|
30 Goddamned Dicks posted:So when you have people like those of us in this thread, who know their poo poo about fresh beans and roasting and grind size and brew time and water temp and dissolved solids and surfing the air hole, anyone who comes around going "You know, Starbucks is totally OK" is going to get sent straight back to the kiddie table.
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2012 21:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 06:46 |
|
|
Please don't send me to the kiddie table.. Just trying to figure out if the hate had any base in it being an evil company, or if it was something else. Appearances and the intensive tone would suggest that it is something else. Still better than airport lounge folgers that has been burning all day though. So sorry for pushing a button.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2012 21:38
|
|
|
30 Goddamned Dicks posted:Because Starbucks is to good coffee what box wine is to good wine. So when you have people like those of us in this thread, who know their poo poo about fresh beans and roasting and grind size and brew time and water temp and dissolved solids and surfing the air hole, anyone who comes around going "You know, Starbucks is totally OK" is going to get sent straight back to the kiddie table. Boxed wine is much better wine than Starbucks is coffee. The big difference is Starbucks knowingly midhandles and scorches their beans.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2012 21:53
|
|
|
Why do they knowingly degrade their product? Really not trying to troll here! (I usually just get a cup of black coffee in there, not espresso or milky things)
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2012 22:02
|
|
|
Happy Hat posted:Why do they knowingly degrade their product? If you burn coffee, it pretty much tastes the same no matter what. Starbucks, as well as most big chains, are built on consistency, so it's more important for them to have a consistent cup of coffee between locations than it is to have a good cup of coffee at each location. Honestly, I've had better experience with McDonalds coffee than Starbucks and it's 1/2 the price
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2012 22:05
|
|
|
Then since they generally mask the burnt flavour with sugar, they please the sweet tooths. When I worked at starbucks, someone ordered a large/venti coffee with 1.5x (or possibly 1.75x) the usual amount of dulce de leche syrup... I just don't know how you can drink something like that, and that wasn't particularly abnormal. Even then, when I didn't know what good coffee tasted like.  I heard that Starbucks will drive independent coffee shops out of a good location, because they can operate a store on a loss. Though I'm not sure what truth there is to that and I'm not going to dig an article up.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2012 22:32
|
|
|
Rather than accepting the fact that because coffee is predicated off of a fruit/bean, that changes from season, region, year to year and like wine, tastes different a lot of the time, they prefer to market a similar taste everywhere across the board. Like someone mentioned above, the only way to do this is to burn the coffee. I think, for myself, a big problem is how Starbucks, and those who drink Starbucks portray themselves. I am not annoyed by a carpenter hitting up tim hortons for his double double, because he isnt trying to portray himself as anything but just drinking some coffee, and he doesnt care about taste. He goes to tim hortons because its cheap, on his way to work, and i mean, two cream and two sugars will make anything taste good. Even though I love a in-house made pattie with home made sauce and made by a professional at a nice restaurant for a burger, I still eat burger king or fast food. I can have both but still appreciate good things because the latter is most convenient, cheaper and filling in its own greasy way. Just the same as I nerd out about coffee here, making my JJ Bean after grinding it, then doing a pour over on a scale, at the same time, on the way to work there are countless times I will buy a double double from Mcdonalds (McD's is actually my fav "fast food" coffee. Starbucks is garbage compared to it). Hell, I even prefer Tim Hortons to Starbucks. My problem is that Starbucks appropriates artisan coffee, and all the people who actively go there have a sense of superiority over anyone else. Its stupid and annoying to hear someone who loves starbucks brag to some dude that "Oh well, i like quality in my coffee so I go to starbucks". Shut the gently caress up, its ridiculous and I side more with the non coffee lovers who make fun of "fourbucks coffee" and who would just prefer a "cup of joe". At least they are being honest in their portrayal. Also, Starbucks is one of the biggest union busting corporations, and only pay out decent benefits in order to undermine the efforts of labour organization. swagger like us fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Oct 15, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2012 22:34
|
|
|
Well, with the trendiness of coffee nerds these days Starbucks introduced their lighter roasts. Has anyone tried these?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2012 22:36
|
|
|
Steve Yun posted:Well, with the trendiness of coffee nerds these days Starbucks introduced their lighter roasts. Has anyone tried these? I tried it, and even got it made over a pour over at one of their places. Somehow it still tasted burnt. To be fair though I havent actually tried getting fresh beans, grinding it myself and doing it myself on a pour over. So I cant say for certain it wasnt just because the barista dumped hot water over a melitta pourover.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2012 22:38
|
|
|
swagger like us posted:I tried it, and even got it made over a pour over at one of their places. Somehow it still tasted burnt. We're taught to grind it way coarser than it should be, and with no real technique in the pour. We stop brewing the light roast and decaf after noon or so, and if a customer wants one of those after noon we do pour overs. There's people that HATE the pour overs for some reason. e: they just had a huge conference for all the store managers in Houston and my store manager brought back pictures of the roasting process, and she said that our coffee is better because it goes "past the second pop" i didn't even bother fighting with her. she had a picture of some first-crack beans and was like "LOOK HOW FLAT AND BORING IT IS" whereismyshoe fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Oct 15, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2012 22:45
|
|
|
Re: Starbucks talk. I think Starbucks coffee is gross, but I get why people like it, and I think it works in their sweetened drinks. I'm a big fan of the Pumpkin Spice Latte, which is basically hot pumpkin sugar-milk with a dash of bitter espresso to balance the sweetness. It sounds wrong, but it works. And, if I was forced to, I'd be fine with drinking their grossly over roasted drip coffee with cream and sugar. Not because I like the coffee, but because the balance of bitter and sweet works. Their coffee is awful, but their drinks work and are eminently repeatable. If I want good tasting coffee, though, Starbucks is near the last place I'd go. When you go to Starbucks the only thing you taste is the roast, which tastes terrible. Except for their Blonde coffees, I guess, which, while not burnt, are overwhelmingly, disgustingly boring.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2012 22:51
|
|
|
Steve Yun posted:Well, with the trendiness of coffee nerds these days Starbucks introduced their lighter roasts. Has anyone tried these?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2012 23:38
|
|
|
Prior to the Nationwide Expansion of Starbucks in the early 1990's, choices were really really limited outside of a big city, so to a lot of those folks SB is still a huge extravagance and upgrade over what they were used to getting or making from a can of Folgers. It's fine for most people, tbh. I took my Aeropress and Hario #2 cone camping this last weekend and felt very goony  even though I was using pre-ground coffee (like some kind of commoner) from Temple in Sacto that I ground beforehand in my Vario.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2012 00:39
|
|
|
RE: Sbux So there are a lot of strong opinions on it, some more virulent than others. My problem with the company isn't so severe as to avoid completely. After all, they were very influential in the renaissance of coffee in this country. The problem is they forgot where they came from and what they brought. Samuel Adams was a similar company. Before them, craft brewing in America was a niche thing for hippies and weirdos. Now that their established, they help homebrewers by funding their startups, by holding contests and releasing the winners with their distribution, and a few years ago, when the hop shortage threatened to close a lot of microbreweries, they sold their surplus at cost. Starbucks on the other hand built its empire on cannibalizing small independent coffee shops. It used to grind, tamp, and brew to order, all of their machines are superautomatics now. I do not recall how their roasting used to be but their roasting now is so dark that all varietal distinction is gone. Their blonde roast is still a touch darker that what I would consider a good french roast (the darkest you should ever take coffee). Starbucks had an opportunity to be a fantastically influential company, but alas... That said, when I'm in a hurry, and need a cup, I am not above getting a grande blonde roast no room at the drive thru near my house.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2012 00:57
|
|
|
Keyser S0ze posted:
I take an Aeropress and a Hario Mini mill camping all the time. Neither is very heavy and they both pack down small with easy/quick clean up. I measure out the full beans by weight into snack size ziplocs. Grind the beans while I wait for the water to boil. It gets some strange looks at first but it's worth it. Nothing makes quick friends with a ranger like a solid cup of coffee. biggfoo fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Oct 16, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2012 01:59
|
|
!
|
Happy Hat posted:Why do they knowingly degrade their product? They can get away with using cheap crappy beans because everything tastes the same after it has been roasted to charcoal.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2012 02:04
|
|
|
Pour over question: once the cone has drained of water, should the grounds form a level mound or should they form a uniformly thick coating on the filter. Or does it matter?
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2012 04:30
|
|
|
that Vai sound posted:Pour over question: once the cone has drained of water, should the grounds form a level mound or should they form a uniformly thick coating on the filter. Or does it matter? For me it makes kind of a concave bowl shape.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2012 04:34
|
|
|
For what it's worth Aldi here in Australia have been selling that same Starbucks coffee machine here for the past year for ~$79 Australian, which would normally translate to about $50-$60 US after taking into consideration the Australian tax. $199 is outrageous. Of course I could be wrong, but they are too similar to be a coincidence and the specs are the same - http://www.k-fee-system.com/startseite/ (Not that anyone would want one in this thread, but I thought it was interesting)
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2012 08:56
|
|
|
that Vai sound posted:Pour over question: once the cone has drained of water, should the grounds form a level mound or should they form a uniformly thick coating on the filter. Or does it matter? For my Hario I usually try to obtain something like this. I tend to pour slightly faster at first to get the bloom to rise up and out (all after pre-wetting the grounds of course.) Different coffees bloom differently though, especially depending on how fresh the beans are. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2012 09:37
|
|
|
whereismyshoe posted:i didn't even bother fighting with her. she had a picture of some first-crack beans and was like "LOOK HOW FLAT AND BORING IT IS" But that dusty golden color is so loving vibrant and rich and mouth watering and they roast their beans to that awful cheap looking shiny black that just looks depressing. I worked at Starbucks years and years ago and I remember the training process being really surprisingly good, but it was also weirdly focused on showing why the company does everything wrong. There was literally a point where they talked about roast differences and the training instructor said "of course, we roast beyond the second crack because as a multinational brand, our hands are tied in regards to consistency between stores, if we roasted any lighter you couldn't say that a latte in Singapore tastes just like one in Boise, Idaho." The training has apparently changed somewhat since 2006, 2007?
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2012 12:13
|
|
|
rockcity posted:Sounds like you actually may have not enough coffee. I use about an 8g per 4oz ratio for nearly every method of brewing that I use, which would be 24g for your 12oz of water. Bitterness typically means over extraction which could be caused by not enough coffee. Try it again at the same grind with 24g of coffee. Tried 28g to 14oz today and it came out great! I also let the water get a bit hotter. Instead of the second it started steaming out of the kettle, I waited until it was whistling a good bit...I'm guessing that was closer to 200-205 degrees. I'm not entirely sure. I have a handheld laser temperature reader, but I don't think pointing it at the metal kettle gives an entirely accurate reading. Now for beans... I've been going to a local roaster and it seems alright, but I only can base it off of things I've had in the past, like dunkin donuts and keurig pods...(yeah I know...I'm working on it). The place has been in business for over 20 years and the owner seems nice and explains some stuff, but it seems like they are TOO big. https://www.javacoffee.com/ If you look at their website, they have a TON of beans available. He told me that his guy comes in and roasts twice a week, but I'm not sure what he's roasting exactly. When I go to buy, he pulls the coffee beans out of these huge 5 gallon tubs, so I'm just not sure how fresh they really are. Most of the stuff he sells there has flavors added to it like pumpkin and cinnamon, which I'm not into, so I figured I'd try going the online route. I'm looking at two places so far. Dodd Coffee, which is local to Houston, but only sells online. Redbirdcoffee, which was recommended to me on the coffee geek forums. Any other suggestions? I want to keep it under $14/pound right now, plus shipping. I don't like bitter coffees. I have liked Kona in the past, as well as La Minita Tarrazu, which is something I'm getting from Java Coffee right now. Again, I'll be using mostly a French press, and sometimes a CCD. nwin fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Oct 16, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2012 13:30
|
|
|
nwin posted:
What I think you're talking about with bitterness is more than likely acidity (i.e. almost a wine-like taste), so avoid any beans that talk about lots of acidity, Kenyan and Guatemalan beans are known for it so you probably don't want to look in that direction. It could also be that you don't like darker roasts as well. Brazilian and Columbian beans might be up your alley. I'd give those a try next.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2012 15:33
|
|
|
Whalley posted:But that dusty golden color is so loving vibrant and rich and mouth watering and they roast their beans to that awful cheap looking shiny black that just looks depressing. My store manager is very much a pawn to the starbucks machine, she believes all the bullshit that they feed her and passes it onto us. She talked about roasting so dark in order to "extract the unique flavor of the beans" but she's also pretty incompetent at the job so that's not too surprising really. There's a local roasting company that has excellent espresso though, and if anyone complains to me about our coffee / bitter, burnt espresso i'll tell them to go there.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2012 15:52
|
|
|
nwin posted:Now for beans... I'm not sure how well they could meet your needs given the small size of their operation and additional distance to Houston, but I'll go ahead and plug my local place. I've heard them mention the possibility of shipping some beans to one or two people who wandered in to talk about gifts for distant relatives so I think they'd probably work with you if you fired off an email. I can't really say how they compare to serious roasters elsewhere because I did not care about coffee at all and mostly stuck to espresso drinks until I tried their stuff. My burr grinder should be arriving this afternoon. I fear what I am becoming; I already have a crippling and expensive tea addiction.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2012 16:41
|
|
|
I roast my own coffee and prefer to drink it whenever I can. Sometimes I get lazy and don't roast during the weekend and end up having to get coffee elsewhere. I've stopped going to Dunkin Donuts and will instead goto Starbucks because of the consistancy issue. DD employs the worst people to make their mediocre (bad) coffee. Sometimes it'll taste decent enough to drink and it's cheap, but 90% of the time it's either too diluted, old or burnt to poo poo (not from the roast, but from sitting on the heater). At least with Starbucks, you know what you're going to get. That said, I'm doing my best to slowly transition my family away from Starbucks. Whenever I bring a jar home of whatever I roasted that week, my mom always looks at it and says "But it's not dark enough!". I can assure you mom, that my FC+ roast is plenty dark and will taste much much better. Getting the whole notion of bitter == bold out of people's heads is very tough because of Starbucks.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2012 16:56
|
|
|
GrAviTy84 posted:RE: Sbux Sam Adams also (last I heard) refuses to up their production volume because it will push them out of microbrew associations. Just imagine if Starbucks had decided not to expand so much. Late night talkshows would be struggling to fill those joke gaps.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2012 17:39
|
|
|
Saint Darwin posted:Sam Adams also (last I heard) refuses to up their production volume because it will push them out of microbrew associations. Just imagine if Starbucks had decided not to expand so much. Late night talkshows would be struggling to fill those joke gaps. They also keep redefining how large a microbewery can be so that Boston Beer Company can make the "craft beer sales rise some more!" number look better. Coffee chat: how much coffee do you drink in a day? My wife and I each split a press in the morning and usually another one around lunch time, which is 450-500mls each, twice a day. When it came up today at school that I drink a liter of coffee everyday I thought people's eyes were going to pop out of their skulls.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2012 17:06
|
|
|
Arnold of Soissons posted:They also keep redefining how large a microbewery can be so that Boston Beer Company can make the "craft beer sales rise some more!" number look better. Two cups in the morning. Usually a cup or so in the mid afternoon. Not sure how much that actually equates to.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2012 18:51
|
|
|
Arnold of Soissons posted:They also keep redefining how large a microbewery can be so that Boston Beer Company can make the "craft beer sales rise some more!" number look better. Depends on busyness levels. I like to stay at an average of two 8 oz cups a day (~470 ml) but when I'm very sleep deprived I'll get up to constant drinking of cups from morning through afternoon, which would be approaching 2 liters on some days.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2012 18:57
|
|
|
A liter sounds like a ton but it's actually around 4 cups (the measurement that is) or 3 12-ounce servings, which probably not unusual.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2012 19:00
|
|
|
Arnold of Soissons posted:Coffee chat: how much coffee do you drink in a day? My wife and I each split a press in the morning and usually another one around lunch time, which is 450-500mls each, twice a day. When it came up today at school that I drink a liter of coffee everyday I thought people's eyes were going to pop out of their skulls. At work we have a Keurig and I usually have at least 2 10 oz cups, and the first one has a 1.5oz hit from the Espresso machine next to it. Of course I also have 2-3 sodas as well so health is just out the window. I sometimes do have a French press of coffee when I get home depending on what I'm doing that night. If I'm planning on going out I usually have one. Adult Sword Owner fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Oct 17, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2012 20:37
|
|
|
Arnold of Soissons posted:They also keep redefining how large a microbewery can be so that Boston Beer Company can make the "craft beer sales rise some more!" number look better. About 2 x 300ml cups at work, then typically a 500ml pourover at home in the evening. Sometimes that pourover is a 900ml French press, depends what I fancy at the time. So, uh, quite a lot by other people's standards? I've never considered this to be a huge amount, but based on what other people are saying and what I've heard, any more than two cups and you're hardcore.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2012 21:02
|
|
|
-
Protosimian fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jan 28, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2012 21:04
|
|
|
Typical work from home day or weekend: 2 double shots from the Rocket in the morning and then a single at 1:30 PM. or: 1 500ml carafe from the pourover in the morning and then a single at 1:30 PM or: 6 cup pot from Bonavita, spread throughout day. Typical travel to work/client day: 1 double shot from the Rocket at around 5AM, a large cup of hopefully something decent around 9AM, then a single shot from Peets/wherever at 1:30PM I try not to drink coffee after 3 at all and if so it's decaf
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2012 21:56
|
|
|
Arnold of Soissons posted:Coffee chat: how much coffee do you drink in a day? My wife and I each split a press in the morning and usually another one around lunch time, which is 450-500mls each, twice a day. When it came up today at school that I drink a liter of coffee everyday I thought people's eyes were going to pop out of their skulls.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2012 01:35
|
|
|
Starbucks opened their first store here in Costa Rica a few months ago and there was a linefor opening day, people are so drat tacky. Not to mention the prices they're paying for starbucks when you can get better coffee pretty much anywhere here. For the price of one grande latte machiatto or whatever I get enough high quality ground for the whole week at the farmer's market. Arnold of Soissons posted:Coffee chat: how much coffee do you drink in a day? My wife and I each split a press in the morning and usually another one around lunch time, which is 450-500mls each, twice a day. When it came up today at school that I drink a liter of coffee everyday I thought people's eyes were going to pop out of their skulls. A liter is not that much, I can easily down a whole 12 cup pot in a day and that's almost 3 liters.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2012 00:50
|
|
|
Drogadon posted:A liter is not that much, I can easily down a whole 12 cup pot in a day and that's almost 3 liters. In coffee terminology, a "cup" is about 120 ml or 4 oz. 12 cups is under 1.5 litres.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2012 01:10
|
|
|
Drogadon posted:Starbucks opened their first store here in Costa Rica a few months ago and there was a linefor opening day, people are so drat tacky. Not to mention the prices they're paying for starbucks when you can get better coffee pretty much anywhere here. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2012 01:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 06:46 |
|
|
I've honestly never tried the Starbucks Tarrazu, might give it a chance next month when they open one near me. Might also compare it to the brands they sell in the supermarket. No idea if they sell Tarrazu in the shops though, I have been buying from a small producer at the farmers market for a long time.Bob_McBob posted:In coffee terminology, a "cup" is about 120 ml or 4 oz. 12 cups is under 1.5 litres. Did not know that, thanks for the clarification. Simone Poodoin fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Oct 19, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2012 01:36
|
|