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I'm kind of alarmed that no one has considered the likelihood that Disney will bank on the nostalgia factor and finally release a digitally remastered, but otherwise un-hosed-with original trilogy. I mean, how could they not?
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Oct 31, 2012 22:46
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^ That's what many of my friends and I are hoping for and almost expecting, actually.SirPhoebos posted:Oh god, now I've just been reminded of that masturbation scene in the holiday special! 
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Oct 31, 2012 22:47
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SirPhoebos posted:Oh god, now I've just been reminded of that masturbation scene in the holiday special! I guess you can say he hand solo'd!
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Oct 31, 2012 22:48
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api call girl posted:Can you imagine a full season of a TV show of the Wraiths gone pirate? We need a Starfighters of Adumar movie.
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Nov 1, 2012 00:25
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I think the smartest thing for Disney to do is drop the whole hierarchical canon and adopt the philosophy that Star Wars is essentially a fable, a fairy tale with laser swords. So while they may be making new material based on a set background, that in itself does not invalidate any old stuff that gets contradicted. And indeed, new works following the old timeline can still be created. EDIT: I mean it kinda goes on now, if you think about it. Everyone seems to act like the years between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back is a limitless playground, but after a while you have to wonder if Luke and company ever get a chance to take a coffee break. SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Nov 1, 2012 |
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Nov 1, 2012 02:38
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I just want to see them make a movie without worrying about being weighed down by the shackles of the EU. Canon be damned, they'd be a lot better off if they do their own thing and jettison off all the EU crap that has accumulated over the years  (Plus it'd be a great time to just straight up reboot the whole post RotJ stuff and start over from scratch. It'd be a welcome change)
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Nov 1, 2012 05:33
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Oh dear my mind is now full of weird crossovers.  I am simultaneously appalled and intrigued; this deal might clean up a whole lot of dross, but I do like my (Zahn/Xwings/Stover/Comics+cherrypicking the rest) continuum. Jason Fry and Dan Wallace will probably kill themselves now. We must save Horse Pilot!
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Nov 1, 2012 06:20
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Srice posted:I just want to see them make a movie without worrying about being weighed down by the shackles of the EU. Canon be damned, they'd be a lot better off if they do their own thing and jettison off all the EU crap that has accumulated over the years As much as I love some of the EU stuff (Thrawn Trilogy, Zahns other stuff, Rogue/Wraith Squadron and some of the comics), I'd be ok with them just pulling a Star Trek reboot. Although I'd be lying if I said I didn't want a TV series about Rogue Squadron similar to something like BSG.
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Nov 1, 2012 12:31
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ecureuilmatrix posted:We must save Horse Pilot! It's going to be an interesting game of probabilities to speculate over in the next couple of years, in terms of how much of the EU will survive Episode 7. It's not going to be an EU adaptation. Considering the age of the original cast, the films either won't feature them, or will set it decades after ROTJ in order to accommodate them. If the former, the may set it even further in the future. Either way, I think it's probable that the Bantam era (0-15 years post-Endor) is pretty safe. I think the only thing that's at risk is the Solo kids and whether Luke marries Mara. So in summary, I am confident that Horse Pilot is safe. I think there will have to be a new antagonist that is not the Galactic Empire, because frankly films set around "rebuilding the Republic" or any potential Empire mopping-up operation would be a bit mundane. I'm hopeful it won't be Sith because of Lucas' the-Emperor-dying-is-the-end-of-the-Sith vision. I think either they will either: * Deliberately set things several centuries after ROTJ thereby avoiding any damage to the EU * Set things several decades after ROTJ, saving the EU except for the DHC Legacy series (which I wouldn't miss: it was decent enough but I dislike the idea that the good work of the films' protagonists is undone so quickly) * Set things a few decades after ROTJ as per GL's vague comments on sequel trilogies, thereby invalidating everything from NJO onwards. My favourite scenario would be to invalidate anything after TUF, because I really enjoyed the NJO and hate what has followed. That failing, I'd like to see a centuries jump. Thinking wishfully for a moment, I don't think any film would suffer creatively or in terms of marketability doing a centuries jump. Just maybe, those taking on the franchise recognise the fan-base of the EU is not insignificant. I'm not half as protective of it as I was maybe seven years ago, but I still think it would be a dick move to completely invalidate it. Its main attraction, to me at least, is that it's been a unified, single-continuity, continuation of the story of the films in some sort of official canon capacity (even if it isn't "G-canon"). To turn around and say "never happened" would be a bit of a cock punch. DougieFFC fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Nov 1, 2012 |
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Nov 1, 2012 14:05
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Uh, they're probably just going to make a trilogy of movies that have little connection to the EU and something kinda swashbuckling fun like Pirates of the Caribbean but with Star Wars. And then it'll be a story with little impact on anything EU and probably only have cameos from the original actors. So I guess what I'm saying is that it'll be fun.
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Nov 1, 2012 14:21
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I don't know, I think they'll want to tell epic stories on the same scale as the existing movies. Should also say: this could be a good thing for the EU. It's stagnated because Del Rey have lacked the balls to let go of the big 3 as leading characters whilst not developing the next generation sufficiently. Featuring an entirely new set of characters and having them in a sequel rather than prequel context ought to be the catalyst to put them to bed. So I guess best scenario for EU: no significant trampling on existing continuity, new characters Worst case: Complete trampling/reboot.
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Nov 1, 2012 14:32
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Don't write off the possibility of recasting the Big 3, which I think is a strong possibility, seeing that Star Trek managed it with big success. I'll be Christopher Pine's red-shirt any day 
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Nov 1, 2012 15:19
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I think they're absolutely going to invalidate the EU. They may say something like "we appreciate the extensive universe and contributions of its talented artists blah blah blah" but ultimately no one at Lucasfilm (the actual film-making part) or Disney will give a poo poo about anything in the EU. For better or for worse. They may name drop the occasional planet or be inspired by comic art like the Clone Wars show selectively mines stuff from the EU but I think that will be about the most that can be expected. I also think it's not going to be set centuries in the future. One of the few things that Lucas has always been consistent about is that if there were any sequels they would be the same distance after the OT that the OT is from the PT. Plus setting it centuries in the future with no connection to the current movies would alienate the casual viewers they most want to cash in on. At the very least I'm positive we'll see Threepio and Artoo as central characters again, as Lucas has also been pretty consistent that they're the audience equivalent for the movies.
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Nov 1, 2012 15:46
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SirPhoebos posted:Don't write off the possibility of recasting the Big 3, which I think is a strong possibility, seeing that Star Trek managed it with big success. I'll be Christopher Pine's red-shirt any day Ryan Gosling for Han Solo please!
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Nov 1, 2012 15:47
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Has replacing characters with different actors ever been that big a deal. Bond does it all the time. Dr Who does. There is <0% Harrison Ford will agree to anything so Han needs to be replaced anyway.
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Nov 1, 2012 15:49
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Chairman Capone posted:I think they're absolutely going to invalidate the EU. They may say something like "we appreciate the extensive universe and contributions of its talented artists blah blah blah" but ultimately no one at Lucasfilm (the actual film-making part) or Disney will give a poo poo about anything in the EU. I agree but it can't be overlooked that the EU probably has a turnover of tens of millions of dollars every year. That isn't an insignificant trade. Edit: According to this site, the total revenue from the books stands at $1.82bn. quote:I also think it's not going to be set centuries in the future. One of the few things that Lucas has always been consistent about is that if there were any sequels they would be the same distance after the OT that the OT is from the PT. Plus setting it centuries in the future with no connection to the current movies would alienate the casual viewers they most want to cash in on. If it doesn't feature the characters of the OT, and it doesn't feature the Empire as the antagonist, what does it matter whether they set it 20 years after vs. 200 years? If KOTOR and TOR taught us one thing, it's that you can tell a popular SW story a long way removed from the OT era. Okay, TOR has sort of flopped, but that is based on the game itself (the initial uptake was huge). You can still have a connection with the current movies, you just do it in a different way. I'm wishful thinking here but I do think a case can be made for continuing the EU. Star Wars is a multimedia franchise and the best way to milk it is to deliver across the multiple formats they are at the moment. Tearing up the last 20 years of that will weaken this position. DougieFFC fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Nov 1, 2012 |
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Nov 1, 2012 16:17
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DougieFFC posted:Edit: According to this site, the total revenue from the books stands at $1.82bn. That may be the case, but on the other hand, the movies alone made more than three times that amount. When you take the ratio of revenue to individual releases, the movies blow the books right out of the water. Let's be honest: fandoms are predictable. You have to seriously enrage them (like have M. Night Shayamaln direct your movie adaptation) to actually drive them away from your product-and even then they will forgive if they see any indication that you've learned from your mistakes. At this point Disney has one of two options: 1. They force themselves to work within the confines of the bloated mass of canon that has been built up over the years. So if casual fans (where the bulk of the revenue is going to come from) want to know what the hell is going on, they have to wade through an EU that's let's be honest, much more bad than it is good. 2. Strike out on a new road using the six movies as their base and nothing more. Keep selling books, but base them on the new continuity. I can almost guarantee you that the hardcore fans will still eat the new poo poo up, not one will stay away because Waru, Chief of State Daala, Force Cthulhu, and Bug Orgies are no longer a part of the continuing narrative. SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Nov 1, 2012 |
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Nov 1, 2012 18:30
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I sincerely doubt they're going to make future movies around the existing EU, they're going to ignore whatever they want to ignore. However, I think there are chances that we'll see the more popular characters and ideas like Thrawn and Mara Jade show up in "re-imagined" ways.
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Nov 1, 2012 18:54
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The quote of the day on Wookieepedia is great:Luke Skywalker posted:"The chronology of the Clone Wars is confusing."
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Nov 1, 2012 19:44
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That is, Luke. That it is.
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Nov 1, 2012 19:46
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That's one of the entertaining things about EU writers like Timothy Zahn and Jason Fry; they're not adverse to slipping a few jokes like that into their books. In other news, George Lucas has announced his intent to donate a part of the revenue from the Disney sale to charity. Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Nov 1, 2012 |
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Nov 1, 2012 19:50
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SirPhoebos posted:That may be the case, but on the other hand, the movies alone made more than three times that amount. When you take the ratio of revenue to individual releases, the movies blow the books right out of the water. That's false binary though. It's not make a great movie or sustain the EU. The best business sense, clearly, is to try to make a great movie (the larger revenue source) with minimum harm to the smaller, billion-dollar cash cow. quote:At this point Disney has one of two options: This assumes that the existing continuity in any way contradicts the story they decide they want to tell. We don't know to what extent that is or will be the case. Let's say, for example, they want to stick the next movie 20 years after ROTJ and feature an antagonist that isn't the Empire. Why step on canon up to that point if they have to (most likely, things to do with whether Luke, I honestly think they will try to appease the existing canon up to the point where it constrains their creative vision, because there's no reason not to. Keeping everyone happy may require only superficial revisions to existing concepts (like with Coruscant in the PT), and if they can accomodate that, I think they will. On the fans, I would expect there to be fallout regardless of the quality of the new output. Yes, the last seven years have been a sluice of turd, and there's been some daft poo poo even before that, but there are a lot of people who spend money on the books because they are recognised as more than glorified fan fiction. You don't poo poo on your fan-base like that if you can avoid it. If their vision involved the continuing adventures of the big 3 in the aftermath of ROTJ I think yes, the EU would be pretty hosed all over; but I bet that won't be the plan.
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Nov 1, 2012 20:10
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SirPhoebos posted:2. Strike out on a new road using the six movies as their base and nothing more. Keep selling books, but base them on the new continuity. I can almost guarantee you that the hardcore fans will still eat the new poo poo up, not one will stay away because Waru, Chief of State Daala, Force Cthulhu, and Bug Orgies are no longer a part of the continuing narrative. Honestly this would probably be the best way to go. They'll lose some sales from people who are really into the EU canon, but to approach it from another angle: EU canon is a hosed up, horribly tangled mess. (Disclosure: I haven't read any Star Wars books since high school and the NJO was the most "current" thing I read, so I'm going off what I hear about stuff beyond that. But I feel that it's also a valuable view because of what I'm going to say) If there's an easy answer to give to someone who has said that they want to get into the EU books, the closest thing to a consensus I've seen is the Thrawn trilogy. Now that's good and all, but those books are about two decades old! Any other suggestions on where to start usually come with some sort of caveat, such as "you can start here but you might want to look up _____ first" or "this series starts out good but it devolves into garbage down the line". Basically, what I'm getting at is, if I want to read more stories in the Star Wars universe, it's a pain in the rear end to figure out what to do. It's the same reason why the Avengers movie sold like gangbusters but very little of that success actually transferred over to the comics. That is to say, it's not very accessible and you have to do a little research to find the good entry points. Just like how someone may have impulse-bought an Avengers comic and never bought another issue due to confusion, I'm sure there are at least a few people out there who impulse-bought a Star Wars book only to throw it in the trash after reading too many pages about characters they don't know or care about taking part in bug orgies. If they started the EU over from scratch then sure, some fans will quit. But I think there's a pretty good chance that the new fans gained from becoming more accessible would outnumber them (and most likely after two more decades this would be an issue once more, but hey that's how it goes). (Also I'm sure that eventually, nerds will realize that their bug orgy book is going to literally vanish once it's declared non-canon and that if they choose to, they could still enjoy it despite its non-canon status)
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Nov 1, 2012 20:32
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Srice posted:EU canon is a hosed up, horribly tangled mess. Yes it's a mess, and I think it could benefit from pruning. I don't think many would shed a tear if bug-orgy onwards was given its own canon and effectively pruned. I think a lot of people would be unhappy to lose NJO if it was pruned but would accept it for the greater health of the franchise. I think there would be a far greater backlash if the stepped on the existing EU further. I.e. say episode VII opens and we find Luke is a celibate grand master of the Jedi, Han and Leia never married or had children, and there is heavy exposition that explains the Empire surrendered immediately after losing the Emperor. I think that would rub a lot of people the wrong way, justifiably (these are the stories that re-ignited the fan-base in the first place), and would also be completely unnecessary.
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Nov 1, 2012 21:29
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^^^I don't think anyone here is against compromise, if a compromise is what you're suggesting. But it does mean you have to pick and choose what's a 'key' feature of the EU and what isn't.^^DougieFFC posted:That's false binary though. It's not make a great movie or sustain the EU. The best business sense, clearly, is to try to make a great movie (the larger revenue source) with minimum harm to the smaller, billion-dollar cash cow. I'm actually of the opinion that a reset would improve the EU. There have been some high points sure. It honestly isn't worth the effort, when the alternative is to begin a new EU. The old books are never going away, but with a restart you can maintain a consise vision of your product and avoid having it turn into a turd-flinging match between different writers like it did during Legacy of the Force. If Disney wanted to be really smart, though, they would ditch the whole idea of some kind of heirarchial canon and adopt the philosphy that these are fables that just happen to be set in a fantastic Galaxy Far, Far Away. So any given story can be connected to certain other stories and not to others, but the release of anything new does not invalidate what came before it. SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Nov 1, 2012 |
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Nov 1, 2012 21:36
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The solution is, "It was Infinities all along!"
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Nov 1, 2012 22:07
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The trouble is that you want your Star Wars to be a galaxy-spanning conflict solved by a handful of regular dudes and a fruity robot doing things their way, and that is bound to conflict with any part of the EU, unless they actually use an EU story, in which case Episode VII: Attack of the bugnest orgies (loving the new title)
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Nov 1, 2012 23:02
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Disneylucasfilm will completely ignore the EU when making these films. They may happen to adopt a few plot points or characters from the EU, but only because they're good ideas to begin with. And even then, it won't be because "it's established canon," but because it works. Because it's good storytelling or a good character. That it has already been written into the EU will be pure happenstance. And frankly, I think they'll aggressively stay away from any of the EU and write three completely original screenplays. 99.99% of the revenue from these movies will come from people who've never read a Star Wars novel or comic book. Heck, 99% will have never played a Star Wars video/computer game. The general public is utterly unaware that an EU even exists. Why on earth would Disneylucasfilm be concerned with keeping continuity with it? What Sir Phoebos said was dead-on. For these movies, the six films are canon, nothing more.
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Nov 2, 2012 00:15
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My guess is that the new movies will be pre Ep1 or concurrent EP 2. A Jedi and apprentice main character they will be Off having an adventure of local not galactic importance. Right now the Clone Wars is the face of the franchise with target demographic. They will want to keep that look and feel. Cg up a Yoda and we never see or hear about what is going on in wide universe.
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Nov 2, 2012 01:16
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Lincoln posted:99.99% of the revenue from these movies will come from people who've never read a Star Wars novel or comic book. Could you cite your source on this please? People who fit into the category "have read Star Wars EU material" is a pretty large group, and it's gonna be people who are already fans of the franchise who line up to see Ep VII first. The existing EU fan base is a pretty huge target market; if it wasn't, there wouldn't be 120+ novels out for it. It would be potentially ruinous if Ep VII completely shits all over the established continuity. That continuity is one of the big draws that the Star Wars EU has.
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Nov 2, 2012 01:22
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Star Wars only even exists as it is because of the EU. If there hadn't been the early 90's revival with the novels Star Wars would now be a dead property. It's far more likely that EVERY Star Wars fan is aware of some facet of what's going on in the books or comics (and that it relates to or expands upon the movies in some canonical fashion), even if they don't know the depths of the utter idiocy much of it wallows in. Ask someone if they know that Chewie got hit by a moon. Or that Han and Leia got married and had kids. Go ahead. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Nov 2, 2012 |
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Nov 2, 2012 01:24
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ScottyJSno posted:My guess is that the new movies will be pre Ep1 or concurrent EP 2. A Jedi and apprentice main character they will be Off having an adventure of local not galactic importance.
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Nov 2, 2012 01:30
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Yeah, I can't see them placing episode 7 anywhere other than some point after ROTJ. The Clone Wars movie wasn't ep 7 or 2.5 or anything.
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Nov 2, 2012 01:35
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Lincoln posted:Disneylucasfilm will completely ignore the EU when making these films. They may happen to adopt a few plot points or characters from the EU, but only because they're good ideas to begin with. And even then, it won't be because "it's established canon," but because it works. Because it's good storytelling or a good character. That it has already been written into the EU will be pure happenstance. And frankly, I think they'll aggressively stay away from any of the EU and write three completely original screenplays. This might have made sense in 1999, but in 2012 a general Star Wars fan has either read a comic, played a Star Wars video game or read a book. Considering what a flop the 3D prequal re-releases are with normal movie going people it might be best to a least try and not piss off the hardcore fans who more or less own everything but the originals on DVD, VHS and Blue Ray because all of us will be not doubt seeing it in the first week. Hell, if they get a good writer the movie doesn't even have to a massive over the top THE GALAXY IS DOOMED WITHOUT THE BIG THREE deal that will do EU damage at all.
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Nov 2, 2012 02:18
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jivjov posted:Could you cite your source on this please? I think you are vastly overestimating how attached folks are to the EU. The reason the books sell so much is because for almost 30 years, they have literally been the only source for the continuation of Star Wars past ROTJ. The announcement of new films completely changes that. While I have no proof that there will be no downside to disregarding the EU, take into consideration that every new VHS or DVD of the Star Wars films has sold like hotcakes since 1997 despite all the dumb changes Lucas keeps on making. EDIT: To further highlight the lunacy of trying to preserve the EU: Should Disney appeal to the wishes of the "Fandolorians" who love Karen Traviss's books? They're just as big of fans of the EU as everyone on the forum. SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Nov 2, 2012 |
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Nov 2, 2012 02:19
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SeanBeansShako posted:This might have made sense in 1999, but in 2012 a general Star Wars fan has either read a comic, played a Star Wars video game or read a book. The hardcore fans who are invested in the EU are so invested in Star Wars they will go see the movies regardless of anything the movies do with or to the EU. The vast majority of the viewing audience don't have any such investment in the EU. Even the majority of fans don't have that much investment in the EU. Personally, I'd prefer that they go with original scripts with maybe EU names and perhaps a visual design or two, rather than try to kludge Thrawn in by recasting all the lead characters, or concoct something laden down with arcane references and still having to recast all the lead characters. I really think that the only original cast member to return will be Mark Hamill as Luke, serving as a mentor figure at some point. Maybe Anthony Daniels will play C-3PO, but Kenny Baker is pushing 80 at this point. Now, character-wise, I think that 3PO and R2 will be the chief link between the trilogies, which befits their basic role in the movies- to be our everymen (this is diluted in the prequels, of course, like much that is good about SW).
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Nov 2, 2012 02:47
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SirPhoebos posted:I think you are vastly overestimating how attached folks are to the EU. The reason the books sell so much is because for almost 30 years, they have literally been the only source for the continuation of Star Wars past ROTJ. I don't think that the affection people have for the EU is going to evaporate just because there are new movies out. The EU didn't slow down because Star Wars suddenly had a weekly cartoon complete with tie-in movie.
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Nov 2, 2012 02:48
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jivjov posted:I don't think that the affection people have for the EU is going to evaporate just because there are new movies out. The EU didn't slow down because Star Wars suddenly had a weekly cartoon complete with tie-in movie. I'm 90% sure that the post-Jedi EU will experience the same thing in the wake of Episode VII that the pre-New Hope EU did when Phantom Menace came out. Except more so. Reboots are hot right now. JJTrek effectively wiped away four television series and god knows how much nerd love with an 'alternate timeline' story, and did well for it. 'Rebooting' a segment of the Star Wars universe won't seem unappealing by comparison. e: What I am saying is that this will at best have gently caress all to do with the EU and most likely will actively override it.
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Nov 2, 2012 02:52
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I can't believe LucasFilm and LucasArts was only worth 4 billion. In comparison, Disney pulls in 10 times that in gross revenue per year. It seems like they could have made a shiat ton more money off the Star Wars universe. What went wrong?
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Nov 2, 2012 03:35
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Freedom
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Admiral Snuggles posted:I can't believe LucasFilm and LucasArts was only worth 4 billion. In comparison, Disney pulls in 10 times that in gross revenue per year. It seems like they could have made a shiat ton more money off the Star Wars universe. What went wrong? This shouldn't be taken as an appraisal of the whole value of Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and everything else Lucasfilm owned. This is what Lucas was willing to sell for. Star Wars was estimated earlier this year to be "worth" $30 billion, but that's just adding up the total revenues earned so far by the franchise. And nothing "went wrong"- Lucas genuinely believes in the notion that films are works of art, including his own. That's why he hasn't gone to completely capitalize on Star Wars as an entity- he has a notion of artistic integrity. This is depressing when you consider the prequels, but hey, having integrity doesn't make you any better at anything else.
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Nov 2, 2012 03:48
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