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tarepanda posted:On the other hand, you can do ANYTHING you can code in C, rather than being limited to in-game scripting. Want to make a completely different skill system? Done. Body parts instead of HP? Done. Yeah, but that's not a feature you get from doing everything in C, it's a feature you get from having access to the source code for the MUD core regardless of what it's written in (which is surely the case for most if not all MUDs, right?). You can say exactly the same about a MUD written in, say, Python (and more, if there's in-game access to the code). And having it in something other than C, or having a minimal C core with scripting wrapped around it, lets you do a lot more with respect to in-game editing and hot-reloading of game logic. quote:Most decent MUDs would run two copies, or three -- the main port, a test port for code testing, and a build port for building/build testing. Once things were tested and verified, they'd be rolled out to the main MUD. All of the MUDs I played on had copyover/hotcopy, which would let the MUD restart without anyone losing connections or states. That makes sense, and is something I hadn't at all thought of.
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Oct 10, 2012 03:04
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ToxicFrog posted:Yeah, but that's not a feature you get from doing everything in C, it's a feature you get from having access to the source code for the MUD core regardless of what it's written in (which is surely the case for most if not all MUDs, right?). You can say exactly the same about a MUD written in, say, Python (and more, if there's in-game access to the code). Yeah, I wasn't trying to imply that it was something that was only because of C -- it's just that all of the MUD codebases I know (with the exception of SMAUG [C++]) are coded in C. Hotbooting really isn't the nuisance people seem to be making it out to be. You do your source changes, compile, then just type copyo[ver] to save states and restart the MUD -- it takes a second or two, then your changes are live. OLC/mprogs let you build live without coding or anything, too, so it's not like a ROM MUD suffers from huge penalties in not being able to "see" things live.
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Oct 10, 2012 03:48
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You do have to find M/R/Oprog snippets that aren't leaky piles of poo poo though, or make your own. I remember on one game I was lead builder on, we had a nasty bug with MProgs where the trigger section on the mobile's creation sheet would be replaced with a random objects short description. Boy I don't think we ever got to the bottom of that one. Good times.
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Oct 10, 2012 04:20
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Yeah... I was never a huge fan of progs because nobody could make them worth a drat.
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Oct 10, 2012 04:58
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Pochoclo posted:The bit about the no who list got me doubting. That sounds like Galactic Insights or Knights of Darkness. Knights of Darkness is popular for I have no clue why, they have an actual coded system where you can have sex with people and get them pregnant (not in an ironic way or deliberately shocking manner like HellMOO) and it really sounds like you tried KoD. There is a big smattering of blue (I remember a lot of their room descs being light blue last time I tried it) and they have a who list. A lot of SWRs are very poorly run, LOTJ does actually care about its pbase and people creeping on other players does get actively policed.
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Oct 10, 2012 05:07
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I loved grunting out cool special effects with progs, it took a lot of time and effort to do even minor poo poo but it was fun. Best triumphs: A hidden trap door in the center of a 3x3 cathedral floor where you did some Resident Evil style statue re-arrangement in the far north corners (basically push statue command rotated it), making angels point to the center of the room to open the door. Was a bitch and a half to get right, but you could even start at one or the other to do it. A gambling game where you paid an NPC 10 platinum coins to start a game, he'd juggle some balls in the air then hide one under a cup randomly and you'd have to guess the color of the ball under the cup (out of 4), you'd win 39 platinum coins for a win, but with a 1:4 chance the house always came out ahead. Players were addicted as gently caress to it even though they knew it was a loser. That's streak and luck believers for ya. loving nesting if checks and calling other progs and ugh.
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Oct 10, 2012 05:12
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FordPRefectLL posted:That sounds like Galactic Insights or Knights of Darkness. Knights of Darkness is popular for I have no clue why, they have an actual coded system where you can have sex with people and get them pregnant Sounds like the GodWars codebase.
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Oct 10, 2012 05:12
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Seconding what people said about copyovers and OLC. There was almost always a testing copy of the code running for developers to gently caress around in and modded OLC was robust enough for the builders. tarepanda posted:Yeah... I was never a huge fan of progs because nobody could make them worth a drat. That pentagram dagger I posted about eventually got one to make it sing by itself randomly because it wasn't annoying enough already. As far as mobprogs are concerned, someone implemented the Great Mighty Poo from Conker's Bad Fur Day as a 3-stage boss at one point. Complete with the singing. Same guy also implemented Pikmin for god knows what reason. They'd clean corpses up for you! and also eventually crash the game from exponential reproduction E: At one point I coopted the pikmin script to build a little circular dystopian city area that had a roving police bot who would randomly murder the area's NPCs and drag the corpses into the incinerator in the center of the city. That was a fun area. bucketmouse fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Oct 10, 2012 |
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Oct 10, 2012 06:16
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FordPRefectLL posted:That sounds like Galactic Insights or Knights of Darkness. Knights of Darkness is popular for I have no clue why, they have an actual coded system where you can have sex with people and get them pregnant (not in an ironic way or deliberately shocking manner like HellMOO) and it really sounds like you tried KoD. There is a big smattering of blue (I remember a lot of their room descs being light blue last time I tried it) and they have a who list. Actually I think it might have been Unsung Heroes. It doesn't help that like the top 10 star wars muds on mudstats.com are so goddamn similar.
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Oct 10, 2012 13:28
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Since we're on the topic of player annoyance devices, I want to brag about my personal favorite. I made a spell named "chibichibification" that turned the target PC into a clone of Chibi-Chibi from Sailormoon. Their equipment was removed and replaced with a nonremovable set of Chibi-Chibi costume gear, their gender changed to female, their description was changed to that of Chibi-Chibi, and whenever they tried to communicate by any means (emote, channel, say, etc) every word would be replaced with "Chibi". Whatever it was they were actually trying to say would be repeated in cleartext on a clandestine wiznet channel, giving the appearance that I could understand "Chibi Language". When the spell was dispelled (by death or otherwise) their description would be returned and the Chibi-Chibi costume gear destroyed. Since it was a spell, it could be loaded on wands and scrolls and then given to players (usually sold on the auction house for absurd prices), or used for setting booby traps. It was almost universally hated. I was told that just 15 minutes after my resignation the MUD was rebooted to remove it. Everyone loved to cast it at other people though...
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Oct 10, 2012 16:44
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item: rose tinted glasses wear: take eyes type: armor flags: no_remove no_uncurse addaffect: blindness (infinite) 
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Oct 10, 2012 18:02
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My favorite player annoyance device was letting them know that anything in my zones could be obtained with just 1 or 2 people despite the standard group size being 6 or 8. I hated zones that had god creatures in it - the type where everything could see all and know all. I would always work towards giving every creature a weakness and/or ways to bypass them. I also preferred area damage to single target damage to give smaller groups a boost.
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Oct 10, 2012 20:02
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Funkmaster General posted:Except that you can do all of this just as easily with a scripting language? After playing with MOOcode I literally cannot use any other MU* core. They are all ridiculously bad in comparison. Also, those saying that MOO needs an IDE, you could code one or use notepad++ and copy/paste it in to the MOO's built in editor, I guess. On another note, why aren't there any good MUDs? Seriously. They are all either roleplayfests with good mechanics, games with terrible mechanics and no roleplaying, or some dude's outlet for his power fetishism complete with robust spying tools. Larry Parrish fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Oct 11, 2012 |
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Oct 11, 2012 00:15
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tarepanda posted:Sounds like the GodWars codebase. Or Firan. Though they call it the ritual of eesha or something there.
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Oct 11, 2012 01:01
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The only thing I've seen that compares with MOO is LPMud. It's probably superior in flexibility but Discworld MUD isn't all that great except for hugeness so I suppose there isn't a shining example to hold up. Programming a MUD in C sounds horrific.
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Oct 11, 2012 01:09
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Freakus posted:player annoyance device I love doing things to annoy players. Nothing that ruins the game or makes it unfun or whatever, just silly little things that are annoying when you find out about them. For example, when I made parrots on hell (arguably already annoying in concept), I also made them bad rear end as combat mobs. So when people inevitably got angry at their parrot for spilling their secrets, or tried to annoy someone by killing their parrot, they'd attack the things and get ripped to shreds.
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Oct 11, 2012 01:37
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I liked to make endless mazes with overlapping exits that you could only get out of if you read room descriptions to find the (real) hidden exits... and whenever I discovered with my (secret) character that someone had mapped out or scripted the way to the cool mob/treasure at the end, I'd just change a couple of links.
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Oct 11, 2012 02:04
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tarepanda posted:I liked to make endless mazes with overlapping exits that you could only get out of if you read room descriptions to find the (real) hidden exits... and whenever I discovered with my (secret) character that someone had mapped out or scripted the way to the cool mob/treasure at the end, I'd just change a couple of links. Haha, so evil. One way links into busy intersecting rooms, same names, same descs, so wrong.
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Oct 11, 2012 02:59
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Here's a bunch of long ROM stories I posted in the griefing thread. The overlapping exits chat reminded me of this, which not only makes no sense but still amuses me 12 years later: One of our builders was a little bit  and would always use 'goto hassan' instead of recall (this would show up in the immortal command logs). This lead to a different one cloning the Temple of Mota (just the room itself and Hassan) and setting up one-way exits to the proper rooms the real temple connects to. There were two differences with the cloned temple: 1. It was a lower vnum than the real temple so goto would always catch its copy of Hassan before the real one. 2. Hassan was mprogged to say 'leg' every 5 seconds. I don't think the builder in question ever figured out what was going on, but every 3 or 4 days we'd get something along the lines of "GOD DAMMIT HASSAN IS SAYING LEG AGAIN" over the immortal channel.
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Oct 11, 2012 03:20
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Haephastus posted:Also, those saying that MOO needs an IDE, you could code one or use notepad++ Man have you actually programmed for a living for a couple years lately? Notepad++ copy-pasting is not an IDE. At the very least I'd need an easy way to navigate through classes, code assist, syntax checking, and a many great deal of other useful poo poo that comes with them. It should be a piece of cake to browse the possible parents, see what poo poo they have, see what functions I have available and what parameters they need and what type those parameters are. Maybe I'm spoiled, but after you do this poo poo every day 9 to 5 for a few years, there's certain things you just can't do without.
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Oct 11, 2012 03:50
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Pochoclo posted:Man have you actually programmed for a living for a couple years lately? Notepad++ copy-pasting is not an IDE. At the very least I'd need an easy way to navigate through classes, code assist, syntax checking, and a many great deal of other useful poo poo that comes with them. It should be a piece of cake to browse the possible parents, see what poo poo they have, see what functions I have available and what parameters they need and what type those parameters are. Maybe I'm spoiled, but after you do this poo poo every day 9 to 5 for a few years, there's certain things you just can't do without. I know it's not a real IDE. I just like it for text editing. Some people really hate MOO's built-in editor for some reason. That said, I would also like a MOO IDE. Maybe we someone should convince 0/Grunthawg while high he wants one.
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Oct 11, 2012 04:29
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Sublime Text 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Notepad++ I was looking through some MOO docs linked on Wikipedia -- how do you add basic traits to player/mob/room structure?
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Oct 11, 2012 04:30
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What do you mean by basic traits?
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Oct 11, 2012 05:25
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For example, if I wanted to add new player stats, wear slots... secondary vnums, that kind of thing.
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Oct 11, 2012 05:27
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You would add properties, preferably to the parent object so that you don't have to manually change each of your 5000 gay elf katanas. Each object has properties on it that are a boolean, an integer, a coefficient, a string, a list of the above, or a hash. Lists can also be nested, allowing for easy ways to organize data. Hashes are probably more efficient than nested lists, but I am pretty sure only hellcore has that implemented.
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Oct 11, 2012 05:37
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So you can edit player and room properties as well?
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Oct 11, 2012 05:41
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Everything in MOO is an object, and you can edit all of them with the same tools. So yes. Don't forget about verbs, either. Coding in new functionality is pretty easy compared to some MUD bases that need you to actually recompile the server for everything.
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Oct 11, 2012 05:49
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tarepanda posted:Sublime Text 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Notepad++ Ooh, that is super nice. I just wish I could find a MOO code package for it, since using C like I do for Notepad++ causes it to dump a bunch of {} poo poo into my code that I don't want.
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Oct 11, 2012 06:01
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Funkmaster General posted:I love doing things to annoy players. Nothing that ruins the game or makes it unfun or whatever, just silly little things that are annoying when you find out about them. Are you also the one that made parrots keep talking when billygoated? Because that owned. The only way to get rid of them was to drink bleach. For those unfamiliar with hellmoo, billygoat was a mutation that let a player eat almost anything he could pick up.
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Oct 11, 2012 06:58
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sixide posted:The only thing I've seen that compares with MOO is LPMud. It's probably superior in flexibility but Discworld MUD isn't all that great except for hugeness so I suppose there isn't a shining example to hold up. It's definitely way more flexible, and in my opinion LPC is really where MUD development should have headed. You get the benefits of the MUSH/MOO scene with a bunch of extra benefits like LPC-C compilation, atomic functions, and a way more sensible storage system, plus DGD and (especially) FluffOS are actively maintained. It's also syntactically pretty much the same as any C-derivative so it's comically easy for most programmers to jump right into. DGD can also be used for commercial purposes since the 2010 release. I think the best part is that there's nothing inherent to LP drivers that require them to be used for MUDs. I've used FluffOS to do silly things like automated log rotation when I couldn't be bothered to throw together a python script. Yahoo! also uses DGD for the backend for their chat system, I think. In conclusion I love LPC even though I never really seriously played any LPMuds. Sheep fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Oct 11, 2012 |
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Oct 11, 2012 10:02
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Welp I bit the bullet and started playing LoTJ last night. Joined a clan but haven't really decided where I would take the character
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Oct 11, 2012 18:48
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So I'm looking for a new MUD to play, one thats decently active. I remember trying IRE muds before. They were fun and had high activity, but you never seemed to have enough practices, eventually forcing you to pay to be strong. Also the curing system was insane. Also remember Materia Magica, which was intresting but grindy as gently caress. Are there any games with a decent amount of activity that dont force you to grind obsessively or pay to be good?
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Oct 11, 2012 19:29
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I've never worked on a MOO/LPMUD before - is the only way people develop (and test) on them on the production instance? What do you do for changes that might take weeks or months and require heavy testing? What about source control - it would be cool if they integrated source control into it. I worked for a while on a dikumud (so in C). I didn't find it too bad. We also pretty heavily modified it so not every change required C code. All systems were converted to be more OLC-like, so anyone could create a new spell just like you would a new creature. We moved all OLC stuff to a website (after moving everything into an SQL database). We added lua as a scripting language so that we could create more complex custom behavior in zones, but anything that got popular enough we put back in C and made it easier for builders to use via standard OLC options.
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Oct 11, 2012 19:33
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Pochoclo posted:Man have you actually programmed for a living for a couple years lately? Notepad++ copy-pasting is not an IDE. At the very least I'd need an easy way to navigate through classes, code assist, syntax checking, and a many great deal of other useful poo poo that comes with them. It should be a piece of cake to browse the possible parents, see what poo poo they have, see what functions I have available and what parameters they need and what type those parameters are. Maybe I'm spoiled, but after you do this poo poo every day 9 to 5 for a few years, there's certain things you just can't do without. something like this? http://www.lambdamoo.de/lmb_huge.html
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Oct 11, 2012 21:09
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Globofglob posted:So I'm looking for a new MUD to play, one thats decently active. I remember trying IRE muds before. They were fun and had high activity, but you never seemed to have enough practices, eventually forcing you to pay to be strong. Also the curing system was insane. I've been playing Arctic for about 15 years now. I keep trying other muds but always wind up coming back because it's simply well-made and well-balanced. Enjoying the Dragonlance theme helps too, I guess, though that's not really why most people play it anymore. Another option would be Discworld but I always get depressing looking at people with 700+ days playtime who you will, by definition, never catch up to on there. Freakus posted:I've never worked on a MOO/LPMUD before - is the only way people develop (and test) on them on the production instance? What do you do for changes that might take weeks or months and require heavy testing? What about source control - it would be cool if they integrated source control into it. LPMuds (generally) load everything from flat files, so you can use SVN or git or whatever you want for source control. I did all my coding offline with vi and then loaded my changes by just updating the relevant objects ingame (update object or update /path/object.c, in my implementation). There's not much point to adding an in-game editor unless you want regular players to be able to build things, which is kind of the point of MOO/MUSHes as far as I can tell. The only instance in which I'm aware a reboot would be necessary for an update would be if you were using LPC->C compilation in the DGD driver - relevant objects wouldn't be updated until the game driver was rebooted, but that's also not much of a problem as it supports state dumps. Sheep fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Oct 11, 2012 |
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Oct 11, 2012 23:24
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Globofglob posted:Are there any games with a decent amount of activity that dont force you to grind obsessively or pay to be good? All muds have significant grindy elements. It's how they keep players around.
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Oct 11, 2012 23:47
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CheechLizard posted:something like this? That looks very useful, yes - still looks pretty simplistic, but much better than throwing commands at a mud client. If everything was properly commented, I might even be tempted to try my hand at it again.
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Oct 12, 2012 02:49
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Sheep posted:I've been playing Arctic for about 15 years now. I keep trying other muds but always wind up coming back because it's simply well-made and well-balanced. Enjoying the Dragonlance theme helps too, I guess, though that's not really why most people play it anymore. Arctic's website makes it look pretty fantastic. I actually feel like digging into this. Yeah, the Dragonlance setting does make it pretty attractive. I'm glad you mentioned it. Looking around the website, I'm surprised it's not talked about more. Edit: Found the classes under Guilds. ZombieParts fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Oct 12, 2012 |
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Oct 12, 2012 07:06
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ZombieParts posted:Arctic's website makes it look pretty fantastic. I actually feel like digging into this. There's some things about Arctic I dislike but it's still far and away the most professionally done MUD I've played in 20 years. If you or anyone else wants to give it a shot just let me know your character name and I can show you around. Sheep fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Oct 12, 2012 |
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Oct 12, 2012 12:24
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Sheep posted:There's some things about Arctic I dislike but it's still far and away the most professionally done MUD I've played in 20 years. If you or anyone else wants to give it a shot just let me know your character name and I can show you around. Yes, I'll get in there and get used to mud controls again and then I'll figure out what kind of character I can handle..probably a Silvanesti Warrior but there may be some better stuff going on
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Oct 13, 2012 10:55
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