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DougieFFC posted:Edit: I've been so bogged down by FOTJ that I haven't read Mercy Kill yet - is it any good? Mercy Kill is fantastic, with the caveat that having familiarity with the previous Wraith Squadron books is kind of a must if you want to have any emotional connection with the POV character and some of the things he goes through. Also, don't go into the book expecting a lot of tense dogfights and the like...for a book bearing the "X-Wing" name, there's a distinct lack of snubfighter combat.
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Oct 4, 2012 18:52
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I will say one good thing about LOTF and FOTJ: I've always been a huge fan of NJO and the Yuuzhan Vong in particular. I ate it up back when that series was in full swing. But I distinctly remember everyone back then bitching and moaning about how absolutely terrible the NJO was. But now that we have LOTF and FOTJ to look back on, everyone's chilled out and realized NJO could've been much much worse. jivjov posted:Mercy Kill is fantastic, with the caveat that having familiarity with the previous Wraith Squadron books is kind of a must if you want to have any emotional connection with the POV character and some of the things he goes through. Also, don't go into the book expecting a lot of tense dogfights and the like...for a book bearing the "X-Wing" name, there's a distinct lack of snubfighter combat. I'm about midway through Mercy Kill right now, having never read the previous ones, and it's still very easy to build a connection with the characters. I had tears in my eyes when Bhindi died despite having little to no knowledge of her previously. The book is just so well written you can't help but feel love for the entire crew. Esroc fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 19:04
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I have no problem with the Vong. They shook things up that needed to be shaken up, despite some sci-fi stereotypes and cliches we saw.
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Oct 4, 2012 19:07
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The Vong we got were hugely better than what they were originally supposed to be, too. (Sith exiles who might or might not have had liquid bodies, and Anakin Solo would still have boned one. Also Anakin was going to be killed by Jacen and Jaina due to sibling jealousy.)
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Oct 5, 2012 04:39
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You've got to be making GBS threads me. I knew about the Sith exile thing, but I haven't heard those last two parts.
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Oct 5, 2012 04:46
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The liquid bodies thing came from the original Dark Horse story pitch, so that might not have been included in the original novel-NJO concept. But the Solo kid drama comes from the new Essential Reader's Guide. Not what I was expecting at all. Although it seems like the Anakin romance subplot got recycled into FOTJ with Ben Skywalker and the Sith apprentice.
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Oct 5, 2012 04:52
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I like the basic concept around the vong... Ok maybe I don't. I would have much preferred something that was of similar tech but with a warrior caste to deal with the jedi. When NJO was running, I remember reading the first four books where they made HUUUUGE points that the Vong were so powerful in combat. They beat Jedi in duels, they had black holes, and had self healing armor. Then over the course of two books, the Vong became just your stock enemy with "Shields" replaced by "Black Holes" and the dueling with Jedi thing was phased out in favor of what people liked about jedi... namely them leaping around like a 4 year old with ADD murdering the poo poo out of their enemies. Personally, I'd have much preferred if we had a non-genocidal (Xenocidal?) opponent who was also supposed to be somewhat sympathetic to the readers. And before anyone goes off on me about "They aren't there to be Genocidal!" Realize that they wanted to OWN the galaxy, And were deliberately wiping out entire planets ecosystems, along with those on the planets, in order to remake it in their image.
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Oct 6, 2012 08:21
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The Vong were alright. Obviously you can't keep relying on the Empire or the Hutts or the Sith to be your go-to bad guys all the time. Even though they'd tried the fanatical alien thing before (with the Ssi-Ruuk and the Yevetha), the Vong were different enough to make the necessary impression.
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Oct 6, 2012 11:28
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All this discussion of Vong has me thinking. I've never read the huge series - NJO, Legacy, FotJ. And there're some opinions saying they're OK. But my concern is the *density* of the plot. In the Zahn books, they're super-dense with interwoven and perfectly-fitting plot. But I can't imagine that kind of story working over nine books, or the twenty-odd in NJO. Surely they must have very little actual content? I'm guessing here - I've never read nor even looked at one of those books - but is there any meat on those bones?
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Oct 8, 2012 08:28
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EddieDean posted:All this discussion of Vong has me thinking. I've never read the huge series - NJO, Legacy, FotJ. And there're some opinions saying they're OK. But my concern is the *density* of the plot. The anwser to this really varies. Some books have a good amount of depth to them, like Traitor and Destiny's Way. Others, like the Agents of Chaos duology or the awful Force Heretic trilogy are bone dry.
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Oct 8, 2012 08:31
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VaultAggie posted:The anwser to this really varies. Some books have a good amount of depth to them, like Traitor and Destiny's Way. Others, like the Agents of Chaos duology or the awful Force Heretic trilogy are bone dry. The FH trilogy aren't even a real trilogy. They're part of a 5-book set that comprises the end of the entire arc, and I couldn't imagine how pissed people must have been to read that trilogy back when it was the latest thing out, and have so little to show for it.
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Oct 8, 2012 09:49
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The meta series, like NJO etc, can't really have plots that are tie to close together, otherwise you wind up with characters going in wildly different directions, or just having the plots get fubared because one author doesn't care about the plot, while another puts ALL of his care and talent into the plot. It's why you usually see a "main line" of books that are written by one guy for any series. that way the main characters and big players in the setting are always written consistently by the same guy, and his plots can move the world along. Once you change authors, they will inevitably change the character to suit their own needs and their own writing style. Which is why Luke can go from sensitive lover to christian to jesus to "rebel" in a string of four books. And he's an already realized character, while people like Wedge, or Dalaa or Palleon end up getting RADICALLY changed between writers.
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Oct 8, 2012 17:26
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There was a Star Wars Insider article some years ago which explained that the "core" of the NJO series was supposed to be the five books that were originally published in hardcover (which I think were Vector Prime, Balance Point, Star By Star, Destiny's Way and The Unifying Force). They were meant to be the backbone of the series, while the paperback instalments would be the meat on the bones. Sometimes NJO feels more like it was meant to be a major status quo shift to facilitate a kind of new setting for new adventures rather than an especially lengthy series. To an extent I suppose that's what it was, but at the same time, Legacy Of the Force read like it was trying to pick up where Zahn's duology left off and ignore the largest developments of the NJO aside from a few token mentions here and there before retreating into a more familiar storytelling landscape.
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Oct 8, 2012 21:42
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Probably because there was to much tossing of the Status Quo, and backwards development of the storyline... The capital is lost New Republic falls... and is replaced by a new "Alliance" Jedi temple falls Chewie and Anakin die And so on. It's just to much for people who were fans to accept, and to alien for new fans (brought in by the prequels mind you) to understand. For them it was like the Wierd Al song, "Everything you Know is wrong" because of just HOW FAR the status had changed. I'm all for fictional evolution, but it needs to be designed that it's still recognizable to new fans of the other media, and it needs to not completely stab it's long time fans in the guts by throwing out the rules and replacing them.
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Oct 9, 2012 06:38
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Calax posted:Probably because there was to much tossing of the Status Quo, and backwards development of the storyline... gently caress you for sticking that song in my head. I swear the synapse connected to that song delights in reconnecting and devouring my brain. And I agree with your point, with the best part being that it didn't actually do anything. 3 full arcs later and we're still obsessed with the same movieland main characters, with more good EU characters being thrown under the bus at an alarming rate in an attempt to be "new' and "edgy". My only glimmer of hope: Scoundrels can't come soon enough, and Mercy Kill better be the start of A Thing.
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Oct 9, 2012 09:52
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A lot of the change just felt like a very special episode of DeGrassi where you can just picture the writers  ing to themselves and saying "Yeah, we went there"
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Oct 9, 2012 17:45
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Ursine Asylum posted:gently caress you for sticking that song in my head. I swear the synapse connected to that song delights in reconnecting and devouring my brain. That's the thing, to me at least, The editorial staff at LucasBooks is staffed by two entirely different groups... and they've drawn a line between the cubicles and have food fights every friday. One side is the Business crew, in their suits and ties, trying to squeeze every last dollar from the franchise until the last hoof of the cow crumples to dust from a lack of water. They want that status quo maintained so that the people who see the trilogies will be able to come in and say "LUKE! The other side are the Artists (pronounce it ArTEEEEEST). These hippies don't want to be constrained by Your Rules MAAAAAN! They want a progression from characters that have been established and cannot change, to characters that they themselves created within the media. MAAAAAAN! And they don't want to let their fellow Artists get in the way of how THEY think that the EPICNESS of Darksaber should be Handled! The fight between these two groups has led to many a death, and many a retcon, and many a revamp. We saw what happened when the Artists won... and when they lost all within the NJO. Realistically the fans of the older trilogy are old enough you could start yutzing around with adult themes if you REALLLLY wanted to, but I suspect it'd probably be better to toss the property into the hands of somebody who has proven they can write well within an established universe, and is able to click in with the audience fairly well. You know, Jeff Grubb! (And now I can't get Game of Thrones:Lightsaber Edition out of my head...) Edit: I am just a fan and thus none of my words can be taken as actually having any truth to them in regards to the Friday food fights.
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Oct 10, 2012 07:06
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Star Wars fandom, no matter what section (Games, Books the actual movies) will always be divided into two camps wanting different things. In the hands of a company and creator who would give a gently caress outside earning the green this could have been solved years ago. Sadly Star Wars will always hover back and forth between Time Capsule Nerd Comfort Food and Eye Rollingly Over The Top Madness.
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Oct 10, 2012 11:24
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On a completely unrelated note, I was reading the wookiepedia article about Wes Janson, and apparently Ian Liston, who played him in Empire Strikes Back, has read the books that janson is in, met Aaron Allston a few times, and approves of the way that the character was developed. It's very 
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Oct 11, 2012 03:29
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Beardless posted:On a completely unrelated note, I was reading the wookiepedia article about Wes Janson, and apparently Ian Liston, who played him in Empire Strikes Back, has read the books that janson is in, met Aaron Allston a few times, and approves of the way that the character was developed. It's very Stuff likes this makes me very happy. What about the real life actors of the other Rogues?
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Oct 11, 2012 03:31
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I know the guy who played Wedge voiced him in one of the Rogue Squadron games and did a few audiobook narrations. He's also the real-life uncle of Ewan McGreggor.
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Oct 11, 2012 04:00
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Chairman Capone posted:I know the guy who played Wedge voiced him in one of the Rogue Squadron games and did a few audiobook narrations. He's also the real-life uncle of Ewan McGreggor. Denis Lawson. Also appeared in BBC's Jekyll.
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Oct 11, 2012 04:04
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NGL posted:Denis Lawson. Also appeared in BBC's Jekyll. Haha, drat. Never realized that was him. I did somehow recognize General Madine in Luther, though.
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Oct 11, 2012 04:08
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NGL posted:Denis Lawson. Also appeared in BBC's Jekyll. A series by Steven Moffat with Denis Lawson playing a character? Sign me the hell up. Thank you for this information.
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Oct 11, 2012 04:35
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Don't forget Porkins was the corrupt cop (Eckhardt) in the first Batman movie. Also one of the Army guys from Raiders of the Lost Ark. Fake Edit: I don't actually know if Porkins was just a random pilot or part of Rogue Squadron.
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Oct 11, 2012 14:28
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Porkins was Red Squadron, he never lived to see Rogue Squadron as he was too busy partying down with a bucket of space KFC with the other dead Rebel dudes in the Star Wars after life. That reminds me, time to check Blue Milk Special!
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Oct 11, 2012 15:44
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Albu-quirky Guy posted:Don't forget Porkins was the corrupt cop (Eckhardt) in the first Batman movie. Also one of the Army guys from Raiders of the Lost Ark. he played some weird stalker/rapist dude in a cyberpunk movie I watched. he spied on this chick undressing via telescope then went over to rape her. it was really really weird. edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_(film)
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Oct 11, 2012 15:50
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Albu-quirky Guy posted:Don't forget Porkins was the corrupt cop (Eckhardt) in the first Batman movie. Also one of the Army guys from Raiders of the Lost Ark.  Porkins is probably the first guy I heard swear in a movie! ("I say: you're full of poo poo Knox...oh, you can quote me on that.")
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Oct 11, 2012 22:42
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SeanBeansShako posted:Porkins was Red Squadron, he never lived to see Rogue Squadron as he was too busy partying down with a bucket of space KFC with the other dead Rebel dudes in the Star Wars after life. Has he ever appeared in the EU as a Force ghost?
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Oct 12, 2012 00:22
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No, but there was a holographic memorial for him in the Rogue Squadron comics:
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Oct 12, 2012 00:26
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Urdnot Fire posted:No, but there was a holographic memorial for him in the Rogue Squadron comics: Forever memorialized saying "Yeaaaah, I hosed that up."
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Oct 12, 2012 00:42
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Forever memorialized saying "Yeaaaah, I hosed that up." That art reminds me of the little comic that was basically a recap of Wedge's character from the movies that came in... applejacks? The only major thing I remember about it was that this giant tower was special to a bunch of locals, and wedge used it to topple it on a pile of tiefighters and a "disguised" Luke gave the exposition. And did nobody seriously figure out my joke? Also JESUS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8czqAf5qek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQncep_VQn4
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Oct 12, 2012 06:44
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"Or the lucky Wookie."
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Oct 15, 2012 11:22
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Forever memorialized saying "Yeaaaah, I hosed that up." The dude was basically a space redneck who got in because like Luke he was real good at shooting them (space crab as opposed to space rat) critters in his own little T-16 Sky Hopper. I'd totally read a Infinities comic if somehow HE was the force sensitive dude who made the shot, survived and revived the Jedi Order though.
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Oct 15, 2012 15:30
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This new Star Wars comic book looks interesting. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_(Dark_Horse) I'm not into comic books at all is this Brian Wood guy any good? I looked through his other works and it seemed kind of silly
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Oct 16, 2012 08:07
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According to the summary of the first issue provided on Wookieepedia:quote:This is Star Wars as you remember it... and as you have never seen it before! We're taking you back to those heady, adventure-filled days following the destruction of the Death Star—when the Empire ruled, the Rebels were on the run, and the galaxy was a dangerous place where anything might happen! It sounds a lot like the Marvel Star Wars series. Of course, last time Dark Horse published a series that was simply called Star Wars it turned out to be one of the best Star Wars comics they've ever had, so who can say what it'll be like.
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Oct 16, 2012 11:40
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It's an old video but somehow it's gotten better with age, due to the pink vader costume: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X9NFknjTRE&t=12s
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Oct 16, 2012 15:24
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SeanBeansShako posted:The dude was basically a space redneck who got in because like Luke he was real good at shooting them (space crab as opposed to space rat) critters in his own little T-16 Sky Hopper. All lightsabers are hence forth to be crafted from empty Natty Ice cans and skoll tins. The focus crystals will come from mama's good rhinestone jewelry.
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Oct 19, 2012 18:50
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I used to be all into the EU books when I was younger. I want to say I read most all of the important ones. I remember getting up to the point where those Yuzhan Vong(sp?) aliens were causing all kinds of hell, I sort of didn't care for that whole thing and got distracted and quit. Now, I wouldn't mind picking back up at a point right after all that. I prefer to read in order of continuity if I can help it. I may be wrong, but I want to say I heard New Jedi Order was a good place to start after the Yuzhan Vong. Can anyone shed some light here? Also which book/series was the one where Chewbacca died?
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Oct 20, 2012 23:59
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BlazinLow305 posted:Now, I wouldn't mind picking back up at a point right after all that. I prefer to read in order of continuity if I can help it. I may be wrong, but I want to say I heard New Jedi Order was a good place to start after the Yuzhan Vong. Can anyone shed some light here? Also which book/series was the one where Chewbacca died? The NJO is the series with the Yuuzhan Vong and where Chewie dies. I liked the NJO, but I think it has probably a 50/50 rating among goons in this thread. After that is the Legacy of the Force series and then the Fate of the Jedi series. LotF is poo poo, and FotJ is not quite as bad but still not great.
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Oct 21, 2012 00:03
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