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I'd put the marshal in a similar category as the trickster, in that both have rather lackluster abilities compared to some of the others. Many of the Trickster's are too focused around potions and the like, while too many of the Marshal's abilities rely on mythic power, which means that they seriously compete with each other for a limited daily resource. Casters and warriors have legitimately good passive abilities that they can keep using even when not loaded on power. For both the Trickster and the Marshall, I'd advise taking the Dual Path feat to poach from the Champion or Guardian or Archmage or Heirophant or something. Trickster does have the Path Dabbler ability, which means you can technically have up to three paths on one character. I'd personally recommend making at least half of your abilities be stuff you don't need mythic power to use, just so you can spend freely and still have cool things to do. Same thing for mythic feats, stick to stuff that provides cool bonuses when you don't have mythic powers. Dual Path is a really good feat, since it basically makes it so you can pick one path you want the capstone from, and then combine it with abilities from another path, which can get interesting if you start mixing in the right feats.
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Nov 16, 2012 04:19
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The abilities aren't just overwhelmingly mediocre for the most part, they're really, really, really loving boring. I mean what's so "MYTHIC" about "can pretend their skill roll is a 20" or "can actually move when they full attack if you haven't houseruled this already" or even "can use dexterity for attacks and damage." It's all just math bullshit. Nothing here adds cool. Where's the mythic trickster ability that lets you steal concepts and ideas? Where's stealing fire from the gods?
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Nov 16, 2012 04:42
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ProfessorCirno posted:The abilities aren't just overwhelmingly mediocre for the most part, they're really, really, really loving boring. Sounds like someone's been watching too much anime.
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Nov 16, 2012 04:53
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zachol posted:Sounds like someone's been watching too much anime.
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Nov 16, 2012 05:58
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Colon V posted:Or reading too much... mythology. Oh what, are you going to start mixing in fairy tales now? Keep you little kid stories out of my roleplaying. fake edit: Seriously though this whole thing is horrible. I don't understand it at all.
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Nov 16, 2012 06:33
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Well, there is one trickster skill that lets you use any skill in place of any other skill for only a -5 on the DC. Lying to that wall so you can climb it? Sure thing.
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Nov 16, 2012 06:35
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Eox posted:Well, there is one trickster skill that lets you use any skill in place of any other skill for only a -5 on the DC. Lying to that wall so you can climb it? Sure thing. Sadly that ability still requires the skill to use the same ability score. So you can't lie to a wall to climb it, but you can be a really awesome baker to search the room, since they're both WIS based. The Trickster path is just plain bad by my reading. If basically the only positive you can say for it is that it lets you grab a power from a different path, well. What's the point?
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Nov 16, 2012 06:39
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So, Aerial Assault. Either I'm really dumb or it's really useless. Maybe both!quote:When making a charge attack Aww yeah, all hurricanranas all day! Let's see what kind of falling damage we can do! quote:Creatures that fall take 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet Well, that's not fantastic but eh. I'll take what I can get. Let's just check the Acrobatics rules for jump-- code:
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Nov 16, 2012 07:08
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A level 10 ninja with the High Jump talent can get that down to a 1:1 and thus get a 100 foot high jump (maybe closer to 200 after other bonuses). Still, you're better off just adding that fall damage directly onto your weapon damage instead of adding half of it to your Final Atomic Buster. You might have a problem jumping higher than your speed though.
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Nov 16, 2012 07:13
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LightWarden posted:A level 10 ninja with the High Jump talent can get that down to a 1:1 and thus get a 100 foot high jump (maybe closer to 200 after other bonuses). Still, you're better off just adding that fall damage directly onto your weapon damage instead of adding half of it to your Final Atomic Buster. iirc any jump higher/farther than your speed just takes multiple turns to complete
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Nov 16, 2012 18:01
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Danhenge posted:iirc any jump higher/farther than your speed just takes multiple turns to complete So a human ninja with High Jump would take two turns to jump 40 feet at DC 40 to dish out an astounding 4d6 falling damage, assuming he also passes his grapple check? Wait, it's falling damage for half the height of the jump, so I guess it'd be 2d6? I dunno, I don't get dissecting rules (unless they're rules that let me blow stuff up I guess).
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Nov 16, 2012 18:15
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Malmesbury Monster posted:So if I'm reading this right, it's a DC 40 check to jump 10 feet, which equates to 1d6 fall damage, and a DC 100 check is going to come to 25 feet. Am I completely loving up the math here or is this basically useless? The numbers for vertical jumping in Pathfinder are really seriously hosed-up, considering how trivial it is for some classes (monk in particular) to jump 60+ feet horizontally even at a fairly low level. Though given that the current world record long jump is about 30 ft, that probably means that horizontal jumping is actually the hosed-up one, but realism can go eat poo poo because jumping across canyons is fun. Hell, improving the high-jump rules by reducing DCs would also improve martial classes (at least the ones that use Acrobatics) against flying enemies, and that would be cool too. On top of the fun of being able to leap up multiple-story buildings. LightWarden posted:A level 10 ninja with the High Jump talent can get that down to a 1:1 and thus get a 100 foot high jump (maybe closer to 200 after other bonuses). Still, you're better off just adding that fall damage directly onto your weapon damage instead of adding half of it to your Final Atomic Buster. lesbian baphomet fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Nov 17, 2012 |
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Nov 17, 2012 02:43
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Description for ki pool says "at 10th level she also reduces the DC of Acrobatics skill checks to jump by 1/2 (although she still can't move farther than her skill allows)". This means that you get a horizontal distance equal to twice your check result, and with the high jump talent a vertical distance equal to your check result (Normally 1:4, but halved by level 10, halved again by the talent). Walking is for squares, jump from tree to tree. Combine with Fast Stealth and you're some sort of bouncing blur. Pity it takes three tricks to accomplish.
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Nov 17, 2012 03:36
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A level 1 Human Dragoon (Fighter Archetype) can have Skill Focus (Ride), Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, and Spirited Charge. That's pretty interesting, dealing 3d8+3x(STR+ETC) damage at a point when the standard enemy is a goblin, gnoll, or low-level undead. You should loving paste anything you can charge. Start with a normal horse at first, then take a level of Cavalier at 2nd. Now you're not taking AC Penalties on Ride checks, and you have a mount that scales with your level. Mix Dragoon / Cavalier levels as you see fit, or jump over to Ranger at 3rd. Use Boon Companion to help make up the lost Cavalier levels by multiclassing. Favored enemy triples with your lance, and you could grab Two-Handed Combat Style feats to get stuff like Power Attack and Furious Focus for free. Or take Archery ones to complement your already devastating melee attacks. My friend wants to play a Mwangi who rides a Hippo, and asked me for help coming up with an interesting class mix, and I'm going to suggest this idea to him. See any holes in it?
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Nov 17, 2012 22:28
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Inverse Icarus posted:
Update on my Spellslinger Heavens Oracle mix. I was playing around with stats and figured that going from 1d8 to 1d6 isn't a huge issue, and being a Gnome had some interesting advantages, especially with the Heavens mystery. I looked around for Gnomes with guns and didn't find anything i liked. Lots of garden gnomes out there with guns, though. Anyway I spent some time in photoshop turning this:  +  Into this:  And I am so ready to play this guy. January can't come soon enough.
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Nov 18, 2012 05:17
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For the Dragoon, wouldn't it make more sense to pick up the leadership feat at level 7, and get an improved mount that way? A warhorse should be sufficient for the first 6 levels, and then you can pick a mount that's more or less on par with what the Cavalier's companion. Trying to mix the two classes doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. Devastating Charge is really the prime advantage a Cavalier brings to the table, and that requires level 12. Each level of dragoon delays it that much further. Dragoon's main advantage is weapon training and his feat advantage, which also suffers significantly from taking Cavalier levels. Honestly, my recommendation would actually be to make a Mounted Fury Barbarian. They're a ton of fun, get an animal companion that levels with them, and the mount gets access to all of the Barbarian's passive rage powers, including Superstition, Eater of Magic, and Beast Totem/Greater Beast Totem. Mwangi even lets you get the human racial bonus to superstition. +9 to all spell/SLA/SU saves at level 12? For both you and your mount? Hell yes. It also makes a hell of a lot more sense to me to be a hippo-riding barbarian, than a hippo-riding knight. Edit: I've got an idea in mind for a Fighter build, and I'm curious whether it would work the way I'm imagining it. It would be for the Foehammer Dwarven Fighter archetype. I'd wield a Dwarven Longhammer pretty much exclusively until level 9. At level 9, I get Rhythmic Blows: quote:At 9th level, each time that a foehammer hits a target, he gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls against that target. This bonus stacks with each hit against that target, but lasts only until the end of the foehammer's turn. I'd still use the Longhammer initially in combat, using it to make AoO's against enemies that tried to close with me. Then I'd drop it, use the Quick Draw feat to draw two hammers, and start making full attack actions with TWF/ITWF to get in 5+ swings on my opponent. At best, I'd attack at -2/-1/0/-4/-3, assuming Light Hammers, or -4/-3/-2/-6/-5 with Warhammers. For each successful attack of Opportunity I made during the opponent's turns, I'd get an extra +1, and for each missed attack in the action the subsequent would get a -1 penalty. Our DM likes to give very strong point buys, 28+, so I'd pretty easily be able to get the 17 dex necessary. I've got several questions. Would it be worth diverting two ability increases from dex over to strength, to get Greater TWF? Am I going to be too far behind with so many different weapons, each wanting enhancement bonuses? And assuming I my weapons are all just as enhanced as that of a single-weapon fighter would be, how well will my damage compare to other builds, like Two-handed, or Sword and Board? Somnolent49 fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Nov 18, 2012 |
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Nov 18, 2012 07:28
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I'm still freaking out over that Oracle / Spellslinger / MT character. I realized that I could take the Deaf Curse and then cast silence as a 2nd level Oracle spell without affecting myself, which is neat. It'd be fun to have it on my gun or myself, and then roll up and blast a caster in the face, while simultaneously silencing them. It would also quiet the sounds of my guns, so I wouldn't be giving away our position if we were sneaking around. Silence...r. And when I get 2nd level Wizard spells (character level 7), I could cast Invisibility and Silence on myself, which is really interesting. How would enemies detect me non-magically? Scent? As fun as blasting people with guns, I could just as easily take some buff/summon/control spells and spend some time invisible. Also, if I'm going to be doing dumb things like Spellstoring weapons, being invisible could give me time to cast a spell into a weapon and get into a better position. It's a long time off, but at 11th I'd have greater invisibility and silence, and magical balls of lead would be silently spawning out of thin air and flying at enemies, exploding in great gouts of flame or surges of electricity, delivering touch spells. Inverse Icarus fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 09:17
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Inverse Icarus posted:
Any creature with blindsight or blindsense could still notice you. Vibrations from walking, scent, echolocation, possibly other things that I'm unaware of.
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Nov 19, 2012 12:25
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Dump a bag of flour on you?
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Nov 19, 2012 16:01
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Colon V posted:Dump a bag of flour on you? It'd be interesting to have the baddies flip that one on me, nearly all of my low-level characters have had a sack of flour on their sheets.
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Nov 19, 2012 19:50
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Can any suggest a rule set for running a large scale combat in Pathfinder? My players will be in charge of an army in the near future and while I've read through the Kingmaker rules they just seem very math intensive. Ideally it would be something rules light where I can put some dwarves, vampires bugbears and knights out and not have a giant sperg fest over army stats.
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Nov 20, 2012 00:37
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Oh boy, here goes. Hey everyone. I'm pretty new to Pathfinder - I've been part of a "test" run of a short dungeon-campaign-thing playing a smug axe-throwing rear end in a top hat of a fighter, which was our GM was doing to get everyone used to the system and it's foilibles. During that time, we killed a Darkmantle by throwing our Goblin Bard at it, killed something else (don't remember the name, some kinda floating head-snake-demon thing) by lodging a grappling hook in its flesh and turning on the big lodestone trap in the middle of the room, and made my character King of the Kobolds. I've gotten on really well with my group and my GM is awesome, going for "cool poo poo over maths" and hurrying us along when we end up wasting time blathering IC (we do this a lot). I'm going to go into a new, full-on proper extended campaign and stuff starting from tomorrow as a Merfolk Summoner with an arrogant "boy-king" personality and Captain Morgan the Ediolon (yes, the one on the rum bottles). I'm really enjoying my experiences with the system despite some of the dumb stuff it has, and I'm psyched for our next session. So I don't just leave this post with dumb gushing, I wanted to ask a question. As a relatively new player, and as a person who is bad at looking at stuff objectively, are there any pitfalls about the system I should be aware of? I'm well aware of the old Fighters Suck Wizards Rule thing, grappling sucks and some options are rubbish, but we don't really play in a manner that requires super-optimal parties. I'm looking to try weird things and I'm better at roleplaying that "roll"playing, although I don't mind either. In short - love Pathfinder, give a stupid newbie some helpful advice. Thanks in advance! 
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Nov 23, 2012 01:03
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Well, if you're already aware that Pathfinder continues the grand tradition of D&D: Caster Edition, and you and your group are already emphasizing fun over math, then the only thing I feel obligated to make you aware of is the fact that your summoner is worth two non-summoners. Basically, summoners are overpowered, and eidolons make better fighters than fighters do. The same could be said of animal companions, but that's getting into what you already know.
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Nov 23, 2012 02:32
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Make gentleman's agreements with your players; there are a lot of edge cases in PF and D&D in general that can screw up a game. Have then vet their characters with you, so you can help them out and see what they can do in order to design the encounters around it.
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Nov 23, 2012 03:06
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Paizo has some really nice discounts on the early adventure paths right now.
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Nov 23, 2012 05:41
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This is probably pretty nit-picky, but for things like Oracle revelations that say "You must be X level to take this..." does that refer to Character Level, or Oracle Level? For example: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/life Would you let an Life Oracle 1 / Cleric 10 take Lifesense if he took Extra Revelation at 11th level? Lifesense (Su): You notice and locate living creatures within 30 feet, just as if you possessed the blindsight ability. You must be at least 11th level to select this revelation. Other effects based on oracle level explicitly state it, such as: Channel (Su): You can channel positive energy like a cleric, using your oracle level as your effective cleric level when determining the amount of damage healed (or caused to undead) and the DC. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier. Spirit Boost (Su): Whenever your healing spells heal a target up to its maximum hit points, any excess points persist for 1 round per level as temporary hit points (up to a maximum number of temporary hit points equal to your oracle level).
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Nov 24, 2012 05:40
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As a general rule, abilities gained via a class the effects of which vary with level depend on class level, not character level, unless specifically noted otherwise.
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Nov 24, 2012 05:55
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LongDarkNight posted:Can any suggest a rule set for running a large scale combat in Pathfinder? My players will be in charge of an army in the near future and while I've read through the Kingmaker rules they just seem very math intensive. Ideally it would be something rules light where I can put some dwarves, vampires bugbears and knights out and not have a giant sperg fest over army stats. If you want to keep it rules light and focused on the players, do what adventure/fantasy fiction has always done: make the battle a backdrop for some kind of smaller-scale, focused quest. Before the battle, your players work to fortify the defenses, rally the troops, and muster reluctant allies. While the armies do their thing, your players lead a small special-forces raid deep into enemy territory, assassinate the enemy general, deliver the ring to mount doom, or whatever. Any large-scale combat in a D&D variant other than the original Chainmail rules is going to be spergy and math-intensive at some point. D&D is designed for small-gang combat with, at most, a dozen units or so per side. Either you're going to have to crunch a bunch of numbers to convert characters and units from a small-gang system to a large-scale one, or try to play a big war-size battle out in Pathfinder complete with stat tracking on every unit (and ludicrously overpowered spellcasters on a scale that makes normal Pathfinder seem perfectly balanced).
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Nov 24, 2012 17:56
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I've been looking and can't find it. I might be overlooking it though. Is there a ring of wizardry, but for divine spells? I'm guessing not, the closest thing I could find was a pearl of power but that only works for casters that prep spells.
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Nov 24, 2012 18:21
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:As a general rule, abilities gained via a class the effects of which vary with level depend on class level, not character level, unless specifically noted otherwise. I figured as much but asked my DM anyway, leading it with "extremely pedantic question here, but..." He ruled it was "more fun" to assume that it is character level unless it explicitly states "oracle level" in the text, but reserves the right to revoke this if something proves to be too powerful, but doesn't see anything bad so far. So, in our game... Whenever something says "You must be Xth level to take this revelation", that's character level. Coat of Many Stars (Su): You conjure a coat of starry radiance that grants you a +4 armor bonus. At 7th level, and every four levels thereafter, this bonus increases by +2. At 13th level, this armor grants you DR 5/slashing. You can use this coat for 1 hour per day per oracle level. The duration does not need to be consecutive; it can instead be spent in 1-hour increments. Everything but the duration is character level here. This changes a bit with my multiclassed oracle and now I have to re-examine the mysteries. I've only planned on 4 oracle levels, and I wrote off all of the Mysteries above that. Pretty cool ruling from my DM though.
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Nov 24, 2012 22:47
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I don't know if I could resist the temptation to power game that poo poo so hard.
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Nov 25, 2012 04:06
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I'm looking to run my first Pathfinder game soon, and the only issue I see brought up consistently is fighter/caster disparity. Are there houserules/free feats/class combos or PCs that people go to to help balance that out, or do you just try to find a way to deal with it case by case? And is the math in Pathfinder solid enough to avoid feat taxes or are there some things I should try to do balance wise? I love the flavor and consistency of Pathfinder over D&D, and the adventure paths are sweet as hell for starting me out. I hope to be in here often exploring this game with you guys.
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Nov 28, 2012 07:08
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Clockwork Beast! posted:I'm looking to run my first Pathfinder game soon, and the only issue I see brought up consistently is fighter/caster disparity. Are there houserules/free feats/class combos or PCs that people go to to help balance that out, or do you just try to find a way to deal with it case by case? And is the math in Pathfinder solid enough to avoid feat taxes or are there some things I should try to do balance wise? Make full attacks standard actions. You might want to give your ranged characters point-blank shot and precise shot for free. And making feats that apply to one weapon apply to all in a weapon group helps martial characters with versatility a bit so they aren't shoehorned into one weapon. Pathfinder is at its core a caster's game, but that should help a bit.
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Nov 28, 2012 07:12
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Legacy of Fire has "achievement feats", some of which are neat. There's one that makes all of your healing spells maximized when you case them on other people. That's kind of crazy. The prerequisite "achievement" is to heal 1,000 damage. Every point of damage you cause reduces your running total by 2. My DM said that he wouldn't count non-lethal damage against anyone trying for this. If I focused on buffing the others and/or dealing NL damage, and never dealt any lethal damage at all, what level do you think I'd be before I had healed 1,000 points of damage? And I mean legitimately, not like I bloodlet every night and heal myself back to full.
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Nov 28, 2012 08:49
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That sounds like a tedious pain in the rear end to keep track of. Are all of the achievement feats like that? If so, it means keeping constant watch of all of the possible achievement feats and tracking their progress just in case you qualify for one. It's also surprisingly video gamey for the system that prides itself on being the D&D that isn't like video games.
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Nov 28, 2012 09:01
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So here's the thing.Inverse Icarus posted:There's one that makes all of your healing spells maximized when you case them on other people. That's kind of crazy. It really isn't. Ask your DM if you can just take the feat. And, as Mikan said, the whole thing sounds convoluted and really annoying to keep track of. Achievements work in video games because you don't have to count out every 1 damage. The computer does that for you! Likewise, these sort of achievements don't really work too great in tabletop games because slowly keeping track of how much you heal up to 1,000 HP is really annoying and difficult.
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Nov 28, 2012 09:04
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It's about 223 uses of Cure Light Wounds, or 4.5 wands of them (Assuming 4.5 HP is healed per use). Assuming you go through 9 combats per level, and each character takes 4*level damage per fight and 4 party members. It breaks down like this:pre:Level Amount Healed in level Total Healing done Level 1 144 HP 144 HP Level 2 288 HP 432 HP Level 3 432 HP 864 HP Level 4 576 HP 1440 HP Or you know, you could just get your DM to set the prerequisite at level 5 and call it a day. berenzen fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Nov 28, 2012 |
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Nov 28, 2012 09:09
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berenzen posted:It's about 223 uses of Cure Light Wounds, or 4.5 wands of them. Assuming you go through 9 combats per level, and each character takes 4*level damage per fight and 4 party members. It breaks down like this More reason to just ask your DM to set a prereq, that math ignores the fact that each point of damage caused counts 2 HP against your total.
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Nov 28, 2012 09:13
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Fake it, find some Gnolls, beat them within an inch of their lives, and Channel that poo poo  But seriously, you figure--depending of course on your house rules of about eight hour rests; our houserule is full heal, and I personally wouldn't let you do this specifically because of that full heal (though I'd be down for like (maxHP - natural healing/rest), if we played that way)--you'll heal maybe 10 health, spread amongst your party, per adventuring day at first level? I'm not familiar with the quest line, but let's say you get four major rests per level and the amount you get to heal on average goes up by 10 every level. It'll add up quick as long as you burn your CPE before your rests. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Nov 28, 2012 |
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Nov 28, 2012 09:14
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Just say that before the adventure you and a buddy danced the masochism tango for a couple months.
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Nov 28, 2012 13:59
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