reading of your setting primer. In a more toned-down setting, it could be something like "hardened by life as an orphan of the War of the Five Kingdoms." Likewise, the Icons seem to be intentionally adaptable, so the Lich King could just as easily be the Baratsovia Mafia or the ambitious Duke of Upper Scradmarch.
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Sep 14, 2012 16:41
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That's a background, not an OUT. Unless your character was the only survivor of the war, in which case something the gently caress is up  I'd be willing to toss 60 in the awful dungeon pot. What kind of ideas do people want to incorporate?
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Sep 14, 2012 16:49
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Tollymain posted:That's a background, not an OUT. Unless your character was the only survivor of the war, in which case something the gently caress is up Tollymain - $60 SageNytell - $30 Dominion - $20 GrandpaPants - $20 animaCartographer - $50 Kenderama - $20 TG-Chrono - $20 ack - $50 This gets the tally up to $270 of $400 needed for Simon to pitch his $100. For now the only suggestion involves Golems that protect you from Venus power (aka the Devil). If anybody wants to take this off my hands, feel free. If we haven't reached the $400 by monday I'll post a thread like GrandpaPants suggested.
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Sep 14, 2012 17:09
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Greenplastic posted:Great suggestions! I really want to be convinced as well, because the mechanics seem to get rid of a lot of the 3.5 tedium were so tired of. Backgrounds especially! Fighters being able to participate in skill challenges, hell yeah! FWIW most of the monster hit point abilities are keyed off when the monster is staggered or not. So I just told my players (during the playtest) when each monster hit staggered. That actually helped me preserve immersion too since its an easy way to communicate to players about how much of an affect their attacks have had. 13A's storygame stuff is as serious as you want to make it, some one unique things from my sessions: "I am a living spellbook, with spells tattooed into me that I don't even comprehend" "I am the last bastard heir to a kingdom" "Everybody wants to know me"
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Sep 14, 2012 17:21
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ack posted:Tollymain - $60 As I offered before, I'll kick in 10 bucks and totally write the whole thing to goon standards if they want. Swap Monsters.
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Sep 14, 2012 17:22
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