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Paul.Power posted:On the other hand, Lord English isn't a game construct, so maybe "final boss" isn't the right term. A better description would be either: If you want to get  about it, Lord English is a game construct too in the sense that all players are game constructs due to ectobiology. Throw on that "sanctioned by paradox space" thing and the fact that the game let him get all his crazy power in the first place by making him Lord of Time, and he's as much a construct as Bec Noir.Hell, the whole cast minus I guess Dad are really just chess pieces the game made up. Count pre and post scratch versions of both universes and there's even the correct number of pieces!
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Oct 15, 2012 21:35
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But are they all wearing the right hats?
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Oct 15, 2012 21:38
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Dolash posted:If you want to get 16 Prospit dreamers. 16 Derse dreamers. And, uh, half of Sollux. Now we just need some...players.
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Oct 15, 2012 21:40
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Inside sources are saying that Tavros's Dancestor's name will definitely be Rufiyo Nitram. And I cannot wait to meet him. 
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Oct 15, 2012 21:49
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Slime posted:The Black Queen is the final boss. Bec Noir is the secret boss. Lord English is the SUPER secret boss. Well, on a meta level it's our crazy enthusiasm for seeing terrible and/or cool things happen to the characters that got them into the game to start with. The end of Homestuck will be a negative of the Earthbound ending, with all the kids praying for us readers to stop giving a drat and just let them go home.
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Oct 15, 2012 22:03
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Grrl Anachronism posted:Inside sources are saying that Tavros's Dancestor's name will definitely be Rufiyo Nitram. And I cannot wait to meet him. No matter how interesting Rufiyo will be, dancestor Zahhak will steal the limelight. I can feel it. He's going to be the best character ever. (My greatest fear is that i will be away from my computer when the next walkabout shows up, and all the D-Zahhak avatars will be taken when i get back.)
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Oct 15, 2012 22:21
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Technique posted:dancestor Zahhak will steal the limelight Grrl Anachronism posted:Dancestor's name will definitely be Rufiyo Nitram. And I cannot wait to meet him. You guys keep saying dancestor, and I'm picturing all of the ancestors dancing around in a looping gif like a Charlie Brown play.
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Oct 15, 2012 22:31
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Admiral Goodenough posted:Well, on a meta level it's our crazy enthusiasm for seeing terrible and/or cool things happen to the characters that got them into the game to start with. I'm still fond of the idea that Lord English is supposed to be an audience surrogate, so this might make a surprising amount of sense.
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Oct 15, 2012 22:33
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Admiral Goodenough posted:Well, on a meta level it's our crazy enthusiasm for seeing terrible and/or cool things happen to the characters that got them into the game to start with. I think you might be taking the UU/uu as author surrogates thing a little too far there. Not all meta commentary makes a decent story.
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Oct 15, 2012 22:39
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Cat Mattress posted:Also, Dipper and Tyrone Pine from Gravity Falls, for some reason. I actually caught up with Dipper and Tyrone there over the weekend and asked for a picture of them, they totally told me to check out the big Homestuck meetup. Homestuck meetups are hella daunting and I didn't really wanna go near it, but they were both pretty cool dudes.
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Oct 15, 2012 22:41
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Gravity Falls also provides positive cosplaying opportunities for people with downs syndrome It's better this way for Paper Jam Dipper
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Oct 15, 2012 22:58
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Whitenoise Poster posted:Edit: So, this is from a few pages back, but it got me thinking. If this is a real possibility, then couldn't it be easy to say that since Jane has the Land of Crypts and Helium, the other kids might have noble gases as their second land-words too? Which would make the other lands The Land of Mounds and Xenon, The Land of Tombs and Krypton, and The Land of Pyramids and Neon. Would make sense, right? But that leaves two noble gases left. Argon and Radon. And there are two more players who need lands: Caliborn and Caliope. (let's just ignore all the Complicated poo poo and pretend they're both normal players who get lands, i dunno how it would really work with them!) Radon can cause cancer. And if Jack was the cancer of the Beta kids' universe, then Lord English is kinda like a cancer of reality itself, isn't he?. Which would make it fitting for Caliborn to have the Land of Something and Radon. And Argon can be used in surgery to kill cancer cells. Calliope is basically the key to stopping Lord English. So she might have the Land of Whatever and Argon. There's also the fact that Argon means "passive" in Greek, and she's a Muse, the most passive class. This would all fit pretty well with the other cancer thematism, too. This is all just theorycrafting, but it makes a lot of sense to me.
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Oct 15, 2012 23:13
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Captain Oblivious posted:I think you might be taking the UU/uu as author surrogates thing a little too far there. Not all meta commentary makes a decent story. I was just kidding  Someone tell me what dancestor comes from. Ancestor + ???
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Oct 15, 2012 23:16
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Technique posted:Argon and Radon poo poo This makes so much sense it's almost terrifying, especially the whole "Argon" and "passive" thing.
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Oct 15, 2012 23:16
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Admiral Goodenough posted:I was just kidding Ancestor + Descendant. Weird Time poo poo, basically. 
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Oct 15, 2012 23:16
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Specifically it's from one of the tag gags in the first (or second? but I think first) part of the A6I3 walkabout, where Meenah was trying out different descendant/ancestor portmanteaux. Technically, of course, she was thinking of the A2 players (Karkat and company) there, but dancestry clearly cuts both ways.
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Oct 15, 2012 23:19
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Technique posted:So, this is from a few pages back, but it got me thinking. If this is a real possibility, then couldn't it be easy to say that since Jane has the Land of Crypts and Helium, the other kids might have noble gases as their second land-words too? Which would make the other lands The Land of Mounds and Xenon, The Land of Tombs and Krypton, and The Land of Pyramids and Neon. Would make sense, right? Except that Caliborn and Calliope are in an entirely different session, so there's no reason to expect their lands to thematically related to the kids any more than theirs were thematically related to the trolls.
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Oct 15, 2012 23:22
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fatherdog posted:Except that Caliborn and Calliope are in an entirely different session, so there's no reason to expect their lands to thematically related to the kids any more than theirs were thematically related to the trolls. There definitely seems to be some link between the sessions, though. Otherwise they wouldn't talk to the Alpha kids.
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Oct 15, 2012 23:27
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Technique posted:There definitely seems to be some link between the sessions, though. Otherwise they wouldn't talk to the Alpha kids. And the kids talked to the trolls, and Jade and Jake talked to each other. Their lands still didn't relate thematically.
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Oct 15, 2012 23:31
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fatherdog posted:And the kids talked to the trolls, and Jade and Jake talked to each other. Their lands still didn't relate thematically. Well, yeah, but if the speculation is true and all the Alpha lands are related like that, then that would also be pretty different from any of the other sessions, and as such it wouldn't be a huge stretch to say it might also include the cherubs somehow. I mean, it's pretty obvious that there's more going on between those two sessions than we know so far! It doesn't necessarily have to be the exact same as all the other sessions. e: Augh, i should have gone to bed half an hour ago, so i'll just leave it at this for the moment, but seriously, the things i am thinking are making an okay amount of sense to me. e2: Okay, i went to bed and then i got back up because this just hit me. The trolls talked with the Beta kids, and the trolls created the Beta universe. Jade taked to Jake; the Beta kids scratched their session, thus creating the Alpha universe. So if we go by this thing that inter-universe communication often involves a creation link, what if the Alpha session succeeds, and ends up creating Caliborn/Caliope's universe. Which would mean that they themselves would ultimately be "responsible" for creating Lord English. Okay, now i REALLY gotta go to bed, but seriously, this poo poo is SPOOKY. Freak Futanari fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Oct 15, 2012 |
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Oct 15, 2012 23:34
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Admiral Goodenough posted:I was just kidding It's what you'd call someone who was alive long before you were but is genetically speaking your child. i.e. John is Jane's dancestor, Mindfang is Vriska's dancestor, etc.
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Oct 15, 2012 23:52
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Eventually someone's going to have a real bitch of a time trying to get Jane and Jake to understand that they're genetically the parents of the people they knew as grandparents. Roxy and Dirk probably won't be so much of a problem there, though.
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Oct 16, 2012 00:07
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So I was thinking about how this whole chapter seems to be about moving on and growing up. Terezi has had a pretty neat development lately, which is losing her self esteem, doubting her own worth. When Aranea offered to restore her vision, she was still pretty confident in her skills, and said was better with her lack of vision. But since she seems to be doubting herself, what if she at some later point took Aranea's offer? Could it be that she's hiding her restored eyes under the suit's hood? Maybe it's stretching it too much, but I feel that having her most notable feature (eyes) hidden could be used for something.
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Oct 16, 2012 00:08
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I'd been wondering if perhaps she'd gotten her eyesight restored so she could see Dave, properly-like.
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Oct 16, 2012 00:15
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A good poster posted:Eventually someone's going to have a real bitch of a time trying to get Jane and Jake to understand that they're genetically the parents of the people they knew as grandparents. Roxy and Dirk probably won't be so much of a problem there, though. Jade is good at dropping dramatic revelations like that.
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Oct 16, 2012 00:16
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Fister Roboto posted:It's what you'd call someone who was alive long before you were but is genetically speaking your child. Did Karkat specifically mention during ectobiology that he cloned the ancestors and mixed the troll kids? I ask because we saw John clone B1 Mom/Bro/Nanna/Grandpa and ecto-mix the kids but only know of Karkat's through him talking about it.
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Oct 16, 2012 00:17
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KoB posted:Did Karkat specifically mention during ectobiology that he cloned the ancestors and mixed the troll kids? Fister was actually saying that Karkat cloned 'his' set of trolls, and mixed Meenah's, I think. (John is Jane's ecto-child, but in B2 he was her 'grandpa', so following his example Mindfang [Aranea] would be Vriska's ecto-child but was her 'ancestor'). This is actually a surprisingly large debate in the fandom! We also don't know if there was any genetic mixing for the trolls, whichever way it happened, or if there was, who was mixed to make who. What we do know is that Karkat didn't believe in ancestors, and didn't recognize the [Meenah, Kankri, Latula, etc.] set of grubs, and had no idea their purpose. From that we might guess that he originally cloned himself and his friends, then made the other group, since if he had seen the A1 group [Meenah et all] on the screen in the past, then seen how they were genetically his group's parents he probably would have figured it out. edit: this also fits more in line with the kid's example of which set of players plays pre- and post-scratch, although of course Karkat did the cloning post-Scratch so that's got some wrinkles. Pattern being: B1- Genetic ancestors are the elders, players are the genetic descendants. B2- genetic ancestors are the players, genetic descendants are the elders Mazerunner fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Oct 16, 2012 |
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Oct 16, 2012 00:30
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Mazerunner posted:edit: this also fits more in line with the kid's example of which set of players plays pre- and post-scratch, although of course Karkat did the cloning post-Scratch so that's got some wrinkles. Yeah, this is why a year ago right before Act 6 started, I thought that post-scratch, the genetics would be reversed as well and B2-Jane would be B2-John's ecto-daughter, and B2-John would be a clone of himself. But that was firmly disproven by word of Huss. The fact that A2-Karkat and not A1-Kankri did the ectocloning really screws up the whole pattern. And then there's Dad. Who even knows what that guy's deal is.
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Oct 16, 2012 00:51
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Fister Roboto posted:Yeah, this is why a year ago right before Act 6 started, I thought that post-scratch, the genetics would be reversed as well and B2-Jane would be B2-John's ecto-daughter, and B2-John would be a clone of himself. But that was firmly disproven by word of Huss. The fact that A2-Karkat and not A1-Kankri did the ectocloning really screws up the whole pattern. Honestly, it really doesn't. Both universes had one ectobiology session and one group of meteors sent to their respective planets. In the Trollverse, Karkat did the ectobiology for both A1 and A2. In the Kidverse, John did the ectobiology for both B1 and B2. In both sessions, the meteors were effectively cloned and shifted around.
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Oct 16, 2012 02:23
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No really, it does. One of the B1 players did the Universe B cloning, so it should have been one of the A1 trolls doing the Universe A cloning.
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Oct 16, 2012 03:07
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Fister Roboto posted:No really, it does. One of the B1 players did the Universe B cloning, so it should have been one of the A1 trolls doing the Universe A cloning. Right, and the fact that it didn't happen that way was an anomaly and one of the reasons (or indications) that A1 was doomed to failure. We don't know why it happened that way.
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Oct 16, 2012 03:09
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Fister Roboto posted:No really, it does. One of the B1 players did the Universe B cloning, so it should have been one of the A1 trolls doing the Universe A cloning. Doesn't have to be. Time in Homestuck EDIT: Oh right, I guess it technically does from a standpoint of the game. I kinda missed the point there.
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Oct 16, 2012 03:09
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Fister Roboto posted:No really, it does. One of the B1 players did the Universe B cloning, so it should have been one of the A1 trolls doing the Universe A cloning. One of the specified qualities of a null session is that none of their players do any ectobiology.
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Oct 16, 2012 03:19
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Quotetype posted:One of the specified qualities of a null session is that none of their players do any ectobiology. A null session is simply one that doesn't/can't produce a complete Genesis Frog. The significance of the lack of ectobiology in A1 is that the players had to scratch their session in order to create the universe in which they were created. Most ectobiology-free sessions are preceded by a scratched session in which the players were created, as is the case in universe B.
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Oct 16, 2012 03:26
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Quotetype posted:One of the specified qualities of a null session is that none of their players do any ectobiology. No, a null session is one that doesn't result in 'success', ie. making a genesis frog. The B1 session was a null session, and it had ecto-biology. A void session is one that has no pre-entry prototypings, like the B2. No mention is made of ecto-biology. A1 was a null session, A2 was neither.
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Oct 16, 2012 03:54
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Bongo Bill posted:Right, and the fact that it didn't happen that way was an anomaly and one of the reasons (or indications) that A1 was doomed to failure. We don't know why it happened that way. I thought it happened that way due to meddling, likely from Lord English, to ensure his own existence? Maybe I'm misremembering but I thought I remember reading that Damara (Aradia's ancestor-player from A1) did something that screwed up their session because she was suborned by Lord English?
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Oct 16, 2012 04:25
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Dolash posted:I thought it happened that way due to meddling, likely from Lord English, to ensure his own existence? Doc Scratch implied that Lord English caused that, but we still have no idea how he did it, or what limits his ability to meddle with universes and sessions.
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Oct 16, 2012 04:27
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King of Solomon posted:Honestly, it really doesn't. Both universes had one ectobiology session and one group of meteors sent to their respective planets. In the Trollverse, Karkat did the ectobiology for both A1 and A2. In the Kidverse, John did the ectobiology for both B1 and B2. In both sessions, the meteors were effectively cloned and shifted around. Right. But we arent talking about that part. Our point is that we dont know who the troll ecto-parents are. You can't apply the pattern of "Pre-scratch players clone ancestors and create themselves" to the trolls since their ectobiology occured post-scratch, so they could have different circumstances. Im just curious as to who the troll ecto-parents are (Karkat&co or Meenah&co). e: vvvvv Just go the safe route and wear a record shirt and sunglasses. e2: or just go grocery shopping as Mituna what the gently caress just dont do anything god drat KoB fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Oct 16, 2012 |
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Oct 16, 2012 04:28
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So, I have never cosplayed, and never really considered it. But for the first time in a long while, I'm living in a neighborhood where kids trick or treat. And I'm considering answering the door and giving out candy while wearing troll horns or something. Just to see if any of the kids comment. I've got a Selpulcritude shirt. I guess I could answer the door as Hussie in badly-applied troll cosplay. All I'd need is some all-white contacts. Someone talk me out of this.
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Oct 16, 2012 04:29
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Bobulus posted:So, I have never cosplayed, and never really considered it. Can I talk you into it instead?
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