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Frozen Pizza Party
Dec 13, 2005

MrYenko posted:

Sadly, I don't own a camera past the one in my phone. However:


This is what it is. The form matches exactly, he's a dull red, which is a known color morph, and their wild range includes the site where my rock was aquacultured.

Now, to keep it alive!

Shouldn't be too hard, they're pretty tough critters. Congrats on a cool hitchhiker!

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nwin
Feb 25, 2002

make's u think

I'm looking to get into sps. I bought an led retrofit kit for my 14g biocube so I definitely have the lighting for it, just looking for some recommendations as to what to try. I'm figuring ill buy some $10-20 frags from my reef club and see how they do. I don't think I want to try montis though. Any suggestions?

the Pixies fukken SUCKED
Jul 16, 2003

Figure 2 in a series of 3
Easier SPS include:

Pocillipora
Montipora capricornis (plating monti)
Montipora digitata (branching monti)

Most of the ORA corals are pretty hardy, especially Green Slimer, which has failed to die after numerous attempts on it's life on my part.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice
Birdsnests are pocilloporids afaik and they're fairly easy. Pink birdsnests, birds of paradise (ora), etc.

Seriatopora hystrix, Seriatopora guttatus

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Oct 15, 2012

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





I just spent my whole weekend pulling out my 40g sump, resealing, and repainting the inside of my stand. Took apart, cleaned, and redid some of my plumbing (installed a reverse durso).

I'm usually the first to tell someone "eh, salt water tanks don't take as much time as you'd think. They've made a lot of advancements in the past 10-15 years." But every once in a while you lose an entire weekend to it. Ugh.

nwin
Feb 25, 2002

make's u think

Stocking question for my 14g biocube.

I currently have a b/w occ. clown, a tailspot blenny, and a pearly jawfish. I also have a pom pom crab, emerald crab, and a cleaner shrimp.

Would I be out of line by adding another clownfish (obviously going for a smaller clown than the one I currently have so the current one would be dominant)? As far as swimming space is concerned, I don't think it would be an issue. The clownfish I ahve is the only one that swims around the tank. The jawfish stays in their burrow all the time and the tailspot will swim in the open water every now and then, but mostly likes the barnacles I have set up and the different perches on the LR.

My current clown doesn't seem to produce much waste/if any at all. He eats a ton, but very little waste I notice from him. I also do water changes of about 3g every week, so about 30%.

Comments?

visuvius
Sep 24, 2007
sta da moor

nwin posted:

Stocking question for my 14g biocube.

I currently have a b/w occ. clown, a tailspot blenny, and a pearly jawfish. I also have a pom pom crab, emerald crab, and a cleaner shrimp.

Would I be out of line by adding another clownfish (obviously going for a smaller clown than the one I currently have so the current one would be dominant)? As far as swimming space is concerned, I don't think it would be an issue. The clownfish I ahve is the only one that swims around the tank. The jawfish stays in their burrow all the time and the tailspot will swim in the open water every now and then, but mostly likes the barnacles I have set up and the different perches on the LR.

My current clown doesn't seem to produce much waste/if any at all. He eats a ton, but very little waste I notice from him. I also do water changes of about 3g every week, so about 30%.

Comments?

Since your other two fish are pretty low impact and you do such frequent water changes, I would think you'd be okay. You might get poo poo if you mention it on RC though so theres that but you should be fine. Stick with a small one though.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





I think one clown is too much for a 14g. Those 3 fish are too much. Adding another clown is way too much.

"Stick with a small one."

what

Spaceman Future!
Feb 9, 2007

nwin posted:

Stocking question for my 14g biocube.

I currently have a b/w occ. clown, a tailspot blenny, and a pearly jawfish. I also have a pom pom crab, emerald crab, and a cleaner shrimp.

Would I be out of line by adding another clownfish (obviously going for a smaller clown than the one I currently have so the current one would be dominant)? As far as swimming space is concerned, I don't think it would be an issue. The clownfish I ahve is the only one that swims around the tank. The jawfish stays in their burrow all the time and the tailspot will swim in the open water every now and then, but mostly likes the barnacles I have set up and the different perches on the LR.

My current clown doesn't seem to produce much waste/if any at all. He eats a ton, but very little waste I notice from him. I also do water changes of about 3g every week, so about 30%.

Comments?

Well, on those 3 fish alone you're well over the capacity of any mechanical filtration that comes with the 14 g biocube. If you have enough live rock in there and a significantly deep sandbed with frequent water changes they may be stressed, but should at least be functionally healthy if not happy. Adding anything else, anything at all, would be a serious mistake. You're already bordering on stock levels that are well past any healthy limit for a tank of that size, trying to fit a community into a nano tank is ill advised to say the least.

Just as a side point, if your clownfish was producing enough visible waste that you thought there was an issue you would have already lost it. Poop and food scraps are not the primary waste you should be worried about, there's a reason there isn't a water test kit that looks for poop concentration (well, not directly at least)

nwin
Feb 25, 2002

make's u think

Wow, this is pretty surprising considering the stocking you see on nano-reef. Not to say that just because they do it on NR means it's ok, but the vast majority of people seem to have clowns in 10g or less. Internet Explorer, what's the minimum size you would put a clown in?

I don't use the stock filtration in my biocube. I have a media basket in the back with filter floss, purigen and chaeto running, as well as an upgraded sump and powerhead for increased flow. The bioballs and stock filter were removed before the tank has started. I have a 3-4" sandbed for the jawfish.

My tanks been up and running since March and I added the clownfish and blenny in April...both of which have seemed fine the whole time. The jawfish just got added about 1.5 months ago, but she's seemed fine as well, so it's hard to believe that they seem stressed whatsoever.

I'll continue to do some research on it, but will hold off unless I see anything saying opposite.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





The thing is, a young clown, like visuvius said, would be fine in a 14g. But things start to change when they get bigger, especially if you have a pair. They start to sexually mature and then they get very territorial. If they don't have enough space, or other fish don't have enough space and are forced into their territory, they will get stressed. To give you an idea, I had 2 firefish and a yellow watchman goby in my 14g and I thought I was pushing it.

If you want to get another clown, use it as an excuse to upgrade to a 30g cube. Is your clown still young? If so, that may be why you do not see a problem yet. A fully grown clown can get 3 1/2 inches long. Put a ruler up to your tank and see how big that is.

nwin
Feb 25, 2002

make's u think

That makes sense, especially since putting another clown in there would, iirc, cause one of them to change into a female, becoming bigger as well, correct?

My current clown is about 2". I guess my main thing was it seems like I have so much free space in the tank for him to swim, that getting another one wouldn't have been a big deal in my head. The other part of the puzzle that doesn't help is when you see all the LFS have little 1-5 gallon tanks with a small pair of clowns in there trying to sell something. Of course, I don't have the luxury the do in that I have 20 other tanks to put the clowns in as they get bigger.

No upgrading the tank for now. I just put an LED retrofit kit on this tank so I'm heavily invested in it for the moment. Perhaps I'll go for throwing some corals in it to add some more pop to the tank. When I move, I'll probably look at an upgraded tank. Ideally I'd like to do a 40g breeder with a sump, but that might have to wait until I'm done moving around every 3 years in the military.

As an aside, I'm trying to think of what I can put in the tank to make best use of the LED's. I remember when I first got the tank, a lot of people were saying 'yeah...you can't really do too much with the stock lighting. You're going to need to upgrade.' However, after upgrading, sure, the tank runs a bit cooler and it looks better, but I haven't really seen anything to take advantage of the LED's yet. Clams are out of the question as they would get far too big for the tank. The only other thing I'm thinking is some beginner SPS I like, such as the digitata monti's. Anyone have suggestions as far as that is concerned? I have a frogspawn which is doing great. Originally bought it with 3 heads about 3 months ago, it's got 4 heads and splitting another into 5 heads currently. I have some zoas which I'm really not crazy about, especially for the price that some of the higher end ones go for, and I have a piece of display macro in the tank.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





I had a Monti and a Cats Paw (forgot the real name) in my 14g and they both did great. Make sure you leave enough room for the Monti. Mine grew like a weed.

Fermunky
May 30, 2003

The monkey is NOT impressed...
Is this light gonna be overkill for my tank? I only have a 40 gallon breeder, so with the shallow profile, I do not think I'll have a problem with light getting to the bototm

http://www.aquavibrant.com/index.php/lighting/led-fixtures/finnex-ray-ii-ultra-slim-led-db-10000k-actinics.html

Here is what the tank looks like without proper lighting: http://telijah.dyndns-web.com:8888

visuvius
Sep 24, 2007
sta da moor

Internet Explorer posted:

I think one clown is too much for a 14g. Those 3 fish are too much. Adding another clown is way too much.

"Stick with a small one."

what

Opinions, assholes and all that.

The fish he currently has are in no way too much for a 14 gallon cube. I mean unless these are huge 6 year old fish, I seriously doubt they are stressed out.

I like when people talk so non nonchalantly about a fish getting to 3 1/2 inches. Do you realize how loving long it would take for a small 1.5 inch clown to grow two full inches? Enough to overgrow a 14 gallon tank? A really loving long time. Probably longer than the tank is even around since most peoples tank turnover seems to be like under 2 years.

Basil Fawlty
Aug 28, 2003

I AM A FAGORT, HUMP MY RUMP!!!
I have a bit of a problem, and I could use some advice. I'm running a 24G nanocube, plenty of live rock, and some inverts and some coral frags.

A week ago, this is what my Nephthea looked like:


I just came home and found him looking like this:


What could cause that huge, ugly white scar on him? Did something get hungry and start eating him? All I have living in the tank now are a cleaner shrimp and a peppermint shrimp, a turbo snail, some narcissus snails, and who have all been around for the last 8 months and haven't been a problem in the past. The only recent change was a week and a half ago I bought a small Squamosa clam from my LFS - I'm worried that something might have come in with him.

Oh, and for the record, water params are good, and I do 20% water changes every other week.

Edit: The coral has been opening up a bit more, but there's still that big wound

Basil Fawlty fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Oct 19, 2012

visuvius
Sep 24, 2007
sta da moor
Could there have been some kind of temperature fluctuation that you were not aware of?

Basil Fawlty
Aug 28, 2003

I AM A FAGORT, HUMP MY RUMP!!!

visuvius posted:

Could there have been some kind of temperature fluctuation that you were not aware of?

I have a heater on a thermostat, so the temperature wouldn't have dropped below 76 degrees, at the lowest. And last night wasn't too cold. The temperature now is right around 80, and I don't think it's had the chance to get any warmer than that, either.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





I see the gash you are talking about, and I don't really know what could have caused it. That said, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Those are very hardy corals and it won't cause any long-term damage.

Basil Fawlty
Aug 28, 2003

I AM A FAGORT, HUMP MY RUMP!!!
I did an emergency 20% water change, good news is the coral is perking up and filling out a bit more, bad news is it looks like the wound is getting bigger.

Lusername
Sep 22, 2005
The truth is just an excuse for a lack of imagination.
Dosing question: For the last year I've been dosing sodium bicarbonate for alkalinity (40g per week), and calcium chloride dihydrate for calcium (70g per week). Haven't needed to dose anything for magnesium. Is it fine to continue doing this? Am I going to be in trouble somewhere down the line from a build up of sodium chloride/NaCl? I've been slacking on water changes recently which is part of the reason why I'm asking.

the Pixies fukken SUCKED
Jul 16, 2003

Figure 2 in a series of 3
Do you test your levels? Usually the calcium and alkalinity are consumed by corals as they build their skeleton. How did you come to the figures for dosing that you have now? When was the last time you tested them?

Usually the range of 7-12 dKH is palatable for corals, provided the changes are done slowly enough. Above that and you'll start seeing alk burn, or you'd also see it if the levels change too quickly. Symptoms would be burnt tips and tissue loss on stony corals, or shriveled soft corals.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





So I got my LAZER a few weeks ago, but having started a new job, haven't really had time to play with it. At first I was a little disappointed, but then I found out that it has a lens that you have to focus, depending on how far away the target is. Once you get that poo poo dialed in I can hear the Apitasia crackling and popping in the tank. It's pretty sweet.

visuvius
Sep 24, 2007
sta da moor
Is it just a standard red laser? I'm guessing one of those deal extreme, take down a plane jobs? Seems like a good idea for apstasia but are you hosed if you nail something else with it or A fishes eye?

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





visuvius posted:

Is it just a standard red laser? I'm guessing one of those deal extreme, take down a plane jobs? Seems like a good idea for apstasia but are you hosed if you nail something else with it or A fishes eye?

I posted about it earlier in the thread. It's blue 1W. Basically this - http://lazerer.com/blue-laser-pointer/lzcs-445nm-1w-classic-focusable-blue-laser-pointer

Yeah, you are hosed if it hits a fish's eye. I have a 90g and only 6 fish and they all tend to head towards the other end of the tank if you come up too close. And I have been watching out for them, as my clowns are kind of curious. It's fairly precise and can get Apitasia that is between zoas or palys without damaging them.

[Edit: Thread on RC about it - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2090418]

yeah I eat ass
Mar 14, 2005

only people who enjoy my posting can replace this avatar
My tank has recovered from the crash a month or so ago - I've rebuilt the cleanup crew and things are going well. I am now thinking of future stocking - right now I am thinking a purple firefish (or two? I read some places that they like being in groups/pairs but others have said they will fight each other). If I do, would a six line wrasse be ok to add a few weeks/a month or so after? I know they can be a little territorial, but I've heard if you add them as the last fish in the aquarium they will usually be fine. Any thoughts/suggestions?

optikalus
Apr 17, 2008
sixlines are territorial, but if they have a lot of room to move about, it should help out. I had one with a couple of clowns, a tang and a flame angel and it was fine until it decided that the floor looked comfy. Just add them after the more docile fish, and don't expect to be able to add any smaller fish or other wrasses after them.

Which brings me to another thing.. both firefish and wrasses are jumpers. Make sure you have a good lid or at least a grate.

Lusername
Sep 22, 2005
The truth is just an excuse for a lack of imagination.

Melchior posted:

Do you test your levels? Usually the calcium and alkalinity are consumed by corals as they build their skeleton. How did you come to the figures for dosing that you have now? When was the last time you tested them?

Usually the range of 7-12 dKH is palatable for corals, provided the changes are done slowly enough. Above that and you'll start seeing alk burn, or you'd also see it if the levels change too quickly. Symptoms would be burnt tips and tissue loss on stony corals, or shriveled soft corals.

Yep, I test for calcium and alkalinity, and dose to keep them at 420ppm, and 8dKH respectively. It's through testing I've been able to dial-in how much to dose each day to keep my parameters stable.

All my softies are growing fast, along with my plating montipora and tridacna clam. My two euphyllia LPS corals (hammer and torch) are somewhat shrivelling and shrinking though. I've also had some bleaching recently of my seriatopora hystrix and pocilloora damicornis which grew excellently for around six months.

Salinity 1.025. Lighting and flow aren't a problem. Run a phosphate reactor and carbon. Nitrates are 0 and phosphate 0.08 (although I do have some algae which is slowly reducing, so I guess nutrients are technically higher than those tests show).

So yeah, I'm really trying to explain why my corals have taken a turn for the worse recently. There was a temperature spike during the summer, but fans have now fixed that. It could perhaps be a vodka overdose which I've reduced to a third dosage for over a month now, but maybe that's still too much. The only other thing I could think was perhaps the sodium from the sodium bicarbonate, and the chloride from the calcium chloride dihydrate have been combining to form sodium chloride, thereby slowly turning the water into brine.

Possibly unrelated, but I've also noticed my skimmer has been pulling out a heck of a lot less skimmate since things began going downhill. I've cleaned and serviced the pumps, and properly configured the skimmer to run as wet as possible (and yet it still only produces a dry skim) so I don't believe that's to blame, but maybe a symptom of something else. If anyone has any ideas I'd be much obliged.

the Pixies fukken SUCKED
Jul 16, 2003

Figure 2 in a series of 3

Lusername posted:

Yep, I test for calcium and alkalinity, and dose to keep them at 420ppm, and 8dKH respectively. It's through testing I've been able to dial-in how much to dose each day to keep my parameters stable.

All my softies are growing fast, along with my plating montipora and tridacna clam. My two euphyllia LPS corals (hammer and torch) are somewhat shrivelling and shrinking though. I've also had some bleaching recently of my seriatopora hystrix and pocilloora damicornis which grew excellently for around six months.

Salinity 1.025. Lighting and flow aren't a problem. Run a phosphate reactor and carbon. Nitrates are 0 and phosphate 0.08 (although I do have some algae which is slowly reducing, so I guess nutrients are technically higher than those tests show).

So yeah, I'm really trying to explain why my corals have taken a turn for the worse recently. There was a temperature spike during the summer, but fans have now fixed that. It could perhaps be a vodka overdose which I've reduced to a third dosage for over a month now, but maybe that's still too much. The only other thing I could think was perhaps the sodium from the sodium bicarbonate, and the chloride from the calcium chloride dihydrate have been combining to form sodium chloride, thereby slowly turning the water into brine.

Possibly unrelated, but I've also noticed my skimmer has been pulling out a heck of a lot less skimmate since things began going downhill. I've cleaned and serviced the pumps, and properly configured the skimmer to run as wet as possible (and yet it still only produces a dry skim) so I don't believe that's to blame, but maybe a symptom of something else. If anyone has any ideas I'd be much obliged.

Your phosphates may be TOO low. Please refer to the following posts for my logic as he explains it better than I ever could:

Big E posted:


"Honestly, I have no clue what my PO4 levels are. For this set up I wanted to let my coral colors on my acros & algae growth dictate how much I wanted to manage nutrients. In other words, use my eyes more than chase numbers. I get a light film of algae appox after about 2 days.

I'm pretty sure I'm not below .10 PO4. I should probably borrow a Hanna & check it for curiosity sakes. I sold my old meter about 3 years ago.

I have a few acros that are canarys & use the colors on them to give me clues.

I believe too many people knock down the nutrients too low & that's when problems happen. Some algae controlled by snails is a good thing.

When you look back at all the old TOTM those guys all had nice bright deep colors unless the acro was naturally light. That was before we could measure PO4. The tanks rocked with high par.

That's what my goal is with this tank natural pastels like say for Pearberry or say a light deepwater, & rockin deep bright colors for the other acros.

Too often now it's all pastel on most tanks I see.........people have gone too far. "

Here's his entire thread on RC. His stuff has some gorgeous coloration.

Basically at least what I've noticed in my own tank:

Too much nutrients/not enough light = browning.
Too little nutrients/too much light = bleaching/fading

Logic being that zooxanthellae is actually is what converts light into energy for corals. Brown corals have a LOT of zooanthellae, which indicates they are operating in a lower light condition, where too much light the colonies are greatly reduced which causes fading and bleaching.

As for nutrients, in my own experience I start seeing corals lose color towards brown if I have too much in the tank. If I forget to clean the skimmer for that week I have 'canary' corals that tell me what's going on. They darken and brown instead of keep rich color.

It's also partially light but what you're telling me of your setup (you run GFO non stop i take it?), low phosphate may indicate a cause. Your corals may be starving if you don't have much skimmate and your corals are lightening up. I've seen this happen in Very-Low Nutrient systems as well (usually the common thread is 'my corals are fading and my parameters are fine! or something to that effect). In essence, too perfect.

Hope this helps. I don't run GFO/Carbon at all, and I get good color on most of my corals except ones that may be more sensitive to phosphates (which seem to die). I could remedy this with more frequent larger changes to keep the phosphate levels down, but I'm lazy with them so that probably explains it.

the Pixies fukken SUCKED fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Oct 24, 2012

Fermunky
May 30, 2003

The monkey is NOT impressed...
New light is in. For the price, not bad I suppose. Finnex Ray II DB model, 36"

The Dregs
Dec 29, 2005

MY TREEEEEEEE!
I kept a reef tank years ago and I have recently been considering making a smaller setup lately. When I did have a big tank I realized that my prime interest was always in the tiny stuff. I kept some fish and corals in there, but they were just there because that's whats supposed to be in an aquarium. I loved looking in the liverock for 'pods and watching my covetous hermits do their thing.

So now I think I am just going to make a nano set up for the little guys. Hermits, snails, 'pods, bristleworms, crabs...stuff like that. Maybe a fish and some mushrooms or xenia so I don't have to explain to visitors why I have an empty tank.

Since I have been out of the loop for 5 years or so, I'd appreciate some advice on setting this up. I was thinking getting a 20 with a couple HOB mechanical filters and some PC lighting (if I even need it). Would that work? I could splurge on extra nice LR from the local stores, since my tank will be so small.

Do the live sand or 'grunge' kits from the various online retailers like IPSF or GARF live up to their hype, or are they mostly bullshit?

TooLShack
Jun 3, 2001

SMILE, BIRTHDAY BOY!
Check out craigslist for some used stuff, since you aren't going crazy with corals or anything I'm sure you could score to decent equipment on the cheap.

visuvius
Sep 24, 2007
sta da moor
Yah if I were going to start a nano I'd look for a a used Advanced Aquarium all in one or an Innovative Marine. You see used ones all the time. If you don't want to spend extra for the premium ones, you can still make a nice setup with a used JBJ 12 or 24.

For lighting, I'd just get a couple Ecoxotic strips or a used Kessil. This all depends on how much you want to spend of course.

My 12 gallon Aquapod was awesome and it was a pretty simple setup with no skimmer. Just a media basket with some Chemipure, Phosban and chaeto.

Again, look for used stuff on the forums, you can find some killer deals.

The Dregs
Dec 29, 2005

MY TREEEEEEEE!
Which forums do you mean? Here? I checked CL last night, pickins' were pretty slim here, and people want way too much for their old cichlid tanks.

Thanks for the advice! I have never even heard of most of the stuff you guys told me to look for. I was looking a basic 20H. Now I can expand my search a bit.

visuvius
Sep 24, 2007
sta da moor

The Dregs posted:

Which forums do you mean? Here? I checked CL last night, pickins' were pretty slim here, and people want way too much for their old cichlid tanks.

Thanks for the advice! I have never even heard of most of the stuff you guys told me to look for. I was looking a basic 20H. Now I can expand my search a bit.

Check these two sites mostly:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showforum=11


For the size you're looking for, I would keep a real close eye on the Nano Reef Hardware Classified forum. If I were looking for a tank, here are a couple of quick examples of posts I would explore possibly:

http://www.socalireefs.com/forums/showthread.php?34751-Solana-34-gallon-for-sale
http://www.socalireefs.com/forums/showthread.php?34852-complete-biocube-29-setup-n-other-stuff

I REALLY like this one and if I had not just spent a ton of cash at Reefapalooza, I would probably get this setup for my office:

http://www.socalireefs.com/forums/showthread.php?34266-FS-Advanced-Acrylic-AIO-Mini-Reef-Tank


Theres some nice stuff out there. Note the kind of cleaner, "higher quality" look of the Advanced Acrlyic tank. The JBJs are nice too but there are some brands out there now that look pretty drat fantastic. Innovative Marine is a good budget brand that mimics some of the higher quality stuff.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice
Do not buy new Advanced Acrylics tanks because it takes the dude like 5 months to ship them out. Seriously.

Buy them used (and in good condition), they're actually high quality.

The Dregs
Dec 29, 2005

MY TREEEEEEEE!
Found a local 29G with mechanical filter and a decent wooden stand plus miscellaneous accessories for $100. I might go with that. Sound like a good deal?

visuvius
Sep 24, 2007
sta da moor
Yeah I mean that sounds like a good price. How old is it and what brand? Make sure there are no leaks and minimal scratching. Is it an all in one with the chambers in the back?

The Dregs
Dec 29, 2005

MY TREEEEEEEE!
(EDIT)

I ended up buying a 55H with stand, canopy, and various accessories for $85.00. Not a bad deal! 55h is horrible for growing coral, but it's fine for me because I really don't care if I grow them or not. low light softies are fine in my book.

I am going to start some serious researching now. Everything I have read so far has been nano stuff. I am going to begin by reading this thread from the beginning. I have lots of choices to make. If anyone has any ideas on making this come out as low cost as possible, I would appreciate it. I think I am going to go with cheap sand if I can find it, and maybe deadrock.

The Dregs fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Oct 27, 2012

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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice


VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Oct 30, 2012

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