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Yeah the whole thing would be better just played as a straight forward prank without the "AND NOW SLEEP" but even then it's still fake as hell. I still find it entertaining in how much effort was put into pretending they were pranking this guy and imagining how I would react if I wasn't a paid actor, surrounded by that level of deception. Still, we can hope that it ends J Walter Weatherman style with Derren Brown holding a fake arm saying "and THAT'S why you should always appreciate your mother".
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Oct 27, 2012 14:05
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Rarity posted:Apocalypse is very cool, I love the level of detail that goes into Derren Brown's tricks. I have to admit being skeptical, but it does make sense he wouldn't have someone there was wasn't susceptible to suggestion. I did enjoy a show he did a while back where he managed to convince people that he was various types of religious conmen. I'd like to see one of his live shows; I either find out about them too late, or my schedule doesn't work out. Or does it...  Ergh, submit isn't preview, sorry -- while watching the show last night, I said to my partner, 'If this guy's seen 28 Days Later, surely he might twig that someone's taking the piss,' and as it happens, my partner hasn't seen 28 Days Later. If I found out someone was doing something like that to me to teach me courage or appreciation or whatever, I'd probably be more cross and upset than 'Golly, thanks for the zombie intervention!' Ms Boods fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Oct 27, 2012 |
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Oct 27, 2012 14:06
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This is part of something I'd written for somewhere else about Derren:quote:His work is done by tricking the audience, just like every other magician there ever was - he even openly tells you this at the beginning of the show. Somehow, many people can't accept this and I think it's because he uses human props. If a regular magician said "I’m going to use psychology, magic, misdirection, sleight-of-hand and whatever else" and then started doing a trick with swords, no-one would ever think that he was talking about using psychology and misdirection on the swords. Because he has human props, people think, "All that stuff he said directly to me through the camera about what he's going to do to me - he must have talking about those other people". That's my favourite trick of his.
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Oct 27, 2012 15:00
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Frankie Boyle has donated his libel winnings to Reprieve, the prisoner legal rights charity. Not your usual celebrity feel good charity. Good for him. (Still think he's a cretin though)
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Oct 27, 2012 15:58
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I would like to think that he's doing it for moral reasons, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was just trolling.
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Oct 27, 2012 16:03
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Derren Brown's Apocalypse was pretty good fun, but I think those of us following his work know how it goes these days. He starts off with a large amount of prospective volunteers (an already agreeable bunch of 8000 people eager to work with their hero) and whittles them down to the most agreeable of the bunch. Derren certainly has a "type" - typically some kind of lovely, artsy, well-built man in his early twenties. The chap selected this time is even an actor! No doubt in the screening process he meets the cream of the crop and gets to do some pre-show work, some "hypnosis", letting them know that if they are selected they will be in perfect safety, sign this release form, etc. and then they are subsequently told they are rejected. The current show is really just unbelievable. I think the real trick is on the viewers, he's convinced a struggling actor to go along with playing a part. The effect follows numerous tropes and I really don't think our star is an idiot- he actually knew that 2012 wasn't the end of the world for the Mayans. I don't think I've ever heard anyone else say that on TV. There was a moment after he woke up where he sort of just stood there for 20 seconds looking paniced- personally I think it was realisation on his part (partly "Oh god, Derren's probably been filming me in my pants watching Babestation!"). The acting from the two others was pretty terrible, the girl was awful, and the man, while he played the part of the smart Scot well, was too much like a video game NPC, telling him to go look at the wall before they could advance the plot. I'll still watch next week but I won't stay home from the pub to do so 
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Oct 27, 2012 16:45
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If you google the man in Apocalypse, you can turn up social media accounts, most of which are locked down for obvious reasons, but one of them clearly has a photo of him and lists him as having run two marathons. So either he is a plant (extremely likely, since there's no way they would be allowed to do this to someone without informed consent or drive ambulances full-tilt at unpredictable non-actors) or not as much of a loser as they say he is. edit: or it's a fake account but why? He just didn't seem to react like a real person would at all. The bit where he meets the girl sounded like dreadful acting on both parts, and the lack of swearing, instant 'correct' behaviour like saying "Come with me" yet the lack of reactions that would be obvious to anyone who had ever seen a film (stop the girl tapping on the glass at the zombie, take water and food from the hospital) just all made me think he was a poor actor. Basically, rubbish!
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Oct 27, 2012 16:54
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People, you are arguing about something that doesn't exist. If anyone could hypnotize people why do crappy TV shows and not control the freaking world. Or live in a perpetual supermodel orgy in between bouts of walking into shops and walking out with half the stock and not spending a penny. Governments would be loving using it. It's always actors and set up. The distraction showmanship is the real act. Edit: VVV Ah, I meant the concept of being hypnotized. The show, sure go ahead. Didn't mean to imply that doh. happyhippy fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Oct 27, 2012 |
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Oct 27, 2012 17:42
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I never think that's a fair way of looking at it, because it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation: if he had been acting the way you feel is proper, then people say "Look at that, he's acting exactly how you'd expect, it's clearly fake!" yet when he doesn't they go "Look at that, what terrible acting, you'd never behave like that if it were real... it's clearly fake!"... edit: happyhippy, we are discussing the show, just like you are, and even coming to the same conclusions! You don't need to tell us to stop arguing 
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Oct 27, 2012 17:44
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quote:there's no way they would be allowed to [...] drive ambulances full-tilt at unpredictable non-actors I think maybe that's one of the reasons Apocalypse, and some of his other stunts as well, falls flat. It's edited together in a frantic, fast-paced way to make it feel like a movie. It needs to heavily compress a long period of time while still hitting all the character beats that are integral to the idea of the show being about this dude-whos-kind-of-a-dick developing his appreciation of the value of his life, through the lens of a really out-of-place Wizard of Oz reference. quote:instant 'correct' behaviour like saying "Come with me" I'm a big Brown fan and I'll admit that I give him far more leeway than is probably reasonable, but even if we assume that the participants are genuine, if the scale of the stunt requires that it be shown in a way that feels fake then why f'in bother?
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Oct 27, 2012 17:50
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happyhippy posted:People, you are arguing about something that doesn't exist. I've been hypnotised during therapy sessions. Yes, it does require my willingness to participate but it's a lot more than me just sitting still and playing along.
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Oct 27, 2012 18:02
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Don't be stupid, you're a professional actor and on your therapist's payroll.
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Oct 27, 2012 19:31
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It's kind of underselling hypnotism to say it's just people playing along, since it does have therapeutic uses etc, but it's basically true. Certainly much truer than saying it's all done with stooges.
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Oct 27, 2012 19:49
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FreakyZoid posted:Don't be stupid, you're a professional actor and on your therapist's payroll. drat sneaky therapist paying me money with me knowing! 
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Oct 27, 2012 20:19
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Christ, this Derren Brown thing is bizarre for me. The victim in it? Hes the brother of a girl that was in my year at school. The road outside their house is where my mum used to pick me up from school.
Gorn Myson fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Oct 27, 2012 |
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Oct 27, 2012 22:11
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The best hypnotist story is Jim Rose's (from the extreme circus thing) trick. "Jim Rose says that he once told a subject to play along and he would give him fifty dollars. The guy was great. At the wake-up he said: For the rest of your life you will believe that Jim Rose owes you fifty dollars."
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Oct 27, 2012 22:35
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I like that recently we were talking about QI, and some of the criticisms were about how it's low-brow humour and folk like Jonny Vegas. Well, this episode had Jonny Vegas and Ross Noble, and the first half was all about death and dinosaur poo poo, and it was hilarious.
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Oct 27, 2012 23:57
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The social fiction of hypnotism (as shown on stage) has no relation to hypnotism as it actually exists (as practised in a therapeutic environment). Hypnotism is basically great for switching off cognitive defences and getting people to bring unconscious thoughts to the surface, when done right, and it can be used to temporarily implant subconscious thoughts that modify particular behaviours. As far as I know, however, hypnotism can't compel someone to act in a way they're intrinsically opposed to, and it can't work on an unwilling subject. The most it can do is modify behaviour, which for already suggestible people can mean "Do as the hypnotist tells you," but that's because they're predisposed to do so. Regardless, it doesn't work on stages the way it's frequently shown on TV: that's much more the remit of the built-in desire for people to conform to social expectations. Remember the Darren Brown special where he pretended to be a Baptist Faith Healer, and push people over with the power of the Holy Spirit? He didn't hypnotise them, but they did what he told them. That's pretty much identical to stage hypnosis as it's shown, except the people participating in stage hypnosis are pre-selected for their suggestibility and willingness to please. I think everyone can agree that he's much cooler when he's doing deconstructions of other magician's techniques or performing traditional magic tricks of his own. The pop psychology hypnotism bullshit isn't very good. Etherwind fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Oct 28, 2012 |
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Oct 28, 2012 00:12
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The problem is is that ever since he predicted the lottery numbers and then spent an hour talking bullshit about how he used "the wisdom of the crowd" when it was obviously just tv trickery, it's been far too clear that most of what he tells the auidence is lies. Because you can't trust ANYTHING he shows us anymore as being real, it stops being impressive. I mean, remember in his earliest stuff, where he gets the winnings from the wrong betting ticket? Watching that back then you really think, wow, how did he do that. Now you know he uses things like camera tricks who's to say he did use them back then. Now, I'm not saying that it WAS done using stooges, but it would be the easiest way to do it, and now the suspicion is there even that little trick is something I wouldn't trust anymore. It reminds me of David Blaine levitating. That was really cool and impressive until it was revealed he just edited in a clip of a crane lifting him up into some reaction shots. Once you know that, it undercuts all his other tricks because it's not something he can just do to anyone just out on the street (which was a big part of the appeal of both Blaine and Brown). Or maybe that's just me? Howards Bellend fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Oct 28, 2012 |
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Oct 28, 2012 00:43
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Howards Bellend posted:Or maybe that's just me?
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Oct 28, 2012 02:20
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I love Derren Brown's stuff. Saw him live last year on his Svengali show, and though some of the tricks left me amazed, some of them were a little predictable, particularly for those of us that've seen a fair bit of him. I've just watched the Apocalypse thing on 4OD. I thought the lad at the centre of it was genuine at first, but on the odd occasion he looks like he's acting (spoilered just in case) when he meets the young girl for the first time inside the hospital, and when they're at the 'wonderwall', particularly. Might just be me, that. I couldn't help it, but when Derren put him to sleep on the bus, just after all the explosions, by touching his shoulder and saying 'sleep' I laughed out loud. I have no idea how that could possibly work. Still, I enjoyed it. It was well produced, it had me excited and fascinated, and I look forward to the second one.
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Oct 28, 2012 02:32
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Hoops posted:That feels like a product of going out of your way to find out how the tricks work though. If you search out the answers for how a trick works, then you see it's not that impressive and it ceases to be that impressive. When was it revealed that David Blaine uses a crane shot for his levitation stuff, I'd never heard that, it wasn't like it was announced on the news. If you're going to seek out the answers to the secrets, you'll eventually end up spoiling it for yourself when it isn't as interesting anymore. With the David Blaine stuff then I'd probably agree with you, but I think he's right about Derren Brown. When he did the lottery stunt it was pretty clear that it was some kind of camera/TV trickery, not least because of the thousands of people going on about it at the time. The fact that he then dressed it all up with a load of nonsense and bullshit made him seem fake and insincere, perhaps for the first time, and it could be argued that once he did that it was difficult to go back. I don't think you had to seek out the answers for this because his explanation was so obviously untrue. for what it's worth, I like to believe in as much of it as I can because he's done enough amazing stuff live, and on tons of celebrities, to convince me that he doesn't need actors to commit acts of wizardry
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Oct 28, 2012 02:52
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People apply to be on derren browns stuff and then are randomly chosen to do psychological testing and things like that. Because he has people apply it means you immediately get people more open to suggestability (the act of applying indicates they are confident and believe in his abilities). This also leads to no chance of being sued because the people consent beforehand I've seen him live and accidentally discovered how he does one of his tricks when picking up a magic book written by one of his friends that he reccomended on twitter. He did a tri k where he got a nurse out of the audience to take his pulse by banging on a mic each time she felt the beat of his pulse. He then put his head in a bag and after much theatrics his pulse slowed until it was almost dead, with the nurse saying if felt incredibly faint as well. The book revealed the trick to slowing and almost stopping your pulse is have half a squash ball in your arm pit, and squeeze it under your arm. If positioned correctly it will slow blood flow to the arm and slow or almost stop your pulse That trick to me shows the theatrics he uses, I'm sure he's done it in one of his tv shows too
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Oct 28, 2012 10:35
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Gorn Myson posted:Christ, this Derren Brown thing is bizarre for me. The victim in it? Hes the brother of a girl that was in my year at school. The road outside their house is where my mum used to pick me up from school.
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Oct 28, 2012 10:44
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Paperhouse posted:With the David Blaine stuff then I'd probably agree with you, but I think he's right about Derren Brown. When he did the lottery stunt it was pretty clear that it was some kind of camera/TV trickery, not least because of the thousands of people going on about it at the time. The fact that he then dressed it all up with a load of nonsense and bullshit made him seem fake and insincere, perhaps for the first time, and it could be argued that once he did that it was difficult to go back. I don't think you had to seek out the answers for this because his explanation was so obviously untrue. There was a pretty good blog post from a guy who was in the audience that night talking about part of the episode that wasn't shown to anyone but the studio audience. The gist is Brown filmed a stunt before hand where he revealed the numbers (He was in an open top bus in London) and that's how he revealed the numbers to the audience. Except that wasn't what actually went out and it seems that for whatever reason C4 put the halt on it. Probably because their legal team said "You can't do this". Don't forget that after that Brown was being called by Politicians to explain himself and had a lot of heat on him. The filming around London thing was actually true. There were pictures of him filming but as far as I know it wasn't shown. Could just be a dude making things up but it didn't read that way.
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Oct 28, 2012 10:47
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I see Misfits returns for a new series tonight.
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Oct 28, 2012 10:56
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Pablo Bluth posted:I see Misfits returns for a new series tonight. Well that sprang out of nowhere.Hope the new characters are up to scratch, why the hell did Kelly have to go and get herself arrested.
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Oct 28, 2012 11:01
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DrVenkman posted:Except that wasn't what actually went out and it seems that for whatever reason C4 put the halt on it. Probably because their legal team said "You can't do this". Don't forget that after that Brown was being called by Politicians to explain himself and had a lot of heat on him. Uh, you're not really buying this? Unless someone is accusing him of actually fixing the lottery that week....
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Oct 28, 2012 11:06
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jfjnpxmy posted:Is anyone else watching Threesome on Comedy Central? I keep watching it, and I don't know if I find it funny because it's funny or if it's just because Amy Huberman has, like, the best face in the world. We're loving Threesome, but it is a kind of guilty pleasure. You're right about Amy though!
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Oct 28, 2012 11:07
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Lee Mack's hosting Never Mind the Buzzcocks was brilliant. Noel Fielding wasn't there either, so that's an additional bonus.
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Oct 28, 2012 11:59
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Here's an article written by Richard Osman about lovely gameshows, and another about the 10th anniversary of HIGNFY's guest hosts
lets go swimming fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Oct 28, 2012 |
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Oct 28, 2012 17:24
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hermand posted:Uh, you're not really buying this? Unless someone is accusing him of actually fixing the lottery that week.... No but I think there was a more impressive trick that what people got (At least the reveal was more impressive, I dare say the nuts and bolts of the trick were just the same) but, for whatever reason, C4 decided against it. Brown has talked about the legal storm he came under for both that show and the Russian Roulette one so it's not hard to presume that C4's lawyers stepped in and said "Nope, can't do this."
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Oct 28, 2012 18:34
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toanoradian posted:Lee Mack's hosting Never Mind the Buzzcocks was brilliant. Noel Fielding wasn't there either, so that's an additional bonus. It's a shame he was replaced by Professor Green though, I find him utterly insufferable. But yeah, Lee Mack was on top form, he's one of the most quick witted comedians out there at the moment.
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Oct 28, 2012 20:00
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Distinct lack of Raise The Roof in that article.
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Oct 28, 2012 20:39
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onoflalks posted:Here's an article written by Richard Osman about lovely gameshows, and another about the 10th anniversary of HIGNFY's guest hosts There's a great post in the comments there. quote:Touch the Truck was a British Channel 5 endurance gameshow which aired in 2001.
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Oct 28, 2012 21:30
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hermand posted:Uh, you're not really buying this? Unless someone is accusing him of actually fixing the lottery that week.... The footage exists and was presumably supposed to be in the reveal (they used snowflakes in the show and the trailer). The actual method was almost certainly just camera trickery though.
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Oct 28, 2012 21:56
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blunt posted:The footage exists and was presumably supposed to be in the reveal (they used snowflakes in the show and the trailer). Yes, but the one thing we know is that he most definitely did not legitimately predict the lottery results prior to them happening so everything else just comes down to presentation. I don't doubt he filmed some other stuff, but to imply a cover up or legal wrangling is either silly or accuses a lot of people of some very serious offences.
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Oct 28, 2012 22:31
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pb468 fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Oct 30, 2012 |
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Oct 28, 2012 23:08
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It isn't? I'm sure I've listened to it this week and I sure as hell didn't catch it live. fake edit - Heh, I just looked and it's not available. Pretty sure I listened to it late Friday night, so it must have been pulled since then. Legal doohickery may be occurring. Anyway, the friday comedy podcast still exists: http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/fricomedy/fricomedy_20121026-1900b.mp3 Real edit - If that disappears, 4 extra should do the News Quiz Extra on Monday night
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Oct 28, 2012 23:16
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hermand posted:Yes, but the one thing we know is that he most definitely did not legitimately predict the lottery results prior to them happening so everything else just comes down to presentation. I don't doubt he filmed some other stuff, but to imply a cover up or legal wrangling is either silly or accuses a lot of people of some very serious offences. Even if there was no actual manipulation of the results (which we all know there can't have been) I can see why the lottery wouldn't want him to broadcast footage of him predicting the results before the draw. Even if it wasn't broadcast until afterwards it would still send out a bad message about whether or not its genuinely random. And imagine if by some trillion to one chance he did predict them beforehand, there'd be chaos. I can understand them not wanting to even have to think about that.
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Oct 29, 2012 01:27
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