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Ferrinus posted:I don't like Hollow Mekhet. Having a cool rival isn't a real weakness, your ghost's assumed constant interference should at least increase the XP cost of social merits or something. My system for dealing with Liesmith's ghost is to roll a D10 each scene, with a 1 making the ghost gently caress with him and a 10 triggering it doing something helpful, on top of having the ghost interfere whenever I think it'd be cool anyway.
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Sep 19, 2012 22:00
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Tolth posted:My system for dealing with Liesmith's ghost is to roll a D10 each scene, with a 1 making the ghost gently caress with him and a 10 triggering it doing something helpful, on top of having the ghost interfere whenever I think it'd be cool anyway. But... that's still not an actual weakness. On top of that, a Hollow Mekhet should have to (for example) pay double to acquire social merits, or have a % chance not to regain willpower from rest due to ghostly disturbances, or something.
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Sep 19, 2012 23:48
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Ferrinus posted:But... that's still not an actual weakness. To be fair, it's more of a weakness than regular mekhets have. Oh no! I can't go out in the sun! This is a huge disability compared to other vampires!
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Sep 19, 2012 23:52
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Liesmith posted:To be fair, it's more of a weakness than regular mekhets have. Oh no! I can't go out in the sun! This is a huge disability compared to other vampires! The Mekhet weakness isn't that you can't go out in the sun, it's that when someone throws an incendiary grenade at you you're way more likely to instantly die. It's not about avoiding campfires or something, it's about being completely owned whenever someone actively and deliberately uses fire against you. Of all the clans, the Mekhet are the absolute worst at direct, violent confrontation, because they've got a Pokemon-style damage type weakness. Someone with well-armed ghouls, or even some dots of Resilience and a lot of gumption, can own the poo poo out of you - so you always have to stay back, to avoid head-on clashes, to hide. It's actually the Daeva that don't have a weakness, because who bothers to police that poo poo?
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Sep 19, 2012 23:55
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See I'm on the complete other side of this issue because I think roleplaying penalties are often the most penalizing. If you're not there to engage in cooperative storytelling I don't know what you're doing playing *WoD.
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Sep 20, 2012 00:02
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^^^Also that, roleplaying penalties in a WoD game should be coming up a decent amount, that's kinda the core concept of WoD. Yea, fire's a common tool in the modern environment. I remember last night at the club I was dancing with some guy's boyfriend and he threw a loving Molotov at me.
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Sep 20, 2012 00:03
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Reene posted:See I'm on the complete other side of this issue because I think roleplaying penalties are often the most penalizing. See, that's the point. "Roleplaying penalties" aren't. They're fun. Being debauched and corrupt isn't a "weakness", you'd probably roleplaying your character as being debauched and corrupt completely for free, because it owns. You can even do it if you're not playing a Daeva! For instance, my longstanding Gangrel character was extremely lazy. In truth, the Daeva weakness has a bit more bite than I'm giving it credit for, because of course if some character knows your Daeva's vice and uses it to manipulate you, you end up paying willpower points though the nose in order to resist their blandishments. In the course of normal play, though, it's sort of not a thing. Glitterbomber posted:Yea, fire's a common tool in the modern environment. I remember last night at the club I was dancing with some guy's boyfriend and he threw a loving Molotov at me. Are you, uh. Casting doubt on the notion that someone would use fire to attack a vampire? Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Sep 20, 2012 |
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Sep 20, 2012 00:06
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There are no federal restrictions on private ownership of flamethrowers in America, and only a few states restrict them at all. Think about that for a good long moment.
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Sep 20, 2012 00:09
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Punting posted:There are no federal restrictions on private ownership of flamethrowers in America, and only a few states restrict them at all. I'm running Vampire tonight and believe me: I have.
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Sep 20, 2012 00:11
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God help the Mekhet who attacks someone in a busy kitchen.
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Sep 20, 2012 00:11
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The first time I ran Vampire, someone managed to stave off the attack of their Mekhet sire-to-be by wildly waving a lighter at around. I described the brief passage of a single spark of flame burning half the vampire's face to cinders in a flash, eyes included. (This led to an easygoing conversation that lasted only as long as the lighter still had fluid left - the Mekhet still had superhuman hearing, after all)
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Sep 20, 2012 00:14
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I've been rereading Revised Tribebooks since I want to get in on a game that's starting next year and goddamn but I'd forgotten what an obnoxious bunch of assholes werewolves are. At least the Bone Gnawers own.
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Sep 20, 2012 01:45
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Ventrue have the most forgiving weakness because all you have to do is be a Good Person who only uses legitimate violence so you never roll to lose Humanity much less degenerate.
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Sep 20, 2012 01:50
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Hay I'm thinking about doing a Jojo's Bizarre Adventure themed campaign in WoD but I'm not sure which books to use?
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Sep 20, 2012 02:02
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Ferrinus posted:See, that's the point. "Roleplaying penalties" aren't. They're fun. Mechanical penalties aren't fun?
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Sep 20, 2012 02:47
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I don't see why penalties can't also be fun things. They're just things that make things harder for your character. That can just mean having less dice or not being able to do X action sure, but it can also have IC consequences like NPCs hating you or forcing you to solve your problems in creative ways and neither is inherently less of a penalty than the other.
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Sep 20, 2012 02:52
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Mechanical penalties aren't fun? Well, let me put it another way: I don't actually think "roleplaying penalties" are meaningfully penalties at all. They amount to "You have to play your character in a certain way", and, like... you always play your character in a certain way. That's the point, you come up with a character concept and you play it. It's not that mechanical penalties aren't fun while roleplaying penalties are or something like that (the hilarious implication here is that every player MUST be saddled with a minimum of unfun character elements), it's that the two aren't really interchangeable. You shouldn't ever be choosing between being sinful and licentious and having a mechanical penalty somewhere. Rather, being sinful and licentious should have a mechanical penalty, while the alternate option has an equally compelling roleplaying implication.
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Sep 20, 2012 03:00
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Oh no this penalty is fun to use and doesn't punish you for picking the choice, whatever shall we do?
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Sep 20, 2012 03:01
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Glitterbomber posted:Oh no this penalty is fun to use and doesn't punish you for picking the choice, whatever shall we do?
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Sep 20, 2012 03:26
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Ventrue have the most forgiving weakness because all you have to do is be a Good Person who only uses legitimate violence so you never roll to lose Humanity much less degenerate. That's when you start putting the character in bad situations. If they want to be the good ol' Good Guy Vampire, you make them suffer to live up to that ideal. You can either suffer as a monster or suffer as a man, but either way there's a ball gag involved somewhere.
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Sep 20, 2012 03:28
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Loomer posted:That's when you start putting the character in bad situations. If they want to be the good ol' Good Guy Vampire, you make them suffer to live up to that ideal. You can either suffer as a monster or suffer as a man, but either way there's a ball gag involved somewhere. On the other hand, a Gangrel scholar is going to be struggling with being on the poo poo end of Flowers for Algernon forever. Just, yup. You always suck at books now, RIP.
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Sep 20, 2012 03:35
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I'm actually fine with the Gangrel weakness. The one I like least is the Daeva weakness, and that's only because it often requires either deliberate targeting or annoying nagging to have mechanical impact. I'm totally down with the Daeva weakness being "Daeva are slaves to their vices" in general, I just wish the rules for it were smoother.
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Sep 20, 2012 03:50
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I still prefer the oWoD Gangrel weakness, to be honest. There's just something appealing in a body horror sense about the idea of waking up soaked in blood to find you now have the eyes of a fly or the head of a lion, and also that you ate like three people.
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Sep 20, 2012 03:57
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That weakness was pretty silly in implementation. Like... actually growing a tail, and then some whiskers, and then a patch of scales, and then - come on! I'd enjoy a Gangrel clan that tended to physically mutate into an increasingly monstrous creature as its Humanity dropped, though. The Carnon from Circle of the Crone are pretty good for this, and my character ended up as a member of a custom bloodline that was all about being trapped in a monster form in the last Vampire game I played.
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Sep 20, 2012 04:02
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White Wolf Twitter posted:Talk Like A Pirate Day! Get WoD: Blood-Dimmed Tides: http://bit.ly/UjEKj7 & Exalted: Savage Seas: http://bit.ly/S7Tm7s FREE today only! Didn't see this posted already, but there's two free pirate-themed PDFs up on Drivethru. It's a little late-notice, but hopefully someone can get these.
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Sep 20, 2012 04:09
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Blood-Dimmed Tides is the oWoDest book in the best way so I strongly recommend everyone who can get it through that deal, get it.Ferrinus posted:That weakness was pretty silly in implementation. Like... actually growing a tail, and then some whiskers, and then a patch of scales, and then - come on!
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Sep 20, 2012 04:30
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Ferrinus posted:I'm actually fine with the Gangrel weakness. I did always find it odd that they make a mention that Gangrels are suppose to be shamanistic witch doctors but they give them a penalties to mental rolls?
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Sep 20, 2012 04:37
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Volume posted:I did always find it odd that they make a mention that Gangrels are suppose to be shamanistic witch doctors but they give them a penalties to mental rolls? 
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Sep 20, 2012 04:41
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The biggest offender in my eyes is the Annunaki bloodline. It's a Gangrel bloodline about establishing lordly dominion over your territory through mystical rituals, and then it gives you a bunch of Int or Wits rolls to make to scry places in your territory, give people environmental penalties, etc. Then there's a Ventrue bloodline about physically merging with your own haven and turning it into a monstrous creature that can attract prey, drink blood, etc, through Presence and Manipulation rolls. Just, just, just look. How. Why. It feels like taking a huge load off your shoulders to just declare categorically that clan weaknesses never apply to the activation rolls of disciplines or devotions, no matter what they are.
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Sep 20, 2012 04:43
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Yawgmoth posted:And a few gangrel bloodlines have Int/Wits based disciplines as their bloodline discipline. So they developed powers they'd automatically suck at? My favorite one of these is the Moroi, from the Ordo Dracul covenant book. They're this Gangrel/Nosferatu hybrid bloodline, with the weaknesses of both clans and also their nonunique disciplines: Animalism, Obfuscate, Resilience, and Vigor. It's really elegant and cool how the Gangrel clan weakness makes them bad at Obfuscate and the Nosferatu clan weakness makes them bad at Animalism. In my game, the Nosferatu and Gangrel weaknesses just don't affect Discipline rolls.
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Sep 20, 2012 04:44
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Blood-Dimmed Tides has those godawful mermaids, but if memory serves it also has the loving ROKEA, who rule.
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Sep 20, 2012 04:48
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Blood-Dimmed Tides is the oWoDest book in the best way so I strongly recommend everyone who can get it through that deal, get it. That's why I always rolled it as things that can be easily hidden for the first few (4 for Country, 2 for City)and then one major or hard to hide feature, e.g.: 1. Leathery pads on the feet. Wear boots. 2. A constant animal musk. Wear lots of cologne. 3. Reflective eyes like a cat. Sunglasses, ala Beckett. 4. Oh look, it's not physical. It's psychological, and now you got the weird urge to hide shiny things in your lair like a loving magpie. 5. poo poo, your head is now a bat. Ain't no hiding that one except maybe as part of a costume or dressing like you're in the KKK.
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Sep 20, 2012 04:49
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Really, if you're Gangrel and you're not making friends with a Malkavian or a Nosferatu to pick up some Obfuscate, I dunno what to tell you. Even if you don't need it now, sooner or later you will be glad you did.
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Sep 20, 2012 04:53
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It'd also fit with a lot of the psuedo-derangements Gangrel pick up (the animalistic behaviours) to be able to hide in plain sight. If you're turning into a coyoteman, say, some of those mannerisms of skulking around might well get picked up too - and being able to literally turn invisible sure as hell helps. Also I now want to make an NPC gangrel for a desert-based chronicle. He'd be based on the antlion larvae (this terrifying fucker right here), right down to building a pit to lair at the bottom of and rising out of the sand to feed. I'm picturing something out in Death Valley, waiting patiently for drunk and/or stoned hippies and artists to come check out the multi-coloured sand pit he's built, only to fall in and then up he pops, draining them dry and leaving the dessicated husk for the coyotes.
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Sep 20, 2012 05:00
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Blood-Dimmed Tides is the oWoDest book in the best way so I strongly recommend everyone who can get it through that deal, get it. The best and worst way. On the one hand: Rokea, the Vampires From The Black Lagoon. On the other: Mermaid breastmilk. On the third: the weird-rear end squid monsters that are never mentioned again and which are referred to throughout the book but not actually explained in any detail whatsoever until the appendix.
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Sep 20, 2012 05:14
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Are those the mind flayers from the cover art? And is this the book with the Nosferatu who lived in the hull of a navy ship? (My PDF reader is refusing to let me verify this myself.)
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Sep 20, 2012 05:16
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Yes and I believe yes.
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Sep 20, 2012 05:22
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In my game, I flat-out ruled that the Gangrel and Nos weaknesses don't affect any Discipline rolls. Period. I've actually toyed with the idea of giving the Gangrel the weakness of the Julii in Requiem for Rome instead of the Int/Wits penalty. Basically, you have a -2 penalty to all Humanity degeneration rolls (rather than the Ventrue flaw for a penalty to resist acquiring Derangements/Banes) To me, it reflects the Gangrel having more difficulty resisting the downward slide towards the Beast, but a better ability to maintain their composure during the slide. Whereas Ventrue are better able to hold onto the Man and maintain a trace of social graces, but, as a result, they end up suffering the Derangements that plague a beleaguered mind. I agree that the Mekhet flaw isn't really evocative enough. I'd probably give them a penalty to act in bright light, much like the Masquerade Setites had.
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Sep 20, 2012 05:31
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Loomer posted:That's why I always rolled it as things that can be easily hidden for the first few (4 for Country, 2 for City)and then one major or hard to hide feature, e.g.: Pardon, but that's really dumb. Both for the fact that you end up with a vampire with leathery paws on their feet and animal musk, and for the fact that having your entire head turn into that of a bat is apparently worth -1 Charisma. It's not creepy, it's clownish. Oops, I failed a roll, I have gills now! Oops, I failed another roll, here come the whiskers!
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Sep 20, 2012 05:36
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Fair enough. I'm happy to admit the system itself isn't necessarily the best, but I stand by the concept as being solid.
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Sep 20, 2012 05:43
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