|
I usually spring the points to give my lords a power axe or fist in addition to their main weapon, just in case something with a 2+ walks up on him. So, usually it's Murder Sword+Power Axe
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 15:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 07:03 |
|
|
Khorne Flakes posted:
Its for if you want to bust terminators on the cheap, but aren't worried about vehicles or monstrous creatures. A khorne lord with furious charge is getting 6 strength on the charge, enough to wound on 2+ and instant death 3 toughness - DA, IG etc
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 15:51
|
|
|
Crowleraptor posted:Its for if you want to bust terminators on the cheap, but aren't worried about vehicles or monstrous creatures. A khorne lord with furious charge is getting 6 strength on the charge, enough to wound on 2+ and instant death 3 toughness - DA, IG etc But it is still unwieldy. So you can be S6 with an Axe or S8 with a Fist at I1. It may be a 5-10 point difference, but why wouldn't you take the fist over the axe every time?
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 15:57
|
|
|
Khorne Flakes posted:But it is still unwieldy. So you can be S6 with an Axe or S8 with a Fist at I1. It may be a 5-10 point difference, but why wouldn't you take the fist over the axe every time? The Daemon Weapon axe is not unwieldly however.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 16:12
|
|
|
frest posted:The Daemon Weapon axe is not unwieldly however. Right, but I am seeing lists with unmarked or Nurgle lords taking a bike and a Power Axe. Whats the point? Just pay like 5 more points for a fist if you really want to go last.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 16:14
|
|
|
Aren't power fists specialty weapons? I don't have the rulebook in front of me but that would be a plus for the axe if it is the case.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 16:21
|
|
|
Okay. Here we go. This is the build I've cobbled together for my Thousand Sons army, tentatively named the Cabal of the Emerald Sun: HQ (227pts) Serqet Thesh - Sorcerer (227pts) Champion of Chaos, Independent Character, Psyker 2x Additional Mastery Level (50pts), Gift of mutation (10pts), Mark of Tzeentch (15pts), Sigil of corruption (25pts), Spell familiar (15pts), Veterans of the Long War (5pts) Terminator Armour (47pts) Combi-flamer/-melta/-plasma (7pts) Force Weapon Elites (359pts) Chaos Terminators (239pts) Deep Strike Mark of Tzeentch (25pts), Reaper Autocannon (25pts) Terminator (36pts) Combi-melta, -flamer, -plasma (5pts), Power weapon Terminator (36pts) Combi-melta, -flamer, -plasma (5pts), Power weapon Terminator (36pts) Combi-melta, -flamer, -plasma (5pts), Power weapon Terminator (31pts) Combi-bolter, Power weapon Terminator Champion (50pts) Combi-flamer, -melta, or plasma (7pts), Gift of Mutation (10pts), Power Weapon Helbrute (120pts) Crazed Plasma cannon (10pts), Power scourge (10pts) Troops (825pts) Thousand Sons (Troops) (275pts) Fearless, Mark of Tzeentch, Slow and Purposeful, Veterans of the Long War 9x Thousand Son (207pts) Aspiring Sorcerer (68pts) Gift of Mutation (10pts) Thousand Sons (Troops) (275pts) Fearless, Mark of Tzeentch, Slow and Purposeful, Veterans of the Long War 9x Thousand Son (207pts) Aspiring Sorcerer (68pts) Gift of Mutation (10pts) Thousand Sons (Troops) (275pts) Fearless, Mark of Tzeentch, Slow and Purposeful, Veterans of the Long War 9x Thousand Son (207pts) Aspiring Sorcerer (68pts) Gift of Mutation (10pts) Fast Attack (378pts) Chaos Spawn (126pts) Fear, Fearless, Mutated Beyond Reason, Rage, Random Attacks, Very Bulky Mark of Tzeentch (36pts), 3x Spawn (90pts) Chaos Spawn (126pts) Fear, Fearless, Mutated Beyond Reason, Rage, Random Attacks, Very Bulky Mark of Tzeentch (36pts), 3x Spawn (90pts) Chaos Spawn (126pts) Fear, Fearless, Mutated Beyond Reason, Rage, Random Attacks, Very Bulky Mark of Tzeentch (36pts), 3x Spawn (90pts) Heavy Support (270pts) Chaos Predator (135pts) Daemonic possession (15pts), Heavy Bolters (20pts), Twin-Linked Lascannon (25pts) Chaos Predator (135pts) Daemonic possession (15pts), Heavy Bolters (20pts), Twin-Linked Lascannon (25pts) Total cost: 1990 points. There's a variant list where the Predators are exchanged for a Land Raider (because a friend of mine has a Land Raider that lacked the rear door in the kit... which he's graciously giving to me), but other than that, I think this should be a pretty solid force to bring to the table. Tell me why I'm wrong. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 16:30
|
|
|
Khorne Flakes posted:Right, but I am seeing lists with unmarked or Nurgle lords taking a bike and a Power Axe. Whats the point? Just pay like 5 more points for a fist if you really want to go last. Don't you get an extra attack from a Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon vs a Power Fist where you don't? It's unwieldy so you strike at I1, but it's not a specialty weapon or 2-handed, so you get a bonus attack w/ a pistol or 2nd CCW. Could be wrong on this though...
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 16:47
|
|
|
WhiteWolf123 posted:Don't you get an extra attack from a Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon vs a Power Fist where you don't? Whether this is correct or not, I find S8 2 attacks more valuable than S6 3 attacks at I1. S8 is such an important number in 40k, it takes care of tanks, wounds virtually everything on a 2+, and instant kills most characters.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 16:55
|
|
|
Khorne Flakes posted:Nope, but I rolled pretty much all the +1 stats and kept maxing out the D3 on Iron Arm in Biomancy. That game was pretty much my Sorcerer vs 1000 points of Tau, and the Sorcerer won. I've twice gotten really lucky and rolled shrouded before the game on a lord and champion in a unit of Khorne bikers. Why Yes, Getting a 2+ cover save while I turbo boost into your deployment zone tun 1 is useful. Also, Power Axes are ap 2 and +2 strength, cheaper than power fists and nearly as good.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 17:29
|
|
|
Carcer posted:I've twice gotten really lucky and rolled shrouded before the game on a lord and champion in a unit of Khorne bikers. Why Yes, Getting a 2+ cover save while I turbo boost into your deployment zone tun 1 is useful. Axes are ap2 +1 str. The reasons to take an axe are that they're cheaper, and you get the bonus attack. If you're dual-wielding a murder sword and power axe, each weapon gets a bonus attack as opposed to each not getting one if you wield the sword and a fist. I'm using the lightning claw/chainfist combo on my termie lord, because I do think the fist is probably better, but if you're trying to keep costs down that's one place you can cut. For example, if my squad has 2 melta guns and is unlikely to get into CC I could throw an axe in to scare termies a little bit and save 10 points, but I usually just buy the fist. A little math. Assume 2 base attacks, no charge bonus on either side. 3 str 5 ap2 attacks vs. 2 str 8 ap 2 attacks. The target will be a basic terminator, 2+/5++, so WS4 vs WS4. The axe wielder gets 3 attacks, of which 1.5 should hit on average. Str 5 vs. T4 means 2/3 of those wound, so 1 wound is produced. The 5++ means that you should on average produce 2/3 of a wound with the axe. The fist wielder gets 2 attacks, of which 1 should hit on average. Str 8 vs. T4, means 2+ wounds, so 5/6 wounds are caused, and after the 5++ you get a little over half a wound per round of combat. If you factor in a bonus attack from charging the axe and the fist are close to even (the axe is very slightly better still) in wounds caused, although the fist would ID T3 and T4 while the axe wouldn't. humannature fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Oct 29, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 17:40
|
|
|
Disregarding the explicit criticism of chaos lords built that way, a lot of units come with the option for "power weapons" limited only by modeling, and when comparing the 3 options the axe is definitely a contender.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 17:44
|
|
|
I just like force axes on Nurgle Sorcerers I don't think I would bother with one otherwise because a fist is 10 points more with 1 less attack that crushes most things. Only reason I take force axes is they just give me a better chance at getting a single wound so I can ID whatever I'm hitting plus the fact the people I play against run a lot of 2+ armor guys.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 18:07
|
|
|
frest posted:Disregarding the explicit criticism of chaos lords built that way, a lot of units come with the option for "power weapons" limited only by modeling, and when comparing the 3 options the axe is definitely a contender. Four options... Don't forget the power lance
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 18:10
|
|
|
Cataphract posted:Four options... Don't forget the power lance A friend of mine had a very short-lived 6E codex:SM biker army (before he destroyed them all trying to strip them), and modeled his entire army with lances on the sergeants. It was super thematically cool, and just so terrible on the table. I think he'd have been better off taking nothing but meltabombs.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 18:29
|
|
|
Khorne Flakes posted:Whether this is correct or not, I find S8 2 attacks more valuable than S6 3 attacks at I1. S8 is such an important number in 40k, it takes care of tanks, wounds virtually everything on a 2+, and instant kills most characters. I don't disagree. I'm just pointing out that that's why people opt to use the Axe. You get more attacks for less points and still have AP2. If you have a ton of MEQ, high-toughness and armor in your meta, the S8 can be really important. But if you face a lot of T3, saving the points and getting an additional attack can be beneficial.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 19:56
|
|
|
Khorne Flakes posted:Right, but I am seeing lists with unmarked or Nurgle lords taking a bike and a Power Axe. Whats the point? Just pay like 5 more points for a fist if you really want to go last. 10 points, which is the cost of Gift of Chaos. In that sense, it's worth it if your squeezing for points because Chaos Boon rolls are pretty fun.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 21:12
|
|
|
What are considered solid eldar units? I like Dire Avengers and Fire dragons but am unsure of what else to get. How are warp spiders?
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 22:00
|
|
|
BadLlama posted:What are considered solid eldar units? I like Dire Avengers and Fire dragons but am unsure of what else to get. How are warp spiders? Good, but expensive, and can be tough to get into range.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 22:23
|
|
|
BadLlama posted:What are considered solid eldar units? I like Dire Avengers and Fire dragons but am unsure of what else to get. How are warp spiders? Dual scatter laser War Walkers, Wave Serpents, 5 man Fire Dragon squads, Warlocks with a doom/fortune-seer, Fire-prisms. I hear good things about Wraith Guard and Wraith Lords, they were very solid when in pewter, but now they are finecast and you can actually afford them I am not seeing them flood into Eldar lists and replace the above. The Scatter-Walkers are the best choice in the codex. Horrible amounts of shooting.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 22:28
|
|
|
A Power Axe wielding Chaos Lord averages 2.22 wounds against MEQ on the charge. So does a Power Fist using Lord. Once the charge bonus is gone, however, the Axe Lord does 1.77 wounds per round while a Fist Lord only does 1.66 wounds. Power Axe is more wounds for a fraction of the cost. Sure, S8 is useful for ID and MCs and whatnot, but sometimes you just want a cheap, efficient HQ and not some CC monster.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 22:29
|
|
|
Raphus C posted:Dual scatter laser War Walkers, Wave Serpents, 5 man Fire Dragon squads, Warlocks with a doom/fortune-seer, Fire-prisms. I have two pewter War-Walkers and a Pewter Wraithlord. I can't stand looking at them : / wish there was a trade in program at GWs. I recently got two wave serpents and have a Falcon I want to convert to a wave serpent as well. I think I can get war walkers for a good price to replace my old ugly as hell ones. Thanks! VV Id just take some guard allies and use a basilisk or something over the Eldar pieces still. BadLlama fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Oct 29, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 22:36
|
|
|
How are Eldar support weapon platforms now? The changes to artillery make them seem a lot more usable on the face of it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 22:40
|
|
|
BadLlama posted:What are considered solid eldar units? I like Dire Avengers and Fire dragons but am unsure of what else to get. How are warp spiders? I would say scorpions are pretty decent; better than banshees in most cases now. I wonder if Dark Reapers are a little better in this edition... I like them in general, and the exarch manning a quad gun is pretty decent AA. War walkers are still pretty decent, though they tend to fall apart if you don't have a bigger threat in the enemies face. If you go forgeworld the warp hunters are the best thing ever. Seriously.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 22:53
|
|
|
LordAba posted:I would say scorpions are pretty decent; better than banshees in most cases now. I wonder if Dark Reapers are a little better in this edition... I like them in general, and the exarch manning a quad gun is pretty decent AA. War walkers are still pretty decent, though they tend to fall apart if you don't have a bigger threat in the enemies face. I actually ran Reapers in 3/4th with a farseer to baby sit them with guide and it worked well. Might even work better now. I do have 9 old Striking Scorpions so I'll consider giving them a go next game. And I actually just looked at the warp hunter that model looks very very nice.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 22:59
|
|
|
If you move, can you choose to snapfire salvo weapons to full range and only hit on 6's?
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 23:00
|
|
|
No. That is a special provision of the Heavy type.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 23:05
|
|
|
How about those Assault X / Heavy Y weapons like Splinter Cannons?
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2012 23:06
|
|
|
AgentF posted:How about those Assault X / Heavy Y weapons like Splinter Cannons? It is specified in the faqs that you cannot choose to snapfire if you don't have to. So if you move it has to be the assault version. If you are forced to snapfire anyways (pinning/stunned vehicle I believe causes it) you can use any profile.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2012 01:53
|
|
|
BadLlama posted:What are considered solid eldar units? I like Dire Avengers and Fire dragons but am unsure of what else to get. How are warp spiders? Harlequins, at least geared up squads of them, are pretty good in 6E.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2012 02:38
|
|
|
PeterWeller posted:Harlequins, at least geared up squads of them, are pretty good in 6E. Warning: this man loving loves Harlequins. Objectivity-free zone.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2012 02:56
|
|
|
Wraithguard are good as well, but they need something to babysit them from assaults. They basically kill any non-flyer vehicle in one shooting phase, and are death to non-horde infantry, but with 1 attack base and no power weapons they die in assaults to powerfists. Basilisks are also no good.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2012 03:02
|
|
|
So does this break 6th edition?code:
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2012 04:53
|
|
|
Personally i picture my self leading a charge of guardsmen. Out of ammo charging tackling chaos space marines ripping off their helmets and stabbing them in the eye we break through the CSM lines sweaty and bloodied we didnt take many casualties for guardsmen standing across from us is khorne himself i scream For the Emporers Memory and charge knife in hand followed by about a hundred fifty guardsmen i stab out one of khornes eyes before dying
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2012 05:08
|
|
|
... Christ, that's a lot of troops.  I'd utterly forgotten how terrifyingly many men the IG could field when going mechanized infantry and skipping the big guns. So expensive to buy, though, and the painting would take forever.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2012 05:10
|
|
|
Loaf32 posted:Personally i picture my self leading a charge of guardsmen. Out of ammo charging tackling chaos space marines ripping off their helmets and stabbing them in the eye we break through the CSM lines sweaty and bloodied we didnt take many casualties for guardsmen standing across from us is khorne himself i scream For the Emporers Memory and charge knife in hand followed by about a hundred fifty guardsmen i stab out one of khornes eyes before dying Dakka? Looking at getting a Heldrake, trouble is my whole army is really pale pink and I don't see that scheme working on the drake. Not sure whether to go for something complementary or whether there's a black and pink scheme that I could shoehorn onto it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2012 05:13
|
|
|
Baruch Obamawitz posted:So does this break 6th edition? That's a pretty standard (also see:boring) mechvet list, I'd lose the all extra armor though since it's 15 points for a pretty negligible benefit.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2012 05:24
|
|
|
ghetto wormhole posted:That's a pretty standard (also see:boring) mechvet list, I'd lose the all extra armor though since it's 15 points for a pretty negligible benefit. 15 points that could be used to upgrade the squad inside from melta guns to plasma guns.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2012 06:33
|
|
|
Anyone have a good tutorial for painting Dark Angels? A friend just picked up a small army and wants to get them painted by Thanksgiving.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2012 07:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 07:03 |
|
|
Anyone have a good tutorial for painting Dark Angels? A friend just picked up a small army and wants to get them painted by Thanksgiving.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2012 07:25
|
|