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dwarf74 posted:Umm... I think it's fairly accurate to think of them in terms of technology. Warrens are newer and seem to involve less effort for substantial effects, and can handle tasks with greater finesse. They might not be flashy, but they're extremely effective. I'm not sure what to spoiler anymore, so I'll just spoiler everything. Comments on the power of the warrens The series alludes to the power of magic being related to understanding and belief, almost in a religious sense. For example, Rashan is the human warren of Darkness, which is much less powerful than Kurald Galain. Humans don't understand what constitutes Darkness, what Darkness is. This tenuous grasp leads to weak magic. Compare this to how the Andii wield Darkness. I don't think the Letherii are a fair comparison, as their magic is tainted by Chaos. The Ceda is very powerful but his deep understanding of the warrens drove him to the brink of madness. zokie posted:Also Tellann Imass -> T'Lan Imass
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Nov 4, 2012 01:06
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Mozi posted:Obviously I'm not talking about the series in general. There is a point in GotM where new characters stop being introduced and the focus of the book narrows, and that's what I was referring to. I'm not sure why you would think that I would presume to understand the arc of a 10-book series partway through the first book; I did not mean to give that impression. I have always felt that GotM is written as a stand-alone book. Probably since it could have been his only book if it had failed in stores. Compared to the rest of the series, it feels more like a generic fantasy book compared to the rest of the series. Deadhouse Gates feels much more fleshed out in comparison. Incidentally I started reading the series with the second book, and went back to GotM after loving Deadhouse Gates.
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Nov 5, 2012 12:08
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I'm about halfway through Deadhouse Gates right now and it's definitely a very different book that GotM. The writing is better overall but more than that it's like in GotM there were no limits on anything, every event was written to its most extreme. Whereas in this book there's a lid kept on events, so they're on a slow boil until they explode with even greater force. If that makes any sense. VVV I'll keep that in mind. One nice thing about reading this in Kindle form is how easy it is to do a search for characters or places, I'm sure it will come in handy very often. Mozi fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Nov 5, 2012 |
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Nov 5, 2012 12:16
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You have to consider the events in GotM are huge a huge climax to the first part of the Genbackian campaign and resonate through out the entire Book of the Fallen arc.
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Nov 5, 2012 12:20
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dishwasherlove posted:You have to consider the events in GotM are huge a huge climax to the first part of the Genbackian campaign and resonate through out the entire Book of the Fallen arc. Yeah, viewing GoTM as the final book in a trilogy that was never written actually seems to work quite well. Antinumeric fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Nov 5, 2012 |
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Nov 5, 2012 16:33
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I'm about halfway through Dust of Dreams at the moment - I've been reading this series on and off for almost a decade now, and it feels weird to be so close to the end. Toll the Hounds was probably my least favourite so far - large sections of the book read like they're narrated by Kruppe, and I get that part of Kruppe's schtick is that he's overly verbose, but I found the endless pontificating and philosophising very, very dull. It almost feels like Erikson needed to pad the book out a little, because holy poo poo does he waffle on. I honestly just ended up skimming a lot of it. Luckily DoD has been nowhere near as bad for it, and I'm loving the scenes with the Bonehunters preparing to go on their march into the Wastelands - particularly Pores and Kindly's little battle of wills they have going on. EDIT: Questions! (TTH spoilers, duh) 1. How long had Hood and Rake had their little 'agreement' going for? 2. So was Mother Dark the cold black centre underneath the Wagon in Dragnipur? I'm also a bit confused about how she ended up in there in the first place. 3. The Dying God - for the longest time I thought this was the Crippled God, and I really feel like Erikson didn't differentiate the two clearly enough. I read a few pages back in this thread, and someone said that it was the remnants of Silverfox and whoever Nightchill's lover was (I want to say Bellurdan?) Where do we actually learn this? Especially the Silverfox part. 4. Traveller is Dassem Ultor. Is he an ascendant / god? We don't ever really get a description of how old he looks, because surely if he was mortal he'd be pretty drat old and not able to go toe to toe with Anomander. 5. Where does it fit in, chronologically? I'm kind of assuming DoD and TTH are happening pretty much at the same time, is that too far off base? Bardeh fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Nov 5, 2012 |
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Nov 5, 2012 17:20
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Bardeh posted:3. The Dying God - for the longest time I thought this was the Crippled God, and I really feel like Erikson didn't differentiate the two clearly enough. I read a few pages back in this thread, and someone said that it was the remnants of Silverfox and whoever Nightchill's lover was (I want to say Bellurdan?) Where do we actually learn this? Especially the Silverfox part.  when you make the connection, imho). http://malazan.wikia.com/wiki/Kallor Silverfox is just a whole passle of people in one body, Bellurdan and his deific lover Nightchill, as well as Tattersail. I believe she's probably a shapeshifter as well, since she's a Soletaken, although I can't recall her changing into a fox in any of the books but it's been quite a while.. There was a flashback when when the three elder gods were punishing Kallor, which is a VERY roundabout lead-in to some of that, the rest may take a bit of re-reading to tie together. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Nov 6, 2012 |
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Nov 5, 2012 23:52
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Bardeh posted:
Dassem Ultor was a friend of Whiskeyjack's. We're talking ~50-100 years old IIRC, but anyone that's moderately powerful in this universe tends to live awhile, either due to an accumulation of power or arcane remedies. Kallor is absolutely ancient and as far as I know he retains his youth due to natural remedies. Dassem's on a whole other level at that point, though. Due to the sword he's carrying and his strength of will, I don't think that any collection of gods could have stopped him at that point. Tragic irony, on the other hand...
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Nov 5, 2012 23:59
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Bardeh posted:4. Traveller is Dassem Ultor. Is he an ascendant / god? We don't ever really get a description of how old he looks, because surely if he was mortal he'd be pretty drat old and not able to go toe to toe with Anomander.
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Nov 6, 2012 01:21
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IIRC there's a little snippet somewhere about how anyone who was anyone in the old empire went through a bunch of Denul or High Denul rituals to prevent them from aging.
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Nov 6, 2012 05:08
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NovemberMike posted:Kallor is absolutely ancient and as far as I know he retains his youth due to natural remedies. I thought he used some kind of magic candles? I haven't really seen it explained anywhere except for catching a snippet in MoI and in TtH.
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Nov 6, 2012 06:05
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pakman posted:I thought he used some kind of magic candles? I haven't really seen it explained anywhere except for catching a snippet in MoI and in TtH. Yeah, Kallor uses the (I'm not sure this is really a spoiler but whatever) century candles to keep himself alive and well.
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Nov 6, 2012 06:09
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Yeah, but IIRC they're explicitly supposed to be a natural/alchemical remedy in that universe. It's a wonder drug, but it's something that anybody with the recipe and materials could make. IIRC most of the other long lived people are either fortified through their use of warrens or they have ascended and the strength of their Ascension keeps them young. EDIT: Apparently living in the Deadhouse also gives you longevity. NovemberMike fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Nov 6, 2012 |
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Nov 6, 2012 15:47
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I thought Kallor lived forever because K'rul, Draconus and Nightchill cursed him to live forever? Also, Kallor is pretty badass and I'm never sure if I like the dude or not. He definitely becomes less evil as the series progresses.
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Nov 6, 2012 16:19
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polyfractal posted:I thought Kallor lived forever because K'rul, Draconus and Nightchill cursed him to live forever? Also, Kallor is pretty badass and I'm never sure if I like the dude or not. He definitely becomes less evil as the series progresses. I remember reading in TtH that he said he was cursed to failure, but I don't remember if it said who cursed him.
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Nov 6, 2012 16:54
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pakman posted:I remember reading in TtH that he said he was cursed to failure, but I don't remember if it said who cursed him. It was k'rul, draconus, and nightchill, like polyfractal said.
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Nov 6, 2012 17:59
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Yeah, cursed with eternal life, not eternal youth. Unlike most of the other true ascendants wandering around.
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Nov 6, 2012 21:05
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polyfractal posted:I thought Kallor lived forever because K'rul, Draconus and Nightchill cursed him to live forever? Also, Kallor is pretty badass and I'm never sure if I like the dude or not. He definitely becomes less evil as the series progresses.
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Nov 6, 2012 21:46
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Yeah, cursed with eternal life, not eternal youth. Unlike most of the other true ascendants wandering around. coyo7e posted:Immortality yes, immunity to aging, no. Oooh I see, that is a big difference 
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Nov 6, 2012 22:13
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It's no problem, Kallor spends those points somewhere besides the Ascendant advantage, and gets a Cursed By Elder Gods disadvantage on top of it, which is probably worth a fair number of points.
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Nov 7, 2012 03:34
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Erikson had to come up with something to keep his power levels in check. By the way, is there any documentation of when, exactly, Erikson stopped using the word "potsherds" in every paragraph? There has to be some kind of cutoff and not a gradual drop. Probably somewhere between books 2 and 3. Book 5 had maybe one use.
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Nov 7, 2012 03:51
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Fallom posted:Erikson had to come up with something to keep his power levels in check. Haha, I noticed that Erikson goes crazy about certain words. Each book has a set of words that he just can't use enough. And then you never see the word again in the rest of the series. I remember "pate" being a big favorite in one of the books.
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Nov 7, 2012 14:19
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polyfractal posted:Haha, I noticed that Erikson goes crazy about certain words. Each book has a set of words that he just can't use enough. And then you never see the word again in the rest of the series. I remember "pate" being a big favorite in one of the books. Hah, I've only read Abercrombie and Erikson in the fantasy genre, but it seems like about 75% of all the males are described by the pate as the very first thing.
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Nov 7, 2012 17:32
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While Kallor is pretty much one of my favourite characters in the series, I always liked people feeling more sympathetic to him after reading Toll The Hounds, which has a scene where he flashbacks to dashing his newborn children's heads against a wall in front of their mothers, literally moments after birth.
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Nov 7, 2012 21:52
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He just acts far too petty and vindictive for me. Becoming the Knight of Chains (I think that's the right one) seemed like the dumbest poo poo he'd ever want to do, although I guess the house of chains' main claim to joining is that you'll never get bossed around, his egomania would seem to me to be too great to even allow that.
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Nov 7, 2012 23:09
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Has anyone tried the audiobooks at all? I'm about to do a series of long car rides so I grabbed Forge of Darkness but it's so new that there aren't any reviews up. Reviews for GotM are pretty positive, but this one has a different narrator. I guess I'll see. Oh, and yes I've read all the other books. I'm not starting with Forge.
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Nov 7, 2012 23:38
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polyfractal posted:Haha, I noticed that Erikson goes crazy about certain words. Each book has a set of words that he just can't use enough. And then you never see the word again in the rest of the series. I remember "pate" being a big favorite in one of the books. There are certain words that he just seems to be weirdly fixated by, and tries to work in as many times as possible. Turgid, ochre, potsherds, pate, lassitude, provenance, probably a few more I'm forgetting.
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Nov 7, 2012 23:53
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Verdigris.
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Nov 7, 2012 23:56
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polyfractal posted:Haha, I noticed that Erikson goes crazy about certain words. Each book has a set of words that he just can't use enough. And then you never see the word again in the rest of the series. I remember "pate" being a big favorite in one of the books. I can strongly remember the keening, so much keening...
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Nov 8, 2012 02:05
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Must needs, convergence...
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Nov 8, 2012 02:35
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Ahh, time to break this badboy out again:
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Nov 8, 2012 02:40
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Detritus.
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Nov 8, 2012 02:57
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Skein.
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Nov 8, 2012 03:12
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The big thing with Kallor is that he's unambiguously a terrible person, but Erikson is able to show him being an rear end in a top hat (in a completely overkill "I kill babies" sort of way) and make you feel sympathetic towards him at the same time.
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Nov 8, 2012 03:44
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Darilian posted:I can strongly remember the keening, so much keening...
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Nov 8, 2012 12:15
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Great, this again.
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Nov 8, 2012 16:16
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the least weasel posted:Great, this again. At least it's not "apostrophes!  "
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Nov 8, 2012 16:17
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You know, that's one thing I've learned from listening to audiobooks - authors' overuse of certain words gets really, really annoying. I listened to the Dresden Files and I swear, if you took a shot every time Butcher made poor James Marsters say "shuddered" or "shivered" or describe women in borderline-creepy/pervy fashions, you'd manage to stay drunk for probably the entire 100+ hours of the audio series. For Erikson, I'm wondering if "flat" and/or "even" stares would be up there.
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Nov 8, 2012 18:57
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I just finished Toll the Hounds. All the previous books gripped me to no end and all of them have been the source of some sleepless nights where I stay up far too long to finish those last few pages, TtH included. However, I'm wondering, do the last two books return to the style of the earlier books? Because, although I like Kruppe, a Kruppian narrator went a bit too far for my tastes. And while I don't mind my authors waxing eloquent and verbose at times, I found TtH to be a bit too far off the deep end. But the main element that made TtH such a drag for me was that it is, largely, a book of failures. Until the last 50 pages or so, almost everyone fails at almost everything, and hardly anything is accomplished. It feels like people just mill about for the first 1000 pages or so, travel around a bit, talk a lot, get murdered, assassinated, hit in the head, stoned out of their minds on God-blood, then finally get off their collective arses during the last 50 pages, wherein all the challenges that had by the sheer force of the massive amount of preceding pages taken on an appearance of epic and insurmountable proportions, are all done away with in a few paragraphs each. It's like a very long, dreadfully slow meandering river that finally ends in a crashing waterfall. I had gotten used to the story up to the conclusion generally being more...grand, gripping, and fast-paced.
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Nov 9, 2012 03:30
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I think TtH was a bit of an experiment for Erikson, trying to relay Rake's tale like an epic mythological story from a larger than life storyteller. The last two don't really have that style.
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Nov 9, 2012 03:34
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