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Above Our Own posted:If Kvothe interfered with the moon he would disrupt the barrier between the normal world and the fae realm and you've have dangerous fae creatures roaming the land hey wait a minute. This is entirely possible and it fits his character well. Look back to when he was learning sympathy from Ben and he bound his breath to the air trying to show Abenthy how clever he was. Turns out he wasn't smart and almost killed himself. I can see that same type of situation playing out only on a much larger scale with the moon. Perhaps he realizes what a total gently caress up he is and he locked his name/power in the chest in the inn so he wouldn't be able to gently caress anything up anymore. If that is the case imagine what Bast will do when he gets to that part of the story. I would really love these books if Bast gets super pissed and murders Kvothe at the end of it.
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Jun 17, 2012 01:44
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I think it's much more likely that he releases Iax from imprisonment and Iax fucks with the moon. But it boils down to the same thing of him needing to hide himself, either out of fear of what he might do himself or because Iax / The Amyr / The Chandrian want to use him in some way.
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Jun 17, 2012 02:21
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Given the author's attachment to the character and going off a hunch about how self-insert characters usually play out, I think it's going to be Kvothe who does the world-loving. Because, you know, he's just so awesome he can't control it.
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Jun 17, 2012 03:08
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Is this the correct thread to whinge about the second book being loving awful?
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Jun 17, 2012 05:09
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Marching Powder posted:Is this the correct thread to whinge about the second book being loving awful? Have you finished it yet? If not, then just wait until you get to the part with Felurian. It makes the whole read worthwhile.
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Jun 17, 2012 05:49
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Democratic Pirate posted:Denna is the moon but Auri got split off from her and is hiding at the University being all weird and then Kvothe ends up in a threesome with them and binds them back together using his magic fairy sex powers Then I'm afraid you have no future in writing self-insert fantasy.
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Jun 17, 2012 10:46
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FiddlersThree posted:Have you finished it yet? If not, then just wait until you get to the part with Felurian. It makes the whole read worthwhile. gently caress you. Apparently it's only 70 pages long and it felt like an eternity. I really enjoyed the first book. I dislike fantasy (except for grrm) but holy poo poo the first book. Is there a consensus as to whether or not the second book is only bad when compared to the first book or is it just really bad?
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Jun 17, 2012 10:57
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In my opinion, the second book is only readable because it's the sequel to a pretty good book and that it's not a strong enough novel in itself to overcome the awful parts. I'd never recommend it as a standalone novel without some serious editing, even ignoring the "middle book" syndrome any second novel will have. Compare that to a trilogy like The First Law or The Gentleman Bastard Series; I think Before They Were Hanged (the second novel) is a great read and doesn't rely on the merits of the first book at all, while Red Seas Under Red Skies is a weaker book than The Lies of Locke Lamora, but still great fun to read regardless of whether you've read the first novel or not. I've actually recommended Before They Were Hanged to a couple of people as a lone book and they've both loved it. Obviously Patrick Rothfuss' books place more importance on a consistent thread/plotline/details from novel to novel, but I'd still argue that The Wise Man's Fear doesn't stand up as a good novel by itself. The Supreme Court fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Jun 17, 2012 |
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Jun 17, 2012 14:43
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Marching Powder posted:Is there a consensus as to whether or not the second book is only bad when compared to the first book or is it just really bad? Why do you give a poo poo about the consensus? Just form your opinion and talk about it.
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Jun 17, 2012 17:44
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Above Our Own posted:Given the author's attachment to the character and going off a hunch about how self-insert characters usually play out, I think it's going to be Kvothe who does the world-loving.
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Jun 17, 2012 19:51
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There's also been very little lead in to set up another character, so it would kind of blindside the narrative a bit. I suspect Kvothe did some wizardry so crazy that it fundamentally altered the world and his alar probably "broke" under the strain. This possibility is reinforced (and maybe even forshadowed) in the text by both the character Elodin and his visit to the rookery where he's told outright that attempting magic beyond one's grasp can shatter the mind.
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Jun 18, 2012 00:35
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Kvothe also has compared his alar to ramston steel. In the second book a ramston steel knife is said to be the best knife you'll ever have... until it breaks.
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Jun 18, 2012 00:52
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Above Our Own posted:There's also been very little lead in to set up another character, so it would kind of blindside the narrative a bit. I suspect Kvothe did some wizardry so crazy that it fundamentally altered the world and his alar probably "broke" under the strain. This possibility is reinforced (and maybe even forshadowed) in the text by both the character Elodin and his visit to the rookery where he's told outright that attempting magic beyond one's grasp can shatter the mind. I'm sure I'm influenced in my Iax theory by that reread, though, which gave the mercenary woman's story a weight about the creation of Fae and Iax's part in all of it that I hadn't caught much of in the original. It seems less messy, so I want it all to tie up to that. 
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Jun 18, 2012 02:50
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After starting on the second book, it still reads to me like a college-movie. A well written college movie by all means. And I also feel that the Denna parts are the weakest. I find myself skipping some of them from shere boredom. Maybe its the mysogynist in me, but i rather dislike that character.
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Oct 3, 2012 08:49
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Actually I think it's the misogyny in the author that makes all the Denna scenes so awful.
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Oct 3, 2012 18:31
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Has there been any word on the next book?does the editor/publisher have it? I know he's stated that he had them all written. Also to the poster above, he's not a misogynist, he says so right here: http://blog.patrickrothfuss.com/2012/10/fanmail-faq-the-f-word/
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Oct 4, 2012 05:52
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to summarize; hes the big spoon.
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Oct 4, 2012 08:20
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Ikonoklast posted:to summarize; hes the big spoon. The big, fat, hairy spoon.
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Oct 4, 2012 16:05
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I really wish I had never read anything Rothfuss wrote outside the books so I could go on naively believing that the way women are treated is just because the protagonist is a child.
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Oct 4, 2012 18:07
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I don't think Rothfuss is a misogynist. He doesn't really hate women. Nor does he really seem to think they're inferior. He just doesn't think they're people. Which is still bad.
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Oct 5, 2012 07:31
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Not thinking women are people makes a misogynist, bro.
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Oct 5, 2012 16:34
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anathenema posted:I don't think Rothfuss is a misogynist. He doesn't really hate women. Nor does he really seem to think they're inferior.
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Oct 5, 2012 18:39
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Yeah, that was a pretty stupid thing of me to say. But for as much as I dislike the narrative, I don't think Rothfuss is a legitimate bad guy. He has some pretty messed-up ideas about women, of course.
anathenema fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Oct 5, 2012 |
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Oct 5, 2012 21:41
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"Belief that women aren't normal people" might be a better definition of misogyny. That thing about wanting a girl to jump into his arms at a horror movie is so "Ha ha, oh what a guy I am! Aren't I lovable?" Rothfuss is uniquely frustrating in that he's about 75% as clever as he thinks he is. It's still clever and fun enough to be enjoyable reading, but every time something interesting happens, it's undercut by the way you can feel him patting himself on the back for it. I'm in the strange position of eagerly awaiting Doors of Stone and just as eagerly hoping it ends with unsalvageable tragedy and Kvothe hosed in every way. I'm squarely on Team Evil Tree.
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Oct 6, 2012 00:41
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Above Our Own posted:Actually I think it's the misogyny in the author that makes all the Denna scenes so awful. I've been desperately hoping that Kvothe is just an unreliable narrator trying to portray it as some epic romance when he basically stalked her and she ended up dead because of him. He's regarded as this amazing hero who saved the world and he's a depressed man running a bar. He must have seriously hosed up/murdered the wrong people is is just trying to avoid facing it. All the crazy sex scenes and seeing that fairy tree you apparently get killed for gazing on, I would love it if the whole mystique falls apart and he tells the curator he's just a slick con man who murdered people and took credit for their deeds. drkhrs2020 fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Oct 6, 2012 |
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Oct 6, 2012 00:54
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Thinky Whale posted:I'm in the strange position of eagerly awaiting Doors of Stone and just as eagerly hoping it ends with unsalvageable tragedy and Kvothe hosed in every way. I'm squarely on Team Evil Tree. Doesn't it just live in a tree?
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Oct 6, 2012 03:20
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Thinky Whale posted:Rothfuss is uniquely frustrating in that he's about 75% as clever as he thinks he is. It's still clever and fun enough to be enjoyable reading, but every time something interesting happens, it's undercut by the way you can feel him patting himself on the back for it. But, the tree! The tree. I don't think it just lives in a tree, RichestManInTown. I seem to recall it being a tree. And that three, along with Kvothe's constant fuckups in framing narrative set in the present, let me hold out hope that this will all end in tears.
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Oct 6, 2012 03:32
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Yeah, I think it is actually in the tree somewhere, but we never see it, so it's funnier to think of as just an evil tree. I think the worst part of the sex fairy is she speaks without capital letters to show how sexy her voice is and after a while they both speak in rhyme and I started gargling and foaming at the mouth from tweeness poisoning.
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Oct 6, 2012 03:38
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Pat's latest Storyboard video (with Cherie Priest, Brandon Sanderson, and Terry Brooks) is over an hour long and by thirty minutes in I felt like I needed to jump in and rescue his guest hosts, who must be perfect stoics to have lasted through that egomaniac's shambling, mastubatory self-praise-a-thon without rolling their eyes on camera. Pat is desperate to be thought of not only as smart but as unique. It's evident in every one of his interviews. He should be smart enough to realize he's doing it--the man has natural talents--but again and again he says things like how his work transcends the standard plot outline model and how his work is less of a traditional structure than a search for truth. I thought I would never want to punch a fantasy author in the face more than China Mieville, but I was wrong. Pat must be insufferable to hang out with for any extended period of time. Cherie Priest on the other hand, comes across as adorable, poised and intelligent. Brandon is meek, funny and thoughtful. Even Terry Brooks seems like someone I could talk to for hours, and I don't like his books. I wish I could unwatched/unlisten/unread all Pat's blogs and media, because I really enjoyed book I, even though there was evidence suggesting the author was a bit of a tool. Book II not so much, though parts were memorable, and my opinion of Rothfuss changed to confirmed tool unleashed by sudden success. And with book III I'm afraid it will be worse..
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Oct 6, 2012 03:55
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BananaNutkins posted:Pat's latest Storyboard video (with Cherie Priest, Brandon Sanderson, and Terry Brooks) is over an hour long and by thirty minutes in I felt like I needed to jump in and rescue his guest hosts, who must be perfect stoics to have lasted through that egomaniac's shambling, mastubatory self-praise-a-thon without rolling their eyes on camera. For a long time things looked grim (Kvothe's parents get killed and he's a poor wittle orphan; Rothfuss toils in obscurity for a million years on his epic fantasy novel), but then things suddenly look up, thanks largely to the protagonist's talents and a bit of luck. Kvothe gets into the university, Rothfuss publishes a successful and praised first book. Then, things appear to improve, although things to worry about seem to seep in through the edges and grow much more pronounced. Kvothe ends up being bros with super powerful people, learns how to be a ninja, and is a sex god, but the evil tree fucks him over forever and something's definitely wrong with him in the present. Meanwhile, Rothfuss appears to maybe not have as good a grip on things as he first appeared, largely because Kvothe turned into a sex god and learned how to be a ninja and also because he says a bunch of stupid and often misogynistic stuff, which, combined with his belief that he's a pretty great feminist, spells trouble. Finally, tragedy. Whatever happens to Kvothe happens to Kvothe, and the third book is as bad as we're hoping it isn't and it turns out Rothfuss was all the while just managing to cleverly hide the fact that he's about as sophisticated as the your average fantasy writer. He squeaked by on some good prose and some good ideas for a while but you can only keep your awful ideas at bay for so long before they pop up in your massive fantasy trilogy.
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Oct 6, 2012 04:11
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drkhrs2020 posted:I've been desperately hoping that Kvothe is just an unreliable narrator trying to portray it as some epic romance when he basically stalked her and she ended up dead because of him. And even if the author is an unreliable narrator that doesn't excuse Rothfuss' numerous blog posts.
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Oct 6, 2012 07:57
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Above Our Own posted:I think it'd be awful even if that happened since the unreliable narrator theory that keeps popping up in here has almost no grounding in the text. It would be a blindside out of left field and that's lovely writing.
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Oct 6, 2012 16:52
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It certainly would have grounding. He's been called a lair flat out by Bast, he's said over and over he's a natural storyteller and can exaggerate, etc. That said, I don't think he's an unreliable narrator anymore -- at least not in any sense that matters.
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Oct 6, 2012 17:24
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Above Our Own posted:I think it'd be awful even if that happened since the unreliable narrator theory that keeps popping up in here has almost no grounding in the text. It would be a blindside out of left field and that's lovely writing. Sorry, unreliable narrator is the wrong term. Kvoth was was the son of a traveling gypsy, and is an amazing dissembler. Unreliable isn't accurate but he comes off as an skilled storyteller giving 'the real story' that people want to hear. The whole point of the scribe's travels was to get the inside scoop on the legend of the Kingkiller. Kvoth still hasn't left the university, and the bulk of his legend happened after that. Covering a larger timeline in 1 book means he can't keep the pacing he's at, and the crazy backstory about the Chandrian and the Amyr will be a infodump at best. Rothfuss seems pretty talented, but I think a lot of the mystery presented will never be properly explained unless it directly relates to Kvoth, and maybe the last 1/3, 1/4 of the book would recount Kvoth confessing the truth to Bast and Bast killing him in anger. Going back over their encounters, Bast seems to be getting angrier and angrier that the 'real' Kvoth isn't re-emerging. The Supreme Court posted:Compare that to a trilogy like The First Law It's not fair to compare any fantasy author to Joe Abercrombie because he writes better then Pulitzer prize winners. drkhrs2020 fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Oct 6, 2012 |
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Oct 6, 2012 20:52
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I'm looking forward to finishing the series, but I can't help feeling that a poo poo ton has happened but it hasn't been the poo poo ton of stuff I want to know about.
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Oct 6, 2012 22:36
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RE unreliable narrator, I'm just going to shamefully quote my own self because this is the main reason I think that theory is bullshit.Above Our Own posted:For those of you who still think Kvothe is an unreliable narrator who is lying to embellish his story, just think about it for two seconds. There are already legends of this insane magical badass flying around and Kvothe is perfectly content to let people believe those legends; he halfway invented them.
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Oct 7, 2012 00:48
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The unreliable narrator doesn't mean he has to be making up things. He can just be wrong, exaggerating, or see his story with a strong bias. But I'm not really arguing because like I said, I don't think that's the case.
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Oct 7, 2012 00:54
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And the answer to "why make poo poo up now?" is because this way he can have the canonical version of his life story turn out exactly how he likes it for however long that version lasts. If someone gave you the chance to determine how history would remember you, wouldn't you at least be tempted to make yourself into a badass, retroactively?
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Oct 7, 2012 01:04
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On the last page Kvothe goes "Nah I was just loving with you guys, none of that really happened" and walks out of the bar. This somehow redeems all flaws with the story up until this point.
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Oct 7, 2012 01:19
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Democratic Pirate posted:I'm looking forward to finishing the series, but I can't help feeling that a poo poo ton has happened but it hasn't been the poo poo ton of stuff I want to know about. I'm still eagerly awaiting the king killing part of these chronicles.
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Oct 7, 2012 02:20
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