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Mr. Apollo posted:Actually, they changed the entire underpinnings of the Quattroporte shortly after launch to use a conventional automatic transmission with a torque converter attached to the rear of the engine. Well that is much less interesting.
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Nov 27, 2012 06:29
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Looking at those power numbers, am I the only curious if the Fiesta ST might end up actually being faster than the Focus ST?VikingSkull posted:e- fun fact, the Barracuda was released a few weeks before the Mustang in 1964, but the Ford PR machine was much stronger. People think the Mustang was the first pony car, but it wasn't, the first gen Barracuda was. Oh, I do so love this old chestnut, never gets old. Yes, technically the Barracuda was unveiled on April 1, 1964 and the Mustang on April 17, 1964. I mean if you ignore that the Mustang actually hit the streets first, because Mustang production started March 9th and Barracuda production wasn't scheduled until May, it even makes sense. 
Q_res fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Nov 27, 2012 |
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Nov 27, 2012 07:19
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Akerson's bad but you definitely don't need a car guy to be CEO of a car company. I'm not even convinced it helps.
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Nov 27, 2012 14:21
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Akerson's bad but you definitely don't need a car guy to be CEO of a car company. I'm not even convinced it helps. There's a difference between "car guy" as in "enjoys driving cars" and "car guy" as in "knows the first thing about the car industry." Akerson's previous and really only corporate experience in a company that actually makes anything was when he was at Nextel in the 90s, which he did only after jumping the ship from MCI (remember them?). Also, he's been repeatedly firing executives who disagree with him and replacing them with unqualified loyal yes-men. Here's an example of his management: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/general-motors-ceo-dan-akerson-is-not-a-car-guy-08252011.html quote:In December, Akerson and his top managers had a meeting in the office of Thomas Stephens, then the company’s vice-chairman of global product development. The team wallpapered the room with plans for the Volt’s rollout, including pricing, sales targets, and production. Stephens and the product development staff figured the plan was baked and ready to go. Sales started that month and supplier contracts were already in place for future model years. Akerson homed in on the plan to build 45,000 Volts next year and wasn’t satisfied. “The package came to me completely sanitized. ‘Here it is, Mr. CEO, put your stamp on it,’” he says. “I wanted more, more, more.” I mean, jesus christ, I, random internet guy, seem to know more about how supply chains and car development works than this man does. Don't worry, though. Right after this, he replaced Stephens with the former head of HR. edit: one more: quote:Reuss recalls that around the same time Akerson was pushing to sell more Volts, the boss was raising questions about the next-generation Chevy Malibu. At a meeting at GM’s design center north of Detroit in December, Reuss and design chief Edward Welburn proudly showed Akerson a hard-foam mockup of the future Malibu. The design added the distinctive tail lights and sculpted haunches of the hot-selling Camaro. Akerson loved it. Reuss says Akerson turned to him and asked, “How fast can we get this?” The car wasn’t due to market until mid-2012. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Nov 27, 2012 |
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Nov 27, 2012 14:35
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Q_res posted:Looking at those power numbers, am I the only curious if the Fiesta ST might end up actually being faster than the Focus ST? There's a good chance it'll be faster on a track with corners, but I'd imagine the Focus will be faster in the 1/4 mile. I'd take either one, they're both great cars as far as I can tell.
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Nov 28, 2012 02:34
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Cream_Filling posted:edit: one more: That last thing you posted doesn't very negative and according to some people who I trust, GM has a mega hosed internal culture in exactly the way he's describing - everyone is always saying why they can't do X. I still wouldn't want him for a boss, but GM's moving in the right direction in a lot of areas.
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Nov 28, 2012 03:45
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Oh boy, the BMW i3 is at LA!  What really gets me on electric cars is how they make them look dumpy as gently caress. I think it's the lack of a hood. I want it to have a hood that stretches to infinity, not look a minivan with its nose cut off. Tesla seem to be the only ones to understand that an electric car should be a cool car that happens to be electric, not an electric car like this is.
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Nov 28, 2012 04:05
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Cream_Filling posted:I mean, jesus christ, I, random internet guy, seem to know more about how supply chains and car development works than this man does. I don't think you need to get so upset, you clearly don't know more than that man does.
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Nov 28, 2012 04:17
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:That last thing you posted doesn't very negative and according to some people who I trust, GM has a mega hosed internal culture in exactly the way he's describing - everyone is always saying why they can't do X. Yeah, but all that movement is left over from the previous administration. Make no mistake, GM's corporate culture is still an utter shitshow. But the problem here is that Akerson is a know-nothing bully, so when he pushes the engineers to do X faster based on his gut intuition, he really has no way of knowing how valid their protestations are until they come out with a lovely, rushed product with reliability issues due to insufficient development time. Which he will then blame on the product team. I'm assuming the engineer's complaint was valid because he actually went as far as to break chain of command to send it, and in the end their solution was to launch the car as only the hybrid first. The launch itself was pretty much a failure. Reviews called it "the worst car of the year so far," hated the hybrid, and sales were terrible, especially since they were selling them right alongside the previous year Malibus who had huge incentives on the hood. So they lose engineering time and then whiff the launch while still losing all that profit due to adding incentives anyway. The automotive press obviously isn't a perfect gauge of such things, but here's a sampling: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/07/did-gm-complete-f-up-the-launch-of-the-2013-chevrolet-malibu-eco/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/08/15/general-motors-is-headed-for-bankruptcy-again/2/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/08/15/general-motors-is-headed-for-bankruptcy-again/ quote:If you follow the automobile enthusiast press, you know that, under the leadership of then product czar Bob Lutz, GM went all out to develop a competitive D-Segment car for the 2008 model year. The result was the 2008 Chevy Malibu, which managed to get itself named by Car and Driver magazine as one of the “10 Best Cars” for 2008. And then there's this from that same article from before: quote:Some of the new team’s decisions have been costly. Late last year, Reuss concluded that GM should jack up rebates to help dealers boost volume and thin out rising pickup truck inventory. Akerson backed him, and GM offered the industry’s largest deals in the first quarter of 2011. The move was an echo of pre-bankruptcy GM, which used massive rebates to boost sales and sell out the capacity of its overblown factory network. The strategy helped sales, but GM’s first-quarter earnings showed that the new management team overspent: GM said the incentives lowered profits by $300 million. Meanwhile, Ford said its price increases helped its bottom line by $900 million in the quarter. “It’s unbelievable that after this huge taxpayer bailout and the bankruptcy that we’re right back to where we were,” says Jefferies & Co. analyst Peter Nesvold. I am depressed because GM was finally hauling itself back out of the gutter and now, because of its retarded Board of Directors, it's going right back in. Any man who extolls the virtues of badge engineering and thinks advertising is a better way to differentiate brands than design is going to drag GM right back into the malaise era.
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Nov 28, 2012 04:18
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Eh, in 2011 the GM trucks were 5 years old while both the Dodge and the Ford were new for 2009, you would expect them to have bigger incentives.
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Nov 28, 2012 04:38
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Throatwarbler posted:Eh, in 2011 the GM trucks were 5 years old while both the Dodge and the Ford were new for 2009, you would expect them to have bigger incentives. The point of that story is not that they put incentives on, but that they put on so much in incentives that it led to a significant loss for the company. And that this serious miscalculation is particularly ominous because it's an exact repeat of one of the bigger mistakes habitually made by the old GM, implying that they haven't changed at all in the areas that count even though the new CEO is hiring and firing top executives at an alarming rate. GETCHA PAPER UP posted:I don't think you need to get so upset, you clearly don't know more than that man does. Hmm, yes, let's build 120,000 instead of 45,000 of our extremely expensive, money-loser niche vehicle and then expect our specialized suppliers to throw away the contracts they've already signed with us and triple their production within a very short period of time without it affecting prices or quality in any way. I picked the number 120,000 because some dude in the elevator told me that 100,000 units means a car is a success, and I want this car to be a super-success. Cars produced equals cars sold, right? Just make it work! OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Nov 28, 2012 |
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Nov 28, 2012 04:41
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Cream_Filling posted:The point of that story is not that they put incentives on, but that they put on so much in incentives that it led to a significant loss for the company. And that this serious miscalculation is particularly ominous because it's an exact repeat of one of the bigger mistakes habitually made by the old GM, implying that they haven't changed at all in the areas that count even though the new CEO is hiring and firing top executives at an alarming rate. Well that's not apparent from what was written, does he mean that they lowered profits by $300m because they spent $300m in incentives? Or that their profits would have been $300m higher if they didn't use any incentives and sold the same number of trucks? Some of this stuff is just too simplistic. incentives aren't always a bad thing, that's just what you do when you need to clear out inventory and the competitors have a better product.
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Nov 28, 2012 04:49
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Throatwarbler posted:Well that's not apparent from what was written, does he mean that they lowered profits by $300m because they spent $300m in incentives? Or that their profits would have been $300m higher if they didn't use any incentives and sold the same number of trucks? It means they spent $300m in incentives, which is a huge amount. Possibly to the point where they were not actually making a significant profit per truck. They had to do so because not too long before, they decided to crank up their production numbers and overstock dealers with trucks, which was alleged by some to be part of a scheme to fudge their earnings to inflate stock prices.
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Nov 28, 2012 05:06
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Derp I read gud
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Nov 28, 2012 05:28
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The chev dealer in rimbey Alberta has 10 or 11 "ultimate gfx" 2012 half tons sitting on their lot this is the 50k Harley Davidson f150 knockoff. With a new model coming and that outdated pickups sitting unsold in a province with more pickups than people, gm is in for some massive pain. It's pretty much meet the new GM, same as the old GM.
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Nov 28, 2012 07:45
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Powershift posted:The chev dealer in rimbey Alberta has 10 or 11 "ultimate gfx" 2012 half tons sitting on their lot this is the 50k Harley Davidson f150 knockoff. With a new model coming and that outdated pickups sitting unsold in a province with more pickups than people, gm is in for some massive pain. I don't think they can hear you over the $16 billion in profits it has made since bankruptcy. Yep, same old same old.
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Nov 28, 2012 07:56
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ColdPie posted:What really gets me on electric cars is how they make them look dumpy as gently caress. I think it's the lack of a hood. I want it to have a hood that stretches to infinity, not look a minivan with its nose cut off. Tesla seem to be the only ones to understand that an electric car should be a cool car that happens to be electric, not an electric car like this is. I absolutely love electric propulsion. It's smooth, quiet and strong. But I hate the current capacity problems, the cost and the idiotic anything-to-be-different-from-ICE-cars styling. Give me a normal-looking sedan or wagon with a better energy storage mechanism, and I'm sold. I don't care if it's got batteries or fuel cells or whatever. I don't care if I have to charge it or fill its tank with liquid or replace a cartridge of hydrogen beads or whatever. As long as the propulsion comes from an electric motor, I don't care what feeds it.
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Nov 28, 2012 11:09
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Rhyno posted:Well Mazda, it's been fun but my true calling is coming Oh my. Oh my goodness. Could my next car be... a Buick?! 
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Nov 28, 2012 17:28
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Mazda 6 diesel is coming to the states! Sorry, Jalopnik: http://jalopnik.com/5963934/the-mazda6-diesel-is-coming-to-america Hopefully they bring the wagon, too, and hopefully used values aren't too high when I'm ready for a family car in 4-5 years.
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Nov 28, 2012 18:48
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Supposedly the CX-5 is getting that engine too, about time we got something in that class with a diesel.
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Nov 28, 2012 18:58
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Wish there were some more fun to drive diesel options to at least test drive before I bought my Golf. Better late than never though.
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Nov 28, 2012 19:08
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I want to be excited, bit it's Jalopnik. 2014 Mazda 6 wagon with a Skyactiv diesel and a 6-speed manual? If it happens, I'm getting one. E: it better have 445 ft-lbs.
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Nov 28, 2012 19:33
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ColdPie posted:Oh boy, the BMW i3 is at LA! The automotive industry is at least as much about fashion as it is technology.   With the premium electric cars cost right now, the best way to sell them is to make them into a fashion statement: "I have money and think that this is eye-catching."
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Nov 28, 2012 19:37
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Since it's a mazda it will somehow manage to get 18mpg out of a 2.2l diesel.
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Nov 28, 2012 21:42
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dreesemonkey posted:Since it's a mazda it will somehow manage to get 18mpg out of a 2.2l diesel. Considering it's being touted as a "Skyactiv" diesel it's probably safe to assume it'll be very efficient.
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Nov 28, 2012 21:49
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The Skyactiv-D certainly sounds awesome on paper. http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/skyactiv/engine/skyactiv-d.html Seriously, read it, it's cool as hell.
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Nov 28, 2012 21:56
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Interesting approach to 'why low compression' - you're basically making the tradeoff of drastically advanced injection timing compared to a high-compression diesel. If it really works out that well in practice, I bet it helps them lower the weight of the engine compared to most diesels since it isn't having to stand up to 16:1+ compression ratios with forced induction on top of it.
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Nov 28, 2012 22:05
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IOwnCalculus posted:Interesting approach to 'why low compression' - you're basically making the tradeoff of drastically advanced injection timing compared to a high-compression diesel. Mazda claims that the weight savings in the block alone is almost 55 pounds over their current 2.2L diesel; the lower stresses in the Skyactiv-D allow them to use an aluminum block instead of cast iron. They did have a short paragraph going into some of the weight savings in the link posted above: quote:Due to its low compression ratio, the maximum in-cylinder combustion pressure for SKYACTIV-D is lower than the current diesel, realizing significant weight reduction through structural optimization.
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Nov 28, 2012 22:33
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Mazda's Skyactiv stuff is kind of mind-bending. Gasoline engine? gently caress it, 14.0:1 compression. Diesel engine? gently caress it, 14.0:1 compression.
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Nov 28, 2012 22:34
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Phone posted:I want to be excited, bit it's Jalopnik. 2014 Mazda 6 wagon with a Skyactiv diesel and a 6-speed manual? If it happens, I'm getting one. Unless anything has changed, the Wagon isn't slated for US release. 
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Nov 29, 2012 00:20
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2014 Cayman at LA http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2014-porsche-cayman-la-2012/  ugh, this is the worst color/lighting combination - it really hides the curves and just looks meh. But I think I like the overall shape. Hog Obituary fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Nov 29, 2012 |
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Nov 29, 2012 00:22
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Platform sharing is absolutely the key to success in the future so in that sense Akerson is 100% correct. The key is developing modular and flexible architecture (Ford, VW, Subaru to an extent) that allows you to build lots of things off the same platform that aren't immediately identifiable as the same product. I like what GM did with the Cruze and Verano - that's a pretty good share of engineering resources. We'll see if they can keep doing that or if they go back to Old GM Badge Engineering. But Akerson is absolutely correct that you can't have twelve distinct platforms in one market and be successful.
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Nov 29, 2012 01:05
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dreesemonkey posted:Since it's a mazda it will somehow manage to get 18mpg out of a 2.2l diesel. I don't get it. Mazdas, aside from the Wankel-powered coupes, are just as efficient as others in their class, no?
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Nov 29, 2012 01:21
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Platform sharing is absolutely the key to success in the future so in that sense Akerson is 100% correct. The key is developing modular and flexible architecture (Ford, VW, Subaru to an extent) that allows you to build lots of things off the same platform that aren't immediately identifiable as the same product. What quote are you talking about here? Because in the one I'm talking about (I'm trying to find it now), Akerson's complaint was that they spent too much money on sheetmetal and engineering differentiation between platform shares, and that the company cares too much about design and engineering when better marketing will do. Also, 12 platforms isn't really that many when you're talking about a full lineup. The current GM count worldwide is about 30, and their announced plan has been to cut down to 14 by 2018. Of course, a lot of that really comes down to your definition of "platform" since some degree of parts and engineering sharing between platforms is a given, especially at GM. The list of automakers that don't do extensive platform sharing is zero. The problem is when you try to skimp on the design differentiation between mainstream and premium models, or when the engineering is lacking and you end up with horribly overweight small cars or large cars with tiny wheelbases and massive overhangs. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Nov 29, 2012 |
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Nov 29, 2012 01:22
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The Fiat 500L is made in Serbia
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Nov 29, 2012 01:30
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angryhampster posted:I don't get it. Mazdas, aside from the Wankel-powered coupes, are just as efficient as others in their class, no? Well, speaking from experience, my 03 Protege gets around 22 around town, maybe 26-28 on the highway. Contemporary Civics and Corollas were easily hitting mid 30s. Granted mine is a Speed and I have a lead foot, but poo poo, I was getting similar numbers out of my old Taurus.
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Nov 29, 2012 02:01
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Since everyone else has seemingly rediscovered the benefits of diesel, I hope Fiatsler will also put the VM 3.0TD in the Charger and 300 in addition to the trucks and suvs that are getting it. The Chryslers in Europe already have it, so it shouldn't cost prohibitive to add it as an option in the states. That mill should get some nice gas mileage when combined with the 8 speed.
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Nov 29, 2012 02:32
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Fucknag posted:Well, speaking from experience, my 03 Protege gets around 22 around town, maybe 26-28 on the highway. Contemporary Civics and Corollas were easily hitting mid 30s. Granted mine is a Speed and I have a lead foot, but poo poo, I was getting similar numbers out of my old Taurus. Ahh..guess I can't speak for the older models. My '04 6i (with the 4-cylinder) gets around 31 on the highway and 25 in town. Perfectly acceptable for a mid-sized sedan.
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Nov 29, 2012 02:43
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Tekne posted:Since everyone else has seemingly rediscovered the benefits of diesel, I hope Fiatsler will also put the VM 3.0TD in the Charger and 300 in addition to the trucks and suvs that are getting it. The Chryslers in Europe already have it, so it shouldn't cost prohibitive to add it as an option in the states. That mill should get some nice gas mileage when combined with the 8 speed. I doubt it. The big cost of bringing diesels over is the emissions equipment, and EU diesel emissions regulations are moving to become in line with American ones, not the other way around, so we should expect diesels to be more or less outlawed in Europe too within the next decade. Diesels make zero economic sense for American cars. The higher cost of the fuel is one thing, the massive cost of both producing and maintaining the emissions and fuel injection equipment, plus the additional expense of the engines themselves completely outweigh any savings in fuel. Mark Fields at Ford has come out and said it multiple times that Ford will not bring any of their car diesel stuff to North America and they are right. The case for a diesel GC might be there, being a huge and expensive truck, but it will still require the urea injection system to meet emissions requirements. EDIT: I really loving wish they would just ban all diesels for anything smaller than a tractor trailer and regulate the gently caress out of those. That poo poo causes cancer man. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Nov 29, 2012 |
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Nov 29, 2012 02:45
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angryhampster posted:Ahh..guess I can't speak for the older models. My '04 6i (with the 4-cylinder) gets around 31 on the highway and 25 in town. Perfectly acceptable for a mid-sized sedan. I drove a basically brand new '11 Mazda3 2.0 for a month last year while my BMW was in the body shop. I was shocked at how bad the fuel economy was - I got something just short of 10L/100 km in it (which is about 24 mpg) in mostly highway driving.
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Nov 29, 2012 02:49
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