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A few more thoughts on this series of updates: Hussie keeps bringing up Calliborn's misogyny (caps lock is "MAYBE ALSO FOR GIRLS. FOR WHEN THEY GET HYSTERICAL AND MAKE THEIR LETTERS SHOUT"). One of the things I appreciate about Homestuck's satire of internet culture is how he really sticks it to online sexism: aside from Calliborn, the comic's main villains include a pimp, a Nice Guy, a pick-up artist, and a sketchy older dude who creeps on young girls, and each is repulsive and hilarious in his own special way. It's also completely fitting (assuming this is how the plot plays out because who the hell even knows at this point?) that the badass, totally ripped, lady-smacking pimp archvillain is secretly the idealized self-image of a bratty little teenager who finds sex repulsive and calls all women "bitches." Also: one of Gamzee's powers is to invite destruction through Rage. Seems like that finally backfired on him.
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Nov 21, 2012 18:58
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Indie Rocktopus posted:a pick-up artist, Wait, which one's this? I mean I totally agree with what you're saying I just can't think of anyone that fits this description, although it's probably gonna come to me a second after I post this...
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Nov 21, 2012 19:24
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I think you're reading too deeply into things. This is the same Hussie responsible for the Cool Dude & Stoner Lou comics.
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Nov 21, 2012 19:25
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Mazerunner posted:Wait, which one's this? I mean I totally agree with what you're saying I just can't think of anyone that fits this description, although it's probably gonna come to me a second after I post this... Cronus.
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Nov 21, 2012 19:38
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Cronus doesn't really qualify as a "main villain". He is skeezy though.
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Nov 21, 2012 19:48
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JT Jag posted:Cronus doesn't really qualify as a "main villain". Oh, I didn't notice the 'main villains' qualifier, my bad. I have no idea which main villain is a PUA, in that case.
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Nov 21, 2012 19:57
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Clearly it's Lil' Cal. Can't resist dat rump.
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Nov 21, 2012 20:16
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Fortis posted:Oh, I didn't notice the 'main villains' qualifier, my bad. Cronus is still clearly who was being referred to.
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Nov 21, 2012 20:17
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I think Cronus has to qualify as an honorary main villain just by virtue of being the only character who is unanimously, unambiguously hated. In a story with so many characters, that's really something.
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Nov 21, 2012 20:46
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He's got his share of apologists, but they really aren't as numerous or loud as the Eridan/Kankri/Caliborn ones.
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Nov 21, 2012 20:50
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A6I4 is going to be terrible if it is all just Caliborn being Caliborn.
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Nov 21, 2012 20:59
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Sherrard posted:A6I4 is going to be amazing if it is all just Caliborn being Caliborn. Fixed.
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Nov 21, 2012 21:05
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Sherrard posted:A6I4 is going to be terrible if it is all just Caliborn being Caliborn. I don't know, this intermission is doing a fantastic job at making me not completely hate him. 
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Nov 21, 2012 21:06
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Sherrard posted:A6I4 is going to be terrible if it is all just Caliborn being Caliborn. We're either reading different updates or different dictionaries.
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Nov 21, 2012 21:08
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I'm right and you're all wrong. 
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Nov 21, 2012 21:09
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Well, we are still learning things. The hub Gamzee was carrying is identical to the ones in the basement of the SkaiaNet laboratory on Earth. Either those are Sburb technology, or he brought it a long way (perhaps from Roxy's house).
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Nov 21, 2012 21:24
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Bongo Bill posted:Well, we are still learning things. The hub Gamzee was carrying is identical to the ones in the basement of the SkaiaNet laboratory on Earth. Either those are Sburb technology, or he brought it a long way (perhaps from Roxy's house). Or it could come from Rose. They're both on the Meteor Lab together in the "present", and though Rose lost all her sweet kit when she died and then burned up in the sun, the ability to craft more is still stored in her Athenum. But then again, he was in the alpha kids' session before this (his costume was intact when he met Jane), so he could just have easily have taken the hub from Roxy's house, as you suggested. 
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Nov 21, 2012 21:36
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It's interesting how Gamzee never died in any timeline. So even when Jack blew up the meteor in the Beta Vriska timeline Gamzee survived. That's a tough loving clown.
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Nov 21, 2012 22:44
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Or he just wasn't there.
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Nov 21, 2012 22:51
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YF-23 posted:It's interesting how Gamzee never died in any timeline. So even when Jack blew up the meteor in the Beta Vriska timeline Gamzee survived. That's a tough loving clown. Plot armor man. It's simply the best there is.
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Nov 21, 2012 22:55
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Line Feed posted:I think you're reading too deeply into things. This is the same Hussie responsible for the Cool Dude & Stoner Lou comics. Cool Dude and Stoner Lou was a parody of the notoriously terrible and misogynistic webcomic "Shredded Moose."
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Nov 21, 2012 22:56
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YF-23 posted:It's interesting how Gamzee never died in any timeline. So even when Jack blew up the meteor in the Beta Vriska timeline Gamzee survived. That's a tough loving clown. Maybe all the dead Gamzees just all meet up at a big Gathering of the Juggalos, attended by, staffed by, and entertainment provided by dead Gamzees. Rhinoceraptor posted:Cool Dude and Stoner Lou was a parody of the notoriously terrible and misogynistic webcomic "Shredded Moose." Goddamn you I had forgotten about that comic! GODDAMN YOU! Ape Has Killed Ape fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Nov 22, 2012 |
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Nov 22, 2012 00:53
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Yeah, despite the "main" villain qualifier I was thinking of Cronus. Man, gently caress that guy.Luminous Obscurity posted:He's got his share of apologists, but they really aren't as numerous or loud as the Eridan/Kankri/Caliborn ones. Kankri's actually another good example - he's not actively hostile towards women like some of the others, but he fails to recognize sexism because he commits the Tumblr cardinal sin of not "checking his privilege" as a dude.
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Nov 22, 2012 00:55
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Ape Has Killed Ape posted:Maybe all the dead Gamzees just all meet up at a big Gathering of the Juggalos, attended by, staffed by, and entertainment provided by dead Gamzees. This would make sense actually. As the most religious character in the comic, gamzee plainly has his own afterlife which is on a separate plane to that of the dream bubbles. All the dead gamzee's are chilling out in the dark carnival.
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Nov 22, 2012 01:02
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The reason why Gamzee never dies in any timeline is because in every timeline he needs to teach trigger-finger over here so that every timeline has Lord English.
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Nov 22, 2012 01:16
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Indie Rocktopus posted:Kankri's actually another good example - he's not actively hostile towards women like some of the others, but he fails to recognize sexism because he commits the Tumblr cardinal sin of not "checking his privilege" as a dude. Kankri's problem is that he's an egotistical shithead. He enables both Horuss's and Cronus's problems and straight up tells Mituna that things would be better if he didn't exist. It's come up before, but he's pretty much the anti-Karkat. Horrible person masked with diatribes about justice and caring.
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Nov 22, 2012 01:27
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YF-23 posted:It's interesting how Gamzee never died in any timeline. So even when Jack blew up the meteor in the Beta Vriska timeline Gamzee survived. That's a tough loving clown. I thought that was just Terezi using her Seer of Mind powers to see what would happen if she chose not to kill Vriska, not a timeline that actually happened.
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Nov 22, 2012 01:34
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Kankri's basically championing the cause of all the non-oppressed and fictional minorities, while throwing rude and insensitive comments towards people who actually suffer from disabilities (Mituna's brain damage, Meulin's deafness) and refusing to listen to people talking about real problems (Porrim and mysogyny). He's not as loathed as Cronus because his alternate universe version grew up to become The Best Troll Jesus, so there must be something good in him under all the self-centered bullshit; but outside of that meta-knowledge he's quite terrible.
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Nov 22, 2012 01:40
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Cat Mattress posted:He's not as loathed as Cronus because his alternate universe version grew up to become The Best Troll Jesus, so there must be something good in him under all the self-centered bullshit; but outside of that meta-knowledge he's quite terrible. His stated aims are good, he just suffers from a complete lack of experience or understanding of the issues he claims to be opposing, coupled with an absolute conviction that he knows better than the actual sufferers of those issues and unwillingness to listen to their point of view. On Alternia he was an outcast because of his blood and in danger of culling if he was discovered, so he actually experienced oppression first-hand and so knew what the gently caress he was talking about.
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Nov 22, 2012 01:47
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Cat Mattress posted:He's not as loathed as Cronus because his alternate universe version grew up to become The Best Troll Jesus, so there must be something good in him under all the self-centered bullshit; but outside of that meta-knowledge he's quite terrible. He's also not loathed as much because a significant portion of the homestuck fanbase are self-unaware tumblrites in the vein of Kankri, whereas PUAs are pretty much mocked and shunned regularly by everyone. All these goddamn tea avatars are reminding me of GKC. I really should get around to actually reading that sometime.
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Nov 22, 2012 01:50
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I think its more that most people don't really read what he's actually saying so all they pick up from his speeches are "he cares about social justice." Also he's such a cutie just lookit em!  He's my perfect precious gay little baby.
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Nov 22, 2012 01:52
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Suaimhneas posted:I thought that was just Terezi using her Seer of Mind powers to see what would happen if she chose not to kill Vriska, not a timeline that actually happened. There's not a difference!
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Nov 22, 2012 02:42
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I...how the gently caress is Cronus a villain? He's just a douchebag hipster who wishes he was a human. 
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Nov 22, 2012 03:27
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Cat Mattress posted:Kankri's basically championing the cause of all the non-oppressed and fictional minorities, while throwing rude and insensitive comments towards people who actually suffer from disabilities (Mituna's brain damage, Meulin's deafness) and refusing to listen to people talking about real problems (Porrim and mysogyny). I said it before, I'll say it again: Kankri is literally a child. Not a big dumb manchild kind of thing, the dude is a teenager-- like a lot of teenagers, they think they're always right, everything in the world is wrong, their problems are immesurable, and the world revolves around them. They want to rebel, even when they don't know what to rebel against. The dude is just a petulant child who hasn't really had a chance to grow up. Hell, one of his alternate outfits in that flash was footie pajamas. It's easy to be annoyed by him, but he's hardly a villain. He's just a teenager.
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Nov 22, 2012 03:34
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Kankri is hardly a villain. Short-sighted and kind of an rear end in a top hat, sure, but there are tons of those. Cronus might literally be a rapist though. Like, literally.
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Nov 22, 2012 03:41
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I'll be honest, I never actually saw what people were referring to with that. The only thing I saw was Cronus grabbing Mituna by the shoulder and not letting go when asked, which is of course still very grody but not nearly on the level of sexual assault.
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Nov 22, 2012 03:44
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Lizard Wizard posted:I...how the gently caress is Cronus a villain? He's just a douchebag hipster who wishes he was a human. When you molest a mentally disabled person you rocket up the Douchebag Meter so fast you burst through the glass and leave a smoldering hole in the roof. I liked how Mituna was sort of a morality barometer for the Alpha Trolls. Anyone who was openly hostile to him (or hinted to be hostile, as with Damara/Kurloz) were either complete assholes or outright sinister. Cabbit posted:I'll be honest, I never actually saw what people were referring to with that. The only thing I saw was Cronus grabbing Mituna by the shoulder and not letting go when asked, which is of course still very grody but not nearly on the level of sexual assault. Mind you, Cronus is the one who described it as friendly shoulder-touching. I'm disinclined to trust his perspective on the matter.
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Nov 22, 2012 03:44
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Suaimhneas posted:I thought that was just Terezi using her Seer of Mind powers to see what would happen if she chose not to kill Vriska, not a timeline that actually happened. I thought that was a pretty valid way of seeing it too, but Vriska pretty much confirms it was a separate timeline recently.
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Nov 22, 2012 03:48
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Luminous Obscurity posted:Kankri's problem is that he's an egotistical shithead. He enables both Horuss's and Cronus's problems and straight up tells Mituna that things would be better if he didn't exist. I dunno, I might be giving him too much credit but I kind of see him as an endearingly tragic figure. I got the impression that he does have enough self-awareness to realize deep down that he's making an utter mockery of everything he believes in, but he's stuck denying it to himself. That's basically what's going on with his feelings for Latula, and I don't think it's too much of a stretch to see some of the same with his social justice crusade.
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Nov 22, 2012 03:52
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The key with the Cronus/Mituna dialogue is that Mituna, who before then had been characterized as loud and almost out of control, suddenly stops. Cronus comes along and Mituna withdraws complete and literally begs Cronus to stop touching him. Which Cronus doesn't. Sure, Cronus isn't copping a feel, but what he is doing is molestation.
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Nov 22, 2012 03:53
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