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The dog whistles in this thread are so loud I'm going deaf.
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Oct 3, 2012 19:27
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Baby Huey Newton posted:I hope this is supposed to be an inside joke. Talking to people who live in Asia, especially English teachers about Asian culture is like talking to British colonial administrators in India during the Raj. Living in a mostly isolated foreign community while being pampered and treated like an alien is the fastest way to reinforce Orientalist beliefs. Yes, I was absolutely a member of the Modern British Raj, travelling as I was by third-class rail and cheap local busses throughout the entire country, perfecting my Mandarin by yammering on with any local no-shoe-having migrant worker who wanted to chat with the crazy yangguizi sitting in Peasant Class, for the better part of a year. Clearly the ivory tower I was gazing down from gave me altitude sickness. I was the veritable Cow's Vagina. Please just shut the gently caress up already, you idiotic white-knighting smugboat. I probably have more Chinese friends from a more varied background than you've met in your entire life. Bonus laffo points for citing Said, you goddamned caricature of a freshman year, read-one-book subjct matter expert. In the name of Lu Xun, I beseech you: go to your mom.
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Oct 3, 2012 20:00
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Baby Huey Newton posted:I hope this is supposed to be an inside joke. Talking to people who live in Asia, especially English teachers about Asian culture is like talking to British colonial administrators in India during the Raj. Living in a mostly isolated foreign community while being pampered and treated like an alien is the fastest way to reinforce Orientalist beliefs. I know I shouldn't, but...avatar/post combo. 
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Oct 3, 2012 21:30
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Fine-able Offense posted:My experience with my college-age tutors/language buddies while I was at Qingdao University was that they were amazingly naive and immature. These are pictures I took of the official, CPC-approved exhibition. I'm going to go ahead and assume that he hasn't been seen as an "asian Hitler" in the PRC for quite some time. Sorry for the lovely cell-phone pictures but I think you'll get the point.  
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Oct 3, 2012 21:55
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Hedenius posted:Just a quick comment on this. I was in Nanjing this summer and me and my wife went to the China Modern History Museum or Presidential Palace as 99% of people will know it as. That's about Sun Yat-Sen, not Jiang Jieshi (Chang Kai-shek).
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Oct 3, 2012 22:02
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Hedenius posted:Just a quick comment on this. I was in Nanjing this summer and me and my wife went to the China Modern History Museum or Presidential Palace as 99% of people will know it as. Jiang Jieshi is Chiang Kaishek, not Sun Yatsen (Sun Zhongshan). Both the Taiwanese and the Mainlanders do indeed agree that Dr. Sun is the best thing since sliced bread; the difference comes in when they talk about who is the rightful inheritor of legitimate political power post-Sun. The official CCP doctrine is (more or less, depending on political context) that CKS was a fascist dictator who deliberately undermined the war effort against the Japanese because he was more concerned with killing wonderful Communists, among many other real or imagined crimes. There is a tiny bit of nuance creeping into this narrative now that the CCP is attempting rapprochement with a more friendly Taiwanese governing party, but the best they can wrangle is a kind of mute neutrality on the subject matter. Nobody really talks old-timey politics now anyways (outside of intense anti-Japanese sentiment), so it's less of an issue for most people I would suspect. Still, pretty much every television drama I saw on CCTV that addressed the Sino-Japanese war period treated the Nationalists as at best misguided stooges and more often as malicious assholes, and since Jiang was Head Nationalist you can see where the spillover sentiment might come from.
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Oct 3, 2012 22:03
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Baby Huey Newton posted:Like nobody bothers to attack this post, which shows where the priorities lie in the expat community. I've seen it before, we defend our own against the "discrimination" and "craziness" of those Asians around us. This post is literally a republican talking point with Asian "culture" substituted for black "culture", I would recommend you learn what racism is and read the seminal work: Orientalism by Edward Said if you are to speak on the subject. I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm saying that posters here are definitely being ethnocentric in the sense that they are judging the 'maturity' of the people around them based largely upon one aspect, which is to say the sexual maturity/knowledge of Chinese/Korean/Japanese people, which is considered an important part of being an adult individual in the cultures where most of us grew up in. Judging people in this way is questionable, however we have been doing so largely in pursuit of criticizing the effects of the heavily standardized-test driven educational systems of these cultures. This, that the lack of life experience (including in sexual and relationship experience, as has been the focus the past few pages) brought on by the lifestyle that has to be lived in order to be successful in those educational systems, can be emotionally stunting, is a legitimate criticism, which is frequently brought up even within these countries.
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Oct 3, 2012 23:34
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“All knowledge that is about human society, and not about the natural world, is historical knowledge, and therefore rests upon judgment and interpretation. This is not to say that facts or data are nonexistent, but that facts get their importance from what is made of them in interpretation… for interpretations depend very much on who the interpreter is, who he or she is addressing, what his or her purpose is, at what historical moment the interpretation takes place.” -Said I could have picked this quote from basically anybody but I chose to stick with Said. Any serious historian knows that history and politics are determined by ideology and discourse/power relations, that it isn't assumed that westerners speaking on the Orient have an orientalist bias shows that no one here has any sort or academic knowledge of the subject. If you did a PHD thesis on the 'sexual immaturity' of China or the 'innocent "childlike" mind of the Asian' you would be torn to shreds by your peers and probably censured. Chinese culture is made up, it is entirely a projection of Western bias. It is especially ironic, since China is the only country in the world which underwent a cultural revolution, something which has not been mentioned once. There is probably a loosely coordinated urban hegemonic discourse in China, however I have not seen any serious analysis of it in this thread, instead I have seen literal Orientalist tropes from 1800. Sorry but this issue especially grinds my gears, I have met every one of you living in Asia and the ignorance, arrogance, and implicit racism in how you judge the world around you is even more vile in real life. e: for anyone actually interested in picking up aspects of the loose formation of 1.5 billion people we call China, I would recommend: http://www.amazon.com/Fanshen-Documentary-Revolution-Chinese-Village/dp/0520210409 The only book I have ever encountered which approaches a serious study of rural China. Baby Huey Newton fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 00:41
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Fine-able Offense posted:Yes, I was absolutely a member of the Modern British Raj, travelling as I was by third-class rail and cheap local busses throughout the entire country, perfecting my Mandarin by yammering on with any local no-shoe-having migrant worker who wanted to chat with the crazy yangguizi sitting in Peasant Class, for the better part of a year. Clearly the ivory tower I was gazing down from gave me altitude sickness. I was the veritable Cow's Vagina.  (Also what is your avatar from?) This whole discussion is like something out of some right wing joke about "Liberul loonz". Can we discuss something else? One of my Money-Shaman buddies mentioned that some Chinese Banks were withdrawing from some meetings? Apparently this was important? I don't do finance, so I wouldn't really know but has there been any talk about it? Edit: Baby Huey Newton posted:It is especially ironic, since China is the only country in the world which underwent a cultural revolution,  are you loving kidding me Deceitful Penguin fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 00:42
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Baby Huey Newton posted:“All knowledge that is about human society, and not about the natural world, is historical knowledge, and therefore rests upon judgment and interpretation. This is not to say that facts or data are nonexistent, but that facts get their importance from what is made of them in interpretation… for interpretations depend very much on who the interpreter is, who he or she is addressing, what his or her purpose is, at what historical moment the interpretation takes place.” Hahaha, yeah, no one here's heard of Hinton but you, Huey. Did you have these insights into orientalism before or after you sexually exploited Filipino girls?
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Oct 4, 2012 00:47
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Fine-able Offense posted:Yes, I was absolutely a member of the Modern British Raj, travelling as I was by third-class rail and cheap local busses throughout the entire country, perfecting my Mandarin by yammering on with any local no-shoe-having migrant worker who wanted to chat with the crazy yangguizi sitting in Peasant Class, for the better part of a year. Clearly the ivory tower I was gazing down from gave me altitude sickness. I was the veritable Cow's Vagina. Why would you post this? Do you want me to point out the obvious? That poverty tourism does not eliminate privilege and orientalism? No one would dare to post this in the feminism thread, especially with the "I know more _____ than you how can I be racist?" but no one defends Asians because pan-Asian liberation never really got roots in the United States. Plus this thread is a bunch of expats, which is the feminist equivalent of MRA (obviously a bit of hyperbole but you should get the point). If you involve yourself and your life as defense, I have the right to attack it, so I would advise you stay impartian before you get even more personally offended by what are non-personal arguments. Paper Mac posted:Hahaha, yeah, no one here's heard of Hinton but you, Huey. Did you have these insights into orientalism before or after you sexually exploited Filipino girls? Quote for ban
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Oct 4, 2012 00:48
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quote:Background: In recent years, many studies have focused on adolescent's sex-related issues in China. However, there have been few studies of unmarried migrant females' sexual knowledge, attitudes and behaviors, which is important for sexual health education and promotion. Methods A sample of 5156 unmarried migrant female workers was selected from three manufacturing factories, two located in Shenzhen and one in Guangzhou, China. Demographic data, sexual knowledge, attitudes and behaviors were assessed by self-administered questionnaires. Multivariate logistic regression analysis was conducted to examine the factors associated with premarital sexual intercourse. Results The average age of the unmarried female workers included in the sample was 20.2 years, and majority of them showed a low level of sex-related knowledge. Females from the west of China demonstrated a significant lower level of sex-related knowledge than those from the eastern or central provinces (p < 0.05). Approximately 13% of participants held a favorable attitude towards premarital sexual intercourse, and youths from the east/central were more likely to have favorable attitudes compared with those from the west (p < 0.05). About 17.0% of the unmarried female workers reported having engaged in premarital sexual intercourse, and females from the east/central were more likely to have experienced premarital sexual intercourse than those from the west (p < 0.05). Multivariate analysis revealed that age, education, current residential type, dating, sexual knowledge, attitudes, and pattern of communication were significantly associated with premarital sexual intercourse. Conclusion The unmarried migrant female workers lack sexual knowledge and a substantial proportion of them are engaged in premarital sexual behaviors. Interventions aimed at improving their sexual knowledge and related skills are needed. -Sexual Knowledge, attitudes and behaviors among unmarried migrant female workers in China: a comparative analysis This took me literally 12 seconds to find. Jesus loving christ. Edit: and this is just a single loving part of it and even then kinda unrelated to the discussion which was: "People in Chinese College don't seem to know a lot about sex" which is apparently hella racist.
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Oct 4, 2012 00:53
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flatbus posted:I'm also not sure what China is going to use the future aircraft task force for, besides a symbol of pride (which is useful by itself). Extending air cover into the Spratleys? Bingo. How effective it would be is another matter, but it makes overt Chinese at-sea military action in that area (remotely) possible. Without a working carrier the PLAN are just making hissy noises. For any kind of in-shore operation you need to have your CAP on. You can use carriers for fleet scale ASW ops too of course, but I am not sure how pressing that need is. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 01:05
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Baby Huey Newton posted:Why would you post this? Do you want me to point out the obvious? That poverty tourism does not eliminate privilege and orientalism? So, just to clarify: working as an English teacher is modern day imperialism, because you don't ever interact with local people in a meaningful way... but God help you if you dare to study the language and try to travel around like the locals do, because that's "poverty tourism". Did I get that right?  Is there a way of interacting with my Chinese friends you would grant a Papal disposition for? One where I don't pay for sex, mind you, since I find that abhorrent. Baby Huey Newton posted:Quote for ban I'm sure they'll get right on that.
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Oct 4, 2012 01:22
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Congratulations SA on somehow making this thread more of an eyesore than the barrel of laughs that are the forums on https://www.thaivisa.com
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Oct 4, 2012 01:24
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Edit: and this is just a single loving part of it and even then kinda unrelated to the discussion which was: "People in Chinese College don't seem to know a lot about sex" which is apparently hella racist. There were a bunch of posters arguing against several different points in the mess that happened above, but just to clarify, if you're talking about me, that's not my stance at all. My issue was the concomitant value judgment that Chinese students in university behaved like fourteen year olds. I'll gladly take surveys and studies over anecdotes, and if the data shows a lack of sex ed, then I'll trust that to be true. What I find 'hella racist' is the extra inference that westerners are more mature because of that. When you flat-out say your fellow adult students act like fourteen year olds, you're infantilizing an entire group of people. Another issue I have is that the posters linked maturity to sex ed. That just seemed bizarrely sex-driven to me - that is, relating the fact (if the studies posted are methodologically sound) that 'the average Chinese girl doesn't know how to put on a condom' to the opinion of 'the average Chinese girl behaves like a fourteen year old' ignores other, much more mainstream concepts of maturity like discipline and compassion and just makes sex ed the major determiner of a Chinese woman's maturity. LimburgLimbo posted:This, that the lack of life experience (including in sexual and relationship experience, as has been the focus the past few pages) brought on by the lifestyle that has to be lived in order to be successful in those educational systems, can be emotionally stunting, is a legitimate criticism, which is frequently brought up even within these countries. This is a lot more measured and rational than what other posters have been saying. In fact, this is the first time I've heard someone say 'emotionally stunting,' which covers a criterion for maturity besides sex ed. I agree that Chinese students study too hard, and the curriculum could do with reform. However, that in no way makes them immature or ridiculously young. Here's a few things, apart from sex ed, that an adult Chinese person at mid-college age can do that a mature adult can also do: * Take regular showers * Show up to class on time * Organize a bus/train ride for themselves * and the list goes on Arglebargle III posted:you should probably consider who you're talking to before you charge in and accuse people of racism and then admit you don't know much about China in the same breath. Who the gently caress am I talking to? I'd really like to know because I'm not accusing people of racism for social justice points, I'm accusing them because I'm personally affected. I'm a Chinese citizen living in America as an immigrant. When I see other posters talk about Chinese people like children, that's me they're talking about. I don't tolerate that poo poo. And when you say I have no right to speak because you know better than me, well gently caress you. I don't study China, and I don't study postcolonialism, but I sure as hell know what it means to have someone else call a group of people immature because their women don't have exposure to sex ed. It's racism plain and simple.
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Oct 4, 2012 01:59
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Wow, just found this thread. Great OP too. I gotta stop back here more often. I'll be linking this in the China Megathread (T&T) OP. I apologize for posting little of value to the discussion at hand. Please carry on goons.
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Oct 4, 2012 02:19
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GuestBob posted:Bingo. Starting out with a nice cheap baby's-first-carrier isn't a bad thing at all. Takes time to get up to speed on the whole carrier op thing. China's not just gonna rush into it, taking it all slow and steady. Another pair of carriers are being laid down as well in Shanghai which should be good to go this decade. Now as to *why* China needs a carrier. India's got one, Japan essentially has one (even if they claim it's not), Italy, Spain, UK, US, Russia, Brazil, Thailand all have carriers. No one raised questions when they got them or built them. Why is China playing the carrier game? Force projection mainly as a deterrent. The same people who laugh at China for having a "brown water navy" are the ones who are screaming that China has no need for a carrier. Love the double standard. Rush into it with a lovely plan, crash some planes and have problems.... laugh at China. Take it slow and steady? Laugh at China for not immediately having multiple CGBs fully loaded with gen 5 planes. Really?
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Oct 4, 2012 02:26
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Arglebargle III posted:Absolutely this. I remind my Chinese coworkers and friends "我是成年人." or "I am an adult" so often that it's become a running joke. But I've explained it to them and I think they get it. Chinese people, especially Chinese people who work with foreigners a lot, are so used to foreigners being clueless and helpless that it's hard to blame them sometimes. This, this, a thousand times this. I don't like to play the game of "I'm a better expat than you," but his experiences match mine very well and I sometimes feel like some ignorant expats who can't or won't do much by themselves have poisoned the well for others who are more willing to take risks and learn. EDIT: Oh jeez this thread went to poo poo in the period between the post I quoted and now, I'm just going to drop this because it's going nowhere. NaanViolence fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 03:18
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flatbus posted:Who the gently caress am I talking to? I'd really like to know because I'm not accusing people of racism for social justice points, I'm accusing them because I'm personally affected. I'm a Chinese citizen living in America as an immigrant. When I see other posters talk about Chinese people like children, that's me they're talking about. I don't tolerate that poo poo. And when you say I have no right to speak because you know better than me, well gently caress you. I don't study China, and I don't study postcolonialism, but I sure as hell know what it means to have someone else call a group of people immature because their women don't have exposure to sex ed. It's racism plain and simple. Well that's interesting because I think I get where you're coming from now. I'm not trying to deny your experiences - Asians experience a lot of racism in the U.S. especially about their sexuality. It pisses me right off to see the barely-veiled racism of TV shows or movies making fun of Asian men which I think is still a group that people tacitly accept racism against. It also really, really annoys me when comedians do "Asian" accents which is invariably a Japanese accent so stereotyped it barely resembles an actual Japanese accent. And then they use it to impersonate Chinese people. It's disgusting and it makes me sad that westerners are still so pig-ignorant that they lump Japan and China and the rest of East Asia together culturally and have the same prejudiced views about them. I get upset when I think about sending my students to a country where the boys (many of whom are suave dudes) will be devalued as men and the girls are going to be thrust into a culture that sees them as exotic sex objects. I get racism towards Asians in America. Here's the big "but" at the end though - we're not talking about Chinese-Americans in this thread, or even Chinese in America. What people are talking about in this thread is Chinese people in China, raised in Chinese culture. Chinese culture is pretty different than American culture and it produces some disconnects that we expats find at turns fascinating, frustrating, or dismaying. Terrible Chinese sex ed combined with conservative families who never talk about sex, combined with the fact that many Chinese are not allowed to have a real social life between 13 and 18 conspires to make the average young Chinese person's views on sex pretty immature. This is something that generally goes in the "dismaying" category for expats because we wish our friends and significant others had access to that information a lot earlier because it causes nothing but problems. This has nothing to do with race, it is entirely a function of how people are raised and the natural differences that arise when people from different cultures live together. Also we tell jokes and laugh about it sometimes. I understand how you would feel like that's directed at you but it's not. We're just living in a culture that feels crazy sometimes (because of our wicked bad ethnocentrism) and joking about it is natural. Also I was careful not to tell you you don't have the right to speak. Just check what you're quoting. I just think you should cool off and consider that we may not be the right target for your anger at racism in the U.S. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 06:25
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Oct 4, 2012 08:23
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Can I start a 'Hong Kong is racist as gently caress' argument? Because this westernized part of China packed full of liberal values shamelessly keeps southeast Asians in something pretty close to slavery. I wanna get uppity about them because I forgot about Indonesian Muslims in my post about Hong Kong religion. The most fun thing is how the middle class freaks out like it's an attack on them whenever people try to give rights to southeast Asian domestic workers. See the attempts to include them in the minimum wage scheme, or attempts to stop excluding them from the seven year permanent residency (which would give them normal people rights) eligibility. Things like "treating Filipinas and Indonesians like people is an unfair burden on working Chinese!"  My girlfriend's grandmother just fired her Indonesian domestic worker because she suspected her of stealing things. She probably was. The nearby pawn shop has signage in English and a huge portion of their customer base is suspiciously southeast Asian. But I'd probably steal things too if I was paid 4k HKD to work 24/6.
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Oct 4, 2012 09:57
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I am reading through the thread still. Has anyone done a megapost about the gaokao and university placement? I know quite a lot about this subject.
bad day fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 11:09
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Maybe the expats should get their own thread for the productivity of this thread. Nowadays I see a 30 post spike I automatically assume they are arguments I have to page-down over.
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Oct 4, 2012 12:02
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whatever7 posted:Maybe the expats should get their own thread for the productivity of this thread. Nowadays I see a 30 post spike I automatically assume they are arguments I have to page-down over. There is a China thread over in T&T, but I don't think people would be any more inclined to tolerate shrill name calling there either. Bad day if you want a hand with a megapost then hit me up - I can certainly talk the hind legs off a donkey when it comes to the National College English Teaching Syllabus (NCETS).
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Oct 4, 2012 12:22
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Arglebargle III posted:Here's the big "but" at the end though - we're not talking about Chinese-Americans in this thread, or even Chinese in America. What people are talking about in this thread is Chinese people in China As someone born and raised in China, currently living in the US, and holding Chinese citizenship, I hope you understand how that would put me in the category of Chinese that I see other posters offending. Well enough personal talk, looks like everyone's sick of the spat so let's go back to China. The Chinese ambassador to Britain lays out for the British public Chinese claims on Diaoyu islands quote:The Cairo Declaration was a laudable outcome of the war against both Germany, with its repellent Nazism, and Japan, with its equally repugnant military fascism. It stated in explicit terms that: “all the territories Japan has stolen from the Chinese, such as Manchuria, Formosa (Taiwan) and the Pescadores, shall be restored to the Republic of China. Japan will also be expelled from all other territories she has taken by violence and greed.” So it looks like the claim was along the lines of exactly what pro-PRC predicted - citing the Cairo declaration and backing up territorial claims with Chinese maps. He did give more Western-credible map info to corroborate Qing empire maps though: quote:The British authorities supported this sovereignty with maps such as A New Map of China from the Latest Authorities, published in Britain in 1811. Also there is: A Map of China’s East Coast: Hong Kong to Gulf of Liao-Tung, compiled by the British Navy in 1877. Both these maps marked Diaoyu Dao as part of China’s territory. From what I hear in the news, there's no more riots but there's talk of people organizing boycotts (a friend of mine got an email the other day urging him to boycott Japanese goods - he promptly emailed me asking if anything happened with Japan recently ). I thought after a bout of rioting the dispute would be on its way to being over, but with the publishing of that article and Chinese ships re-entering the Diaoyu islands area it looks like I'm wrong. Is there any possibility of the Chinese government actually getting a concession from Japan peacefully? I feel that without military action, all these disputes are like playing bumper cars and no one will actually give anything up if they're not forced to.
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Oct 4, 2012 14:21
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Beyond the usual, China's having the leadership turnover and isn't Japan having elections this year? That seems custom made to make them both extra hardass about any concessions that they think could make them look weak.
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Oct 4, 2012 14:31
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flatbus posted:So it looks like the claim was along the lines of exactly what pro-PRC predicted - citing the Cairo declaration and backing up territorial claims with Chinese maps. He did give more Western-credible map info to corroborate Qing empire maps though: Thanks for this. I do love the seamless "I'll see you the Diaoyu Islands and raise you Taiwan" that he pulls there. The use of "returned" in that particular context is also rather jarring, given established self-determination and suchlike. Also, I am sure eyebrows can be raised about the continued sovereignty and control claims which are made. But it certainly makes a much clearer statement of the legal framework. I would be interested to know how the boundaries of the Royal Navy's map were set - the senior service doesn't just draw lines on charts willy-nilly. Liu Xiaoming posted:History shall not be reversed. We must not forget the untold sufferings incurred during World War II. China and Britain are both victims of fascism. We have shared memories and pains. Chinese and British troops fought side by side on the battleground against Japanese military fascism. It is the common responsibility of China and Britain and the entire international community to reaffirm the outcomes of the war against fascism and maintain the post-war international order. Did the Chinese ambassador just try to play to the Daily Mail crowd? He is really milking the Nazi theme here - I am surprised he didn't cite the occupation of the Channel Islands as some kind of precedent. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 14:46
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GuestBob posted:Did the Chinese ambassador just try to play to the Daily Mail crowd? He is really milking the Nazi theme here - I am surprised he didn't cite the occupation of the Channel Islands as some kind of precedent. I found that amusing too. There was a lot of fascism tossed around and fascist Japan this and that. It could be the ambassador is trying to connect to lingering WWII resentment. Is anti-Nazi sentiment strong in Britain? It's been so long since WWII and Germany's had a PR and institutional makeover so the appeal to fascism doesn't seem stirring enough. It may also be that he wanted to use the word 'imperialist,' which appears zero times in that statement, and figured that Britain might be touchy on the subject of imperialism so used fascism as a substitute instead.
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Oct 4, 2012 15:30
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flatbus posted:From what I hear in the news, there's no more riots but there's talk of people organizing boycotts (a friend of mine got an email the other day urging him to boycott Japanese goods - he promptly emailed me asking if anything happened with Japan recently Definitely boring on that front at the moment. Though, every 7-11 in Chengdu has installed a very large Chinese flag outside their doors since the riots and protests happened. I should go around and see if other Japanese businesses have the same thing going on. The most I see about the islands these days (even in the news, it's been sort of sidelined by some teacher who chokeslammed a young student on camera and general stuff about the holidays) is in ads. Ads everywhere are having Diaoyu Islands are China... SALE!!! Everything 7折！！  I like this one. For those non-Hanzi inclined, the top basically says, "The Diaoyu Islands are China's. Success on the IELTS/TOEFL is yours!!!" I wonder how well a boycott could work, though. Japanese goods and brands, namely stuff like the ubiquitous 7-11, which at least in Chengdu are usually packed and have 10 stores per square kilometer, are very pervasive and seemingly popular here. I really do wonder how many people they could get on board for a boycott. Ailumao fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Oct 5, 2012 |
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Oct 5, 2012 02:36
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It's also National Week here, so they could just be using the Diaoyu Islands thing as a fill-in for the usual holiday sales and propaganda. It'll be interesting to see if this continues into next week. I think many people are forgetting that in addition to the islands dispute this is also the most rah-rah flag-waving week in the Chinese year.
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Oct 5, 2012 02:59
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:Now as to *why* China needs a carrier. India's got one, Japan essentially has one (even if they claim it's not), Italy, Spain, UK, US, Russia, Brazil, Thailand all have carriers. No one raised questions when they got them or built them. Why is China playing the carrier game? Force projection mainly as a deterrent. If you're talking about the Hyuga-class "helicopter destroyer", then Japan has two. They're also building three more even larger carriers, the first of which launches in 2015. Why isn't this all over the media like China's refurb? Apart from the obvious differences (Chinese threat = defense buckaroos), Japan has been enormously successful in co-opting a piece of Chinese strategy that Beijing has abandoned in a fit of clumsy, overeager bluster: Deng Xiaoping's admonition to "...observe calmly; secure our position; cope with affairs calmly; hide our capacities and bide our time; be good at maintaining a low profile; and never claim leadership". In other words, 'walk softly but carry a big stick'. Japan has done this to a remarkable degree, while China has been aggressive and intimidating to an extent not yet fully supported by its actual capabilities. With Japan maintaining a superior force posture against China even with the Article 9/budgetary cap handicaps, one can only imagine what will transpire when the PLAN eventually oversteps and scares Japan into full-on militarization.
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Oct 5, 2012 08:37
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Magna Kaser posted:Definitely boring on that front at the moment. Though, every 7-11 in Chengdu has installed a very large Chinese flag outside their doors since the riots and protests happened. I should go around and see if other Japanese businesses have the same thing going on. Heh, that makes me think of those:   Also, I'd still be interested in what common misconceptions there are about sex and procreation and what kind of information prevails when teaching and family discussion around the subject is very limited. Links to any sociological research about it would also be much appreciated.
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Oct 5, 2012 10:29
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Munin posted:
Deceitful Penguin quoted from one a few posts up, although it didn't seem to mention any particularly amusing misconceptions. Also I know that my parents and many other Irish people of their generation make fun of their own relative lack of knowledge of sex and general acceptance of things like Church doctrine as signs of how their generation were naive and immature (largely as a direct consequence of an education system and general cultural control by the Church). I will have to inform them next time that they're adopting an Orientalist attitude towards Irish catholics of the 1950's and to stop being so damned racist. Or in a less snarky way: Posters saying that the Chinese education system tends to produce students that are focused on the memorisation and acceptance of a a 'fact' based curriculum, especially one that seems to avoid areas of life that we would consider essential knowledge (sex), aren't being racist (at least none of the posters here that I read. I'll accept there probably are assholes who think asians all have the minds of 14 year olds and yes that poo poo is racist). They might be factually incorrect, although my own anecdotal knowledge seems to accord with that and the studies, apparently, back it up. I was on my way to making an :effortpost: but it's furthering the derail and noone cares that much. tl;dr noone in this thread was saying asian college students have the brains of 14 year olds, they were saying that many college kids raised in the asian education system (who tend to be asian) seem to lack the maturity of their counterparts raised in western systems. And yes you see the exact same attitude in the UK towards many American students that come over here who have been raised in rural, conservative communities. Also the Catholic church in China is an odd thing as there's the official church, where the episcopal candidates are selected by the CCP and Rome gets to say which of the three or four priests will get to be in charge of the diocese. There's also an underground church with bishops appointed outside the remit of the CCP. The ban on preaching outside of the churches is an interesting one as well, especially for priests teaching in universities where their theology, technically, shouldn't involve any religious teaching. Although as there are no hard and fast rules I think there's more a reliance on noone saying anything too outrageous to avoid getting into trouble. I have met a few priests who have more or less had to get out of Dodge though after being overly flouting of those sorts of rules.
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Oct 5, 2012 17:23
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I missed that. Having just read it though it only discusses behaviours and the prevalence of certain behaviours rather than the misconceptions and common narratives around these matters. Most of the stuff out there is considering things squarely from a reproductive health perspective rather than a social science one. Whilst that is higher priority in the grand scheme of things I'm more interested in reading/hearing about the latter.
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Oct 5, 2012 17:49
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The funny thing to me about this derail is that my own little anecdote about my friend flipping out and weeping was about politics, not sexuality.
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Oct 5, 2012 17:50
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Suntory BOSS posted:One can only imagine what will transpire when the PLAN eventually oversteps and scares Japan into full-on militarization. Japan going full on militarization is, honestly, a thing that will sink Japan. They simply do not have the resources for it, nor the economy to support such a venture to be honest. It's also one of those things that signals to the rest of asia "Hey look, China was right all along! Japs don't ever change!" Which results in a massive buildup all over. Meanwhile, China has a trump card to play. If Japan ever acts up, I can guarantee, 100%, China will just nuke it into a parking lot, drat the consequences, rather than deal with the crap it went through before.
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Oct 5, 2012 18:05
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:Japan going full on militarization is, honestly, a thing that will sink Japan. They simply do not have the resources for it, nor the economy to support such a venture to be honest. It's also one of those things that signals to the rest of asia "Hey look, China was right all along! Japs don't ever change!" Which results in a massive buildup all over. Meanwhile, China has a trump card to play. If Japan ever acts up, I can guarantee, 100%, China will just nuke it into a parking lot, drat the consequences, rather than deal with the crap it went through before. I'd love to say that it's all just posturing and front and that none of the nations involved are actually stupid enough to start a shooting war over any of this poo poo but phrases involving "End of war in Europe" pop up. Frankly I think it would take more than Japan simply being more open about its militarisation to result in China nuking it from orbit. As long as the US is fully committed and maintains naval bases in the area I think it would require much more in terms of Japanese agression to risk any sort of nuclear war. I could see China openly firing on Japanese vessels in enforcing claimed territorial rights around a flashpoint like the Diaoyu islands but very much restricting the action to, "defence of our own territorial waters" to try and avoid anyone thinking invasion of Japan or similar was the next step. The Chinese definitely want to assert themselves and want to carve a sphere of influence in Asia generally but I don't think they would be willing to risk nuclear war to do it. Nor do I think they seriously give a gently caress about the Japanese navy, as much of a pain as it could be Japan isn't going to be invading China again any time soon. It isn't an existential threat, it's a political boogeyman and I think the part hierarchy aren't about to confuse that distinction.
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Oct 5, 2012 18:15
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MrNemo posted:I'd love to say that it's all just posturing and front and that none of the nations involved are actually stupid enough to start a shooting war over any of this poo poo but phrases involving "End of war in Europe" pop up. Frankly I think it would take more than Japan simply being more open about its militarisation to result in China nuking it from orbit. As long as the US is fully committed and maintains naval bases in the area I think it would require much more in terms of Japanese agression to risk any sort of nuclear war. Anything involving China and Japan will be postured in a way to include Taiwan in on the action. I can almost 100% guarantee it. Creating a fun little situation where the US is forced to break a treaty to favor a side, or to sit back and do nothing. War ain't gonna start over some loving islands. But Japan going militarized, any action in Asia will be closely watched. An actual military action for any reason by Japan... in any way threatening China. Yea, I can see China just going "gently caress it, nuke it". Out here, in the countryside. I can pretty much state for a fact, when talking politics, everyone even remotely aware of the situation knows the US is behind the saber rattling, and if Japan dared to even attempt anything even close to the crap they pulled before, it would be nuking time. If that means sanctions, so be it. If that means retaliation, so be it. There's basically zero trust for Japan, and a lot of people just see it as "a matter of time till Japan shows its true colors again".
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Oct 5, 2012 18:32
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| # ? May 17, 2024 22:17 |
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Why are we presupposing Japan's going to be the aggressor in any shooting war. If anything, all signs point at China being the itchy-fingered one.
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Oct 5, 2012 18:34
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