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JazzFlight posted:Meh, he could have killed himself at a lot of times in ADWD to end it all. I don't care a bit for him. Ahem, Symon the Singer brought by Bronn to the bowl of brown, murdering Shae, murdering his father (though that's the most sympathetic of his malevolent decisions). If bad acts make someone unsympathetic, he hadn't been sympathetic for ten years.
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Nov 3, 2012 19:17
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Fearless posted:I still don't feel bad for Cersei. Cersai is a monster, but if you look at her whole backstory, you realize that the world she lives in really didn't give her much of a choice; she could be a monster or she could be a slab of meat dragged around by her husband, like say, Fat Walda, except she'd be aware of that fact. If she'd had some sort of opportunity to be better and chosen to be worse, she'd have no sympathy at all, but as is? This is really made clear in the flashback where her possible marriage to Rhaegar was called off because of head games between her father and mad king Aerys, after she'd had her head filled with promises she'd be his wife, leaving her to feel like she wasn't good enough or spoiled in some way. She had no choice or voice in the matter; she was pushed around and was cursed to have enough IQ to eventually see the hands. The world made her as much as she did, ergo I do think she deserves some sympathy. Except for the incest. That's ALL her.
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Nov 8, 2012 05:21
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Cornwind Evil posted:Cersai is a monster, but if you look at her whole backstory, you realize that the world she lives in really didn't give her much of a choice; she could be a monster or she could be a slab of meat dragged around by her husband, like say, Fat Walda, except she'd be aware of that fact. If she'd had some sort of opportunity to be better and chosen to be worse, she'd have no sympathy at all, but as is? This is really made clear in the flashback where her possible marriage to Rhaegar was called off because of head games between her father and mad king Aerys, after she'd had her head filled with promises she'd be his wife, leaving her to feel like she wasn't good enough or spoiled in some way. She had no choice or voice in the matter; she was pushed around and was cursed to have enough IQ to eventually see the hands. The world made her as much as she did, ergo I do think she deserves some sympathy. And also murdering, while a child, her best friend because of the prophecy a fortune teller told them
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Nov 8, 2012 05:26
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whowhatwhere posted:And also murdering, while a child, her best friend because of the prophecy a fortune teller told them
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Nov 8, 2012 05:33
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whowhatwhere posted:And also murdering, while a child, her best friend because of the prophecy a fortune teller told them Wait, what? In which book was that indicated? I might have missed it, like the subtle hinting of Renly and Loras' relationship in the first two books; it took the TV Series being more explicit for me to clue in on that.. Can I get a specific quote? Because if that's true, yeah, gently caress her. She's an absolute monster and deserves everything she's gotten and more. It's one thing to be shaped by cruel circumstances, it's another to murder a child and friend AS a child, for ANY reason. Once you do that, you're damned.
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Nov 10, 2012 04:12
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Cornwind Evil posted:Wait, what? In which book was that indicated? I might have missed it, like the subtle hinting of Renly and Loras' relationship in the first two books; it took the TV Series being more explicit for me to clue in on that.. Can I get a specific quote? AFFC. It's probably a bit more subtle than Renly and Loras, if only because there aren't as many opportunities to pick up on it.
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Nov 10, 2012 04:20
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Cersei is fascinating because her response to living in such a misogynistic, patriarchal culture is to internalize everything it throws at her. She loving hates that she was born female and clearly despises all other women. To be honest, I feel like that's a much more realistic response to living in a society that is constantly making GBS threads on you than rejecting what it tells you and rebelling against it. I really appreciate how GRRM created a character like Cersei (and now that I think about it, Catelyn) while also including more traditional postmodern female characters like Asha and Arya.
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Nov 10, 2012 09:08
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So I just finished A Game of Thrones, being my first incursion into the awesome, awesome universe that is ASOIAF. And here I was, thinking I would hate the series. Hell, I enjoyed it a lot more than The Lord of the Rings! As a funny fact, I tend to forget about descriptions partway through a book, so I kept imagining the Spider as a slim, tall man.  And yeah, people should really stay away from anything book-related while they are reading. Just some idle browsing spoiled me some surprises - deaths, mostly. 
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Nov 15, 2012 06:31
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Yeah, it's easy to get spoiled on some of the deaths. Hell, you can't even read anything about the sequels or even the series in general without being spoiled on the most plot-centric ones.
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Nov 15, 2012 06:36
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I was lucky. I had heard a term that related to a color and occasion, but I had no idea of its context. Heck, while reading the books, I kind of hoped it was going to happen at JOFFREY's wedding and kill HIM, based on the fact that one of the Lannister colors is red. Which didn't exactly turn out as expected.
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Nov 15, 2012 06:52
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Cornwind Evil posted:I was lucky. I had heard a term that related to a color and occasion, but I had no idea of its context. Heck, while reading the books, I kind of hoped it was going to happen at JOFFREY's wedding and kill HIM, based on the fact that one of the Lannister colors is red. Which didn't exactly turn out as expected. Well, I suppose you could call it the purple wedding...
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Nov 15, 2012 11:54
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While I'm waiting for the second book to arrive, I've been reading some chapters again. And I can't believe I forgot about the following: GoT spoilers: Was Bran's assassination attempt ever clarified? Or is it resolved in the later books?
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Nov 17, 2012 08:09
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Azran posted:GoT spoilers:
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Nov 17, 2012 08:14
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:This is resolved at some point in the later books. I can't remember where, specifically.
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Nov 17, 2012 08:41
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The person who asked the question had only finished AGOT. They only wanted to know whether AGOT answered the question.
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Nov 17, 2012 09:08
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whowhatwhere posted:The person who asked the question had only finished AGOT. They only wanted to know whether AGOT answered the question. Technically, yeah. But even though spoilers are basically anathema to ASOIAF, I gotta give credit to GRRM - even if you spoil yourself on the WHAT happens, most of the time you can still read on and be surprised by the WHY or HOW.
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Nov 17, 2012 16:33
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You know, I absolutely loving adore google sometimes. So I'm nearly done with Clash of Kings, and as I'm reading I spontaneously wonder what the actor who plays Roose Bolton looks like. I type his name into google and the third MOTHERFUCKING suggested search is "Roose Bolton kills Robb Stark". A coworker told me that it's a major event in the overall story, and I just want someone to reassure me that I have plenty of other "holy poo poo" moments to look forward to.
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Nov 18, 2012 07:46
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Hah. Haha. Hahahahahaahahahahahahahahaha. No, that was totally the only thing that ever happens. You might as well never read any of the other books.
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Nov 18, 2012 07:49
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Doppelganger posted:A coworker told me that it's a major event in the overall story, and I just want someone to reassure me that I have plenty of other "holy poo poo" moments to look forward to. There are definitely more surprises for you, but that is one of the biggest ones of the series. I view spoilers differently because the buildup is much more significant than the outcome, in my view. Your coworker told you a fact but it will catch you off guard as far as how it happens, who does it, who goes with him, how it is done, etc... Keep reading because ASOIAF is the best fantasy series. pr0p fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Nov 18, 2012 |
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Nov 18, 2012 09:41
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I had the outline of that event spoiled and the book is no less  because of it. Well I suppose most people threw their books across the room, while I couldn't put it down afterwards.
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Nov 18, 2012 12:12
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I was fully spoiled about said event before going into it, and *still* threw the book across the room and was left depressed for days after reading it. In this case it's all about the execution, that's what makes it so powerful.
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Nov 18, 2012 13:09
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A Storm of Swords owns because every plot thread on the go finishes on a great "oh gently caress" moment at the end of the book.
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Nov 18, 2012 13:18
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Doppelganger posted:You know, I absolutely loving adore google sometimes. If it makes you feel any better, its not quite that simple... Let this serve as a WARNING TO ALL READING THE FIRST TIME. Do not search for ANYTHING regarding the series, you will be inadvertently spoiled. Even the search for at the moment "Let's read" threads will unveil things you didn't want to see. For example I wanted some background info I missed on Tyrion. Before I even started ACOK and... ASOS spoiler and autocompleted was "Tyrion marries Sansa" Hell, I just watched a random music video and got major Walking Dead deaths spoiled in the freaking comments section. morons kept thumbs uping it CatchrNdRy fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 00:30
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Doppelganger posted:You know, I absolutely loving adore google sometimes. Well, thats not exactly what happens, so you still have a a few moments coming up in regards to what actually goes down.Edit: Thats probably the most aptly named smilie on SA! Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 03:24
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Doppelganger posted:You know, I absolutely loving adore google sometimes. If it's any consolation that doesn't actually happen.
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Nov 19, 2012 03:34
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Doppelganger posted:You know, I absolutely loving adore google sometimes. Keep reading, the other books are amazing.
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Nov 19, 2012 08:12
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I thought I read it here, but I cannot find it again. What page does Dance with Dragons meet AFFC's story line (the two catch up)? I have the standard paperback. I just read to the wedding in winterfell and the next chapter seems to be back in Dorne.
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Nov 19, 2012 11:03
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Aero737 posted:I thought I read it here, but I cannot find it again. It's whenever you see the chapters that feature POVs from AFFC, I think (it's either a Jaime or Cercei chapter ).
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Nov 19, 2012 15:23
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computer parts posted:It's whenever you see the chapters that feature POVs from AFFC, I think (it's either a Jaime or Cercei chapter ). Unless i'm mistaken, I think it was Areo Hotah's chapter that merges the timelines? Page 500, though the POV is titled The Watcher
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Nov 19, 2012 16:56
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The first AFFC POV to appear in ADWD is Asha but the first chapter set after the end of AFFC is Arya's. e: Scratch that, I guess it is Areo's. In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 17:42
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From what I recall, it's about page 592 in Dance where Dance goes past AFFC.
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Nov 20, 2012 00:06
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Cornwind Evil posted:Wait, what? In which book was that indicated? I might have missed it, like the subtle hinting of Renly and Loras' relationship in the first two books; it took the TV Series being more explicit for me to clue in on that.. Can I get a specific quote? The thing about Renly: I think the books have more time to flesh out his character before he is killed. Martin can be more subtle about relationships because there is ample time before and after Renly's death to drop hints about the subject. With the tv show, if they didn't explicitly show a few things, I don't know if people would have an appreciation for all the things going on around Renly so they took a few minutes out of some episodes to just show it to you and then they could move on to other things. I like the way it's dropped in the book a lot better. It shows you what the culture is like and, in almost keeping it a secret from even the reader, makes you appreciate how much of a secret their relationship was to all but a few people who sort of read between the lines.
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Nov 28, 2012 18:06
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I wasn't sure if there was a thread where I could post this. I just really needed somewhere to vent and not spoil everything for everyone. I just want to say that the middle of Book 3 is the greatest amount of horseshit and makes me want to stop reading, and my only hope is that now Snow will run the loving show. Please tell me it warrants continuing to read. quote:If it's any consolation that doesn't actually happen. And if its not any consolation at all what actually happens is way worse and makes me loving furious. hubris.height fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Dec 16, 2012 |
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Dec 16, 2012 19:15
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OrganGrinder posted:I wasn't sure if there was a thread where I could post this. I just really needed somewhere to vent and not spoil everything for everyone. Keep reading. You'll be glad you did.
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Dec 16, 2012 19:33
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OrganGrinder posted:I wasn't sure if there was a thread where I could post this. I just really needed somewhere to vent and not spoil everything for everyone. Finish book 3 at least, maybe consult a guide for reading 4 and 5 at once so that their chapters line up better. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading about Dany and Cersai's chapters being much better when read one after the other to contrast their ruling styles.
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Dec 16, 2012 19:38
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Maarak posted:Finish book 3 at least, maybe consult a guide for reading 4 and 5 at once so that their chapters line up better. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading about Dany and Cersai's chapters being much better when read one after the other to contrast their ruling styles.
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Dec 16, 2012 20:53
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OrganGrinder posted:I wasn't sure if there was a thread where I could post this. I just really needed somewhere to vent and not spoil everything for everyone.
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Dec 16, 2012 21:03
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Urdnot Fire posted:Please elaborate on why it is horseshit. It wasn't horse poo poo in as much as it makes perfect sense for the sequence of events to happen, and the whole book was building to this kind of climax. It was horseshit because Robb deserved much better than that, and all this after the author actually made me feel kind of bad and sympathetic for Jamie. Its an emotional roller coaster, and if the books have taught nothing else its no one gets what they deserve, thusfar. Especially my homie Tyrion. And I swear to the old gods if he dies I will rant on every forum on the internet. The consensus is that I should keep reading, and I will. Are books 4/5 so chronologically bizzaire that there will be an actual need for the guide?
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Dec 16, 2012 22:58
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AFFC and ADWD started life as a single book that grew too large for a single volume, so GRRM split their content along geographic lines to keep his publisher happy. It's not incomprehensible as published, but it's far from ideal. The thing that really ticked off readers was the author's note at the very end of AFFC, which is more or less an IOU.
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Dec 16, 2012 23:02
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OrganGrinder posted:Are books 4/5 so chronologically bizzaire that there will be an actual need for the guide? Nah. Some say they read better, but you can generally piece together the timeline. Around halfway through ADWD starts going beyond the timeline of AFFC.
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Dec 16, 2012 23:03
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