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jivjov posted:I know you meant Ghost Story, but for a brief moment I thought you already had Cold Days and were dropping major untagged spoilers on us. Haha whoops. Yeah, meant Ghost Story Cold Days cannot come soon enough
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Nov 14, 2012 19:26
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pseudonordic posted:The quest to collect all hardcover continues! Apparently some wholesaler just flooded the market for some of the older books. Summer Knight had been $100+ per used copy previously but is now on Amazon for $8 + S&H for a *NEW* copy. Hooray! ... must not drop $150+ on hardcovers.
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Nov 14, 2012 19:42
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daggerdragon posted:... must not drop $150+ on hardcovers. I only have a few left to get.... 
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Nov 14, 2012 19:46
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pseudonordic posted:I only have a few left to get.... Hmph. I can only get reasonable prices for 2, 4, and 9-12. edit: Ended up buying the 4 Omnibuses, 10-12, and I've got a pre-order on 14. Can't get a decent price on 13, unfortunately. I'll wait. daggerdragon fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Nov 14, 2012 |
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Nov 14, 2012 19:51
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I think some of you guys are missing the point. Of course Harry is slightly reverted during this sequence. He is freaking terrified that he's going to lose who he is, so he's clinging to old habits as hard as he can. "I'm not that guy." "Neither was he." Oh. poo poo. The line with the Spiderman reference doesn't feel like the usual bluster, it feels like worried babbling. "I can't keep my mouth shut that's me, eheh..." Sarissa's the only person he can safely express any kind of worry too, given the nature of Arctis Tor. He can mouth off to Sith, but he cannot show weakness. The last line in the chapter refers to the party as the first day in a prison yard. In true hero fashion I think Harry is going to posture a bit, "I don't want any trouble" a bit, and probably start a fight- but he's going to be extremely careful around Mab. His treatment of Cat Sith is pretty drat respectful for Dresden. He tests the boundaries of what Sith will do given their (nominal) master/servant relationship but that's it. Reminds me of how he treated Eldest Gruff a bit. Also note that Wyld and Summer delegations will be present. Dresden's going to look for familiar (if not friendly) faces and try to gravitate over, and I think he's going to find those relationships (especially for Summer) are damaged beyond repair or completely changed. Re: Loyd Slate... I haven't read Summer Knight in a while but that scene with Maeve shooting him up with drugs is a lot more unsettling now.
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Nov 14, 2012 20:07
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Or, other possibility, it's possible Mab has ordered her to seduce Harry and bear his child, and if she fails she'll be punished. So Harry's nice gesture might be incredi-cruel.. Well, Winter already has tried to con Harry out of a kid. Maeve tried to fix him up with Jenny Greenteeth. A half-fae child of one of the most naturally powerful wizards on the planet would be a real win for them.
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Nov 14, 2012 20:32
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Kloaked00 posted:Cold Days cannot come soon enough I'm actually wondering if I can con some guy at chapters into breaking street date. I want to read it when I'm on holiday!
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Nov 14, 2012 21:23
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Ice Phisherman posted:So my roommate is nearly incapable of reading due to his dyslexia and I felt sad because I know he would like the series if I got him started. So eventually he overcame his initially steep resistance after I gave him some audiobooks. All of the books of the series are on his iPod now. He has burned through two books in five days and is half way through his third. Sounds like I'm in basically the same boat as your roommate (only the series I first plowed through was Discworld not Dresden). You should consider gifting him an audible account or something. I've never not had something to "read" since I signed up and audibles "we think you might like ..." usually is pretty accurate after you have wish listed a dozen books or so.
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Nov 14, 2012 21:31
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404GoonNotFound posted:So... that Cold Days preview. I have nothing real to base it on, but I cannot shake the idea that she's Lloyd Slate's daughter.
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Nov 14, 2012 22:13
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Kloaked00 posted:So I re-read Ghost Story and I caught a few things I had missed before. In particular, when Harry is retelling his first encounter with Lea, they talk about how faeries never give anything without collecting something because of the important of balance. He mentions Bianca's party and how Amoracchius was traded for that obsidian knife, and she responds Yep. If you read between the lines, you may notice that the conversation about faeries and gifts has come up a few times here or there. It's possible to connect the dots to realize that if Lea gave Amoracchius away, the knife she given in return was of equal power. Think about that. Mab has it now. She also has Medea's Bodkin, a completely different artifact of power that's probably on the same level. Even without those, she's one of the biggest badasses on the planet. Adding the various artifacts pushes her up a few notches. As was said in an earlier book, there's a reason that when Mab said "Sit down and sign my accords" that everyone did so. She'd be unstoppable if she wasn't perfectly countered by Titania. Titania, who already wanted Harry's head before he became the Winter Knight for killing her daughter. Mab is pissed and half-crazy. Tits is enraged and wants Harry dead. Harry's stuck in the middle. He's hosed in so many ways.
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Nov 14, 2012 23:15
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ConfusedUs posted:Yep. If you read between the lines, you may notice that the conversation about faeries and gifts has come up a few times here or there. It's possible to connect the dots to realize that if Lea gave Amoracchius away, the knife she given in return was of equal power. Think about that. Yeah, this was pretty explicitly stated by Harry during the conversation with Lea while he was chilling in his grave in Ghost Story. I'm wondering what that's doing to the balance between the courts, since Titania didn't get a shiny new bodkin to balance the scales. I just spent 30$ on my ticket to the Butcher signing, which comes with a copy of Cold Days... 13 more days. 13 more days...
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Nov 14, 2012 23:22
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ConfusedUs posted:Yep. If you read between the lines, you may notice that the conversation about faeries and gifts has come up a few times here or there. It's possible to connect the dots to realize that if Lea gave Amoracchius away, the knife she given in return was of equal power. Think about that. If I had to guess, I would go along the lines of the dagger being something like the one that did in Julius Caesar. That would seem to fit with the little we know of events.
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Nov 14, 2012 23:58
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The other thing to think about with that dagger is that if having it opened up Lea to some sort of outside influence, and if Mab has it now, is Mab being influenced by whatever was influencing Lea through the dagger? That could be one explanation for her "erraticness" that has everyone so worried. Also, the Black Council has their fingers in that pie somewhere too, with Cowl and Kumori as some of Bianca's sorcery teachers, and the attack on Arctis Tor.
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Nov 15, 2012 02:06
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psuedonordic posted:The quest to collect all hardcover continues! Apparently some wholesaler just flooded the market for some of the older books. Summer Knight had been $100+ per used copy previously but is now on Amazon for $8 + S&H for a *NEW* copy. Hooray! daggerdragon posted:Hmph. I can only get reasonable prices for 2, 4, and 9-12. Fuckin' amateurs.  The Roc editions of Storm Front and Grave Peril are signed. All of the SubPress editions are signed (obviously). The LE of Backup is one of the tiny books hiding between Side Jobs and Prince of Thorns; my copy is signed by Mike Mignola as well. Of the Roc editions, the only one I paid more than cover price for was Fool Moon; I paid significantly more there, but if you average all the non-LE books out (including the Alera ones), I've probably paid right at cover price for everything. I don't have the first two Alera books because, frankly, I don't care about Alera; I pick them up when I see then for less than ten bucks each and just haven't run across the first two yet. 
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Nov 15, 2012 02:20
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Ornamented Death posted:Fuckin' amateurs. NEEEEEEEEEEEEERD
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Nov 15, 2012 02:29
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Mr.48 posted:NEEEEEEEEEEEEERD I prefer to think of myself as the 1% (of Dresden Files collectors). I'm not, those are numbered SubPress editions, not lettered 
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Nov 15, 2012 02:30
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TimNeilson posted:The other thing to think about with that dagger is that if having it opened up Lea to some sort of outside influence, and if Mab has it now, is Mab being influenced by whatever was influencing Lea through the dagger? That could be one explanation for her "erraticness" that has everyone so worried. Also, the Black Council has their fingers in that pie somewhere too, with Cowl and Kumori as some of Bianca's sorcery teachers, and the attack on Arctis Tor. This is basically what I've been thinking. Plus, the Fae, for all their treachery, don't change much, do they? I mean, Mab has been Mab forever, the Fae are bound to their natures and their natures do not change. But SOMETHING got to Aurora to get her to go full retard like that. The only thing I can think of, offhand, is Elaine - she's the one non-Fae factor in that whole inner circle of crazy. And she was involved in an attempt to stop a wizard genocide. Say what you like about the Black Council, their actions so far have caused strife among the purely magical creatures. Their actions against the White Council have been more along the line of decapitation of leadership; perhaps, and I'm guessing here, so that one of them can step into place. Even Turn Coat, it seemed like Peabody's plan was more "stick my own, more easily controlled guy onto the White Council" rather than "muahahahah KILL EVERYONE." Sure, it turned into Kill Everyone, but that's because Harry got involved and messed up his (already failing) plan bad. I'm not ruling out that they've got a "get all the non-mortals to kill each other" plan going. Destabilizing Mab, and her accords, would open the floodgates for a creepy war that hasn't happened for Millennia. Plus, who says the Black Council is a single entity? Mavra's got to be Black Court. Think about it - she learns about the Word of Kemmler through Cowl and the Black Council, and decides to run her own play against them to get her own hands on it. It makes sense if she doesn't trust the Black Council entirely. The Black Council seems to be playing a game of "tick off everybody" and I'm wondering what patsy they're going to leave all the evidence pointing towards when the hammers come down. Fake Edit: Duh, self, it'll be Dresden. Stupid self. VanSandman fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Nov 15, 2012 |
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Nov 15, 2012 04:55
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NinjaDebugger posted:If I had to guess, I would go along the lines of the dagger being something like the one that did in Julius Caesar. That would seem to fit with the little we know of events. I thought the Athame was Medea's Bodkin. I mean Medea was betrayed by the man she loved and went insane and murdered her two children by him. Something like that could corrupt the item of power used to do it (as I believe Medea was also often depicted as a witch). The dagger of a mad woman driving someone else insane seems plausible.
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Nov 15, 2012 05:37
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Ornamented Death posted:Fuckin' amateurs. King of Thorns isn't a good stand in for Dresden so this might not be the best place to discuss it but how did you like that book? Better then Prince of Thorns?
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Nov 15, 2012 05:43
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Clinton1011 posted:King of Thorns isn't a good stand in for Dresden so this might not be the best place to discuss it but how did you like that book? Better then Prince of Thorns? Your phrasing seems to imply you didn't think Prince of Thorns was that good. I thought it was excellent, and King of Thorns is leaps and bounds better. It's actually kind of astounding when you look at it as part of fantasy as a whole; a great many writers suffer from a pretty bad sophomore slump (Jim Butcher included, to keep this at least a tiny bit relevant), but Lawrence ups his game to an absurd degree. That wait for Emperor of Thorns is maddening.
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Nov 15, 2012 06:06
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Ornamented Death posted:Your phrasing seems to imply you didn't think Prince of Thorns was that good. I thought it was excellent, and King of Thorns is leaps and bounds better. It's actually kind of astounding when you look at it as part of fantasy as a whole; a great many writers suffer from a pretty bad sophomore slump (Jim Butcher included, to keep this at least a tiny bit relevant), but Lawrence ups his game to an absurd degree. That wait for Emperor of Thorns is maddening. Read in the Amazon blurb that the protagonist is 15. Sounds like a recipe for angsty disaster.
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Nov 15, 2012 06:31
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Mr.48 posted:Read in the Amazon blurb that the protagonist is 15. Sounds like a recipe for angsty disaster. It's about as far from that as it's possible to get. It's essentially Joe Abercrombie dialed up to 11, but somehow Lawrence keeps it from becoming ridiculous. But this is getting really off-topic, so let's take it to the general Sci-Fi/Fantasy thread if anyone wants to keep discussing Jorg's (mis)adventures. Ornamented Death fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Nov 15, 2012 |
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Nov 15, 2012 06:34
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Just throwing this out there, just in case I'm not the only one that noticed this- Mab's deal was such: Harry completes three tasks for her, and he's free. Right? He completes two. Mab asks him to be the Winter Knight many times. He eventually says yes. Doesn't that count? She asks him to be the Knight, he complies, BAM, task #3 complete. Given that the terms of the deal included being "free of Sidhe affairs," doesn't he technically have a get-out-free card as soon as he remembers that detail? I wouldn't put it past Mab (in her craziness) to completely ignore the deal until it's brought up.
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Nov 15, 2012 08:37
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apostateCourier posted:Just throwing this out there, just in case I'm not the only one that noticed this- Fairly sure that the knighthood agreement specifically voided the previous deal.
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Nov 15, 2012 09:48
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apostateCourier posted:Just throwing this out there, just in case I'm not the only one that noticed this- The Faerie way to interpret that is that the task is not "agreeing to be the winter knight" but "being the winter knight." To fulfill the final task and be free of Sidhe affairs he needs to finish "being the winter knight." Given what we've seen of Harry's problem solving skills, I imagine that will come about through the death of Mab* and the ascent to power of a new winter queen. *note how I specifically phrased that not to imply that Harry kills Mab under his own power. She's too powerful and chaotic for that.
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Nov 15, 2012 10:08
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reflir posted:The Faerie way to interpret that is that the task is not "agreeing to be the winter knight" but "being the winter knight." To fulfill the final task and be free of Sidhe affairs he needs to finish "being the winter knight." Given what we've seen of Harry's problem solving skills, I imagine that will come about through the death of Mab* and the ascent to power of a new winter queen. It would be- but the way the final Knighthood negotiation was worded, "you want me to become the winter knight," and Mab's acceptance of that wording, seems to open the loophole I mentioned. Hell, the fact that she tells him to kill Slate would technically make that a task. When dealing with the Sidhe, it's all about literal interpretations. On an alternate note, I can't find the bit that might negate the whole deal.
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Nov 15, 2012 11:37
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If you want to go literal it's even easier. "Winter Knight" is an office, a concept, a function, a role. Harry is a human being. Human beings are not the sort of things that can be concepts. Therefore, by tasking him to become something he cannot be she has uttered a nonsense and Harry is free anyway because she has 'wasted her wish,' so to speak. The problem with fantasy authors is that they are generally not philosophers.
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Nov 15, 2012 11:46
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reflir posted:If you want to go literal it's even easier. "Winter Knight" is an office, a concept, a function, a role. Harry is a human being. Human beings are not the sort of things that can be concepts. Therefore, by tasking him to become something he cannot be she has uttered a nonsense and Harry is free anyway because she has 'wasted her wish,' so to speak. And the problem with philosophers is that they do not write the Dresden files...
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Nov 15, 2012 13:59
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apostateCourier posted:Just throwing this out there, just in case I'm not the only one that noticed this- I think, at best, he's free of the original deal he made when he was a kid. The more recent bargain (power to save Maggie in exchange for taking the office of the Winter Knight) was a completely new deal, so it's reasonable that it wouldn't be affected by that, even given the 'free of Sidhe influence' line. Especially since he did, contrary to his own word, try to weasel out of it by killing himself (and I don't think 'But I didn't know I had set up my own assassination when I made the promise not to' counts). On that subject, I'm really curious about the bargain his mother made (presumably with Lea), one which has endured beyond her death, which has compelled Lea (and Mab, while she was out of commission) to protect Harry, and even to take on his duties while he was busy being dead. How far does that go? Is it possible that the reason that Mab has been so keen to get/keep Harry under her thumb is that she owes him, or his mother, something huge? (Also I wonder, if Lea had to take on Harry's training of Molly during his absence, what else she had to do? Mostly I'm finding the idea of her as a substitute Warden, to the increasing protests of the White Council, to be hilarious.)
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Nov 15, 2012 16:04
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Ornamented Death posted:Your phrasing seems to imply you didn't think Prince of Thorns was that good. I thought it was excellent, and King of Thorns is leaps and bounds better. It's actually kind of astounding when you look at it as part of fantasy as a whole; a great many writers suffer from a pretty bad sophomore slump (Jim Butcher included, to keep this at least a tiny bit relevant), but Lawrence ups his game to an absurd degree. That wait for Emperor of Thorns is maddening. My big problem with the Prince of Thorns and King of Thorns books was that they are quite simply a well written story about a rapist. In the first 10 pages of book 1 our hero rapes and murders two women. Then he continues to rape through the books, talking about how much fun it is. A LOT. His big growth as a character, which the author insists means he's becoming a good person we should sympathize with, is that there is a woman in the story he does not rape. tl;dr - If you like preternaturally gifted 14 year old shitbags raping two women and lighting them on fire as your introduction to their character? Go for it. edit - it feels like the character that should have been beheaded by the main character goes on to be the self insert adolescent wish fulfillment character. It's a scary disconnect and freaks me out a bit. DJ_Ferret fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Nov 15, 2012 |
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Nov 15, 2012 17:56
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DJ_Ferret posted:My big problem with the Prince of Thorns and King of Thorns books was that they are quite simply a well written story about a rapist. Dresden isn't really free from this either considering we've got Thomas was a reoccuring character and even when while he was in "sympathetic trying really hard" mode he raped a woman to death. There's something about fantasy authors which makes them think that "I rape women" can somehow be redeemed to "Well, maybe he's not THAT bad."
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Nov 15, 2012 19:10
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docbeard posted:
While that would indeed be hilarious, I doubt she did it because Harry didn't want to be a Warden in the first place. Quick reminder, you don't have to spoil things that have already been published, or speculation on those things. I think the bigger question is, what did Harry's mom trade to Lea in order to get Dresden that protection?
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Nov 15, 2012 19:10
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ImpAtom posted:Dresden isn't really free from this either considering we've got Thomas was a reoccuring character and even when while he was in "sympathetic trying really hard" mode he raped a woman to death. Yes, and I'm not going to defend that. It's creepy as gently caress and makes Thomas a very difficult character to read. But there's a difference between something we are SUPPOSED to revile and something being glorified and defended by the author at every opportunity. I don't want to argue this any more or derail, I just thought I'd throw out that warning for people looking for more books to read.
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Nov 15, 2012 19:17
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VanSandman posted:I think the bigger question is, what did Harry's mom trade to Lea in order to get Dresden that protection? Jethro, the third Dresden brother. He was a bit... different.
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Nov 16, 2012 01:30
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ImpAtom posted:Dresden isn't really free from this either considering we've got Thomas was a reoccuring character and even when while he was in "sympathetic trying really hard" mode he raped a woman to death. I kinda think that what helps with Thomas is most of his rapey actions are off screen and nearly the whole cast (at least the "good guys") is aware he is doing something awful when he feeds. I also think that Thomas is basically the prefect example for why all the white court is so dangerous. He's likable ... until he rapes someone to death. And I kinda have always thought of him in those terms. And like DJ Ferret said, when the author glorifies it is when things get really really uncomfortable. Edit: Oh and a year ago I did all those Dresden character sketches. I've been giving them to Dresden fans who ask me about it for free. But now that they are about a year old here is a pdf I'm letting anyone download http://www.sorcery101.net/ddd1.pdf KellHound fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Nov 16, 2012 |
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Nov 16, 2012 01:54
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KellHound posted:Oh and a year ago I did all those Dresden character sketches. I've been giving them to Dresden fans who ask me about it for free. But now that they are about a year old here is a pdf I'm letting anyone download http://www.sorcery101.net/ddd1.pdf Just looked through this again and I still giggled at the vampire/crusader pic of Harry and Michael. 
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Nov 16, 2012 02:25
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KellHound posted:And like DJ Ferret said, when the author glorifies it is when things get really really uncomfortable. Just as a heads up, I don't think DJ Ferret actually read the books because he gets everything beyond what happens in the first chapter wrong. Jorg is very upfront about how horrible everything he and his men are doing is; no one has any delusions of nobility or honor, they know they are villains of the worst sort. The closest anyone comes to glorifying anything is when people talk about Jorg's amazing victories, but they're also quick to point out that they always come at huge cost. Nor have I ever actually seen an interview wherein Mark Lawrence says we should sympathize with Jorg; I've seen a lot of reviews that complain that we're supposed to sympathize with a monster, but nothing from the author's mouth. I'm not saying such an interview doesn't exist, simply that I haven't seen it and would welcome a link to such because it would definitely alter my opinion of Lawrence. Ornamented Death fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Nov 16, 2012 |
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Nov 16, 2012 02:33
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404GoonNotFound posted:Jethro, the third Dresden brother. He was a bit... different. Dresden didn't have a third brother, he had a sister named Sarissa Dresden. The preview chapters are just like the weird early bits of Star Wars 
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Nov 16, 2012 02:40
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Ornamented Death posted:Just as a heads up, I don't think DJ Ferret actually read the books because he gets everything beyond what happens in the first chapter wrong. Jorg, and by extension Lawrence, are very upfront about how horrible everything the characters are doing is; no one has any delusions of nobility or honor, they know they are villains of the worst sort. Ah, well rape in general is a pretty touchy area and is often used as lazy way to up the stakes/show how evil someone is. I just commented on Thomas thing cause I got my editor into reading the Dresden Files (she just finished Blood Rites). We had a long talk about the Dresden Files, feminism related to the Dresden Files, Murphy, and Thomas. So it Thomas related to rape in urban fantasy was something at the forefront of my thoughts.
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Nov 16, 2012 02:44
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KellHound posted:Ah, well rape in general is a pretty touchy area and is often used as lazy way to up the stakes/show how evil someone is. I just commented on Thomas thing cause I got my editor into reading the Dresden Files (she just finished Blood Rites). We had a long talk about the Dresden Files, feminism related to the Dresden Files, Murphy, and Thomas. So it Thomas related to rape in urban fantasy was something at the forefront of my thoughts. Oh I agree, and I'm certainly not trying to argue otherwise. My main issue is that Lawrence gets hit with a lot of poo poo from various corners of the internet and in nearly every case it's the echo chamber of a reviewer that didn't read beyond the first chapter or two of Prince and assumes everything remains the same, and anyone that tries to convince them otherwise is a rape defender.
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Nov 16, 2012 02:50
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