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HEGEL SMOKE A J posted:Isn't that literally Leo Strauss's position (and, to some extent, also Charles Taylor--I know he's religious, but he loves him some social cohesion arguments)? I'm not going to pretend it's not morally perverse, but it's not like this is uncommon. Strauss is great. There's no god, but religion is necessary to get people to gently caress themselves over for the greater good, so as an enlightened being, your job is to promote the poo poo out of religion and write coded texts that communicate these values of deceit and exploitation to other enlightened people.
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Nov 19, 2012 05:28
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Close; Bain Capital (yes, that Bain Capital) owns Clear Channel; they bought it back in 2006. And it's very likely that they will end up doing to Clear Channel what they've done to other companies they've owned. The free market at work ladies and gentlemen.
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Nov 19, 2012 05:42
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SilentD posted:When you come out and say that you're an athiest and christians are stupid but more American's should be religious because religious people love America and vote for the right party, you aren't even trying anymore. As a former conservative, I'm not convinced. I used to think a lot like Cupp does. It wasn't an act, and it took me years to finally snap out of it. The power of religious thinking and its effect on people (even ones who are self-styled atheists) cannot be underestimated. With the way Christianity dominates our society should it really come as a surprise that there are people who don't believe, but still place Christianity on a pedestal? Its a matter of culture, not belief. It is possible that Cupp is a brilliantly cynical con artist who has fooled the media establishment into paying her to be a conservative commentator, but I don't buy it. I think she's a well educated (privileged), intellectually weak, attractive woman who climbed the ranks by slumming on shows like Red Eye where she did segments with her bare legs propped up on a desk. She's a perfect example of the absurdity of modern conservatism as our society slowly transitions out of white christian male dominance. What surprises me is that there aren't more people like her on TV.
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Nov 19, 2012 05:42
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Pope Guilty posted:Strauss is great. There's no god, but religion is necessary to get people to gently caress themselves over for the greater good, so as an enlightened being, your job is to promote the poo poo out of religion and write coded texts that communicate these values of deceit and exploitation to other enlightened people. And you know they're enlightened because they have exactly the same opinion about philosophical texts that you do! 
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Nov 19, 2012 05:47
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See also, yuppies who take their kids to church UNTIL they're old enough to have a conversation. All in order to instill "morality".(obedience) Of course, in the South they keep going til about first grade, and then they send them to Jesus Camp/TEA Party camp. Big Hubris fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 05:52
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Interestingly, Strauss shares with Hobbes this sort of determination to paint governance as horrifingly as possible so he can rub it in your face that it's better than you'd be without it.
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Nov 19, 2012 05:55
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Pope Guilty posted:Interestingly, Strauss shares with Hobbes this sort of determination to paint governance as horrifingly as possible so he can rub it in your face that it's better than you'd be without it. Wait, what? Are you saying there's an esoteric reading of Hobbes that's pro-anarchy?
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Nov 19, 2012 06:09
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cheese posted:The free market at work ladies and gentlemen. Why would it be a bad thing if Clear Channel were to go away? They're already borderline right-wing media on their own, and the age of mass consolidation in radio that they oversaw could only have aided Rush, Savage, Hannity, and Levin in their quest to make the two-minutes hate a drivetime tradition for tens of millions of bitter flatlanders. Who puts these demons on 600 news radio stations for five hours a day and tells the listeners it's reputable editorializing? Clear Channel does.
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Nov 19, 2012 06:14
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Jack of Hearts posted:Wait, what? Are you saying there's an esoteric reading of Hobbes that's pro-anarchy? No, no, I'm saying that Hobbes and Strauss both have this weird thing where they like to rub the awfulness of governance in your face to the end of smugly going "but the alternative is awfulness and horror, so suck it up".
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Nov 19, 2012 06:15
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Strauss hangs out with C-Street types, and their stated goal is the abolishment of all secular government. Guess what they want to replace it with?
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Nov 19, 2012 06:16
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ErichZahn posted:Strauss hangs out with C-Street types, and their stated goal is the abolishment of all secular government. Guess what they want to replace it with? I forget who it was but it was some famous "economic rights have been trampled by civil rights and this sucks" right winger that was gleefully cheering on the fiasco in Chile, with a line of logic of "well, sure it's a dictatorship and people are getting killed left and right but gently caress man, pure economic freedom and that's what counts to us folk that matter". And not some minor person, might have been Milton Freidman. The people who can tie their own shoes and show up to work on time on the right know it's all crap, all they want is pure unregulated capitalism, but they can't come out actually say that or people will run screaming. If it means they have to live under a theocracy or a dictatorship to get it, they don't care. As long as economic and contract rights are first and foremost.
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Nov 19, 2012 06:26
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All Of The Dicks posted:What the hell kind of name is S.E. Cupp? I can't see it without thinking "sippy cup" I was kinda wondering this too. Is her name really hard to pronounce or does it sound too foreign for a conservative commentator? Nope! Her actual name is Sarah Elizabeth Cupp.
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Nov 19, 2012 06:30
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She probably just really loved The Outsiders as a preteen.
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Nov 19, 2012 06:34
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Lord Lambeth posted:I was kinda wondering this too. Is her name really hard to pronounce or does it sound too foreign for a conservative commentator? Nope! Her actual name is Sarah Elizabeth Cupp. According to wikipedia it's just Sarah Elizabeth, so I guess just to be unique or she hates having 2 first names. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._E._Cupp
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Nov 19, 2012 06:38
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SilentD posted:I forget who it was but it was some famous "economic rights have been trampled by civil rights and this sucks" right winger that was gleefully cheering on the fiasco in Chile, with a line of logic of "well, sure it's a dictatorship and people are getting killed left and right but gently caress man, pure economic freedom and that's what counts to us folk that matter". And not some minor person, might have been Milton Freidman. A lot of total pieces of poo poo were huge Pinochet fans.
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Nov 19, 2012 06:42
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Since a lot of famous authors have done the initials thing, she probably thinks it makes her sound more intellectual.
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Nov 19, 2012 06:42
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When I hear S. E. Cupp, I think 2 Girls 1 Cup. The End.
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Nov 19, 2012 06:43
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ErichZahn posted:Strauss hangs out with C-Street types, and their stated goal is the abolishment of all secular government. Guess what they want to replace it with? SilentD posted:I forget who it was but it was some famous "economic rights have been trampled by civil rights and this sucks" right winger that was gleefully cheering on the fiasco in Chile, with a line of logic of "well, sure it's a dictatorship and people are getting killed left and right but gently caress man, pure economic freedom and that's what counts to us folk that matter". And not some minor person, might have been Milton Freidman. Pope Guilty posted:No, no, I'm saying that Hobbes and Strauss both have this weird thing where they like to rub the awfulness of governance in your face to the end of smugly going "but the alternative is awfulness and horror, so suck it up".  Graaar the SOCIAL CONTRAAAAAACT!" It really has a lot of interesting little bits in it.
HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 06:45
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Pope Guilty posted:A lot of total pieces of poo poo were huge Pinochet fans. All left-of-center governments = Socialism = Communism =  There is barely any such thing as repression from the Right, which includes such gems as Rhodesia. /Buckley
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Nov 19, 2012 06:48
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Cadillac Christians, speaking about how you shouldn't even READ the Gospels because all that poo poo's meant for people living in the Millenial Kingdom. The Family, Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of America is the best book about them that's been published. Their theology is explicitly anti-democratic. And yes, libertarians are anti-democracy, because just like Satanism is Prosperity Theology without God, Libertarianism is Objectivism without Goddess. Big Hubris fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 07:02
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agarjogger posted:Why would it be a bad thing if Clear Channel were to go away? They're already borderline right-wing media on their own, and the age of mass consolidation in radio that they oversaw could only have aided Rush, Savage, Hannity, and Levin in their quest to make the two-minutes hate a drivetime tradition for tens of millions of bitter flatlanders. Who puts these demons on 600 news radio stations for five hours a day and tells the listeners it's reputable editorializing? Clear Channel does. I don't think cheese was arguing in favor of CC so much as they were pointing out the irony inherent in how the free market, that entity so beloved of Republicans, has potentially encompassed the doom of CC (and with it a large platform for Rush, et al, to spout their nonsense); and also the irony present in how said doom will very likely be delivered by Bain Capital, the former company of the man they did their goddamndest to try and get elected president (and who they almost instantly started ignoring once he lost).
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Nov 19, 2012 08:57
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Just listened to Glenn Beck for 25 minutes this morning. According to him, our media is controlled by Arabs because some story he tried to run on CNN had to clear the "Middle Eastern" desk before it could go to air. Also, CNN showed Anderson Cooper in Gaza and all he talked about how brutal Israel is being to the Palestinians. I never knew our country/media only showed Palestine in a flattering light. I guess I don't watch TV correctly. Worst show ever.
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Nov 19, 2012 15:51
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lil mortimer posted:Just listened to Glenn Beck for 25 minutes this morning. According to him, our media is controlled by Arabs because some story he tried to run on CNN had to clear the "Middle Eastern" desk before it could go to air. Also, CNN showed Anderson Cooper in Gaza and all he talked about how brutal Israel is being to the Palestinians. I never knew our country/media only showed Palestine in a flattering light. I guess I don't watch TV correctly. It didn't help that Cooper almost got bombed - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X22QHxrwp_E
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Nov 19, 2012 16:46
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I really think 9/11 broke many minds out there. I remember listening to Glenn Beck here in the Tampa Bay area, on his very first shows. While he had a slight right leaning bent, he was actually fun to listen to! He said things like "I don't want anyone over 55 calling this show" and made up a religious group called Frisbeterians (the soul gets stuck on the roof and can't get down) to prank overly religious groups, I remember an episode supporting physician assisted suicide, and so on. Then 9/11 happened. He went hard right, (well, righter) and it was unlistenable from then on. Didn't the same thing kind of happen to Dennis Miller?
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Nov 19, 2012 18:43
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lil mortimer posted:Just listened to Glenn Beck for 25 minutes this morning. According to him, our media is controlled by Arabs because some story he tried to run on CNN had to clear the "Middle Eastern" desk before it could go to air. Also, CNN showed Anderson Cooper in Gaza and all he talked about how brutal Israel is being to the Palestinians. I never knew our country/media only showed Palestine in a flattering light. I guess I don't watch TV correctly. I was listening to that as well (Patriot on Sirius gives me the talking points I will be hearing from my Conservative co-workers, it pays be be prepared) and it sounded like he was just reading headlines to himself, adding his special dose of crazy and then regurgitating them. He implied that the NYT was being "fair" but that everything else was controlled by Arabs. His evidence was... Anderson Cooper being in Gaza. The logic of Conservertives is always hard to follow, but Glenn Beck is in his own league. I've heard he's just in it for the money, and calls himself an "entertainer." Is there any truth to that?
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Nov 19, 2012 18:54
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Sexual Aluminum posted:made up a religious group called Frisbeterians (the soul gets stuck on the roof and can't get down) to prank overly religious groups I don't know anything about Glenn Beck but this was actually an old George Carlin bit iirc.
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Nov 19, 2012 18:56
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Sydney Bottocks posted:I don't think cheese was arguing in favor of CC so much as they were pointing out the irony inherent in how the free market, that entity so beloved of Republicans, has potentially encompassed the doom of CC (and with it a large platform for Rush, et al, to spout their nonsense); and also the irony present in how said doom will very likely be delivered by Bain Capital, the former company of the man they did their goddamndest to try and get elected president (and who they almost instantly started ignoring once he lost). Ya pretty much this. The irony of Mitt Romney's vulture Bain Capital, who Rush championed so hard, potentially devouring the company who broadcasts that windbags hateful words across the country, is almost too delicious to handle.
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Nov 19, 2012 19:06
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Sexual Aluminum posted:Then 9/11 happened. He went hard right, (well, righter) and it was unlistenable from then on. Didn't the same thing kind of happen to Dennis Miller? Might be thinking of Christopher Hitchens.
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Nov 19, 2012 19:08
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Phone posted:Might be thinking of Christopher Hitchens. Dennis Miller absolutely cracked up around 9/11. He was relatively liberal beforehand, and turned into "bomb the dirty foreigners at all costs" afterward. It happened to a lot of people. I was a fan of a humorist named James Lileks who had the same thing go wrong in his brain.  VVVV You are absolutely correct. I like to read that every once in a while, especially when I'm angry about something. When the Benghazi (sp?) thing happened, I was pissed off, but reading Kreider's words really helped me level my brain out. 
prefect fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 19:09
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prefect posted:Dennis Miller absolutely cracked up around 9/11. He was relatively liberal beforehand, and turned into "bomb the dirty foreigners at all costs" afterward. It happened to a lot of people. I was a fan of a humorist named James Lileks who had the same thing go wrong in his brain. The idea of 9/11 breaking otherwise reasonable people reminds me of this excellent essay by Tim Kreider, which reads in part: quote:Sept. 11 scared this country in a way we had not been scared in living memory. Americans have lived without death for a long time now. The popular culture of the 19th century seems creepily morbid and lachrymose to us; people took portrait photos of their dead infants, laid corpses out in the living room, slaughtered their own dinners. Today death is an embarrassing medical condition best kept out of sight, like eczema, and old age seems like a really bad lifestyle choice. So seeing people who looked just like us -- not swarthy keffiyehed people in the usual war-torn regions, their mothers keening over them in unWASPy abandon, but office workers who read the Times and shopped at Whole Foods and watched Netflix -- dying in unimaginably painful and terrifying ways so scared us that we needed to do something, anything, no matter how useless, to ensure that this would not happen to us or to the people we loved.
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Nov 19, 2012 19:43
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El Disco posted:The idea of 9/11 breaking otherwise reasonable people reminds me of this excellent essay by Tim Kreider, which reads in part:
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Nov 19, 2012 20:27
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Nonsense posted:I'm pretty disappointed he even felt like that. That's loving disgusting. You don't ever get angry and wish ill on villains, even for a short time? If not, I'm impressed -- it feels like a reflex when it happens to me.
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Nov 19, 2012 20:33
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Yeah, if you never lose control of your emotions and think ugly thoughts than you're a better person than most everyone. Or a liar. But sane, rational, good people calm down and feel bad about it.
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Nov 19, 2012 20:36
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lil mortimer posted:Just listened to Glenn Beck for 25 minutes this morning. According to him, our media is controlled by Arabs because some story he tried to run on CNN had to clear the "Middle Eastern" desk before it could go to air. Also, CNN showed Anderson Cooper in Gaza and all he talked about how brutal Israel is being to the Palestinians. I never knew our country/media only showed Palestine in a flattering light. I guess I don't watch TV correctly. I thought the media was controlled by Jews.  edit prefect posted:You don't ever get angry and wish ill on villains, even for a short time? If not, I'm impressed -- it feels like a reflex when it happens to me. It's one thing to feel that immediate anger, but it's another entirely to start writing editorials and going on the air to vent your anger and call for the death of all involved. I was at Ft. Hood the day the WTC was hit and saw way more fear than anger in the faces of the soldiers around me. Miller and all the other reactionists can go gently caress themselves, none of them went and joined the military after the 11th. They just turned into massive chickenhawks and made a ton of cash of of scaring everyone. Sir Tonk fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 21:01
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Sir Tonk posted:I thought the media was controlled by Jews. Jews in the Middle East  Nonsense posted:I'm pretty disappointed he even felt like that. That's loving disgusting. Godlessdonut fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 21:06
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Sir Tonk posted:I thought the media was controlled by Jews. Glenn Beck is for Alex Jones for boring white Republicans. It's much easier to throw all your conspiracies at the real boogieman, Democrats, than it is to talk about the NWO and shadowy secret organizations. In Beckworld, it's all George Soros, Barack Obama and Bill Clinton dancing in the shadows.
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Nov 19, 2012 21:11
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lil mortimer posted:Glenn Beck is for Alex Jones for boring white Republicans. It's much easier to throw all your conspiracies at the real boogieman, Democrats, than it is to talk about the NWO and shadowy secret organizations. In Beckworld, it's all George Soros, Barack Obama and Bill Clinton dancing in the shadows. Yeah sometimes I wish Beck would get into the Bilderberg and Trilateral Commission stuff Jones is so obsessed with. I'm sick of hearing about "political mastermind" George Soros and how he controls the entire world. I need more stories about how the elites are going to kill off 3/4 of the planet's population.
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Nov 19, 2012 21:13
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Nonsense posted:I'm pretty disappointed he even felt like that. That's loving disgusting. He did admit it was a temporary condition. Also, I think this is a thing that we, as non-Americans from a country that hasn't experienced any major terrorist attack or act of war in nearly 70 years, are capable of truly grasping.
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Nov 19, 2012 21:16
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Nonsense posted:I'm pretty disappointed he even felt like that. That's loving disgusting. Like it or not that's the way fear works for, I'd venture at least, a majority of Americans.
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Nov 19, 2012 21:22
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Nonsense posted:I'm pretty disappointed he even felt like that. That's loving disgusting. How old were you when it happened? I drove home from work thinking "Well poo poo, I guess I'm not too old to enlist for a tour or two" More of a 'sighed and drew his katana' sort of self-drama, than a "rar nuke all browns!" self-drama, but the drive home from work on 9/11 I thought a number of rather uncharacteristic, unlikely, and in retrospect slightly embarrassing thoughts. Of course, nobody was paying me to write my opinions in the paper, and I wasn't subject to the same feedback loop that people who say whatever poo poo pops in their head for 2 hours a day on television and radio. So it wore off pretty quick.
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Nov 19, 2012 21:25
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