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I was reading a Dark Heresy sourcebook today which referenced a demo/scenario I hadn't heard of. I checked the OP, & it is not there, so if the OP wouldn't mind updating, here's the link to the downloadable .pdf: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/dark-heresy/pdf/edge-of-darkness-(web).pdf VVVV Edit: Thanks, for some reason the automatic parsing wasn't framing the VB code properly. Should work now. Kumo fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Nov 13, 2012 |
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Nov 13, 2012 03:33
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Kumo posted:I was reading a Dark Heresy sourcebook today which referenced a demo/scenario I hadn't heard of. I checked the OP, & it is not there, so if the OP wouldn't mind updating, here's the link to the downloadable .pdf: Fixed that link for you. The way you had it was sending to an error page.
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Nov 13, 2012 03:44
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Added. Also, if people weren't aware, Navis Primer is out.
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Nov 13, 2012 06:39
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Yeah, and the new warp rules are leathal (as my group found out last session) - What started out as a quick jump down to a freindly world to set up a trade route before moving on with the story ended up as a three and a half year (in game time, 2.5 hr real time) trip of hell, including a demonic incursion and corruption and insanity for all! We've house ruled that they are only going to be used in finding new routes now, to keep that interesting, and use the old rules for normal jumps. It was good for the viewers though!
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Nov 13, 2012 13:14
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Does anyone know where I can find an excel Deathwatch character sheet? The one linked in the second post does not have information from current Deathwatch books (the chapters from Honor the Chapter being the relevant missing information for myself), which makes it practically useless to me. I don't like printing sheets, since they waste so much ink. So I try to use electronic sheets that are modifiable. I've tried a few PDF versions of the character sheet in the back of the book, but they all scroll at a snail's pace which makes it annoying to try to get information mid session. I wanted to come ask about this first before I just go and create one for myself. Edit: Also, the excel combat cheat sheet in the second post is a dead link. Anyone have a copy of that lying around on their hard drives?
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Nov 13, 2012 23:01
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I've been thinking about modifying the rules concerning damage, Wounds, and healing in Dark Heresy in favor of the Players. While I like most of the system, the combat & damage systems are a little unforgiving. It's all too possible for an acolyte to start play with 10 or less Wounds, and receive critical damage and/or be killed on a lucky hit. Yes, that is part of the reason why Fate points are there; however they are a limited resource that can be quickly squandered or used up due to a series of bad rolls. Healing is another thing. There are few quick heals in the game outside of Psyker powers (which always run the risk of daemon summoning), and Medicae, which is not always accessible to everyone. I was thinking of one of the following: Allowing Players to begin with 1d10 + base Wounds instead of 1d5. Increasing PCs Toughness bonus for damage reduction by 2 or 3. Giving them better armor. Having a Medicae Servo Skull follow them around (maybe they discover it early on) with a few 1d5 heals built in to it. Your thoughts?
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Nov 14, 2012 17:25
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What are the rules in DH for using psychic powers in melee? As far as I can tell there aren't any. It came up where my psyker player wanted to use Force Missiles in melee. After some deliberation we decided to treat ranged psychic powers as basic weapons for the purposes of use in melee (i.e. you can't use them). What's a good house rule for this? Also, for any effect that says -10 to all tests (e.g. fatigue), there is no effect on the use of psychic powers. I've heard later games change how they're used to involve a WP test, but for DH, what would be a good rule to use?
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Nov 14, 2012 18:19
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Kumo posted:I've been thinking about modifying the rules concerning damage, Wounds, and healing in Dark Heresy in favor of the Players. Either make them Ascension level characters or play Deathwatch/Rogue Trader and re-skin the classes as Dark Heresy ones (or just play those games instead), low level DH is not a combat game.
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Nov 14, 2012 18:40
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Fellblade posted:Either make them Ascension level characters or play Deathwatch/Rogue Trader and re-skin the classes as Dark Heresy ones (or just play those games instead), low level DH is not a combat game. Playing Ascension & Deathwatch is not the type of game I want to play. I want the slow build of a progression as the players develop their skills as the left hand of the Empire, get better gear, and make their bones as acolytes- without having them ripped out of them by a Bloodletter, or bled out by a lucky hive ganger. Rogue Trader is okay, but still seems a little over-powered in comparison.
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Nov 15, 2012 18:40
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I had a long post about how a Bloodletter will straight up murder a low level DH party no matter how many extra wounds they get, but honestly you probably want to look at the active defense traits and skills and consider rejiggering those instead. Its all fine and well to give your players characters more capacity to sustain damage from things you throw at them, but its probably more empowering for the players to have a chance to just avoid getting hit in the first place.
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Nov 15, 2012 19:49
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Yea, my response was going to be 'don't throw a bloodletter at them, then'. I mean, if you want to do the whole progression thing, that's cool, it's what I'm doing with a party. But DH is a dangerous system. If you want to keep your party safe, then you can focus on more horror-style games that don't require them wading through hordes of cultists, or diplomatic/investigation games where they're trying to unwind secret pacts and alliances. It is also worth noting that Dark Heresy rewards strategic combat a lot more than other RPGs. If your players aren't using things like Overwatch and Suppressing Fire, they are missing out on really powerful ways to control an engagement. I also think you are underestimating the power of fate points. Are you refreshing them every session as suggested? I mean you can go ahead and give them more awesome equipment and triple their HP and give them a bunch of free heals, but ultimately what that does is condition them to play the game in a much more aggressive and reckless way than the system intends. It also means that you're basically going to have to keep them on that curve as they progress, or they will feel frustrated and disillusioned with their advancement.
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Nov 15, 2012 19:57
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So, my GM and I are looking for players, and I was wondering if anyone had any advice as to where I could advertise our game? By this I mean besides SA as I already posted a recruitment thread and posted in the megathread. Does anyone know of any good resources for finding players? Edit: Could anyone let me know if there's anything that might be missing from the OP that could attract players or anything that's there that might drive players away? (Recruitment Thread) NIV3K fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Nov 16, 2012 |
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Nov 16, 2012 02:47
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tl;dr. Try condensing it into a single paragraph at the top. Maybe use bullet points. Or Venn diagrams.
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Nov 16, 2012 04:43
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I'm running an adventure on an Exodite World near the Maelstrom. Any good enemy/encounter suggestions? It's a Deathwatch game.
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Nov 16, 2012 04:57
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You could have Slaneeshi aligned merc's hunting for Exodites to capture for chaos sacrifice/turning/soul eating. They could ambush/hunt your party mistaking them for exodites. Exodites controlling packs of native beasts could be an interesting encounter. Navigating a series of traps laid out by the exodites around a point of interest. You could have a mundane looking point of interest turn out to be a webway portal entrance, to the bad part of the webway that Chaos fucks. The players opening it could be a big exodite nono.
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Nov 16, 2012 07:11
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One of the Rogue Trader books is set on a Maiden World and has defending Wraithguards and Craftworld Eldar showing up to claim the place. If you want to make DH more survivable, start the party at Rank 4, make sure they have access to background and alternative rank material from The Inquisitor's Handbook, and let them know it's okay to optimize for combat. Also let them have better gear than the core book would imply. The stuff on incomes is groggy simulationist poo poo that is there for 'verisimilitude' and which the developers assumed would be ignored. (Also about half the income brackets can be bypassed just by taking a profession skill). Hand out the level of gear you think they need to have a decent shot at living. If there are going to be Bloodletters, let them have some Holy poo poo, even if its straight up divine intervention. Better yet, let their Priest get some Faith talents. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Nov 16, 2012 |
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Nov 16, 2012 09:03
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Hodgepodge posted:One of the Rogue Trader books is set on a Maiden World and has defending Wraithguards and Craftworld Eldar showing up to claim the place. Some of the later books have good options for increased-power DH characters. Book of Judgement and Daemon Hunter are good.
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Nov 16, 2012 13:53
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You should also make sure all your players understand the importance of suppressive fire and cover. We had a player who would solve every problem in every game by making a supercombatant badass and just rush enemies, and even he learned that as soon as the bullets start flying in DH you are supposed to go somewhere they have a hard time hitting and then try to outmaneuver the position.
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Nov 16, 2012 14:33
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If you want to make Dark Heresy easier all you have to do is allow Biomancy. My group lays Black Crusade combat rules over every game in the line because they're straight-up better; has Only War improved on them further, or are they about the same?
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Nov 16, 2012 17:11
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Low level DH is pretty much a P&P version of Rainbow Six. A few mercenaries with 20 in every stat managed to kill my entire numerically superior party of "stand on the square you started combat on and shoot/reload until out of targets" players by aggressively making use of cover and suppression to close in on pinned party members and hit them with fire bombs or point blank full auto bursts. The only lesson they took from it was that fire bombs do a lot of damage and should be their mainstay in combat 
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Nov 17, 2012 02:05
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So, I'm reading through the thread and I keep reading mentions of how Black Crusade characters can be built up to be incredibly powerful. I haven't done a full read of the book, but I was wondering if anyone could give me an example of how this is done. Just for some context, I'm not actually playing a Black Crusade game, I just find its method of advancement so different than Deathwatch that I'm kind of confused by these statements.
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Nov 19, 2012 00:28
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Because of the free-form nature of BC character advancement, players aren't confined in their choices when spending experience, and so it's incredibly easy to build an OP character. Throw in some Daemon Weapons and gifts and you can quite easily break the game. \/ Pretty much. MaliciousOnion fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 01:06
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MaliciousOnion posted:Because of the free-form nature of BC character advancement, players aren't confined in their choices when spending experience, and so it's incredibly easy to build an OP character. Throw in some Daemon Weapons and gifts and you can quite easily break the game.
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Nov 19, 2012 01:28
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kthegreat posted:So basically because instead of having to spend experience to get through Ranks you can just cherry pick the most relevant Skills and Talents that synergize well? Yea its a game that heavily encourages you to create insanely optimised super characters with a system that has a mess of sub-systems that makes combat a fairly trivial affair. The Minion system is ridiculous for example, the combat makes things far more brutal. Its a game that great fun making one off characters but has to enforce some real restraint to get anything in a long-term nature. The minion master is perhaps my favourite of the crazy builds as it allows you so solve virtually every problem on your own (bar some pure psyker stuff and maybe tech stuff if you dont take it) and your the most combat capable character in the game. Pharmaskittle posted:My group lays Black Crusade combat rules over every game in the line because they're straight-up better; has Only War improved on them further, or are they about the same? Also for anyone who isnt sure, don't listen to this nonsense. The Black Crusade rules work for an entirely different game than Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader setup. One is not inherently better than the other, they just enforce different styles of gameplay. Something as simple as a +10 to hit from single shots means that combat suddenly a far more viable and encouraged option rather than something you try to actively avoid. It might work for your group but it does not mean it is inherently better. kingcom fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 04:35
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kingcom posted:Also for anyone who isnt sure, don't listen to this nonsense. The Black Crusade rules work for an entirely different game than Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader setup. One is not inherently better than the other, they just enforce different styles of gameplay. Something as simple as a +10 to hit from single shots means that combat suddenly a far more viable and encouraged option rather than something you try to actively avoid. It might work for your group but it does not mean it is inherently better. It makes multiple attacks less dopey and gives you a reason to not just go full auto all day every day. Also having to take an action specifically to suppress an enemy instead of "well every time you get shot at, make a willpower check to not be useless (haha just kidding nobody wants to keep up with this bullshit)" is an improvement. These changes apply to bad guys and players across the board, so I only really see your point if it's that making combat less tedious and samey lends it greater appeal. It's still just as deadly for everyone involved. Understand that I'm talking about JUST combat rules, since the BC character minmaxing and more complicated (from what I understand; I haven't played one yet) psyker rules aren't ideal. Different strokes and I get your concern about making combat seem like a viable way to deal with problems, especially in certain kinds of games; I just don't think the BC rules do that when divorced from the way BC characters are built. ed: I guess you might have a problem with the 1d5 crit system as opposed to being able to potentially do a stupid amount of damage, and I could really go either way for preference on that one Pharmaskittle fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 06:42
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Pharmaskittle posted:It makes multiple attacks less dopey and gives you a reason to not just go full auto all day every day. Also having to take an action specifically to suppress an enemy instead of "well every time you get shot at, make a willpower check to not be useless (haha just kidding nobody wants to keep up with this bullshit)" is an improvement. Multiple attacks was your method to burn dodge rolls rather than deal damage now its just a full auto all day every day in melee. So everyone saves the dodge for the massive melee attack incoming. Also, there was plenty of reason to not use full auto, the cost of money for bigger weapon ammo/limited ammo itself, its better odds to take an accurate weapon and +30 for aim and shoot and massive single damage against high toughness opponents. Not to mention the collateral damage you tend to do but thats more an RP thing. Also Im not sure how to interpret your suppression fire comment, you need to take an action to pin the target in Dark Heresy, the suppressive fire action. Its willpower test to escape the pinning or +30 WP test if your not being shot at again. Also it may be applied across the board but end up with scenarios like the 90% to hit starting level Assassin (40 base BS, +10 for single shot +10 for aim, +20 for accurate hunting rifle, +10 for half range with 150m base because who has fights that far away at rank 1?). It makes the hunting rifle the most powerful weapon in the game by a long margin, everyone should be trying to get that asap (even moreso when you consider Man-Stopper Rounds), or a Trantor too. With the now +40 to hit base for anyone with an accurate weapon, everyone can become a crackshot so you end up in very wierd circumstances where the game becomes rocket tag rather than 'oh poo poo combat! Lets try and escape!' where everyone is gunned downed in the first round or two. Hell you get the psyker even more ridiculous as he can get 100% hit chance at rank 1 with Unnatural Aim every two turns(20 base BS +20 aim for two turns of aiming, +10 for single shot +20 accurate +30 unnatural aim +10 half range) he ends up being your go to sniper with zero training. 90% if you want the full 150m and be the across the map deadeye player. These are problems that existed before but they get even more exaggerated, and I've done virtually nothing outside of core rules (and errata). This is looking at one individual tiny rule that results in all engagements being a steamroll from the players side if they get first turn, which wasnt so much the case before. The crit system is very personal preference one, I think I dont like it but I've never actually used it outside of a Black Crusade ruleset so im not sure, all it does it delay the explosion of damage (with the stunned result) or result in pretty much nothing important happening. While I dont think the Black Crusade rules are unfun exactly just that given styles of play means they create just as many insane and silly situations as the Dark Heresy rules already do.
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Nov 19, 2012 11:04
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I just wanna throw something out here while there's some discussion of which set of rules is better for what. There's a very good Apocalypse World hack for Rogue Trader. The Google Docs are here. As my Traveller-based campaign testifies, it's a good system for the wildly over the top poo poo that goes on in the better 40K RPGs. For those who aren't up on the World series games, they're very intricate systems without being at all complex mechanically. They're very narrative and the GM gets lots of opportunities to make the PC's lives nasty, brutish, and short without ever rolling dice. https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B3c8gGVv-YzVZmVpXzBsMlQteVU/edit and http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?topic=4028.03
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Nov 19, 2012 11:48
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kingcom posted:
That does tie up with the importance of cover, if you only have your head and arms exposed then there's a good chance that shot will be hitting the wall you're behind of.
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Nov 19, 2012 13:03
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ZearothK posted:That does tie up with the importance of cover, if you only have your head and arms exposed then there's a good chance that shot will be hitting the wall you're behind of. So you take a -20 called shot and your on 70% to hit or Manstopper rounds + the potential 3d10 damage is going to be poking holes through walls fairly easily. It a hinderance but when your odds are that high, things get messy regardless. kingcom fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 15:25
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kingcom posted:Also for anyone who isnt sure, don't listen to this nonsense. The Black Crusade rules work for an entirely different game than Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader setup. One is not inherently better than the other, they just enforce different styles of gameplay. Something as simple as a +10 to hit from single shots means that combat suddenly a far more viable and encouraged option rather than something you try to actively avoid. It might work for your group but it does not mean it is inherently better. You are an idiot. +20 to full auto is completely hosed up, the +10 single +0 semi -10 Full Auto of Black Crusade is straight up better. It doesnt enforce different styles of gmaeplay, it just makes it so that full auto isnt always better than single shot in both damage and chance to hit.
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Nov 19, 2012 15:51
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kingcom posted:Also, there was plenty of reason to not use full auto, the cost of money for bigger weapon ammo/limited ammo itself, its better odds to take an accurate weapon and +30 for aim and shoot and massive single damage against high toughness opponents. Not to mention the collateral damage you tend to do but thats more an RP thing. Ahahahaha are you kidding me? The cost of a full auto weapon in Rogue Trader is nothing, you can get a best quality autocannon or a dece Bolter at character creation. And ammo is free. ooh, +30 to a single shot from a half aim! Wow, I'll bet that will really help you hit! Oh wait, an archmilitant is already gonna be stacking up bonuses to get over 100, so he's gonna hit no matter what, and degrees of success dont help with single shots. meanwhile your full auto dude is gonna get +2 degrees of success from the +20 bonus, meaning at least three hits, so that he's gonna either kill three mooks to the single shot assassin's one, or he's gonna obliterate a serious monster with anywhere between 3 and 11 hits, which may well have Felling or something. yep, there's definitely a reason to not use a heavy bolter all the time for every purpose! Meanwhile that -10 means that in tough positions when you absolutely can't miss, you might hesitate to spray and pray. whereas before, full auto actually prevented collateral damage because the +20 gave you a much better chance to not gently caress up. the rules as written were terrible. they didn't help you avoid combat or anything, they didnt add nuance, they just made the heavy bolter or autocannon the skeleton key to all combat.
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Nov 19, 2012 15:59
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Liesmith posted:You are an idiot. +20 to full auto is completely hosed up, the +10 single +0 semi -10 Full Auto of Black Crusade is straight up better. It doesnt enforce different styles of gmaeplay, it just makes it so that full auto isnt always better than single shot in both damage and chance to hit. Do you fight in nothing but open box rooms where everyone a human and just standing around? Full auto cant called shot, so they lose their effectiveness against cover, they have shorter ranges, they dont benefit from sights, they burn through ammo. Currently accurate weapons give you a +30 to hit (+40 for half range) versus the +20 for full auto, it is only more useful when your dealing with people with minimal armour and your using early game equipment like an autogun. Everything beyond that is either super pricy for an acolyte to be burst regularly or the gun itself is expensive. Looking at purely the low tier weapons the full auto does more damage against low TB opponents but as you face higher TB hostiles your rapidly decreasing the damage while an accurate weapon steadily does more. Liesmith posted:Rogue Trader Remember that big paragraph I wrote about Rogue Trader? Yea I remember it too, all those examples I used from that game. Its a good thing I didnt use an example from a completely different game to illitrate my point that different systems do different things to the rules. kingcom fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 16:10
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kingcom posted:Also for anyone who isnt sure, don't listen to this nonsense. The Black Crusade rules work for an entirely different game than Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader setup. When you say "the dark heresy and rogue trader setup" you invite people to use examples from both Dark Heresy AND Rogue Trader to demonstrate that you are a retard idiot. HTH
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Nov 19, 2012 16:18
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Liesmith posted:When you say "the dark heresy and rogue trader setup" you invite people to use examples from both Dark Heresy AND Rogue Trader to demonstrate that you are a retard idiot. HTH And then I starting talking about how a specific rule creates a specific situation in a specific system to highlight that each system treats a ruleset differently. Rather I could have also mentioned Deathwatch along with Rogue Trader and Dark Heresy because they all essentially share the same system before the change to Black Crusade's system. You have managed to highlight how different again the Rogue Trader system is to Dark Heresy again, good job. You can easily imply things like this by examining what I wrote. For example, the discussion of ammunition costs is obviously not something meaningful with regards to Rogue Trader, so I can understand your confusion by thinking I address everything when Im discussing an issue that only appears in one game system. A game system known for severely limiting a player's financial reserves. kingcom fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 16:20
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kingcom posted:Do you fight in nothing but open box rooms where everyone a human and just standing around? Full auto cant called shot, so they lose their effectiveness against cover, they have shorter ranges, they dont benefit from sights, they burn through ammo. Currently accurate weapons give you a +30 to hit (+40 for half range) versus the +20 for full auto, it is only more useful when your dealing with people with minimal armour and your using early game equipment like an autogun. Everything beyond that is either super pricy for an acolyte to be burst regularly or the gun itself is expensive. Looking at purely the low tier weapons the full auto does more damage against low TB opponents but as you face higher TB hostiles your rapidly decreasing the damage while an accurate weapon steadily does more. Wrong. Full auto gives you +30 at half range, and I will see your accurate and raise you motion detector, an inexpensive weapon upgrade that puts both my full auto and your single shot at +40. Except that in my case, that means I get +5 hits, which I can spread out to all the enemies in the line of fire, whereas in your case, you get one hit. which probably gets dodged. way to go, champ. also why are you tolkien about early game equipment? What early game acolyte has an accurate weapon? They have some bullshit stubber. you say yourself that full auto works better against poorly armored enemies, like, for example, everyone a tier one acolyte will face. By lategame, they aren't worried about the cost of their heavy bolter or hellgun, which is going to chew through anything you throw at them much faster than your vindicare assassin's rifle, because it hits over and over, has high pen, and IS MORE LIKELY TO HIT AT ALL.
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Nov 19, 2012 16:28
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Here's a hint: Dark Heresy's rules are completely and utterly hosed, and I'm not just talking about Psykers. Black Crusade's Zealous Hatred and combat rules avoid (launch) Deathwatch-style critfishing with full auto weapons. Also "burning the dodge rolls" isn't as much of an issue when Vindicare Assassins don't exist as PCs. Because gently caress Vindicares. "I roll to dodge the consequences of hitting on the Inquisitor's wife" was funny the first time, but gets old really, really fast. EDIT: I mean Vindicare Assassin is a shooty class with a super special set of Vindicare gear that is literally worse than using a standard-issue heavy bolter. And before you bitch about ~ammo costs~, Ascension doesn't give a gently caress. Black Crusade doesn't give a gently caress, Rogue Trader doesn't give a gently caress, and Deathwatch gives negative fucks. Mikael Kreoss fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 16:30
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Mikael Kreoss posted:Here's a hint: Dark Heresy's rules are completely and utterly hosed, and I'm not just talking about Psykers. Black Crusade's Zealous Hatred and combat rules avoid (launch) Deathwatch-style critfishing with full auto weapons. Also "burning the dodge rolls" isn't as much of an issue when Vindicare Assassins don't exist as PCs. Because gently caress Vindicares. Man I forgot to even mention righteous fury. When your first response is to fire your heavy bolter at a dude, you are gonna RF at least once EVERY SESH. By midgame you are getting a righteous fury every time you shoot at all. Maybe stacking them into the sky. Meanwhile your assassin with his accurate weapon is gonna get a righteous fury against one mook one time, and thats it for this adventure.
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Nov 19, 2012 16:34
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Mikael Kreoss posted:EDIT: I mean Vindicare Assassin is a shooty class with a super special set of Vindicare gear that is literally worse than using a standard-issue heavy bolter. And before you bitch about ~ammo costs~, Ascension doesn't give a gently caress. Black Crusade doesn't give a gently caress, Rogue Trader doesn't give a gently caress, and Deathwatch gives negative fucks. Even Dark Heresy doesn't give a gently caress. If you have a Rosette and can't parlay that poo poo into serious dough then you deserve everything that is coming to you.
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Nov 19, 2012 16:35
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Liesmith posted:Even Dark Heresy doesn't give a gently caress. If you have a Rosette and can't parlay that poo poo into serious dough then you deserve everything that is coming to you. True enough. The others just literally have no rules for gently caress-giving at all, would probably be the best way to put it.
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Nov 19, 2012 16:36
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kingcom posted:Hell you get the psyker even more ridiculous as he can get 100% hit chance at rank 1 with Unnatural Aim every two turns(20 base BS +20 aim for two turns of aiming, +10 for single shot +20 accurate +30 unnatural aim +10 half range) This is a complete aside from calling you a retard but a very common houserule is that both penalties and bonuses are capped at +/-60. I think it's a really good idea for obvious reasons. It makes the game a lot less bullshit imo.
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Nov 19, 2012 16:39
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