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LaserShark posted:I've gotten into the habit of watching the highlight videos on msnbc.com lately. I hadn't seen Morning Joe before and... my god, I thought I was watching Fox for a few moments there. So many smug hard-right bastards. What's up with that, if MSNBC is supposed to be such a polar opposite to Fox? Really? Maybe they just fool the progressives they are liberal during the evening hours when people get off work and try to keep the ratings higher during the slow hours by catering to conservative households.
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Nov 30, 2012 23:50
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I occasionally have to be at work before 6am so while i'm eating breakfast I like to watch msnbc and when i'm up that early I will choose CNN over MSNC because morning joe is so loving awful and full of rich white republican assholes its unbearable.
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Nov 30, 2012 23:54
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Kneel Before Zog posted:Maybe they just fool the progressives they are liberal during the evening hours when people get off work and try to keep the ratings higher during the slow hours by catering to conservative households.
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Dec 1, 2012 00:06
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beatlegs posted:My guess is there are conservative GE shareholders who agreed to let MSNBC hire progressive hosts ONLY if a conservative block were put on in the morning. The sad part is, it's practically "Fox and Friends", right down to the attractive blonde female co-host (Mika Brzezinski). And even F&F lets Gretchen Carlson do more than Mika does on "Morning Joe", as I've never really seen Mika get all argumentative or defensive with a guest the way Gretchen occasionally does. Mika's purpose on the show seems to me to literally to be there only
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Dec 1, 2012 00:16
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The thing about MSNBC is that a lot of their shows and personalities are just vehicles to promote the latest Democratic Party talking point of the day. In a lot of ways it very much is a Democratic mirror of Fox News' relentless promotion of all things Republican. Chris Mathews is the worst and most blatant about it, followed closely by Ed Shultz. All they do, day in and day out, is cheerlead whatever the Democrats are doing without any attempt at critically examining policy. They pepper that with the latest sound-bites of dumb things republicans said this news cycle and that's pretty much it. Remember that on election night Chris Mathews said that the hurricane was a great thing because it made Obama look good. That's the mentality, there's nothing really liberal or progressive about any of MSNBC's major personalities, it's just "my party, right or wrong." Of course you notice the crazy and stupid stuff more on Fox News, since they are promoting Republican ideas, which keep getting extra crazy and stupid. I just think both networks act as wings of the two major American parties and do little else. Edit: I should add that Rachel Maddow is a major exception to this. She cheerleads some but she really does try to delve into policy and its consequences in the real world and sometimes reports on stuff no one else in broadcast media is talking about. As people have pointed out she's very pretty centrist in general and she's a big cheerleader for war and and American imperialism, but she does have the smartest show on cable news. For what that's worth. Blastedhellscape fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Dec 1, 2012 |
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Dec 1, 2012 00:39
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MSNBC show hosts don't try to dress up what they do as fair and balanced - they are there to present their editorial views. Even Matthews encourages people to disagree with him and do their own homework. Also MSNBC frequently has leveled criticism at the Democratic Party and the Obama administration. They aren't quite the cheerleaders your post makes them out to be but your objections to their bias are valid points. I am very wary of what they say even though I watch the network.
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Dec 1, 2012 00:49
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Butt Soup Barnes posted:I don't watch much cable news but I thought over the past year or so MSNBC has been working to cement itself as a much more liberal/progressive network. Yes. Morning Joe isn't representative at all, he's the outlier on the network. The whole afternoon/evening lineup, from Ed Schulz to Sharpton, O'Donnell, Matthews and Maddow are varying shades of progressive/liberal. There has been a big change within the last year or so to make the network much more overtly partisan for Democrats/liberals, possibly gearing up to the election. I think MSNBC took a look at what Fox was doing, said "hey, half the country is NOT into all this right wing poo poo, let's grab the market on the other side of that since CNN is going crazy trying to be Fox Lite." From a business point of view it's a smart move. They grabbed a market that was totally ignored by other networks. CNN is stupid because no matter how much they try to have the Erick Erickson types on there, right wingers are always going to want their name brand FOX Kool-Aid, and will always call CNN the Communist/Clinton News Network because they aren't even going to bother watching it to see that CNN is trying to pander to them. The time when MSNBC had Savage and Imus on TV might as well be a thousand years ago, they have completely changed their philosophy to try and grab the liberal part of the market and brand themselves that way. They are being successful at it. Fox doesn't even have a token liberal show like Morning Joe is a token conservative show for MSNBC. Their viewers want to have that poo poo on 24 hours a day and they don't want their Hannity buzz getting killed by some liberal egghead. Hell they don't even have Colmes as a token regular punching bag on the Hannity show anymore.
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Dec 1, 2012 00:51
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TIME's Michael Grunwald has a good article excoriating the mainstream media for simply passing along right-wing talking points:quote:It’s really amazing to see political reporters dutifully passing along Republican complaints that President Obama’s opening offer in the fiscal cliff talks is just a recycled version of his old plan, when those same reporters spent the last year dutifully passing along Republican complaints that Obama had no plan. It’s even more amazing to see them pass along Republican outrage that Obama isn’t cutting Medicare enough, in the same matter-of-fact tone they used during the campaign to pass along Republican outrage that Obama was cutting Medicare.
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Dec 1, 2012 00:53
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So long as MSNBC doesn't try to confuse editorializing and opinion with fact the way Fox does, their show hosts can be as biased as they want - identifying the bias and admitting to it means you have space to disagree and do your own thinking. MSNBC has its problems, but Morning Joe is a hell of a lot better than pretty much all of Fox's programming in spite of being an outlier - because even if I disagree, I feel like I have breathing room to do so. Same goes with all the liberal hosts.
Spacedad fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Dec 1, 2012 |
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Dec 1, 2012 00:55
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Blastedhellscape posted:Remember that on election night Chris Mathews said that the hurricane was a great thing because it made Obama look good. That's the mentality, That's a comical broadbrush you're using there. It was late, Matthews was punchy, he made a very emotional apology the next day, and (as far as I know) no other MSNBC host has ever expressed that kind of sentiment.
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Dec 1, 2012 00:59
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DaveWoo posted:TIME's Michael Grunwald has a good article excoriating the mainstream media for simply passing along right-wing talking points: It's nice to FINALLY see this in the mainstream. I've been shouting this from the rooftops for 6 years at least, but Glen Greenwald has been the only person willing to say it in print. "Some say the sky is blue, but others disagree". Your job as a journalist is to find out what the truth is, not present "the sky is purple" on the same footing as "the sky is blue".
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Dec 1, 2012 01:18
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Spacedad posted:MSNBC show hosts don't try to dress up what they do as fair and balanced - they are there to present their editorial views. Even Matthews encourages people to disagree with him and do their own homework. Also MSNBC frequently has leveled criticism at the Democratic Party and the Obama administration. They aren't quite the cheerleaders your post makes them out to be but your objections to their bias are valid points. I am very wary of what they say even though I watch the network. It's like the saying goes: when Republicans get bad news, they want to kill the messenger; when Democrats get bad news, they want to kill themselves. All you need to do is look at the debates for proof. Obama flubs the first debate, and right away Matthews and other liberal pundits were ready to hand the race to Romney then and there, all the while excoriating Obama and his team for not practicing or taking the debate seriously enough. When Romney got whipped in the remaining two debates, and Ryan got whipped in the VP debate, did the Republicans collapse in a fit of weeping and garment-rending, claiming that Romney had lost them the election, the same way Matthews and others cried about Obama? Did they gently caress. They immediately blamed everyone within sight: the debate moderators, the liberal media, the audience in the "town hall"-style debate, and on and on right up to Obama and Biden themselves. The only people they did not blame were the guys on their side: Romney and Ryan. They even went further; rather than claiming Romney and Ryan's losses in the debates might have handed Obama and Biden victory on Nov. 6, they instead claimed that Americans would be "turned off" by the Democrat ticket, because Obama and Biden were acting like smug "un-presidential" assholes. MSNBC has a liberal slant that is undeniable, but to say they're even remotely as bad with their slant as Fox News is with their conservative bias is disingenuous, to say the least. Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Dec 1, 2012 |
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Dec 1, 2012 01:20
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Conservatives operate within a self-created bubble where denial is their only means of coping in the face of an actual reality that doesn't mesh with their own. This is why they're losing elections. They're so caught up in their own ideological wants that they're blind to the wants of their constituents. And by refusing to confront them with their own deluded bullshit, the mainstream press keeps the dysfunction alive with their "fair and balanced" obsession which dictates that both sides are, by default, equally extreme/hypocritical/dishonest, which in turn validates the Republicans' worldview and keeps the sick cycle alive. Rupert Murdock is now positioning to buy out the LA Times and Chicago Tribune, and the FCC is going to let him: http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/13051-obamas-fcc-set-to-give-rupert-murdoch-a-media-monopoly Nice, huh?
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Dec 1, 2012 01:38
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beatlegs posted:That's a comical broadbrush you're using there. It was late, Matthews was punchy, he made a very emotional apology the next day, and (as far as I know) no other MSNBC host has ever expressed that kind of sentiment. Yeah, you're probably right. It really doesn't compare to the quantity of outrageous poo poo that people say on Fox on a regular basis, and I can't imagine a Fox News personality ever actually apologizing for anything they've said.
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Dec 1, 2012 01:40
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Zwabu posted:Yes. Morning Joe isn't representative at all, he's the outlier on the network. Well, Fox News does have a token liberal on that show The Five. It's also one of the most vile shows on there, if it wasn't on Fox News I'd assume it was some kind of satire. The dude also will go on the other programs to get yelled at. He has to get paid an enormous sum of money to listen to that poo poo over and over.
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Dec 1, 2012 02:05
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beatlegs posted:Conservatives operate within a self-created bubble where denial is their only means of coping in the face of an actual reality that doesn't mesh with their own. This is why they're losing elections. They're so caught up in their own ideological wants that they're blind to the wants of their constituents. And by refusing to confront them with their own deluded bullshit, the mainstream press keeps the dysfunction alive with their "fair and balanced" obsession which dictates that both sides are, by default, equally extreme/hypocritical/dishonest, which in turn validates the Republicans' worldview and keeps the sick cycle alive.
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Dec 1, 2012 02:12
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Lord Lambeth posted:I don't know why the government doesn't smash apart the Murdoch empire like they did with AT&T. Because too many Republicans are in bed with Fox News, since it's literally their party's propaganda wing. Being so closely tied to Murdoch isn't quite as dangerous to politicians in the US as it is to UK politicians (at least, not yet anyways), what with the whole phone hacking scandal that's been shaking the foundations of his British empire.
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Dec 1, 2012 02:29
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Lord Lambeth posted:I don't know why the government doesn't smash apart the Murdoch empire like they did with AT&T. In the age of deregulation it would have no impact. AT&T has basically reconstituted itself in the intervening years.  There's no political will to break up monopolies anymore, and they'd just remake themselves unless proper market controls were also put in place at the same time.
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Dec 1, 2012 02:30
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Also, Murdoch has a more effective lobbying operation than AT&T did. I mean, this is Obama's FCC.
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Dec 1, 2012 02:31
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Ramadu posted:Well, Fox News does have a token liberal on that show The Five. It's also one of the most vile shows on there, if it wasn't on Fox News I'd assume it was some kind of satire. The dude also will go on the other programs to get yelled at. He has to get paid an enormous sum of money to listen to that poo poo over and over. It's hard for me to decide which show is more vile - The Five, or Fox & Friends. Something about the way Steve Doocy, Gretchen Carlson, and Brian Kilmeade brainlessly spew hateful garbage whilst maintaining goofy and happy on-air personalities makes them a new and improved sort of vile.
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Dec 1, 2012 02:54
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NVaderJ posted:It's hard for me to decide which show is more vile - The Five, or Fox & Friends. Something about the way Steve Doocy, Gretchen Carlson, and Brian Kilmeade brainlessly spew hateful garbage whilst maintaining goofy and happy on-air personalities makes them a new and improved sort of vile. My first exposure to fox and friends was them un-ironically claiming that nuclear energy is a 'green job.' Well, radioactive waste might wind up making you glow green at least... The level of general ignorance that everyone on that loving network operates with or presumes of its audience is pretty insulting. Not to me so much, but more to their core audience, who they constantly jerk around with made-up bullshit. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Dec 1, 2012 |
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Dec 1, 2012 03:00
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MSNBC gets better on the weekend because of Chris Hayes  I forgot if it was after one of the debates or what, but welfare in general came up because of Romney's attacks on Obama's non existent gutting of the work requirement and Hayes piped in with essentially "I'll go further than most people and say both the work requirements and the time limits are BS and should be gotten rid of, but that's another story compared to the fact despite poverty continually going up, the TANF rolls have continued to go down after bloc granting the program." Also Melissa Harris-Perry always seems pretty rad.
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Dec 1, 2012 03:23
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Zwabu posted:I think MSNBC took a look at what Fox was doing, said "hey, half the country is NOT into all this right wing poo poo, let's grab the market on the other side of that since CNN is going crazy trying to be Fox Lite." The problem is that half of the country doesn't respond as strongly and exclusively to appeals to the id.
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Dec 1, 2012 03:39
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ErIog posted:In the age of deregulation it would have no impact. AT&T has basically reconstituted itself in the intervening years. That's not what that image shows. The current AT&T holds 39% of the landline market when the old AT&T held 95%. Additional to that AT&T holds 34% of the cell phone market. People need to stop loving saying AT&T totally rebuilt itself when they can't even get to 40% of the market in anything. Jesus christ. And while I'm at it, the Baby Bells never provided meaningful landline competition with each other, by design. Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Dec 1, 2012 |
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Dec 1, 2012 05:28
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I'm not a huge fan of Chris Hayes (especially since I keep confusing him with Chris Hedges who is a thousand times more awesome). But I was impressed to see that clip where his panel questioned the idea that every soldier is a hero. He called down fire and brimstone for it of course, and he had to apologize, prostrate himself and genuflect before the God of 9/11, but at least he tried. e: And I forgot, he did it the day before Memorial Day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPJwq2RrsZc woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Dec 1, 2012 |
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Dec 1, 2012 06:02
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Sydney Bottocks posted:It's like the saying goes: when Republicans get bad news, they want to kill the messenger; when Democrats get bad news, they want to kill themselves. One fun version of this was during the Republican primaries, where they had to simultaneously shill for each of the candidates. When one candidate attacked or came up with dirt on another, they had to pretend it came from Democrats.
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Dec 1, 2012 07:29
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NVaderJ posted:It's hard for me to decide which show is more vile - The Five, or Fox & Friends. Something about the way Steve Doocy, Gretchen Carlson, and Brian Kilmeade brainlessly spew hateful garbage whilst maintaining goofy and happy on-air personalities makes them a new and improved sort of vile. The Five really gets under my skin. Greg Gutfeld is a twat of a failed comedian. Edgy conservative humor is the worst. Besides that, discussion on the show means taking turns interrupting Bob Beckel until he clams up, folds his arms, and spends the rest of the show with a scowl on his face, chucking the odd quip at Eric Bolling. Dana Perino is a former Bush staffer, and I mean that in the most appropriate and negative way possible. Then there's some other woman who's face changes seemingly at random, but everything else about her remains exactly the same. Its kind of creepy. gently caress that show. Typical Pubbie fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Dec 1, 2012 |
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Dec 1, 2012 09:41
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Ramadu posted:Well, Fox News does have a token liberal on that show The Five. It's also one of the most vile shows on there, if it wasn't on Fox News I'd assume it was some kind of satire. The dude also will go on the other programs to get yelled at. He has to get paid an enormous sum of money to listen to that poo poo over and over. That show is so ridiculous. Everyone on it but the one liberal are hot youngish people and all they do is scream at this grumpy old man in suspenders for saying that gays should be able to get married or something.
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Dec 1, 2012 11:09
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I don't get what's so bad about Morning Joe. It doesn't seem particularly in-your-face about the fact Joe Scarborough was once a Republican politician. The show has a really moderate tone, in all honesty. The panel is usually pretty varied (I can't stand Danny Deutsch) and I've seen some decent guests at times. I'm not telling you it's a great show or anything, but it's definitely nothing like a Fox show. Even Joe Scarborough seems to criticize Republicans more often than not. Maybe it's because he's not in Washington anymore and he's trying to come across as sane or whatever. I don't really know. I remember him being a lot worse a few years ago when he had an evening show. Greg Gutfield loving sucks. Man, I can't stand that guy. I didn't really know much about him when all he did was Red Eye and I caught it once in a while so I could see Neil Hamburger and Buzz Osborne as actual guests on a Fox News show. But this guy is INSUFFERABLE on The Five. His stupid face pisses me off so much. I think he just released some best seller about how lame it is to be politically correct. What a twat. I really like SNL's Fox and Friends parody. It's 100% accurate: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/03/snl-mocks-fox-and-friends-louis-ck_n_2070651.html turnip kid fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Dec 1, 2012 |
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Dec 1, 2012 16:47
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To be honest my issue with Morning Joe is MSNBC rewarded a murderer with a flagship TV show. I mean he's a shithead and all but the dude literally murdered someone.
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Dec 1, 2012 17:20
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Glitterbomber posted:To be honest my issue with Morning Joe is MSNBC rewarded a murderer with a flagship TV show. Thanks for telling us straight out you have nothing useful to say, ever. I mean this is "Obama's a secret Kenyan" level stupid.
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Dec 1, 2012 17:29
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Glitterbomber posted:literally murdered someone. You're thinking of George Zimmerman.
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Dec 1, 2012 17:34
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SedanChair posted:I'm not a huge fan of Chris Hayes (especially since I keep confusing him with Chris Hedges who is a thousand times more awesome). But I was impressed to see that clip where his panel questioned the idea that every soldier is a hero. He called down fire and brimstone for it of course, and he had to apologize, prostrate himself and genuflect before the God of 9/11, but at least he tried. Good lord, he actually had to apologise for that? That was seriously the most timid, cautious and neutered introduction to an argument I've ever seen.
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Dec 1, 2012 19:17
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i am harry posted:You're thinking of George Zimmerman. I was thinking more Glenn Beck. 
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Dec 1, 2012 19:21
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For those giving Maddow flack about military/foreign policy affairs, how does that fit in with this segment of her show on Friday? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#50034293 It's the first segment. She hits secret prisons, drone assassinations (in which she attacks Obama's use of them), the length of Afghanistan (in which she attacks Obama for waiting until 2014 to end the war)...
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Dec 1, 2012 19:53
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The guy who's the token liberal on The Five (Bob Beckel,) also said back when Wikileaks was a big deal in the news that the United States should assassinate Julian Assange. This is the man they trot out the most to give the liberal position on whatever issue Fox is talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rImgsRg-a-8
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Dec 1, 2012 20:31
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Patter Song posted:For those giving Maddow flack about military/foreign policy affairs, how does that fit in with this segment of her show on Friday? It fits in fine with the theme of her book which is that the military used to be for stopping fascism and freeing slaves but it's now being used for bad things like killing people in foreign countries. I'm sure that if one were to have a conversation with Maddow about the history of US imperialism she would most likely agree that our country has done monstrous things throughout our entire existence. But she certainly has a liberal patriotic streak that made her book, for me, an aggravating read.
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Dec 1, 2012 20:46
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800peepee51doodoo posted:I'm sure that if one were to have a conversation with Maddow about the history of US imperialism she would most likely agree that our country has done monstrous things throughout our entire existence. But she certainly has a liberal patriotic streak that made her book, for me, an aggravating read. In all fairness, if you are trying to craft an argument that will convince the most Jingoistic of our society, using the mythology of the great American soldier as a comparison to modern warfare is probably very effective.
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Dec 1, 2012 21:54
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Kiwi Bigtree posted:In all fairness, if you are trying to craft an argument that will convince the most Jingoistic of our society, using the mythology of the great American soldier as a comparison to modern warfare is probably very effective. This. We need more flag waving from the left, not less. Co-opt ARE MILITARY and the right loses a valuable jewel in its crown.
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Dec 1, 2012 22:22
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800peepee51doodoo posted:It fits in fine with the theme of her book which is that the military used to be for stopping fascism and freeing slaves but it's now being used for bad things like killing people in foreign countries. Speaking of not using the military to fight evil, it's pretty drat hilarious that the righty media has been pretty much silent on Rice's role in hushing up the Rwandan genocide.
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