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Coward posted:I have a couple more Stan stories. But it was actually cool! Given how he rejected your offer arrange a way for Skumm's return, I kind of wonder if he intentionally did something stupid to have an excuse to make another guy.
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Oct 26, 2012 06:47
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If your giant doom spaceship takes a ton of traffic to supply and maintain when it's in a proper port with all the proper poo poo right there, it probs takes two tons when it's out in the field trying to look inconspicuous. How many 100% loyal freighter crews the badguys have to devote to just that one project? I mean I'm hazy on the SWEU poo poo, but we're pretty much talking the equivalent of an invisible aircraft carrier floating around the open ocean, trying to stay invisible while getting ferried all the poo poo both mundane and exotic an aircraft carrier needs to keep running indefinitely from the same handful of seaports by your usual batch of misanthropes the important people felt weren't quite qualified to crew a ship with actual guns, right? Oh and the military involved just went out of its way to try and blow up as much of its logistics tree as possible, which probably did wonders for both morale and the pool of actually qualified secret-ops bulk hauler crews. The space occupied by the ship itself is nothing, it has no fixed location and can stay hidden forever if it wants to only pop up at the absolute worst time and place. The space occupied by all the poo poo needed to keep it out there with working engines and a still-alive crew is another story. This doesn't sound like the job for super space radar, this sounds like a job for paying off the Teamsters. Maybe they don't find the star destroyers that way, maybe they just find the supply depots where they're keeping all the expensive and now increasingly rare replacement parts for whatever poo poo is constantly breaking down on invisible space battleships (probably the toilets). Tubgirl Cosplay fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Oct 26, 2012 |
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Oct 26, 2012 07:27
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Except all the teamsters just quit/died/were left behind. The only people still loyal to the empire are the few core elite on their remaining ships. You heard DCB, they're like Al Qaida with SSD's. You really think the people who stayed behind after Coruscant falls, the empire basically crumbles to pieces, and the emperor dies are going to sell out the last big weapons they've got left for a few bucks? Have you never seen fanatics before? And besides, don't forget that these dudes are floating around with a planet-sized space station right there. Who needs a port when you can just dock with the Death Star II and put all those work crews who were there to use. The only thing they really need shipped in are things that a few dedicated, loyal crews can slip out from pretty much anywhere in the galaxy, without even having to break a sweat. You're thinking of it like a battleship in the pacific, when you should be thinking about it like a couple of privateers in the Caribbean. There's a hell of a lot of planets in the galaxy, dude. Besides, I was mainly just taking offense at your amazing new idea that was already discussed three days ago. 
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Oct 26, 2012 07:39
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I know what to do about the Death Star: attack it from behind! Seriously, think about it. Most of its defenses are turbolasers with relatively small arcs of fire. It doesn't have a shield because it's not orbiting the Endor moon. Park a few dozen Mon Cal ships right below its rear end and fire into the superstructure. When it starts to turn, have the crusiers broadside it and jet out. Harry it until the SSDs have no choice but to reveal themselves. Also, all this is cover for the real plan, which is to get a decent sized chunk of Alderaan, fit it with some hyperdrives, and steer it right into the path of the DSII.
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Oct 26, 2012 07:58
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Privateers relied on having a nearly uncontested global superpower with secure ports and all the supplies they could ever need in order to stay alive at all and still were a small force for a specific context that got their poo poo ruined on a regular basis. You wanna see how that works without the full support (including actual real navy) of an empire the sun never sets on, look at what pirates are now. The thing about Al Qaeda guys is they have all the same needs as any other army (loads more people supplying food and bombs and keeping things running than get to tool around blowing poo poo up being holy warriors) and at some point have to pull some or all of that from non-elite cadre members or else give up 99% of their combat strength - and as a consequence are sustaining information leaks all the time. They're just structurally equipped to contain the damage: keeping everything in tiny cells with limited interaction means if cousin Shamir who goes out to pick up the kebabs and is completely devout and loyal but never completely got over that time a mule kicked him in the head as a child or Ahmed who got stuck on gun-cleaning duty and is pretty burnt out on the whole glorious martyr thing get too chatty with a snitch in town they're probably only going to directly screw maybe half a dozen relatively expendable people, 'cause that's all they know about. And by the time those guys have all been rounded up and waterboarded everyone they know about knows the jig is up and has gone into hiding. You can't run a naval fleet on a cell structure, or even build a boat worth a drat, which is why Al Qaeda's MO is a handful of dudes at a time with boxcutters and underpants bombs. You can't hide the occupying army's airfields, not without giving up the ability to occupy in the first place. When guerrilla forces want to operate on a battlefield scale they drop the concealment and begin acting as conventional armies with a territory and a rear line. With some internal discipline you can keep secret where your operational tip-of-the-spear forces are for a while (and navies did, back in the pre-satellite days), but everything beyond that is a lost cause informationally, it's fixed in place and highly visible and pretty much has to be defended. There's a hell of a lot of planets, which is why searching them and surrounding hell of a lot more of nothing at all instead of finding a way to get the relevant information to come to you is a bad idea. Tubgirl Cosplay fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Oct 26, 2012 |
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Oct 26, 2012 08:11
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But here's the thing. Right now, the Empire has the best of all worlds in those contexts. They've got the tiny Al Qaida cell, they ditched pretty much all their planetary holdings. But they have the ships to make any minor forays completely ineffectual, because they can just use their massive, powerful, completely invisible SSD's to blow them to bits. So they don't have to cover the airfield, they just have to keep it moving. If Tommy Sheepfucker comes out of an asteroid field and sees the Death Star II floating there, he's not making it out alive. With the Death Star II functioning as a mobile platform, all they need are things like food, fuel, and basic repair materials, any of which can be bought without suspicion at any of the billion ports in the galaxy. As long as they don't send a Lambda-class shuttle or an obvious Imperial Tanker to port, they can slip all the supplies they need from anywhere without making so much as a ripple. They don't need the support of a Real Navy because A) They are the real navy, and B) Space Is Big. In a stand-up fight, if the enemy brings anything less than their A+ game, they're going to be shredded. And if they do, all the bad guys have to do is run away. But most of all, you're trying to compare modern military tactics to a space fantasy game. Sure, there's analogies that can be drawn, like the Bin Laden in Space one, and ports and ships and stuff. But when you start mentioning conventional armies and entrenched positions, you're losing sight of the fact that they have giant invisible spaceships that are incredibly powerful. That's the entire reason we're having this discussion, if these guys could just stopper up a few ports and fortify some defenses to solve this issue, there wouldn't even be a need. Conventional thinking is not applicable in this situation, you've got to think so far outside of the box, you can't even see the box anymore. The box is a dot.
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Oct 26, 2012 08:34
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Correction: They have two giant invisible spaceships. And no shipyard capable of handling them (at least, I don't recall the Death Star involving a Star Destroyer drydock). And their enemies have the blueprints.
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Oct 26, 2012 08:40
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I've been itching for a chance to post this  Yep, that's a Super Star Destroyer inside the Death Star's drydock. It's mentioned, somewhere, that not only did it have the space and requirements for maintenance, but they could actually be built in the drat thing too.
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Oct 26, 2012 08:45
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Haha welp, is there anything in the SWEU that isn't completely over-the-top? Looking forward to the story of the session where they finally after long effort track down the two invisi-destroyers that have been raiding the gently caress out of the shipping lines, only to ambush three.
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Oct 26, 2012 08:53
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Tubgirl Cosplay posted:Haha welp, is there anything in the SWEU that isn't completely over-the-top? In the movies, the empire manages to construct two planet-sized space stations which can power one weapon that's able to blow up a planet. In the EU, they build half a dozen star destroyers armed with the same drat thing that can blow up an enemy ship from a light-year away. Edit: Also, I just realized we probably gave DCB a reason to hate us when his GM steals this idea: Tubgirl Cosplay posted:Looking forward to the story of the session where they finally after long effort track down the two invisi-destroyers that have been raiding the gently caress out of the shipping lines, only to ambush three. Because I know if I was his GM, and reading this thread, I would steal this idea so fast heads would spin. Captain Bravo fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Oct 26, 2012 |
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Oct 26, 2012 09:08
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Captain Bravo posted:Edit: Also, I just realized we probably gave DCB a reason to hate us when his GM steals this idea: I know he reads the thread on occasion (I keep pestering him to join; I even handed him  ), and if he steals the idea I shan't be upset; the more cloaked SSDs there are, the more opportunities for us to steal one or two.Remember, this is the same group that, upon seeing that the Imperials were directing an ambush in our direction, and noticing an Interdictor (among other ships) cruising in inertially (that is, they got up to speed and then powered down everything they could in order to keep us from noticing them - which woulda worked if not for Force powers), promptly said "Hey, an Interdictor. Aren't we always saying we want more of those? Let's go get that one." And did just that. That's one of the other great things about our GM - if we outsmart him, he doesn't get mad; he runs with it. And then thinks of ways it might end up biting us in the rear end in the end...
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Oct 26, 2012 11:12
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Captain Bravo posted:In the movies, the empire manages to construct two planet-sized space stations which can power one weapon that's able to blow up a planet. In the EU, they build half a dozen star destroyers armed with the same drat thing that can blow up an enemy ship from a light-year away. Wasn't there also something like a huge cannon that pretty much looked like a space telescope that could somehow start off a nuclear reaction inside a sun, effectively destroying its entire solar system? It was in Dark Empire, if I recall correctly. I might have something to post in this thread after tonight. I'm running a game of Old School Hack as a divergence from our Adventurer Conqueror King hex-crawl. If it goes well, I might put the ACKS game on hold for a while and focus on running OSH for a while at least.
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Oct 26, 2012 11:18
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Ratpick posted:Wasn't there also something like a huge cannon that pretty much looked like a space telescope that could somehow start off a nuclear reaction inside a sun, effectively destroying its entire solar system? It was in Dark Empire, if I recall correctly. Haha, the loving Sun Crusher. Pretty sure at this point that thing's still sitting inside the secret research installation in the Maw. Assuming it's even finished yet.
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Oct 26, 2012 12:08
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NinjaDebugger posted:Haha, the loving Sun Crusher. Pretty sure at this point that thing's still sitting inside the secret research installation in the Maw. Assuming it's even finished yet. Not the one I was thinking of, but holy poo poo. Big loving superweapons sure are a thing the EU.  I was just trying to find out what the superweapon I was thinking about actually was, but couldn't find it. I did, however, find out that one model of Star Destroyers in the Expanded Universe was equipped with a laser on the same scale as the one on the Death Star.
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Oct 26, 2012 12:22
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Ratpick posted:Not the one I was thinking of, but holy poo poo. Big loving superweapons sure are a thing the EU. Not exactly. The superlasers on that class of Star Destroyer are "merely" 2/3's as powerful as a full-scale Death Star version.
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Oct 26, 2012 12:25
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Ratpick posted:Not the one I was thinking of, but holy poo poo. Big loving superweapons sure are a thing the EU. Well, Big Scary Impressive Super Death Machines were always a thing for the Empire - there is no logical reason to build something as loving contrived as the AT-AT save for 'it looks cool and also scary.' The notion of a superweapon tied in neatly to Palpatine's style; big enough that it obviously represented State Power because no private organization could ever build one, and nasty enough that it would be able to obliterate anyone dumb enough to fight it. The intimidation factor was vastly more important to Palpatine than the practicality or the efficiency. See also the way that Star Destroyers ballooned in size from the relatively modest Victory-class SDs to the stupidly massive Executor-class SSD.
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Oct 26, 2012 12:33
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Ratpick posted:Not the one I was thinking of, but holy poo poo. Big loving superweapons sure are a thing the EU. You could have been thinking of the Darksaber, maybe? That's "just" the death star superlaser without all that excess battlestation wrapped around it.
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Oct 26, 2012 12:43
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NinjaDebugger posted:You could have been thinking of the Darksaber, maybe? That's "just" the death star superlaser without all that excess battlestation wrapped around it. Actually, a quick look at Wookiepedia now confirms that it was the Galaxy Gun! I remembered the part about it being made by a reborn Palpatine correctly, but my mind did tricks on me and vastly exaggerated its destructive potential. In my defense, it's been a while since I read Dark Empire. 
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Oct 26, 2012 13:06
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NinjaDebugger posted:You could have been thinking of the Darksaber, maybe? That's "just" the death star superlaser without all that excess battlestation wrapped around it. The Eclipse was also a DS laser equipped SSD. It was Palpatine's personal ride if I recall correctly.
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Oct 26, 2012 14:25
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Well, Big Scary Impressive Super Death Machines were always a thing for the Empire - there is no logical reason to build something as loving contrived as the AT-AT save for 'it looks cool and also scary.' The notion of a superweapon tied in neatly to Palpatine's style; big enough that it obviously represented State Power because no private organization could ever build one, and nasty enough that it would be able to obliterate anyone dumb enough to fight it. The intimidation factor was vastly more important to Palpatine than the practicality or the efficiency. The AT-AT is, once we accept that wheels and treads are rarer in Starwarsland, not all that bad if we assume it's designed for urbanized planets and assaulting skyscrapers and multistory buildings from the top up. That explains why it's so tall, why the only way to get down is to rappel, etc. And they use it everywhere because they're fascists and so don't do anything efficiently. But yeah. Funniest thing about the Executor? If you look at the model, it doesn't have any guns bigger than the heaviest guns on a regular SD. It's literally just a stretched SD.
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Oct 26, 2012 14:33
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I've never read any of the Star Wars EU stuff. My primary exposure is having friends or strangers spew forth about how Uber the Force is and how amazing lightsabers are and if you filthy non force user heathens so much as look at one you will automatically chop your dick off/They will just explode if a non force user tries to build them because you can't be as presices as a force user placing a focusing crystal with their bare hands. (You wield a weapon that will explode violently if a small part is off by the most infinitesimal margin, and you use it by smashing it into everything? You don't see how crazy that sounds?) However, incidental net exposure has me forgive the EU for this (always completely ignored) little piece of Lore. Lightfoils. Basically proof that the only reason Lightsabers are any more powerful, or at all difficult to use, is because  http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightfoil They are just like Lightsabers in every way except two details. 1) Sith's used to use them, and back then they were just as powerful as a lightsaber. 2) Rich aristocrats with no force powers manufacture and use them, Weaker than a lightsaber. Anybody can use them, therefore all the reasons ever given that wielding a lighsaber is 'Like, SUPER hard, man' is bullshit. I like to pretend the reason Lightsabers are stronger because  is that the Force is a big drama queen and if any jackoff starts swinging around the things, people might not think they are as cool anymore. So the Force is actively trying to kill people who use Lightsabers without permission.Besides, "Not as strong as a lightsaber" just means it might take TWO swings to bisect an AT-ST down the middle, without having people scream at you "make a force roll to not kill yourself or have it explode  " every half second.
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Oct 26, 2012 14:33
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Section Z posted:I've never read any of the Star Wars EU stuff. My primary exposure is having friends or strangers spew forth about how Uber the Force is and how amazing lightsabers are and if you filthy non force user heathens so much as look at one you will automatically chop your dick off/They will just explode if a non force user tries to build them because you can't be as presices as a force user placing a focusing crystal with their bare hands. (You wield a weapon that will explode violently if a small part is off by the most infinitesimal margin, and you use it by smashing it into everything? You don't see how crazy that sounds?) You shouldn't forgive the EU this, because the first bit of EU, the Marvel comics, featured at least one non-Force-sensitive fellow with a lightsaber, who dueled Vader and died. And the movies show that you can use a lightsaber without being a Jedi, too! All the nonsense about needing the Force to create lightsabers is trying to clumsily fit in the Japanese legends of master swordsmiths and then removing the ordinary swords, or replacing them with inherently inferior versions even though that makes no loving sense.
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Oct 26, 2012 15:34
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Chaltab posted:Also, all this is cover for the real plan, which is to get a decent sized chunk of Alderaan, fit it with some hyperdrives, and steer it right into the path of the DSII. This is great.
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Oct 26, 2012 15:51
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I've steered the hell clear of any non-movie Star Wars stuff ever since someone told me Darth Vader's gloves were officially called Mandalorian Crushgaunts and had a ten-page backstory but did literally every single author write in their own Luek Airskipper and a Mortality Sun that's totally more badass and powerful than every other already existing one?
Tubgirl Cosplay fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Oct 26, 2012 |
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Oct 26, 2012 16:35
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Section Z posted:Lightfoils. Basically proof that the only reason Lightsabers are any more powerful, or at all difficult to use, is because I know very little about Star Wars, but it was always my impression that lightsabers are only used by force-sensitives because other people have blasters and guns and you need to have force powers to do the deflect-the-bullet thing, without which you basically have a normal sword against a normal gun? Not that they were hard to use but that they were stupid to use if you did not explicitly have magic powers. Is this not true?
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Oct 26, 2012 16:51
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Adelheid posted:I know very little about Star Wars, but it was always my impression that lightsabers are only used by force-sensitives because other people have blasters and guns and you need to have force powers to do the deflect-the-bullet thing, without which you basically have a normal sword against a normal gun? Not that they were hard to use but that they were stupid to use if you did not explicitly have magic powers. Is this not true? Even if you were skilled enough to avoid the risk burning or maiming yourself, there's not much you can do about a blaster.
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Oct 26, 2012 17:28
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Adelheid posted:I know very little about Star Wars, but it was always my impression that lightsabers are only used by force-sensitives because other people have blasters and guns and you need to have force powers to do the deflect-the-bullet thing, without which you basically have a normal sword against a normal gun? Not that they were hard to use but that they were stupid to use if you did not explicitly have magic powers. Is this not true? Non-Force users can use a lightsaber, it's just that they're terrifying. Think about this - you're holding a column of superheated plasma or whatever; when you swing it, it cuts through anything with hardly any resistance. How many times do you think you have to be only slightly less than perfect with it before you accidentally lop off your own foot? I don't give a poo poo if you're the reincarnation of Musashi himself, eventually you'll get unbalanced or you'll get parried just so... and there's no edge of the lightsaber that isn't a cutting edge. I mean, we all carry them, because they're wonderful Universal Cutting Tools... but to actually swing the things around like in combat? Are you nuts?!? My initial guess for the Lightfoil would be that the weaker ones can be used by non-Force-sensitives because they're weaker, and a careless or mistimed swing will hurt but not immediately lop off limbs (as a 'foil' they're almost certainly designed more for thrusting anyways), but then I haven't actually done any research in that department. That's just the excuse I would give to make the source material make sense, is all.
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Oct 26, 2012 17:38
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Besides, the more recent trilogy showed how hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side.
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Oct 26, 2012 17:43
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Hey Divine Coffee Binge, I was curious if you and the DM might have a document of the house rules you use for your Star Wars D20 game. I have been...jumpstarted into wanting to either run or play in one, and since your epic game is so far underway, I'm going to try my own hand and would love some possible rule changes that makes the system a little less wonky. masam fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Oct 26, 2012 |
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Oct 26, 2012 18:18
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homullus posted:Besides, the more recent trilogy showed how hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I_Ds2ytz4o
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Oct 26, 2012 19:01
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All this lightsaberchat reminds me of my own, far less awesome but now hilarious in hindsight D6 Star Wars story. We had an on-and-off game that lasted all through high school, where I started off as some cyborg archetype I can't recall the name of, and decided to be Force Sensitive. Over the next four years I spent dozens of character points to pick up all the starting Jedi Force Powers in-game, and eventually made my own lightsaber. Then the first time I actually use the drat thing, I roll below the "safe handling" threshold and do 30 points of damage to myself, instant death. It was clear to everyone at the table that my character had just instantly decapitated himself. gently caress D6 Star Wars.
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Oct 26, 2012 23:20
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Adelheid posted:I know very little about Star Wars, but it was always my impression that lightsabers are only used by force-sensitives because other people have blasters and guns and you need to have force powers to do the deflect-the-bullet thing, without which you basically have a normal sword against a normal gun? Not that they were hard to use but that they were stupid to use if you did not explicitly have magic powers. Is this not true? But pretty much all my personal exposure to people, friends and "just some people on that game/running that game" tended to be of the mouth frothing Force User of gently caress YOU opinion. I wasn't joking when I said they were of the 'Lightsabers will explode like a bomb if any non force user tries to tinker with one or build one. Don't you dare loving TOUCH one with your filthy non force user hands... No, you can't have a force user. No, you can't have cortosis anything.' mindset. Fanboy Friend was more "really really convinced that they are just that cool" than "Hah, non sensitives  " But basically everyone else Ive run into when looking at any Star Wars game... Fanboy friend was also the one convinced Zero from Megaman X could solo Unicron.Still, I will always have the time in one game my Gunsmith (fascinated with slugthrowers) pulled a sweet jump to grab the ceiling cables in a toppling ruins of a ship crash. While freaking FOUR force users (Friend in that game just couldn't Force Jump ever, earlier failing to force jump to attack a Dinosaur) along for the ride all botched their Force Jumps and landed in electrified water  I said my dice were fueled by the power of spite, which tended to be true (I fire my blaster pistol out of spite at the dinosaur... Well, they didn't need that dinosaur eyeball anyways).I think that scene mysteriously dried up and nobody got back to it. I wonder why?
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Oct 27, 2012 00:48
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DCB, I would like to say thank you for inspiring me to get my friends to start a Star Wars campaign, we are having fun failing all but the most critical saves that would prevent us from total party wipes. In question for finding cloaked SSDs, it may be extremely difficult due to their small size, but you could try gravitational wobbles. Small wobbles in a large stellar mass that occur when large objects interact gravitation(we have found hundreds of exosolar worlds this way). Monitoring wobbles in satellites with very accurate systems could in theory pick up these wobbles as a hidden SSD would show up nearby and send that information to a nearby fleet. It wouldn't work that well outside a solar system, but if they aren't in a solar system then you shouldn't have to worry about it.
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Oct 27, 2012 01:01
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Considering it was with Luke's lightsaber that Han cut open the Tauntaun, they really have no excuse to be such jackasses.
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Oct 27, 2012 01:32
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Chaltab posted:Considering it was with Luke's lightsaber that Han cut open the Tauntaun, they really have no excuse to be such jackasses. Yeah, no gaming better than bad gaming. I pretty much never even bothered finishing with chargen and walked out of internet lands so much they blur together. I do recall one of the more sad justifications people gave for "Non force users are just as good as force users!", in whatever the hell cobbled together from pre-existing MUSH systems mechanics a game being created (Fanboy friend got me an early entrance, such as it were. Half of me knew better but my pal was trying to help set it up). They did a staged example of with admitted by them "This guy is min maxed for combat and worthless for anything else" Non force user against some generic newbie force user. Combat Munchkin example gets to go first, and unloads Dong Extension Gun into Target Practice Jedi who doesn't even have their lightsaber out. "See? you CAN beat a force user in a fight!"  Amusingly, that's not why I just gave up mid chargen in THAT place. "Can my mechanic have a ship?" "It depends, what kind?" "I want refitted SMALL troops dropship, so It's not a completely helpless target that can't take a hit. You know one that would carry a small squad but refurbished for living conditions and storage space for his workshop instead of commandos crammed in like Sardines." *thinking along the lines of Big Skyranger/Aliens Dropship/Starcraft Dropship. Or countless 10-40 passenger capacity troop transports/dropships he skimmed on wookiepedia* "I knew it! You're trying to build a Jedi Killer!"  Admin screams across pub channels about my wanting a doom ship. In particular, this ship. Which they apparently had convinced themselves was what I meant. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/AA-9_Coruscant_freighter Because when somebody asks for a retrofitted troop transport for their freelance mechanic living hand to mouth, of COURSE they are talking about a 30,000 troops capacity monstrosity the likes of which you pretty much need to go into star destroyer territory to have a bigger passenger list. Fanboy Friend pointed out how pants on head crazy that assumption was, but still had to vouch for me in "He's not an insane power gamer who thinks you are incredibly gullible, Jesus" assurance. But something that spectacularly paranoid and dumb as a fly off the handle result in chargen, means even my morbid curiosity didn't want to find out how things would go in game. Fake Edit: Whenever I bring up most of my vauge rambling stories to a long time internet pal with better luck in his gaming, he's always wondering "Where do you even find these people?" Sometimes I reply "It's not my fault this time, I was following Friend X's suggestion." EDIT: vvv Yeah, I know that you CAN balance both types of characters in one game (even if it's just easier to have all or nothing). But even the best mechanics in the world are no match for the power of idiots running the show. Though in whatever thing they were using in that case, their reasoning given was "Force users tend to spend most of their skill points on force powers. So non force users can have more normal skills! " Force users were also special permission required, though that didn't come into play because I left before even finishing chargen, which was before their game even got off the ground. So it was just me working on a normal, and staff making force users even at that point.
Section Z fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Oct 27, 2012 |
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Oct 27, 2012 02:12
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Section Z posted:I do recall one of the more sad justifications people gave for "Non force users are just as good as force users!" Well, I'd assume that, in a role-playing game, you'd want there to be at least some semblance of balance between non-Force users and Force users. Unless you're going the Ars Magica route and just having everyone be Force users. That doesn't make that particular example any less stupid, but...
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Oct 27, 2012 02:27
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as far as Force users go, in our game there's a fairly low emphasis on the Force; for the longest time our GM allowed no Force users and only allowed a single character to be Force-sensitive at all, without letting him grab powers. That fell by the wayside during the time where I was out of game, but I've never felt that my non-Force-sensitive PC was at a real disadvantage for one simple reason: The Force kicks rear end at letting you fight the Big Bad and is pretty handy when you're fighting A Horde Of Smaller Bads... and not nearly as impressive anywhere else. Now, if all you're doing is killing poo poo, then yeah, the Force user is going to rock house... but in this game we're doing poo poo like 'reprogram the master boot sequence for the droid fleet central computer so the droids all see me as their commanding officer now' and 'lead a massive fleet engagement' and 'oversee the ground campaign for Coruscant, which becomes impossible if I'm wading in to fight with my own two hands' and 'use Disguise to make this planetary defense officer think I'm the Grand Moff in charge of the operation and put his clearly incompetent rear end in charge of all ground defense, neatly wrecking the Imperials' morale and command structures in one fell swoop' and 'give an inspirational speech to the troops so they fight better.' Would the Force help with that stuff? Arguably, yes, if you take the right powers and feats and such... but not as much as you might think. And the way d20 SW works - I can't speak to Saga, I haven't played it - makes it so that if you're building a Force User who's really good at any of that stuff, you're kinda gimped when it comes to combat (whereas my Computer Use-focused PC has two levels in Soldier, the Powered Armor Proficiency feat, ungodly amounts of Craft (Armor), and what amounts to a Battletech Elemental suit, so he can hold his own juuuuuust fine when he has to). Force-users are built to be really good at a really small number of things, is the thing. Besides, building a Jedi-killer is easy. It's called a buckshot. Lightsabers can't parry area-of-effect attacks. Now, none of this will stop a bunch of truly demented fanboys from making their Jedi be SUPAH AWESOMEZ AND YOU WILL NEVER BE AS GREAT AS THEY ARE HAH HAH gently caress YOUUUUUUUUU but those people are terrible, and a person's terribleness is not usually the fault of a setting or a system. 
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Oct 27, 2012 05:32
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Besides, building a Jedi-killer is easy. It's called a buckshot. Lightsabers can't parry area-of-effect attacks. Force push
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Oct 27, 2012 13:16
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Volmarias posted:Force push From what little I know affects physical matter, not blaster bolts. But I'm not particularly well versed in Star Wars so I could easily be wrong there.
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Oct 27, 2012 16:04
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| # ? May 15, 2024 00:46 |
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Is the death star self sufficient? Because I'd imagine that thing would also consume a lot of supplies and is harder to hide.
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Oct 27, 2012 17:58
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