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Lurdiak posted:Hahahahaha, look how stupid you are. How about you explain your viewpoint instead of just writing a typical cool-kid blow-off and acting like your opinion is self-evident?
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Dec 3, 2012 00:25
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SpeedofLife posted:How about you explain your viewpoint instead of just writing a typical cool-kid blow-off and acting like your opinion is self-evident? Hello! Basically, it's fine to draw sexy ladies, but there is a point of ridiculousness, and a lot of comic books go past that line and way beyond! Here's the blog the picture was taken from. People are drawing Hawkeye in positions that people drew female characters in, and it's showing up how comically absurd these positions are.       See how dumb and non-badass it makes him look? See how a bunch of those poses are meant to show him either in pain or doing something cool, but it's skewing towards 'sexy', thus ends up awkward and kinda hard to look at? This is how women are portrayed all the time. It's annoying and we'd like something else, please. That ok? Kojiro fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Dec 3, 2012 |
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Dec 3, 2012 00:38
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Thanks for the link Kojiro. Some of those poses are just insane.
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Dec 3, 2012 00:47
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Misogynist is the wrong word but I can't believe any artist would look at that and think "Job well done." There's nothing wrong with drawing sexy women but if you replaced Psylocke with a man I doubt the page would have ever been printed. Someone in editing or whatever would have said "This looks loving dumb, change it." It looks passable because it's a hot girl and it emphasizes all the right features. I'm 100% positive the artist was referencing a picture of someone from a bird's eye view doing stretches. I can't think of any other application that pose in midair. e: beaten by a wide margin. I don't know why it took me so long to type this. al-azad fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Dec 3, 2012 |
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Dec 3, 2012 00:47
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The issue I have is with the claim that these artists are specifically "misogynistic." Do you even know that that word means? You're claiming that they hate women. That is a ridiculous claim to make. Say it's "sexist"; fine. But "misogyny" is way over the top.
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Dec 3, 2012 01:08
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SpeedofLife posted:The issue I have is with the claim that these artists are specifically "misogynistic." Do you even know that that word means? You're claiming that they hate women. That is a ridiculous claim to make. Abloobloo! Won't someone stick up for the regular sexists?! 
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Dec 3, 2012 01:12
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I'd agree that it's ignorance and stupidity rather than actual hatred of women, yes.
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Dec 3, 2012 01:12
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Superstring posted:Abloobloo! Won't someone stick up for the regular sexists?! Sexism and racism are endemic in America. I think it's fair to say that most Americans have AT LEAST a few opinions that could be considered either of the aforementioned. We are all exposed to the same institutions that propagate these views, and we all occupy a period of time immediately following a period in which both were openly sanctioned and encouraged. So gently caress off with your high-horse bullshit. Or are you prepared to say that you are the Man of Tomorrow - free of any prejudice? SpeedofLife fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Dec 3, 2012 |
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Dec 3, 2012 01:19
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SpeedofLife posted:The issue I have is with the claim that these artists are specifically "misogynistic." Do you even know that that word means? You're claiming that they hate women. That is a ridiculous claim to make. Eh, its kind of like Racism in that the word has evolved past just hatred of a such and such. Usually demeaning fits into it, just like stereotyping fits into racism even if they aren't technically the same thing. Edit: My point is you are to narrow in your definition of the word. VVVVV We can't judge because we are them? I don't know it was dumb. CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Dec 3, 2012 |
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Dec 3, 2012 01:20
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SpeedofLife posted:Sexism and racism are endemic in America. I think it's fair to say that most Americans have a few opinions that could be considered either of the aforementioned. We are all exposed to the same institutions that propagate these views, and we all occupy a period of time immediately following a period in which both were openly sanctioned. What are you even trying to say? Some people are sexist an racist and we have institutions that reinforce sexism and racism and sexism and racism used to be even more prevalent. Ergo, what?
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Dec 3, 2012 01:24
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Superstring posted:What are you even trying to say? Some people are sexist an racist and we have institutions that reinforce sexism and racism and sexism and racism used to be even more prevalent. I'm saying that if you want to condemn all sexists that you'll be condemning yourself and most everyone you know. So don't be so quick to imply that all sexists are horrible and shouldn't be spared any kind of grief and, instead, approach things in a more nuanced way. CharlestheHammer posted:Eh, its kind of like Racism in that the word has evolved past just hatred of a such and such. Usually demeaning fits into it, just like stereotyping fits into racism even if they aren't technically the same thing. This is a scare-tactic, plain and simple. Expand the definition of the negative word so you can apply it to as many people as you can. SpeedofLife fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Dec 3, 2012 |
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Dec 3, 2012 01:25
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SpeedofLife posted:I'm saying that if you want to condemn all sexists that you'll be condemning yourself and most everyone you know. So don't be so quick to imply that all sexists are horrible and shouldn't be spared any kind of grief and, instead, approach things in a more nuanced way. It's actually really easy to not be sexist, all you have to do is be a decent human being. I'm doing it right now!
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Dec 3, 2012 01:29
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Lurdiak posted:It's actually really easy to not be sexist, all you have to do is be a decent human being. I'm doing it right now! I don't believe you. Sorry.
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Dec 3, 2012 01:30
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You cannot condemn sexists because everyone is a sexist. Bra-loving-vo.
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Dec 3, 2012 01:30
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SpeedofLife posted:I'm saying that if you want to condemn all sexists that you'll be condemning yourself and most everyone you know. So don't be so quick to imply that all sexists are horrible and shouldn't be spared any kind of grief and, instead, approach things in a more nuanced way. SpeedofLife posted:This is a scare-tactic, plain and simple. Expand the definition of the negative word so you can apply it to as many people as you can. Not really, its more like combining terms for convenience sake? I guess you could say not getting bogged down in superficial technicalities.
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Dec 3, 2012 01:32
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I'm not literally afraid of homosexuals, so I can't be a homophobe. Is that the point being made here?
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Dec 3, 2012 01:32
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Superstring posted:You cannot condemn sexists because everyone is a sexist. Bra-loving-vo. You can condemn sexism. That's not a profound contradiction. But yeah saying "gently caress all sexists" is ignorant. blurry! posted:I'm not literally afraid of homosexuals, so I can't be a homophobe. Is that the point being made here? The point is that expanding a hurtful and severe word to encompass a wider group of people, when that word wouldn't properly describe them in it's current form, is a cheap and cowardly tactic. SpeedofLife fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Dec 3, 2012 |
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Dec 3, 2012 01:33
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SpeedofLife posted:You can condemn sexism. That's not a profound contradiction. You can't condemn an idea without condemning the guy holding it. That wouldn't make any sense. I also find it interesting because no one said gently caress all sexists, this started because you apparently didn't see it. Also gently caress all sexists.
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Dec 3, 2012 01:39
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CharlestheHammer posted:You can't condemn an idea without condemning the guy holding it. That wouldn't make any sense. I also find it interesting because no one said gently caress all sexists, this started because you apparently didn't see it. Actually you can, it's not very hard at all. "Love the sinner, hate the sin?" The idea's as old as the Bible. You're also saying that everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.
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Dec 3, 2012 01:42
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SpeedofLife posted:The issue I have is with the claim that these artists are specifically "misogynistic." Do you even know that that word means? You're claiming that they hate women. That is a ridiculous claim to make. I don't know if it shows outright hatred, but it definitely shows some pretty high levels of contempt. I guess that with some of these artists reducing the women they draw to literally nothing more than a chance to show tits and butt in the same panel is an occasional occurrence which doesn't reflect their actual opinions about an entire gender, but I find it hard to believe that people like Greg "All my female references come from porn, all two of them" Land don't regard women as innately inferior since apparently all they're meant for in a comic book is giving nerds boners. Do you also think that it's wrong to call people homophobes because it's not like they're scared of gays?
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Dec 3, 2012 01:44
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SpeedofLife posted:Actually you can, it's not very hard at all. "Love the sinner, hate the sin?" The idea's as old as the Bible. You're also saying that everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. On certain topics yes. Just having an opposing viewpoint does not make it valid. I also would not take ethics advice from the bible. Nor does something being old make it valid.
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Dec 3, 2012 01:44
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CharlestheHammer posted:On certain topics yes. Just having an opposing viewpoint does not make it valid. I'm not arguing about the validity of sexism. I'm just saying that saying "gently caress all sexists" is the equivalent of being an edgy teenager who goes around saying "gently caress people" or whatever.
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Dec 3, 2012 01:54
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SpeedofLife posted:The point is that expanding a hurtful and severe word to encompass a wider group of people, when that word wouldn't properly describe them in it's current form, is a cheap and cowardly tactic. Y'know what else is hurtful? Spending one's entire life seeing people representing your gender posed like sex toys for the sake of sales or--at best--incompetence. Sometimes things are going to hurt you and people are going to label you in ways that don't fit. The fact that you had to be directly shown why the Psylocke pose was ridiculous followed by indignation over your sense of pride and ego masked by semantics over the term "sexism" indicates a self-centeredness and oversensitivity that is ridiculous at best and pathetic at worst. Get the gently caress over it and quit fighting for a sense of justice you really don't deserve. Who remembers when this thread was about comic art? I miss that.  I don't know the artist, but this is easily one of the better renditions of Wonder Woman and her tribe that I've seen. I love the armored look that doesn't ape Kingdom Come like every other goddamn
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Dec 3, 2012 01:55
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The only thing that bothers me about those costumes is that Wonder Woman herself has the boringest set of armor.
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Dec 3, 2012 01:58
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mind the walrus posted:Y'know what else is hurtful? Spending one's entire life seeing people representing your gender posed like sex toys for the sake of sales or--at best--incompetence. First of all, you're a loving idiot. Just want to get that out of the way. Here's the breakdown: quote:Sometimes things are going to hurt you and people are going to label you in ways that don't fit. Translation: they fight dirty so I can fight dirty. Great, that line of logic always makes thing better. quote:The fact that you had to be directly shown why the Psylocke pose was ridiculous That isn't what happened. Re-read that part of the thread. quote:followed by indignation over your sense of pride and ego masked by semantics over the term "sexism" indicates a self-centeredness and oversensitivity that is ridiculous at best and pathetic at worst. Get the gently caress over it and quit fighting for a sense of justice you really don't deserve. Yeah, no. I tried to make a simple and reasonable point about prejudice in the 21th century. In response I got a bunch of indignation because "I CAN'T BE SEXIST I'M A GOOD PERSON I'M LIBERAL!!!!"
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Dec 3, 2012 02:06
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You tried but it doesn't seem you quite got there. VVV The same applies to you. CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Dec 3, 2012 |
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Dec 3, 2012 02:08
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CharlestheHammer posted:You tried but it doesn't seem you quite got there. I can't help it if you don't understand such a simple concept.
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Dec 3, 2012 02:10
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e. Cluttering up a nice thread.
The Worst Unicorn fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Dec 3, 2012 |
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Dec 3, 2012 02:12
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Holy poo poo if you want to argue this, post another god damned thread that will get gassed because of your awful opinions re: institutional sexism in comics. If you don't want to argue this then keep posting good comic pictures or bad comic pictures. Thanks Every page of Blacksad could be posted here  
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Dec 3, 2012 02:17
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Just enough of statements like these:Superstring posted:Abloobloo! Won't someone stick up for the regular sexists?!
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Dec 3, 2012 02:17
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SpeedofLife posted:I tried to make a simple and reasonable point about prejudice in the 21th century. Not really, you just tried to defended bad drawings of women made by nerds. Then apparently got angry at people finding sexism a bad thing, or using the word misogynist? Good show though.
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Dec 3, 2012 02:17
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Kojiro posted:Hello! Basically, it's fine to draw sexy ladies, but there is a point of ridiculousness I'll give you the rest, especially Land's porn trace, but how else do you draw two people crawling through a vent while having a conversation? And Wolverine looks downright annoyed when he runs into her in the original.
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Dec 3, 2012 02:22
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SexyBlindfold posted:Not really, you just tried to defended bad drawings of women made by nerds. Then apparently got angry at people finding sexism a bad thing, or using the word misogynist? Good show though. I got angry at people unfairly using the severe term "misogynist" to describe certain pieces of art and their creators. Than I argued against widespread condemnation of sexists (***not sexism****), because I believe that you would be condemning yourself and most everyone you know in the process, and therefore it is a foolish thing to do. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 3, 2012 02:25
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SpeedofLife posted:I got angry at people unfairly using the severe term "misogynist" to describe certain pieces of art and their creators. Than I argued against widespread condemnation of sexists (***not sexism****), because I believe that you would be condemning yourself and most everyone you know in the process, and therefore it is a foolish thing to do. There is nothing wrong with doing that though? Just because you do it doesn't make it right. Assuming you do. It boggles the mind that someone could not be responsible for the ideas they subscribe to, even if it is subconsciously. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 3, 2012 02:26
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Haha, you guys need to make a new thread to debate this before the mods get up today. Frank Frazetta art:   
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Dec 3, 2012 02:33
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Has Esad Ribić already been mentioned?  
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Dec 3, 2012 03:12
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What is that last one with the Surfer from?
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Dec 3, 2012 03:15
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Silver Surfer: Requiem.
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Dec 3, 2012 03:18
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ex-people posted:Love his Daredevil covers. This picture alone shows why i love Rivera.  Just so cool.
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Dec 3, 2012 03:32
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To paraphrase Spinal Tap: What's wrong being sexy? How about some awesome art work for an awesome artwork thread. Have I mentioned how much I love Andrea Sorrentino artwork in I, Vampire?   I heard a rumour that he is leaving the book soon and that is making me very sad. He gives off a bit of a Jae Lee vibe but I prefer his stuff as Lee can come off a bit stunted and uses the same poses very very often (though he makes very pretty artwork too).
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Dec 3, 2012 04:57
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