|
Our walls are glass. Glass walls. Walls made of glass.
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 18:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 22:07 |
|
|
Monster w21 Faces posted:Our walls are glass. Glass walls. Walls made of glass. Do they open? I was quite surprised to discover that what looked like a floor-to-ceiling window is actually hinged like a door for no discernible reason. We're on the second floor :I (Our walls are white, but in this unlit corner at least they are also covered in concept art.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 18:28
|
|
floofyscorp posted:(Our walls are white, but in this unlit corner at least they are also covered in concept art.) That was one of my favorite parts of studio life. I love walking down hallways and staying inspired by my coworkers. It's a shame a lot of concept art doesn't see the light of day, I'd like to see it presented as much as 3d art is in games :3 ceebee fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Dec 6, 2012 |
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 18:35
|
|
|
Monster w21 Faces posted:Our walls are glass. Glass walls. Walls made of glass. How many times a year do you get jokes involving either throwing stones or glass ceilings?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 18:45
|
|
|
RoboCicero posted:How many times a year do you get jokes involving either throwing stones or glass ceilings? or making sure everyone is wearing pants
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 18:48
|
|
|
White and purple with a bit of green. It's way more awesome than it sounds. I like how this thread is so easily derailed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 18:52
|
|
|
Not like anyone has work to be getting on with.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 18:54
|
|
|
I'm waiting on the engineers who are compiling the new build for tomorrow's milestone. That's my excuse.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 18:57
|
|
|
BizarroAzrael posted:Not like anyone has work to be getting on with. Pretty easy to post while compiling 
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 19:01
|
|
|
RoboCicero posted:How many times a year do you get jokes involving either throwing stones or glass ceilings? Never. We're not allowed to make jokes in the work environment.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 19:05
|
|
|
Always count on the game job megathread to never go nowhere on the whole union argument that comes around every few months, derailing this kind of important debate in the industry to talk about the colors of walls around you. It's quite a shame to say the least.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 19:05
|
|
|
We have walls made of glass, paper and white painted plaster. Some of them have spots of damp on them. Others have holes in them from where the coders lash out in anger. I don't think we're getting our security deposit back.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 19:06
|
|
|
Odddzy posted:Always count on the game job megathread to never go nowhere on the whole union argument that comes around every few months, derailing this kind of important debate in the industry to talk about the colors of walls around you. It's quite a shame to say the least. My nearest wall is a whiteboard. I have whiteboard walls  Also, if it isn't obvious, I really don't believe in crunch or exploitation of junior workers. I just don't think unions are the way to solve that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 19:14
|
|
|
there is a giant mural of two dragons fighting on the wall i am looking at now, no joke. nerdstuff. Seriously though, I don't know whether or not a guild model would be good for the industry or not. I believe very strongly, at least under the senior/lead level, that people should be paid hourly, should get OT pay, and should get quality benefits. I think one of the big problems with project management is that there's relatively little cost associated with OT at a lot of studios on the project management side, and good developers are eager to get stuff done even if it means massive OT, so there's really very little accounting for the time people work.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 19:14
|
|
|
All I know is that guilds only ever cause drama 
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 19:15
|
|
|
BizarroAzrael posted:Not like anyone has work to be getting on with. I'm on my 15 minute break.  Also white walls, concept arts. Depends where I am (I go from one to place to another often)
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 19:19
|
|
|
Can we please get back to serious debate on this comedy forum?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 19:19
|
|
|
Odddzy posted:Always count on the game job megathread to never go nowhere on the whole union argument that comes around every few months, derailing this kind of important debate in the industry to talk about the colors of walls around you. Double negative!
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 19:21
|
|
|
Irish Taxi Driver posted:Pretty easy to post while compiling Obligatory xkcd.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 19:29
|
|
|
BizarroAzrael posted:Not like anyone has work to be getting on with. I should be finishing up this Gundam model seeing as I'm unemployed and poo poo :I
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 19:34
|
|
|
Shalinor posted:Are your walls puce? SO JEALOUS. My walls are white . . . but at least I have a door with a lock so that people can't annoy me when I really need to be
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 19:41
|
|
|
Shalinor posted:Are your walls puce? I'll ignore the bullshit nibs you're putting on to get to the meat of the subject. You say you don't believe that junior workers aren't exploited in our industry but either you are being willfully obtuse or you simply haven't made a single effort to inform yourself. It is common knowledge that internships aren't paid in the industry, there is no excuse for this. You, like a ton of others were outcrying the whole team Bondi situation a few months back with the unpaid labor and horrendous overtime. But Hey! Unions Won't Solve Anything! Gee, I wonder... why did they start unions in the beginning? That's right, for those exact reasons. this isn't a lameduck example, it was just the worst of the bunch. (EA spouse in the past and it's different incarnations in other studios also come to mind) This thread aften falls on the sad news of this and that studio have just laid off the whole people working for them (sometimes in order to give bigger bonus cuts to the execs) and people close to management (Lucasarts are guilty of this) (and You've fallen for this too I believe right?). Before going forward I want to make clear that the debate isn't on ''should indies get unions'' which is a loving ridiculous concept and has no way of working out in real life. This debate, to me at least, is about AAA game development and big shops in the industry (think 40-employees and more). quote:Standards set in stone. Red tape. Bureaucratic bullshit. The constant negative buzzwords aren't bringing this conversation anywhere. quote:I don't for a second believe that unions can be put in place without tamping down the industry's culture. We'll end up with standard bullshit benefits packages, contractually stipulated wages and raises So? What's wrong with that? Knowing how much i'm going to make and how well this company with that union versus that comapany and another union is going to pay me is a great sign of transparency. And if the pay isn't great, gently caress it, why work there? At least you'll know. quote:
back this up please, i'd like to hear more and can't just take your word for it. quote:
Bootstraps much? I mean, it's great that you are doing the whole indy thing right now, but don't try and fool yourself that it's going to get better now that you haven't got ''red tape'' constraining your creativity or whatever the gently caress. If unions were actually a driver of lost productivity, you would have to explain to me why germany is one of the most competitive nations in the world (Source: the OECD http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=LEVEL ). There are tons of other countries that share the same stories. Surprise! They are one of the countries where the most workers are represented by a union in the eurozone. I hope i'm not too much all over the place in this conversation, but it's not easy as english isn't my first language.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 19:50
|
|
|
Odddzy posted:It is common knowledge that internships aren't paid in the industry, there is no excuse for this. We pay internships very well here, and we generally end up hiring or finding a place for everyone. I know some places that don't (Gearbox, for example), but its not 100% no one pays internships.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 20:19
|
|
|
Irish Taxi Driver posted:We pay internships very well here, and we generally end up hiring or finding a place for everyone. I know some places that don't (Gearbox, for example), but its not 100% no one pays internships. Ditto with us. I think we've hired every intern so far.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 20:30
|
|
|
I've had 2 internships in the industry, both of them paid. The vast majority of internship listings I've seen have been paid as well.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 20:40
|
|
|
Odddzy posted:I'll ignore the bullshit nibs you're putting on to get to the meat of the subject. You say you don't believe that junior workers aren't exploited in our industry but either you are being willfully obtuse or you simply haven't made a single effort to inform yourself. This is a language thing. She doesn't believe in it, meaning: I don't think that's right and I won't do it myself.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 22:33
|
|
|
While we're on the topic of "What's on our walls?", I realized I lurk in on this forum too much when someone posted this a week or so ago: ...and the first thing I thought of was Jan.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 22:36
|
|
|
Mega Shark posted:This is a language thing. She doesn't believe in it, meaning: I don't think that's right and I won't do it myself. Odddzy, I think I've made my position pretty clear, and you're willfully misrepresenting some of it and ignoring the rest. No, I will not give you a year by year breakdown of how the industry has improved. Yes, I included some humor in my posts - welcome to the Internet. EDIT: You see a very different industry than I do. What I see as horrible stories that represent a small and shrinking corner of it, you see as defining characteristics. My experiences show it to be getting better, yours apparently show it to be getting worse. No, we can't pin that down with specific cites - half of the industry's worst bullshit goes on behind closed doors, and "improved working conditions" doesn't really make the press that "CEO snorts crack off the boardroom desk" does. I could draw on increasing numbers of women in the industry, improved pay, reduced EA spouse stories, shifting press and developer reactions to said stories, whatever, but it would all be subjective evidence at best. None of that necessarily correlates to "better". EDIT: the only people I know of not paying interns are tiny indie studios. They largely exploit DeviantArt-level junior artists, and it irritates the hell out of me. Big studios have knocked that off, as far as I know, over the last 5ish years. EDIT2: sorry, this really bugs me, last thing: Odddzy posted:Before going forward I want to make clear that the debate isn't on ''should indies get unions'' which is a loving ridiculous concept and has no way of working out in real life. This debate, to me at least, is about AAA game development and big shops in the industry (think 40-employees and more). So. You join a big AAA studio, now you're a union developer. Oops, now you can't go indie, unless the union is so structured. Gee. Something akin to this is what killed indie film in the 1940's, to be eventually fixed in, what, I think it was the mid-90's. "SAG Indie" is the drop-in point for that google, if you want to hunt up the actual history - it's been a while since I looked it up, my memory is vague Shalinor fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Dec 6, 2012 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 22:39
|
|
|
What's everyone think of LA Game Space? I sort of wish it wasn't going downtown since it's usually such a bitch to get there from Westside Los Angeles during rush hour. Then again rent in Westside LA is kinda horrible. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lagamespace/la-game-space-a-place-for-re-imagining-video-games
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 22:46
|
|
|
Irish Taxi Driver posted:We pay internships very well here, and we generally end up hiring or finding a place for everyone. I know some places that don't (Gearbox, for example), but its not 100% no one pays internships. Same, I was an intern (Co op, whatever) at EA, and I know that the MS interns make good money.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 22:48
|
|
|
Buckwheat Sings posted:What's everyone think of LA Game Space? I wish I could get kickstarter to fund my office space! This $250/month/desk thing gets expensive after a while!
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 22:54
|
|
|
Odddzy posted:It is common knowledge that internships aren't paid in the industry, there is no excuse for this. I believe both companies I've worked for have paid their interns. e: and we've hired pretty much all of them on full-time, except for the ones who found other opportunities elsewhere. Sigma-X fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Dec 7, 2012 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 22:58
|
|
|
ttocs7 posted:While we're on the topic of "What's on our walls?", I realized I lurk in on this forum too much when someone posted this a week or so ago: And I saw that and thought, "Who printed out my avatar?" Funny that just the day this topic mentions office walls and whatnot, our producer has been going crazy printing out concept art and tech art screenshots and putting them up on our walls. It's nice, it suddenly feels like we own the place a bit more than before.  I've never heard of unpaid internships. My gaming internship has been paid, even including relocation to Vancouver! All my friends doing internships in the industry have also been paid. I'd rant about unions too, but I don't feel like gathering examples and documentation. So all I'll say is my personal opinion based on hearsay: that I have never heard anyone in my surroundings or family that have been unionized and had a good experience from it. No one is dying from crunch time, and the industry has already moved on from EA spouse-era abuse. The truth of the matter is there are still places with abusive work conditions, but guess what! The solution to that is also our best trump card when negotiating better conditions -- we can just pack up and move to another studio if we don't like it. The industry is constantly in need of talented people, to the point that poaching between companies is still a frequent thing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 23:29
|
|
|
I like some of what I read here. I'll adress my current view on the matter tomorrow during lunch. As for earlier, i'd like to take a step back and explain why I can act a bit more serious on the subject. It's just that I think that letting this conversation go on derails like last time isn't constructive and I appreceate the effort posts. If it was only effortless comedy that should be posted on the forum, why try and keep some decorum? I would understand on any other thread in games but putting a thread up on D&D about unions in the industry wouldn't get as much views than here even though it's an important subject workers here should at least talk about in all seriousness. I DO resent the fallacious argument that it's just a comedy forum when it talks about many more subjects than humor nowdays.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 23:40
|
|
|
When I hear people saying unions just flat out wouldn't work in the games industry, I get the impression that they're thinking of what would happen if you straight up install a factory worker union (or something) to this industry. And it makes me wonder what people would think a union specifically tailored for the games industry would look like. We know there are major problems to be addressed such as overtime pay, crunch time and worker turnover between projects. We know the Indie scene is a consideration that needs to be taken into account so they aren't crushed. What other things would need to be taken into account and how would you solve them in a completely theoretical union designed to help game industry employees?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 23:42
|
|
|
Generally, unpaid internships (in games) only happen when it's a part of a student's school program and they're receiving credit in lieu of payment (which would usually be paid towards the school).
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2012 23:48
|
|
|
ZombieApostate posted:When I hear people saying unions just flat out wouldn't work in the games industry, I get the impression that they're thinking of what would happen if you straight up install a factory worker union (or something) to this industry. And it makes me wonder what people would think a union specifically tailored for the games industry would look like. Well the closest thing is the Animation Guild for Television and Film. http://animationguild.org/ 401k plans, healthcare, and representation in great places like Disney, Sony, etc. It's also why those places generally pay the best too. I always think it's funny hearing stuff about 'union thugs' from new people in animation when they're probably not exactly getting the best benefits. Though for most of the smaller studios, I'm not sure how unions would work. I suppose more of a direct access to distribution would do wonders with steam for co-op companies. Valve is already sort of a co-op as it is. Same with Naughty Dog. Maybe that might be worth looking into?
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2012 00:06
|
|
|
ZombieApostate posted:What other things would need to be taken into account and how would you solve them in a completely theoretical union designed to help game industry employees? How would you solve them without a union? I saw a comment a few pages back about how there wouldn't be any massive layoffs if only everyone was a great negotiator, but the cost of people doesn't cause layoffs. The cost of people certainly forces the issue, but layoffs and other problems are outcomes of management failures. I think you have to attack these problems from different angles. In fact, that's one reason why I formed Entertainment Media Council. Hopefully, once my second book is out of the way, we'll launch next year.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2012 00:14
|
|
|
ZombieApostate posted:What other things would need to be taken into account and how would you solve them in a completely theoretical union designed to help game industry employees?
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2012 00:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 22:07 |
|
|
rope kid posted:Any aspect of game development that can be outsourced to a nation that lacks a unionized workforce for that discipline will likely be outsourced to those nations. In a unionized environment, the solution is to accept lower salaries and benefits in your discipline so that domestic workers are still considered to be a more valuable resource than foreign workers. In the case of digital product creation, this is more difficult than it is with physical goods. Agreed, the only tangible advantage to keeping domestic positions would be the benefit of having key talent on hand and in studio. This would likely translate to (in an animation example) a Lead animator, maybe a small handful of seniors, and outsourced animation for almost everything else to China or Australia. hell this happens already even with current environment. And it wouldn't be hard to find non-union artists to fill those positions. for what its worth I work for a huge publisher, get great benefits for both my wife and I, rarely work more than 40hrs a week, and get paid overtime when I do.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2012 00:37
|
|
