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Oliax posted:Buy-side IM (broadly defined including VC, PE, HF, etc.) provides you with the ultimate professional leverage as far as making money is concerned. You can invest $1MM as easily as 10-100x that amount, but the potential rewards are 10-100x higher. IF you have aspirations to make OBSCENE amounts of money, this is one of the most direct paths to do so. Yeah. Face time absolutely does not exist once you're at the analyst level. You can work banking hours but if your calls don't work out no one cares. On the other hand if you're making great calls working 40 hours a week no one will think twice when you're leaving the office at 5pm. I witnessed that directly at my internship in IM this summer. Definitely was face time at the research associate level though - you don't make calls at most funds at that level so you move up only if you're perceived to be adding value aka working tons of hours/ meeting deadlines/attention to detail similar to banking (still only 60-70 hrs/wk tops though). Swingline fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Sep 17, 2012 |
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Sep 17, 2012 21:02
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The Tinfoil Price posted:I'm interviewing for a trading internship at Five Rings Capital next week, does anyone here have any opinions/advice they're willing to huck at me? Yeah they're legit. Got an assessment with Peak6 this week. Anyone go through it? I think there a pretty good firm and loved to be a part of it. And then I got one with Tibra and Optiver soon so this all fun and I probably won't pass any.
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Sep 19, 2012 01:52
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Howdy. I wanted to know if anyone could recommend good texts for learning public equity valuation via self-study. I'm looking to do some investing and would feel better about it if I was able to do some basic excel modelling myself. (Or whatever the tool of choice is, I'm assuming excel.) The book I am working through now is this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0071639233/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00 I have a CS degree though so I am perfectly able to deal with fancier/more academic texts, *provided they are actually going to be useful application-wise*. Ideally any texts involving abstract modeling concepts also include concrete descriptions on how to do them in excel/R/matlab/etc. Thanks!
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Sep 25, 2012 02:21
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Just accepted my FT IBD offer at a BB in NY. Another ND guy on the street, count it!
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Sep 27, 2012 19:46
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Swingline posted:Just accepted my FT IBD offer at a BB in NY. Another ND guy on the street, count it! Congrats!  Make sure you get whatever partying or other life events you has on your short-term bucket list done now, because once you start your rear end no-longer belongs to you.
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Sep 27, 2012 20:27
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What pressure do you all work under on a daily basis and what's the tone when you fuckup?
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Sep 28, 2012 08:54
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Its Miller Time posted:What pressure do you all work under on a daily basis and what's the tone when you fuckup? The urgency is often unnecessary, the harassing takes a little getting used to. In terms of "loving up" its definitely subjective and depends on the MD. The older one definitely is more patient than the younger, but he seriously has no filter and will say the meanest things. The younger one will just give you the silent treatment and not trust you.
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Sep 30, 2012 07:56
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Had a phone interview for Wells Fargo's Financial Analyst Program last week. Went well and the program seems good. This job market is cold.
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Oct 1, 2012 22:16
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fougera posted:The urgency is often unnecessary, the harassing takes a little getting used to. In terms of "loving up" its definitely subjective and depends on the MD. The older one definitely is more patient than the younger, but he seriously has no filter and will say the meanest things. The younger one will just give you the silent treatment and not trust you. In general, when you first start you will do very little where you have the ability to "gently caress up" content. If you can research companies, prepare presentations and meet unnecessarily obnoxious deadlines, you should be fine. MANY people will review your work before a client sees it, and in general you are not really expected to contribute anything meaningful to the product for quite a while (even if it may seem otherwise). However, where the pressue can definitly come in is when you attempt to have a personal life and combine it with life as a junior IBD employee. The opening scenes of the first Harold and Kumar movie are fairly accurate. No one gives a sh*t about what you might have had planned. Latet night, weekend, holiday, whatever.. you are on call 24/7. This unfortunately doesn't change even as you climb the ranks.
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Oct 1, 2012 22:21
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[big ol post]
White Kid Polo fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Oct 2, 2012 04:34
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The way I see it is that kids with 3.5+ GPAs, finance internships, and ECs get slaughtered at target schools every year during banking recruiting. Trying to swing a <3.0 GPA at a non-target seems pretty impossible. The kids who go from state schools to banking absolutely crush it with 4.0s, crazy leadership, awesome internships, and excellent networking. Even they often fail. I don't want to be a dick but I'd say bulge brackets and 90% of solid MM are out of the question for you. Get your GPA above a 3 asap, lead a bunch of clubs, and try to intern at a boutique. Then, MAYBE you could jump to a MM, but unlikely. Alternatively get a normal job and focus on MBA -> banking. Edit: I guess your only chance is to go to USC, prolong graduation as long as possible so that you can do an internship, crush classes and lead poo poo so that you can obtain said internship. I'm not familiar with how age plays into things but the crazy decisions/life path you've led will certainly be a huge topic of discussion in interviews for better or for worse depending on how well you articulate your experiences/reasoning for every move. Bankers love to grill people on every life decision they've made up to this point even for cookie cutter target school kids who will be graduating at 22. Double edit: How the hell do you plan on transferring back to USC with a 2.6? USC is a pretty drat selective school. Does the fact that you used to go there make it easier or something? Swingline fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Oct 2, 2012 |
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Oct 2, 2012 06:46
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Swingline posted:The way I see it is that kids with 3.5+ GPAs, finance internships, and ECs get slaughtered at target schools every year during banking recruiting. Trying to swing a <3.0 GPA at a non-target seems pretty impossible. The kids who go from state schools to banking absolutely crush it with 4.0s, crazy leadership, awesome internships, and excellent networking. Even they often fail. I don't want to be a dick but I'd say bulge brackets and 90% of solid MM are out of the question for you. Get your GPA above a 3 asap, lead a bunch of clubs, and try to intern at a boutique. Then, MAYBE you could jump to a MM, but unlikely. Alternatively get a normal job and focus on MBA -> banking. Yes, the fact that I already attended USC means I can transfer back in without a huge transfer application process, which is extremely lucky for me. As for the age thing, I have a decent explanation for each direction on my life path, as long as interviewers can tolerate someone who wasn't into finance their whole lives, but only later realized they were interested in it. I'm hoping that my "story" will at least make me easier to remember (but on the pessimistic side, probably easier to remember in not a good way). So from what I gather from your response, business school at USC is probably worth a lot more than a vanilla Econ degree from Michigan? But that response might have been primarily from solely the "entering IB from undergrad" perspective. White Kid Polo fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Oct 2, 2012 10:54
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White Kid Polo posted:Apparently there are things like "Corporate Finance" and "S&T" (still haven't figured out what this stands for) that are separate from IB. What exactly do you think IB is?
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Oct 2, 2012 11:28
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White Kid Polo posted:Yes, the fact that I already attended USC means I can transfer back in without a huge transfer application process, which is extremely lucky for me. As for the age thing, I have a decent explanation for each direction on my life path, as long as interviewers can tolerate someone who wasn't into finance their whole lives, but only later realized they were interested in it. I'm hoping that my "story" will at least make me easier to remember (but on the pessimistic side, probably easier to remember in not a good way). You're already in a tough spot for MBA admissions since they really dissect all of your transcripts - simply having a solid GPA at the last school you attend won't cut it. The key for job choice for MBA admissions is to understand they rank people within buckets. Consultants applying for MBAs do not compete with IBDers applying for MBAs do not compete with marketing guys do not compete with F500 corporate finance development etc. When choosing a career think about which bucket it falls in and how it stacks up within that bucket. For example back office roles at banks will be lovely for MBA admissions because you will fall in the "finance guy" admission bucket and will be competing with bankers.
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Oct 2, 2012 14:28
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Well, the good thing is you've given this some thought and you are facing what will be an uphill challenge realistically. Some thoughts from an old fart who might have been interviewing you a few years ago. 1. Your bizarre life story to date is an asset (subject to what follows). Applying to business school, investment banking or other highly selective jobs is a high-beta activity for anyone who does it. (Look up that term if you don't know what it means.) Therefore you want to stand out as much as possible, being plain-vanilla , average guy won't get you what you want. If you they end up hating your background, you still won't get what you want, but you may end up connecting with some of the interviewers who will just love you, and hence offer you the job, spot in the program, etc. Just make sure you have a good story to tell, AND be able to convince them that your indecision was a foolish indiscretion of youth and that you are now even hungrier and dedicated as a result of the wisdom you earned through first-hand experience. (BTW, you may be older than some of the people who will interview you, do not expect ANY consideration or deference for your age.) 2. As far as your program choices go, if you can get back into the business program at USC, that is probably your best bet, especially if you have any interest in living in SoCal long-term. USC has a very strong network in southern California and "Business" will prepare you far better for a career in IBanking, Consulting, Accounting, etc. than economics would. (See my earlier post about the distinctions between the two.) 3. Finally, if you really want to pursue the Ibanking thing long-term, but are having trouble getting interest from recruiters out of undergrad, consider accounting (at a big firm) as a stepping stone pre-MBA. You will learn some very useful skills that will be directly applicable in an MBA and potential future finance career. Good luck.
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Oct 2, 2012 19:34
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Yeah I second the accounting suggestion. Big 4 Audit/Tax can be done for sure if you get your GPA up to a 3.0 and interview well. You'll also have to get to 150 credits (I think) to earn your CPA which either means a 5th year of college or a MSA, both of which allow you to improve your grades and find a relevant internship during the summer. From what I've heard a TON of people who go into banking as an associate from MBA did 3-5 years of big 4 accounting pre-MBA. It's a great background since the firm knows you've worked before under strict deadlines/attention to detail and are really savvy with financial statements already.
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Oct 2, 2012 22:25
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I'd like to point out a sanity check on accounting though by being realistic. First off, I've only heard nightmares about accounting in that it's really boring work with really boring people and that compared to the hours you end up working you're really underpaid. Also, given your undergrad GPA and the sheer volume of accounting guys applying to MBA programs every year there's far from a guarantee that you will get into an MBA school that does IB OCR. Finally, assuming you do land at a solid MBA, you're going to be up against an incredibly large and extremely competitive pool compared to a very limited number of associate spots, assuming the markets don't heat up to 2005-7 level deal flow when you're applying, in which case you're golden. As I said I go to a school (undergrad) where every BB and tons of MMs take ~2 interns each per year. I witnessed incredibly bright, motivated kids with excellent credentials get slaughtered and are now signing offers (I'm a senior now) in ops, random F1000 rotationals, weird boutique consulting companies, and other things they don't want to do. I still can't believe I somehow made it, I'm the only kid in my class who managed to network into a BB IB FT role. Point is, your chances are always going to be very slim even if you rock out your next 2-4 semesters, land at Big 4, and get into a solid MBA. And sacrificing 3-5 years of your life to do accounting if you hate it will not be worth it on a risk/reward basis if your only goal is to become a banking associate. Banking is not for everyone and the biggest lesson I've learned over the past two years is to stop feeling like you're entitled to it just because you really want it. At the end of the day you might just be the first interview of the day for a hung over/pissed off banker who decides to hate you arbitrarily. I would do what you want now and consider an MBA/IB if the opportunity presents itself. Don't do something you hate just to get into banking 7 years from now.
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Oct 2, 2012 22:44
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White Kid Polo posted:Yes, the fact that I already attended USC means I can transfer back in without a huge transfer application process, which is extremely lucky for me. As for the age thing, I have a decent explanation for each direction on my life path, as long as interviewers can tolerate someone who wasn't into finance their whole lives, but only later realized they were interested in it. I'm hoping that my "story" will at least make me easier to remember (but on the pessimistic side, probably easier to remember in not a good way). Chapel Hill is a decent school, but it doesn't have very much pull for NYC recruiting, if that's where you want to be. Given your situation, I'd advise you to just do what is best for you and consider alternative routes. There isn't only one clear path to banking, so remember that. You don't necessarily need to transfer to Michigan or USC if you don't want to, and if you do transfer, consider if it will still be worth it to you if you do not make it into banking, because to be honest, it's a crap shoot no matter where you are. Will you be OK with transferring to Michigan/USC if you don't get a decent banking offer? UNC is a fine school, and if you really want banking I'd say maybe get your GPA up, and maybe work for a little while and then go for MBA, and get into banking/PE/consulting that way.
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Oct 7, 2012 17:57
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Who's beginning to get excited about bonus season?
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Oct 8, 2012 02:51
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Its Miller Time posted:Who's beginning to get excited about bonus season? aka layoff season
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Oct 8, 2012 03:38
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Can anyone shed some light on what kind of money I should be spending on rent as a first year analyst? I'm starting this summer. I want to live walking distance to my office which is in midtown on park but it's looking like basic studios near there are going to be ~$2000/mo+ from a quick look on NYT RE listings. Obviously 2k/mo is very doable on an IB salary but I still feel bad as a 21 year old dropping that kind of dough when I could probably do the UES or somewhere else for ~1500 or get a roommate for even less. Problem is I go to a midwest school and all of my friends will be in Chicago so I don't even know who I would be rooming with. Also what am I looking at for broker fees/other upfront costs? I am getting a 10k pre-tax relocation bonus one month before start and am hoping that will cover first/last mo + security deposit + fees, is that unrealistic on a 2k/mo apt? If my projected all in comp is 130-140k (70k+10k signing+last year first year bonus at my bank was 45-50-60k bottom-middle-top bucket according to dealbreaker) what should my budget be on rent?
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Oct 8, 2012 23:47
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In this environment I'd question budgeting for anything, especially rent, based on expected bonus numbers.
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Oct 9, 2012 01:49
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zmcnulty posted:In this environment I'd question budgeting for anything, especially rent, based on expected bonus numbers. Ok I agree, so what should be my budget for 70k base + 10k signing? I'm really clueless.
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Oct 9, 2012 05:03
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Swingline posted:Ok I agree, so what should be my budget for 70k base + 10k signing? I'm really clueless. Since you're gonna be close to work and don't need a car or much transportation, I would say around 30% of gross income per month. Or ~$2k a month in your case.
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Oct 9, 2012 05:19
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Check this out. Gave me a few laughs. http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/10/worlds-most-oblivious-hedge-fund.html
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Oct 9, 2012 10:21
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Swingline posted:Can anyone shed some light on what kind of money I should be spending on rent as a first year analyst? I'm starting this summer. Some thoughts about life in NYC as an IB analyst: 1. You won't need a car ever. In Manhattan you can get around much better by subway/taxi. Rather than trying to be close to mid-town try to be on a subway line that gets you to and from work easily. Especially since midtown east is pretty dead at night. Also, most nights you will be taking a car home paid for by work anyway. 2. Keep in mind that you will be using your apartment primarily for sleeping. You will not be spending huge amounts of time there, so no need to spend extra $$$ on prime real estate or huge amounts of space. 3. If you really want to save some $$$ you could also consider Long Island City / Astoria in Queens or Brooklyn Heights/Caroll Gardens/Park Slope in Brooklyn. They are convenient to Manhattan - and especially in Queens - you can get some awesome skyscraper views if that's your thing. 4. Besides being a way to save money, roommates can be a ready made introduction / friend network in the big bad city. I would recommend taking the risk of trying to find one although I can't comment on how this is done these days (been a while for me...) Perhaps there are some facebook / linkedin groups for new IB analysts? Or a SA forum?
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Oct 9, 2012 18:16
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Oliax posted:Some thoughts about life in NYC as an IB analyst: Yeah I lived in the city for my summer internship so I'm familiar with the no-car thing. I actually found another guy at my school who needs a roommate so that's good. Last summer I lived on the UES in the 90s and worked on Park in the 20s so my commute was 30 minutes door to door and that honestly killed me mostly because it was so drat hot the commute was unbearable/I'd show up to work drenched in sweat. I'm probably going to look at Murray Hill/East Village/Gramercy which will be a solid compromise between distance to my office in midtown east and his work which is mostly with bank clients scattered throughout FiDi and Midtown. I guess we should shoot for ~3k/mo total so 1.5k/mo each for a rent budget?
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Oct 9, 2012 20:39
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Swingline posted:Yeah I lived in the city for my summer internship so I'm familiar with the no-car thing. I actually found another guy at my school who needs a roommate so that's good. Last summer I lived on the UES in the 90s and worked on Park in the 20s so my commute was 30 minutes door to door and that honestly killed me mostly because it was so drat hot the commute was unbearable/I'd show up to work drenched in sweat. $3K a month should get you something decent. My advice would be not to get too hung up on your first place in the city. New Yorkers obsess about real estate to a degree that would be called OCD anywhere else in the country, try not to buy into that. If its got two rooms that can fit a bed, someplace to put a couch, table and TV, and nothing scurries out of sight when you turn on the lights you'll be ahead of the game.  Also, try to splurge on a doorman/concierge building. Since you will essentially never be home during businesss hours, these guys will be life-savers if you ever need something delivered, have the cable guy show up, etc. There's a reason every half-decent building has one. As for the commute, New York weather sucks in the summer. (That's why people invented the Hampton's, Jersey Shore, Newport, etc.) You can usually beat the summer heat by getting on the train by 7:30am. Consider joining a gym near your office, bring your workclothes with you, and change after you work out. That can help. I agree completely, if you don't like uber-crowded subway trains, avoid the UES at all costs. You will do much better on the West side of the island which is almost over-served by train lines.
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Oct 10, 2012 12:41
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I don't get the heat complaints. The platforms are hot. The subways are normally air conditioned. It's like 1-5 minutes of being slightly uncomfortable. Busy as gently caress. A lot of small acquisitions/sales in the E&M industry due to the upcoming estate tax changes.
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Oct 21, 2012 01:03
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I'm about five months deep, and all I can think is--why the gently caress would anyone want to do this poo poo? It has to get better, right? Maybe second year... And I have it GOOD too. Top-tier bank, worked on a few pitches but most of my time is execution--leveraged loans, HYBs, div recaps, and both buy- and sell-side M&A so far. Grass is always greener maybe but it sure looks like Associates have all the fun from here... Buyside, strongside?
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Oct 23, 2012 06:09
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tolerabletariff posted:I'm about five months deep, and all I can think is--why the gently caress would anyone want to do this poo poo? It has to get better, right? Maybe second year... Why do people do this? $$$$!! If you get a chance, ask an MD sometime, none of them would tell you (if they're being honest) that this is somehow fulfilling. However, if your tastes don't get too expensive while you're there, it is one of the professions that can legitimately allow you to retire in your 30's. Some people would say that's a fair trade. BTW, the work does get to be less drudgy as you move up, but the pressure ramps up too. Not comfortable shmoozing / selling clients? You will not be a happy MD.
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Oct 23, 2012 16:29
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Oliax posted:it is one of the professions that can legitimately allow you to retire in your 30's. Don't listen to this.
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Oct 23, 2012 22:14
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Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of asset-backed/distressed lending? I'm in the final round for an analyst program at one of the major banks and I'd love to talk to someone who might be more knowledgeable than myself. It seems like a niche area of finance but the skill-set you develop seems like it would be transferable and the work could potentially be very interesting.
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Oct 24, 2012 01:23
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Swingline posted:Don't listen to this. OK... but then the reasons for working in IB start to get real thin, real fast. 
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Oct 24, 2012 04:58
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If you're doing it strictly for the money, well there are more lower hanging fruits for that...
COUNTIN THE BILLIES fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Oct 24, 2012 |
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Oct 24, 2012 05:06
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Oliax posted:OK... but then the reasons for working in IB start to get real thin, real fast. You work in IB so that A) you can do something else after 2-3 years that doesn't suck and pays well or B) to become an MD and make a lot of money while only working hopefully about 60-70 hours a week and then semi-retiring in your late 40s/50s to do something else like starting a business, sit on boards, join a chill boutique that pays less with better hours, etc. Keep in mind that as a married MD with children living in NYC you will likely be looking at 500k cost of living for your family even on a relatively prudent budget considering the private schooling/college, large apt in Manhattan or big house in a suburb, cars, wife, kids, etc. As a 20 something prospective analyst that may sound crazy to you but according to the anonymous MD of epicureandealmaker 500k is absolutely the low end of what MDs spend/yr without even going crazy on ultra-luxury poo poo. No way you could retire without working 10-15 yrs after being an MD and putting .5-1million away each yr assuming you're making ~1.5m or so which is optimistic in this environment. Sure you could save up a million by the end of your 30s (if you're REALLY good about saving your income, I think this is really unlikely but theoretically possible) as a VP, quit, and live the single life in a lovely studio in FiDi eating ramen the rest of your life to afford living off your nest egg income but that seems pretty silly. Swingline fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Oct 24, 2012 |
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Oct 24, 2012 05:34
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The bitchwork does seem to lessen by the second summer... evidently interns will do most of the worst poo poo and the next batch of analysts arrives before their gone. Still, the time I spend modeling vs. mundane crap is maybe 15% / 85% right now. I don't really understand why these jobs are so competitive to get when I'm pretty sure any schmuck with a GED could do (or quickly learn to do) the vast majority of the job. I don't have time to work out or maintain a normal social life and I'm always stressed because every new staffing I get is SUPER URGENT - FRONT BURNER MISSION CRITICAL. Hey dumbass, I can't have 5 things cookin' on the front burner at once. The staffer gets this; the Associates do not. tolerabletariff fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Oct 24, 2012 |
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Oct 24, 2012 08:27
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Swingline posted:You work in IB so that A) you can do something else after 2-3 years that doesn't suck and pays well or B) to become an MD and make a lot of money while only working hopefully about 60-70 hours a week and then semi-retiring in your late 40s/50s to do something else like starting a business, sit on boards, join a chill boutique that pays less with better hours, etc. Swingline, give my original post another read. Whether you can retire has a whole lot to do with the "if you're tastes don't get too expensive" part and just how well you do while you're there. Not sure about the MD of epicuredealmaker, but off the top of my head I can think of 10+ guys from my MBA class who as a result of their IB career either did retire by their late 30's or now spend their time doing poo poo that has very little to do with making money. None of them live in lovely studios in FiDi eating ramen noodles. And I think all of them would agree that very little of what they did in IB was particularly satisfying or stimulating on a personal level. Certainly doing IB and a brand-name firm is a good (if painful) way to spend your time between undergrad and MBA, But if you are really only going into IB so that "2-3 years from now you can do something else" there are a bunch of things you could do instead that would be just as useful for the resume, potentially much more interesting and allow you to have a social life also. E.g. consulting, asset management, accounting at a Big 4.
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Oct 24, 2012 17:06
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tolerabletariff posted:The bitchwork does seem to lessen by the second summer... evidently interns will do most of the worst poo poo and the next batch of analysts arrives before their gone. Still, the time I spend modeling vs. mundane crap is maybe 15% / 85% right now. I don't really understand why these jobs are so competitive to get when I'm pretty sure any schmuck with a GED could do (or quickly learn to do) the vast majority of the job. Just wait until you get into management, you'll be shocked what most people can't do on their own, if every single detail isn't spelled out for them.  Have you tried going to work out middle of the day? In my day that was the best time to disappear because nothing would get assigned until 5:00pm anyway. 
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Oct 24, 2012 17:14
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Be honest with me IB goons, what do you think the atmosphere is going to be like in the next year or so for capital raises? I'm looking at needing to raise $10mm to acquire some oil wells and work to increase their production. I'm worried that a lot of capital is going to be sidelined for a while.
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Nov 7, 2012 19:07
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