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On topic, sort of: Also, LP forum dude, feel free to ignore what I posted after that about how any significant structural changes to the Senate (including abolishing it) won't happen in a vacuum. poopy pee pee fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Dec 1, 2012 |
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Dec 1, 2012 07:43
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Senor Gato posted:Would you support a racial and sexual minority quota in the United States government? Or are the only minorities worthy of such protection white and rural? Senor Gato posted:It's a good thing that the Senate is incredibly racially, ethnically, religiously, and sexually diverse, because if it were otherwise, your assertion that it defends the rights of minorities would be sort of ironic... The Senate's failure to protect minority rights in the past and present is deplorable, but does not invalidate the Senate as an instrument of minority protection (specifically, citizens of low-pop states). Occasional failures in certain fields do not make an entire endeavor a failure. Honestly, if this is the way you are going to respond, I'm not interested in continuing this discussion with you. This isn't really the place anyway.  (image leech fixed)
fool of sound fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Dec 1, 2012 |
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Dec 1, 2012 07:51
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Madison posted:The man who is possessed of wealth, who lolls on his sofa or rolls in his carriage, cannot judge the wants or feelings of the day-laborer. The government we mean to erect is intended to last for ages. The landed interest, at present, is prevalent; but in process of time, when we approximate to the states and kingdoms of Europe, — when the number of landholders shall be comparatively small, through the various means of trade and manufactures, will not the landed interest be overbalanced in future elections, and unless wisely provided against, what will become of your government? In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place. If these observations be just, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability. 
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Dec 1, 2012 08:10
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fool_of_sound posted:I would prefer that a person's race, faith, gender, and orientation had absolutely no impact on how individuals or the government interact with them, but your strawman and implied accusation of racism are noted. People will often think you are racist when you are willing to do things that disproportionately help white people, and disproportionately lessen the representation of racial minorities, but not things that would help minorities. That is sort of the MO of racist people, one would think?? You forgot my implication that you are sexist, homophobic, and religiously bigoted as well. These are just implications, as I really mostly think you are either from a small state or you are just one of the vast majority of Americans who uncritically thinks our Constitution is perfect as-is, only minor tweaks necessary. Also, I am sure you would "prefer that a person's race, faith, gender, and orientation had absolutely no impact on how individuals or the government interact with them", but unfortunately this isn't the case, and doing nothing won't stop it. Just as doing nothing wouldn't have helped if the big states all wanted to enslave the population of Rhode Island back in the 18th century. fool_of_sound posted:http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/composition-division You haven't even bothered to enumerate any possible way in which small states might be oppressed by larger ones without special protections. I can say that no such oppression would take place were the Senate to be abolished, and this is just as well-supported as your argument. Call it a draw for now?? fool_of_sound posted:http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/composition-division Hmm, looks like some people came up with a way to solve this whole big-versus-small states issue without even resorting to the creation of an anti-democratic extra legislative branch...  (I know this won't ever happen and the populations would change over times and yadda yadda yadda, but the Senate isn't exactly going anywhere either)
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Dec 1, 2012 08:33
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 One cool thing that otherkin do is refuse to engage people who disagree with them in any kind of substantive, extended argument, in order to prevent their opinions from actually being challenged. They usually do this by accusing others of trolling and then announcing they won't debate the topic any further, but theoretically they could accuse people of using logical fallacies (the strawman or composition/division fallacies, for example) as well. edit: You're right about bringing tumblr into this thread. I'll leave up my passive-aggressive point though, because I would feel a bit intellectually dishonest to delete it. Gettin a bit too serious about my dumb internet argument  VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV poopy pee pee fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Dec 1, 2012 |
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Dec 1, 2012 08:42
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Senor Gato posted:One cool thing that otherkin do is refuse to engage people who disagree with them in any kind of substantive, extended argument, in order to prevent their opinions from actually being challenged. They usually do this by accusing others of trolling and then announcing they won't debate the topic any further, but theoretically they could accuse people of using logical fallacies (the strawman or composition/division fallacies, for example) as well. I see the passive-aggressive point you're making, but please, for the love of all that is good, don't bring tumblr.txt here. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 1, 2012 08:51
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Hey, bad poster using "trollable.com" images, you could bring up that prior to the 17th amendment US Senators were appointed by state legislatures and the whole Federal system and it's pros and cons instead of flat out going "BUT MOB RULE  ".Here's a senate classic. 
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Dec 1, 2012 09:05
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 I'm guessing this is from some kind of intro to philosophy textbook: 
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Dec 1, 2012 09:08
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That looks more like a map for Native peoples rather than of population density, because Alaska certainly isn't getting two states. But the Senate was indeed intended to stagnate the scary wave of mob rule, along with many other intentional anti-democratic breaks in the Constitution. front wing flexing posted:Sex is sex and gender is gender. You refer to a person by their gender identity, not their sex or biological functions. Several pages back, but this is from the Bastiat Institute, a libertarian think tank. They made this to insinuate that income taxes are partial slavery and to advocate the abolition of all taxes.  Content: French Presidential election 2002, a European appreciation for good ol' American FPTP lesser-evilism  
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Dec 1, 2012 09:33
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Donkwich posted:That looks more like a map for Native peoples rather than of population density, because Alaska certainly isn't getting two states. http://www.tjc.com/38states/ Population density was only one of the criteria. I think he split up Alaska just because it is so big. As for the names, yeah, they were just going for new ones and local tribes are often a good inspiration. 
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Dec 1, 2012 09:39
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Does anyone have that Molon Labe/ Moron label gif? The flag of Nepal is pretty cool.  From wikipedia: quote:The national flag of Nepal is the world's only non-quadrilateral national flag. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Nepal#Flag_layout
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Dec 1, 2012 10:04
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If you want a good overview of what the senate is like at its best and its worst, I'd highly recommend this: Fantastic book, shows just how wide a spectrum the senate covers in terms of quality over time. I actually wish we had a similar system in the UK instead of our current upper house. Good God, it's so, so terrible.
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Dec 1, 2012 11:09
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At least you guys have a parliamentary system, even though it's controlled by shitlords at the moment. Red and orange are parliamentary, yellow is semi-presidential, blue is full presidential, brown is single-party, purple is absolute monarchy. Im That One Guy posted:The national flag of Nepal is the world's only non-quadrilateral national flag. Now only if Ohio seceded.
Donkwich fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Dec 1, 2012 |
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Dec 1, 2012 12:45
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Donkwich posted:At least you guys have a parliamentary system, even though it's controlled by shitlords at the moment. The parliamentary system, at least the way it's exercised here, is basically a dictatorship (with a modicum of "democracy" thrown in) with far, far too much power held in the hands of the executive, and most of it in the hands of the PM. Only get 35% of the vote? gently caress it, you basically can govern and legislate with impunity as long as you have a majority. We need AMS and the power for the populous to force a new general election. 
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Dec 1, 2012 13:08
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Experto Crede posted:The parliamentary system, at least the way it's exercised here, is basically a dictatorship (with a modicum of "democracy" thrown in) with far, far too much power held in the hands of the executive, and most of it in the hands of the PM.  (I know it's for AV but still)
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Dec 1, 2012 13:21
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Dec 1, 2012 13:22
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Senor Gato posted:People will often think you are racist when you are willing to do things that disproportionately help white people, and disproportionately lessen the representation of racial minorities, but not things that would help minorities. That is sort of the MO of racist people, one would think?? You forgot my implication that you are sexist, homophobic, and religiously bigoted as well. These are just implications, as I really mostly think you are either from a small state or you are just one of the vast majority of Americans who uncritically thinks our Constitution is perfect as-is, only minor tweaks necessary. Senor Gato posted:Also, I am sure you would "prefer that a person's race, faith, gender, and orientation had absolutely no impact on how individuals or the government interact with them", but unfortunately this isn't the case, and doing nothing won't stop it. Just as doing nothing wouldn't have helped if the big states all wanted to enslave the population of Rhode Island back in the 18th century. Senor Gato posted:You haven't even bothered to enumerate any possible way in which small states might be oppressed by larger ones without special protections. I can say that no such oppression would take place were the Senate to be abolished, and this is just as well-supported as your argument. Call it a draw for now?? Senor Gato posted:LOL thank God. The Debate and Discussion forum is no place to debate and discuss things. In response to another poster: I didn't bring up the pre-17th amendment Senate because I'm not sure that directly electing senators, as opposed to having them be appointed by directly elected officials in the same state makes a major difference in it's function, other than making it a bit more accountable. The image was arguably topical, would it have been more acceptable if I had rehosted it? Edit: Some research tells me that it would be. I'll be sure to do so in the future. Senor Gato posted:Hmm, looks like some people came up with a way to solve this whole big-versus-small states issue without even resorting to the creation of an anti-democratic extra legislative branch... All said, I agree with nearly everything you said. I just feel that marginalizing or removing the Senate without regard to it's intended purpose is not an appropriate way of reforming Congress. Edit: Content  2009 KKK rally (image leech fixed) fool of sound fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Dec 1, 2012 |
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Dec 1, 2012 16:45
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Experto Crede posted:The parliamentary system, at least the way it's exercised here, is basically a dictatorship (with a modicum of "democracy" thrown in) with far, far too much power held in the hands of the executive, and most of it in the hands of the PM. As much as I love the preferential proportional system here, the ballot can get ridiculous.  You can vote 1 single box only above the line, and that party gets to decide how your vote goes if you don't win a seat, OR you go 1 to 84 below the line to decide how you want your preferences to go. If you don't do all 84 it's invalid. This was for either 6 senate seats I think. Granted thats cause they haven't brought it into a better system like the state one where you can vote 1 to X above or below the line and your preferences will go from your first party/candidate after the preferences you set. Still a loving massive ballot. Especially for "compulsary voting" 
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Dec 1, 2012 17:09
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An award-winning, non-profit ad campaign by Big Ant International for the Global Coalition for Peace.     
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Dec 1, 2012 17:28
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La multi ani, Romania!  
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Dec 1, 2012 17:44
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 They didn't get a better deal.
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Dec 1, 2012 17:51
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Dec 1, 2012 20:26
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    HANDS OFF! Self Defense for Women posted:Note: (A) For the purpose of clearness the various movements in The Theatre Hold have been demonstrated sitting in ordinary chairs in the front row. Had they been demonstrated as taking place in the second or back row, the opponent's head would have been smashed on to the back of the front seats.
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Dec 1, 2012 21:12
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  "The Santerias of Buenos Aires display statues and stamps of a young woman who looks like the Virgin Mary, yet she is crucified and her body hangs from the cross, reminding us of Jesus. She is called Santa Librada, and her worship is very popular amongst the poor urban people of Buenos Aires…. The issue of Librada’s body is ambiguous: sometimes she has a well defined female body with full breasts and round hips… but in statues she often looks elfin, like a Peter Pan who will never grow up, as Jesus will never be old. Her clothes are similar to the Virgin Mary’s traditional attire, including sometimes a head cover…. Librada is neither Jesus nor Mary, but a dress, a cross, and superficial gender challenges which present us with a pattern of divine transvestism." Marcella Althaus-Reid, Indecent Theology: Theological Perversions in Sex, Gender, and Politics, 2000
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Dec 1, 2012 21:40
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Huge Liability posted:An award-winning, non-profit ad campaign by Big Ant International for the Global Coalition for Peace. Reminds me of these, which I'm sure I found here at some point. 
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Dec 1, 2012 22:38
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Senor Gato posted:http://www.tjc.com/38states/ "National Origans" 
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Dec 1, 2012 23:21
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/11/28/a-color-coded-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-emotional-countries/ Since 2009, the Gallup polling firm has surveyed people in 150 countries and territories on, among other things, their daily emotional experience. Their survey asks five questions, meant to gauge whether the respondent felt significant positive or negative emotions the day prior to the survey. The more times that people answer “yes” to questions such as “Did you smile or laugh a lot yesterday?”, the more emotional they’re deemed to be. Gallup has tallied up the average “yes” responses from respondents in almost every country on Earth. The results, which I’ve mapped out above, are as fascinating as they are indecipherable. The color-coded key in the map indicates the average percentage of people who answered “yes.” Dark purple countries are the most emotional, yellow the least. Here are a few takeaways. 
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Dec 1, 2012 23:24
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Ron Paul/Goku 4 prez 2016 Bring back LF. http://youtu.be/D3dW-e2UVnI fool_of_sound posted:Edit: Content 
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Dec 1, 2012 23:39
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Donkwich posted:That looks more like a map for Native peoples rather than of population density, because Alaska certainly isn't getting two states. But the Senate was indeed intended to stagnate the scary wave of mob rule, along with many other intentional anti-democratic breaks in the Constitution. the-left.jpg  her brother e: wow I had already posted that picture before. Oh well! SexyBlindfold fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Dec 2, 2012 |
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Dec 2, 2012 00:50
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Dec 2, 2012 01:43
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The ball is the UN and Israel is the little kid? Morgan Freeman: Reddit's Other Favorite Black Person (Other than Bill Cosby) 
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Dec 2, 2012 01:51
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Soviet Commubot posted:One might be forgiven for thinking this is somewhere in the South (apart from all of the snow) but this is a really famous sign from Detroit before the 1960s. Sundown Towns is a pretty good book about the way people of color were forced out of white communities throughout the USA through a combination of discriminatory housing practices and violence.   1921 Tulsa Race Riots 
hotgreenpeas fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Dec 2, 2012 |
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Dec 2, 2012 01:58
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This commercial was always crazy to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pblj3JHF-Jo
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Dec 2, 2012 03:03
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UP AND ADAM posted:This commercial was always crazy to me. Here's a interesting article from Al Jazeera about how crazy that ad is in reality.  A racist bus ad by Pamela Gellar, coincidentally one of the few conservative critics of Grover Norquist (because she calls him an Islamist), after it was defaced. She argues that the defacement of her racist ad is "a hate crime".
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Dec 2, 2012 03:17
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UP AND ADAM posted:This commercial was always crazy to me. 
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Dec 2, 2012 03:28
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fool_of_sound posted:snipped because my post is long enough on its own What is the Senate but a quota system for the less populous states? Racial and gender quotas, if they were instituted, would almost certainly be proportional to the actual demographics of the country, making them more democratic than the Senate, which reflects only the weird arbitrary boundaries a bunch of rich white dudes drew, often in an effort to inflate the number of pro or anti slavery states. Texas was nearly split up before it joined for just that reason. If that had happened, think of how different the Senate would be today, all because of a bunch of imaginary lines. I've asked you before, what sort of things does the Senate currently protect against? I don't think that a "big states ganging up on the little ones" type dynamic actually exists even in the House, and I don't see that sort of thing developing even if the Senate is abolished or made proportional to population. I think the Senate is a sort of anti-tiger rock, like in that Simpsons joke. It hasn't protected the small states, they never needed any protection of that sort in the first place. What sort of issues would the little states actually be opposed to the big ones on? What sort of tyranny will the big states impose? Is it that they get more funds than the smaller ones? Tough poo poo. They should, they have more people who need it. I guess I should say what I actually want. What I want, really, is not just to get rid of the Senate, but to abandon most geographically-based methods of representation in the federal government, as well as the constituency-based, first-past-the-post electoral system. We should have some sort of a national, party-list based proportional representation system, where the members of Congress would represent all Americans, not just a state or district. People would vote not for a single candidate, but for a party, which would have a ranked list of candidates that people could look over before the election. I think this would be much better because it would weaken the two-party system, and eliminate the need for representatives to spend the vast majority of their time campaigning rather than governing. As of now, representatives put more energy into bringing pork into their districts than they put into solving problems of actual, national importance. This is because they are only beholden to the interests of their home district, which are separate from (and sometimes even opposed to!) the interests of the nation at large. This results in a strange phenomenon where everybody likes their Senators and Representatives, but hates Congress as a whole. This doesn't mean they are dumb - of course you should like your representative, who fights to get your community money - just that the system is messed up. You'd be surprised at how little time Congress members spend actually reading and drafting legislation; they spend most of their time reading and writing letters to/from their constituents, meeting with lobbyists and constituents, etc., because face-to-face time with voters is more valuable to a reelection effort than actual governing is. So really, I don't just hate the Senate, I hate the House too! But, the Senate is, to me, a relic of an era in which the meaning of the word "states" in the phrase "United States" was much closer to "independent nation" than it is today. gently caress that. That idea lost in 1865, and again in 1965. So I hate the Senate more than the House. In any case, no real solutions are going to be forthcoming, because of the difficulty of the amendment process. I wonder if the states will vote to abolish themselves and set up new ones? Surely Democrats and Republicans will institute an electoral system that's fair to more than two political parties? Nope. No 38-state solution, no party list PR, nothing. Hopefully Harry Reid and the Senate Dems will get rid of the filibuster, and it will stay gone for good (no matter which party controls the Senate), but that's just one of many problems that needs to be solved. Sorry for all the  , y'all. I care too much about this. Original 1928 poster for the Threepenny Opera
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Dec 2, 2012 07:03
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Don't embrace fear, or something. edit: I just found this book advertised on a side-bar while I was looking up the price of something from an old movie.  It's called faith, OK  Also this happened today:  Mexico swears in president; old ruling party returns to power amid violent protests http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1296332--mexico-swears-in-president-old-ruling-party-returns-to-power-amid-violent-protests I'd paste the whole article but this is the pictures thread. quote:Leftist congress members inside the chamber gave protest speeches and hung banners, including a giant one reading, “Imposition consummated. Mexico mourns.”  Edgar Quintero fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Dec 2, 2012 |
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Dec 2, 2012 08:37
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Senor Gato posted:The House originates revenue and appropriation bills, so the big states already sort of dominate on that end. I live in Delaware. Our population is less than one million. We have two senators. This is Tom Carper, who was just elected for his third term last month.  One of Senator Carper's major priorities is postal reform. Carper cares very deeply about the USPS, largely because of one thing. There's a single mail processing facility in the state of Delaware and it employs a good number of Delawareans. It's located in the unincorporated community of Hares Corner. The Hares Corner facility was actually on the chopping block late last year. Thanks to Carper, it stayed open. I'm sure there's plenty of small government facilities in plenty of House districts that have their local Representative fighting to save them. However, none of those facilities have a two-term Senator keeping them open. This is a great example of how this little state gets an advantage from having two out of the 100 total senators working for about 1/5 of a percent of the total population of this country.
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Dec 2, 2012 09:53
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 quote:The Funeral of the Anarchist Galli by Carlo Carrà
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Dec 2, 2012 14:21
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Wikipedia posted:Giuseppe "Pino" Pinelli (21 October 1928 – 15 December 1969) was an Italian railway worker and anarchist activist, who died in the custody of Italian police in 1969 after being arrested. Pinelli was a member of the Milan Circle "Ponte della Ghisolfa". He was also the secretary of the Italian branch of the Anarchist Black Cross. His death, believed by many to be at the hands of the police,[1] is the inspiration for Dario Fo's play Accidental Death of an Anarchist.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlL2u8nv4tY
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