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Viggen posted:Ok? Man my 1995 3-Series is totally faster than a new (X)!
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Sep 26, 2012 19:46
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Man my 1995 3-Series is totally faster than a new (X)! Man my 1996 NG900 hatch is just as fast as a new (insert hot hatch here). Not entirely sure why it's an invalid comparison when the statement I made was essentially 'Why is this all the current car(s) of the same nature can do'. I'd compare something newer, but I have no butt-dyno+clock data on the 2001 93.
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Sep 26, 2012 19:57
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Well, for one, it's at a far lower price point with many more features and superior occupant safety. edit: may also not torque steer in to a tree / bush / wall / house / grandma
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Sep 26, 2012 20:00
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:edit: may also not torque steer in to a tree / bush / wall / house / grandma Which brings in the fact that there are two more airbags directly into view. Gotcha!
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Sep 26, 2012 20:02
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Viggen posted:Which brings in the fact that there are two more airbags directly into view. Gotcha! Seriously dude, your car in 1995 stickered five grand above the A6 GTI MSRP in 2012. Edit: I'll try to turn this in to less of a slap fight. The reason that you don't get better straightline performance is because FWD is pretty much inherently limited to about 250hp for street purposes. Your car was already quite quick and pushing the limits of FWD straightline performance. However, I fail to see how a manufacturer making a car with similar straightline performance, better handling, more features, better occupant safety, for significantly less money, is somehow unimpressive. KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Sep 26, 2012 |
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Sep 26, 2012 20:06
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Seriously dude, your car in 1995 stickered five grand above the A6 GTI MSRP in 2012. I paid $1500 for it last month.  I see your point, but with the convergence of technology and expense within the last 20 years, everything's getting smarter, cheaper, and more prone to breaking. So, I kind of feel the 'MSRP' has been a non-issue qualification. I never claimed it was unimpressive, either, just that 'we achieved that'.
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Sep 26, 2012 20:32
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How is a NG Saab owner talking about other things being "prone to breaking" 
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Sep 26, 2012 21:24
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Hey, how about we talk about new cars, not old cars!
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Sep 26, 2012 21:28
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Like this! http://www.autoblog.com/2012/09/26/porsche-panamera-wagon-concept-is-real-looks-better-than-five-d/ Panamera Sport Turismo concept which we should be seeing more of from Paris. 
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Sep 26, 2012 21:39
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Ok, that's really nice. Question - IIRC, the Cayenne is very profitable for Porsche, so if this taps some of the same market, does it risk hitting them financially? Or will it be a) just as profitable, or b) open enough new market to offset internal scavenging of customer base?
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Sep 26, 2012 21:49
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InitialDave posted:Ok, that's really nice. Well, it will probably never be sold in the US and the Euro market likes wagons. Especially since the Cayenne is still (I believe) appreciably a bigger car, if you live somewhere not America that actually cares about things like overall length. The alternative would be to come out with a Tiguan-sized (or slightly larger) Porsche cute ute.
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Sep 26, 2012 21:50
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InitialDave posted:Ok, that's really nice. If it hits the same market, at least that market is staying with Porsche; it might be a good upsell over the stretch-Beetle Panamera, and grab the lucrative internet car poster demographic too.
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Sep 26, 2012 21:58
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Keyser S0ze posted:So you can load it up with Tapout stickers, jack it up 36 inches, and maybe tow something 10 miles twice per year when you are not trying to drive it like an M3 and weaving in and out of traffic and spewing diesel exhaust all over. MANLY MEN spend $60k on pickup trucks! I really need to take a picture of the front parking lot where I work. It's like a never ending cavalcade of macho men trying to one up each other with their ridiculous trucks.
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Sep 26, 2012 22:11
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Xguard86 posted:does anyone know how many ST's they're making? Generally, I know it depends on how well it sells but is the plan to make them sort of like a Mustang GT to V6 or a more limited quantity?
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Sep 26, 2012 22:33
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KozmoNaut posted:6.5 seconds 0-60 is slow for a hot hatch? The GTI falls into (or above) MS3/WRX pricing in canada so yeah, I'd consider it low on power. I really wasn't impressed when I drove the Mk6 GTI during one of those VW driving events.
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Sep 26, 2012 22:55
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KozmoNaut posted:6.5 seconds 0-60 is slow for a hot hatch? The 2012 VW Beetle Turbo does 0-60 in the same time; so I would consider it slow.
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Sep 26, 2012 23:45
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Devyl posted:The 2012 VW Beetle Turbo does 0-60 in the same time; so I would consider it slow. ... because it's the same car?
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Sep 27, 2012 02:15
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But that's the thing... The whole concept of the GTI is something fun & sporty to drive. If it's running the same speeds as a Beetle, the GTI lost its' balls.
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Sep 27, 2012 02:54
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As the same speed of the Beetle Turbo.
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Sep 27, 2012 03:16
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Which costs about the same as the GTI, mainly because it has the same engine as the GTI and is built on the same platform. The base Beetle is way, way slower and has a 0-60 time in the 8-9 second range.
OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Sep 27, 2012 |
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Sep 27, 2012 03:33
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Crustashio posted:I really wasn't impressed when I drove the Mk6 GTI during one of those VW driving events. After test driving one with a friend after I bought my TDI, I wasn't impressed either. I definitely didn't think it was worth the $3k more than my TDI with similar options.
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Sep 27, 2012 04:14
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I wouldn't think the new GTI is 'slow', but given that that 0-60 isn't any faster than the two previous generations, I could understand being a bit disappointed in the lack of improvement.
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Sep 27, 2012 04:56
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I miss my Mk4 GTI. 
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Sep 27, 2012 04:58
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My point was that 6.5 seconds 0-60 is still pretty quick for a hatch that's FWD, has a number of luxury features, is a practical everyday car and gets quite good gas mileage. The obsession with 0-60 times only tells a tenth of the story. How is the torque curve, how is the clutch+gearbox, can you put the power down without understeering everywhere? How is the midrange acceleration, say from 30-80? That's a hell of a lot important than 0-60, unless you live your life a quarter mile at a time.
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Sep 27, 2012 07:56
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SouthLAnd posted:Like this! I'm curious how much just the spoiler would help the look of the current Panamera. They didn't do much to that concept and it looks significantly better.
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Sep 27, 2012 08:04
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KozmoNaut posted:My point was that 6.5 seconds 0-60 is still pretty quick for a hatch that's FWD, has a number of luxury features, is a practical everyday car and gets quite good gas mileage. Quarter-mile would say more than 0-60. Isn't 0-60 heavily, heavily dependent on gearing? I'd rather have better ratios rather than ones optimized for toe 0-60 metric.
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Sep 27, 2012 15:11
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Cream_Filling posted:Quarter-mile would say more than 0-60. Isn't 0-60 heavily, heavily dependent on gearing? Traction more than anything I would think.
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Sep 27, 2012 15:22
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Looks like BMW's new 1-series GT has been officially unveiled at the Paris Motor Show.  I hate the idea of a FWD BMW like everybody else, but that is a damned attractive car. It's going to have a turbo three cylinder engine in it (in addition to being some kind of plug-in hybrid), supposedly. I can see this thing hitting all the right buttons if three things are true: 1. It handles like a MINI Cooper. I see no reason why BMW couldn't do this - I think it's on the same platform as the MINI even. 2. The make a 'hot' version of this car. Maybe with the MINI's turbo-4, or some kind of high-powered hybrid. Maybe an AWD version since MINI seems to not want to make an AWD Cooper. 3. It isn't stupidly expensive (being a new BMW, this is probably not going to happen). I'm hoping they come out with a non-hybrid budget version of this car. It also hasn't been confirmed for NA yet, so for most of us it may be a moot point as to how well this car does. Still, I think it looks pretty damned attractive. CornHolio fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Sep 27, 2012 |
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Sep 27, 2012 16:28
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skipdogg posted:Traction more than anything I would think. I'm sure you're correct, but the number of shifts it takes is definitely an important factor. Bovril Delight posted:I miss my Mk4 GTI. I sometimes miss mine, but then I remember how often it was in the shop, and it makes me glad I now own a Honda.
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Sep 27, 2012 17:14
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From that angle it looks like a riced out Focus. I don't know why they'd spoil the BMW brand with a FWD Mini clone. They could have sold it as alongside the Clubman and Mini Coupe as the Mini Van.
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Sep 27, 2012 17:33
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MrKatharsis posted:From that angle it looks like a riced out Focus. I don't know why they'd spoil the BMW brand with a FWD Mini clone. They could have sold it as alongside the Clubman and Mini Coupe as the Mini Van. They already have a Mini Van. Anyways I doubt they are going to 'spoil' the brand any more when they already have sub-2l diesels over in Europe.
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Sep 27, 2012 17:48
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hifi posted:They already have a Mini Van. Anyways I doubt they are going to 'spoil' the brand any more when they already have sub-2l diesels over in Europe. Err, that's in Europe. Most Americans have no idea they exist. They also don't drive around in BMW and Mercedes taxicabs. A premium brand image takes huge amounts of time and money to cultivate. Risking it isn't a great idea. I find it strange just because Mini is doing just fine bringing them volume. Is undercutting the 3 series really that lucrative? It's not like the A3 makes Audi boatloads of money, either. It feels like it will just cannibalize sales of their RWD cars for people who only care about brand.
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Sep 27, 2012 18:12
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Car sales have been down a lot the past few years and interest from young buyers is particularly low and isn't just based on having no money but seems to include lifestyle choices. The emerging markets are pretty wild and it's hard to tell what they're going to buy. I sometimes think these companies are just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks before they're too unprofitable to experiment.
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Sep 27, 2012 18:30
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CornHolio posted:Looks like BMW's new 1-series GT has been officially unveiled at the Paris Motor Show. GRRR, ANGRY!  If you read the article, they are positioning this car as an urban vehicle that will rarely see the highway. Most likely for people that hate Mini/Audi and want some BMW bling instead of the baby Prius/Fiat/Scion/etc. I could see them all over SF, full of smug, latte sipping, web blogging, trustafarians.  http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=645709
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Sep 27, 2012 18:40
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Minis also have horrible interiors. I know several people who say they'll never buy them because of that. BMW interiors are usually at least functional.
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Sep 27, 2012 18:44
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PeterWeller posted:I'm sure you're correct, but the number of shifts it takes is definitely an important factor. Yes, very true. I know many of the fastest 0-60 cars put of the 2-3 shift until after 60MPH.
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Sep 27, 2012 18:59
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Cream_Filling posted:Minis also have horrible interiors. I know several people who say they'll never buy them because of that. BMW interiors are usually at least functional. I had an '03 and while not the best, it wasn't a GM quality interior or anything. I had no problem with it. I especially liked the toggle switches and the very compact center HVAC/stereo layout. The second generation definitely looks kind of bad, though, like they tried hard to make it look like a toy.
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Sep 27, 2012 19:16
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No photos, unfortunately, since I was driving - but given all of the talk of new 7-series variants coming down the pipeline, I passed a heavily camouflaged sedan cruising down US60 this morning on the way to work that (thanks to the size and obvious kidney grilles) had to be a BMW 7-Series of some sort. Odd to see it in AZ this time of year since it's not even really hot enough to do any hot-weather testing.
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Sep 27, 2012 19:23
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CornHolio posted:I had an '03 and while not the best, it wasn't a GM quality interior or anything. I had no problem with it. I especially liked the toggle switches and the very compact center HVAC/stereo layout. It's not the quality. It's the styling they hate. Especially that giant center-mount speedometer.
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Sep 27, 2012 20:06
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ugh I've lost all faith in BMW. They continue to get uglier and less "ultimate driving machine." Apart from the A7, Audi is putting out way nicer models.
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Sep 27, 2012 20:16
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