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KomradeX posted:Among the college aged group you're gonna see a shift from the social conservative types to more libertarian smug. I see it happening at my college (which is a CUNY so raging against the government while benefiting from it directly just seem so stupid to me). I could be wrong though, hell I know more than few libertarians of the Randian/Paul type that are fundie Evangelical Christians Any student at a public university (particularly if they're classified as in-state) who identifies as libertarian (in the now common "no taxes / socialism is bad" mode) deserves to be publicly and mercilessly ridiculed.
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Dec 6, 2012 14:06
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Walter posted:I suppose there's a certain Malthusian logic there. If our unemployed are dead, they're not really unemployed, right? Our unemployment figures will drop, and we'll be magically out of a recession.  This guy was just ahead of the curve.
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Dec 6, 2012 14:12
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Walter posted:Any student at a public university (particularly if they're classified as in-state) who identifies as libertarian (in the now common "no taxes / socialism is bad" mode) deserves to be publicly and mercilessly ridiculed. They'll argue that because their taxes go to paying for public university they might as well attend and get their money's worth, but if the government would get out of education and let the market work its invisible magic we'd all pay less for college.
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Dec 6, 2012 14:14
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Typical Pubbie posted:They'll argue that because their taxes go to paying for public university they might as well attend and get their money's worth, but if the government would get out of education and let the market work its invisible magic we'd all pay less for college. Their 18-year-old-high-school-graduate taxes? Why, those must be DOZENS of dollars! VideoTapir fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Dec 6, 2012 |
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Dec 6, 2012 14:24
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I've love to take what the average 25 year old libertarian pays in taxes and see what they can get for that in the private sector in regards to all the stuff they take for granted like education, roads, police protection, etc.
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Dec 6, 2012 14:33
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Lightning Knight posted:I wouldn't say "everyone else" is horrified by it. Step out of our ultra-liberal circlejerk and I think we're too often shocked by how we're really far into the fringe of American politics and how Democrats are too moderate and center-right to really combat modern American conservatism's moral rot on race issues (among... well, everything else). I don't think things are quite as bleak as you make them out to be. Sandra Fluke is probably a good example, where she was invited tot he Democratic convention specifically because of the attacks on her. Rush may still be the figurehead of the party, but his brand of vitriol drives of a lot of people, and demographics don't seem to be in the Republican's favour right now. In terms of social conservatism anyway, I think the pendulum is swinging the other way. On the economic progressive side of the equation, you guys are proper hosed  (Then again, probably so are we  )
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Dec 6, 2012 14:51
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Holy poo poo, that was great. Rush sounded like the epitome of That really was fantastic. The caller had one simple question, "why do conservatives worship Reagan" and Rush spent 5 minutes explaining it without ever coming close to offering an answer. You could tell Rush didn't even really know what the Greenspan Commission was or what it did. I'd like to see a few more of these types of recordings in this thread if anyone can find some.
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Dec 6, 2012 15:53
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until he was finally able to "turn" the call "around" on the guy (by dodging the question and attacking the questioner).
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KomradeX posted:Everything just seemed so bleak back then. I remember really coming of political age during those years and especially after the shadiness behind the 2004 election it was real easy to believe that Republican party victory forever poo poo they were spewing. This was exactly me. I enlisted in the Army right after 9/11 and was in training for basically 2 years and then deployed to Iraq in 2003-2004. I saw the election through the "Armed Forces Network" which is of course just Fox News and went from being a pretty conservative person (i.e. completely ignorant of the world) to a frothing angry liberal over the course of that one election.
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Dec 6, 2012 17:19
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BiggerBoat posted:
Unfortunately Stark's Calling All Wingnuts blog is dead, but some of stuff is on YouTube under StarkReports. Since O'Reilly pulled the clip from his website, here's Olbermann's response to Bill threatening a caller with "Fox Security" for mentioning Keith's name on his now defunct show. http://mediamatters.org/research/2006/03/06/olbermann-on-oreillys-fox-security-threat-bill/135024 No audio here, but as an example of what a single caller can do, Mike Stark posted:
Most of these guys (and their guests) work off the same sets of Heritage Foundation/AEI/Cato etc. talking points, so it's usually not that hard to find a fact check out there that leads to fun like this.
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Dec 6, 2012 18:43
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colonelslime posted:I don't think things are quite as bleak as you make them out to be. Sandra Fluke is probably a good example, where she was invited tot he Democratic convention specifically because of the attacks on her. Rush may still be the figurehead of the party, but his brand of vitriol drives of a lot of people, and demographics don't seem to be in the Republican's favour right now. In terms of social conservatism anyway, I think the pendulum is swinging the other way. I've posted some links earlier in the thread somewhere, but if you go on Daily Kos and do a search for Limbaugh, you'll see several stories about how Rush's ratings have been declining; and how advertisers are routinely fleeing from his show, in many cases after they've been notified their ads are running during his show; and how a lot of that is directly attributable to his attacks on Sandra Fluke; and how Clear Channel, who own the company that distributes his program, are more than $2 billion in debt; and how Clear Channel is also owned by good ol' Bain Capital, who love to liquidate companies after piling tons of debt onto 'em. Rush may not be getting forced off the air any time soon, but his show (and hopefully his influence) is definitely on the wane. And judging from the increased levels of crazy he's been spouting since the election, the dude knows it and is very poo poo-scared.
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Dec 6, 2012 21:12
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Typical Pubbie posted:Some one should study the psychology behind conservative memes/catch phrases/tropes. The one I see a lot lately goes something like "Are you really [denigrating right-wing sacred cow]? Really? Really?" One trope that keeps coming up is "contrary to popular belief...". It's the Rove playbook- so, Obama is actually NOT eloquent! In fact, he's a dumbo who needs a teleprompter! Kerry is NOT a war hero, but a coward! The Debt IS what really matters! And so on. This is also the basis for those PiG books. The attraction is obvious- belonging to an in-group, confirming pre-established prejudices, the ego boost of percieved intellectual superiority...
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Dec 6, 2012 22:11
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Sick_Boy posted:This is also the basis for those PiG books. I remember my Senior Year of my Comp Lit degree, I bought a copy of the PiG guide to American and British Literature. It was, um, not good.
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Dec 6, 2012 22:23
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Clear Channel, who own the company that distributes his program, are more than $2 billion in debt; and how Clear Channel is also owned by good ol' Bain Capital, who love to liquidate companies after piling tons of debt onto 'em. Actually it's closer to 16 billion in debt, with most of that due in a balloon payment in 2014 unless new financing can be found. Even if Clear Channel/Premiere Radio Networks dies a fiery death, some company will come along and pick up the network. When Bain+Friends came on board CC was worth around 8 Billion or so, now that -8. Along the way to bankruptcy or a merger you're going to see more days like today.. allaccess.com posted:ALL ACCESS has learned that CLEAR CHANNEL is going through another round of layoffs today. The reductions in force appear to be covering several of the company's clusters. Everyone from Producers on up are getting fired by the dozens today throughout the company. They haven't done a large round of layoffs like this since Inauguration Day 2009 (Hoping to fly under the radar) but rumor had it these layoffs were coming as soon as the election was over to avoid any Bain/Romney blowback.
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Dec 6, 2012 22:58
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GoatSeeGuy posted:Actually it's closer to 16 billion in debt, with most of that due in a balloon payment in 2014 unless new financing can be found. Even if Clear Channel/Premiere Radio Networks dies a fiery death, some company will come along and pick up the network. When Bain+Friends came on board CC was worth around 8 Billion or so, now that -8. Thanks for that correction, I don't mind being wrong in this particular instance.  quote:Everyone from Producers on up are getting fired by the dozens today throughout the company. They haven't done a large round of layoffs like this since Inauguration Day 2009 (Hoping to fly under the radar) but rumor had it these layoffs were coming as soon as the election was over to avoid any Bain/Romney blowback. This is the only part that brings me no joy. As much as I would love to see Rush and his ilk forced off the air--or at least forced to a much smaller profile on fewer stations--I take no glee in knowing that a lot of people lost their jobs simply because the morons in charge are running their company into the ground.
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Dec 6, 2012 23:08
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Sydney Bottocks posted:This is the only part that brings me no joy. As much as I would love to see Rush and his ilk forced off the air--or at least forced to a much smaller profile on fewer stations--I take no glee in knowing that a lot of people lost their jobs simply because the morons in charge are running their company into the ground. A little off topic, but when you owe this much money and pile on the debt that fast, it's not actively "management running things into the ground" anymore. Something is fundamentally wrong with their business model and has been for some time. That's pretty good news if you like non-terrible radio.
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Dec 6, 2012 23:10
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Adar posted:A little off topic, but when you owe this much money and pile on the debt that fast, it's not actively "management running things into the ground" anymore. Something is fundamentally wrong with their business model and has been for some time. That's pretty good news if you like non-terrible radio. Oh, no doubt. I'll take solace in the fact that this is just accelerating the collapse of at least part of the right-wing entertainment complex.  Also, I don't think anyone else posted this yet, but it's official: hell has frozen over. quote:Ann Coulter "OK fine, let's do that, but in the end, at some point, if the Bush tax cuts are repealed and everyone's taxes go up, I promise you Republicans will get blamed for it. It doesn't mean you cave on everything, but there are some things Republicans do that feed into what the media is telling America about Republicans." I linked to Breitbart here, but you can also find the article on HuffPo and the other usual sites. Normally I wouldn't give Breitbart a page hit if I could, but the comments section is just delightful.  quote:What's up with Ann Coulter lately? She's been talking about caving on everything backing Chris Christie. We lost the election we know but do you give up the war because you lost a battle?!? I say H E L L NO!! quote:Ann Coulter is just another Boehner, have watered her brain down to moderation, correct that - liberalism. quote:It's time for her to step aside and get out of the way. Let folks like Malkin, Star Parker, etc. move in. Sean has to find new guests that actually know what grassroot conservatives want. quote:SEE???? quote:Great how Coulter says "We". Romney lost the election and he was more left politically than anything. She and Bill Kristol should marry. Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Dec 6, 2012 |
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Dec 6, 2012 23:22
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For all that people talk up Clear Channel, they only own 850 stations. There are 11,020 AM + commercial full power FM stations in the country, so they have 7.7% of those.
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Dec 6, 2012 23:23
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Adar posted:A little off topic, but when you owe this much money and pile on the debt that fast, it's not actively "management running things into the ground" anymore. Something is fundamentally wrong with their business model and has been for some time. That's pretty good news if you like non-terrible radio. Depends on who's business model you're looking at. If you're Bain or Oaktree (the money behind Cumulus, the #2 radio company) things have to be looking pretty decent. Since Bain took CC private in 2008 nobody knows exactly what they've managed to bleed from the company in fees and the like but if you're just looking for deals to roll debt into radio gets results! Sydney Bottocks posted:Oh, no doubt. I'll take solace in the fact that this is just accelerating the collapse of at least part of the right-wing entertainment complex. Sadly it won't collapse, at worst the name over the door will change. Even if Rush/Glenn/Sean walk because they won't take a 20% pay cut, there's no shortage of B-Teamers that can fill the void. Minus the financial fuckery the radio business still has high enough cash flow that appealing to impotent white males will make you money. GoatSeeGuy fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Dec 6, 2012 |
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Dec 6, 2012 23:23
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Install Gentoo posted:For all that people talk up Clear Channel, they only own 850 stations. There are 11,020 AM + commercial full power FM stations in the country, so they have 7.7% of those. And all of the billboards.
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Dec 6, 2012 23:34
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Zeroisanumber posted:And all of the billboards. What? No, Lamar is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamar_Advertising_Company and has been since 1999 CBS Outdoor is also huge. Forget whether it's CBS Outdoor at #2 and Clear Channel at #3 now or the reverse, but they keep bouncing between those with Lamar solidly at #1.
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Dec 6, 2012 23:46
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colonelslime posted:I don't think things are quite as bleak as you make them out to be. Sandra Fluke is probably a good example, where she was invited tot he Democratic convention specifically because of the attacks on her. Rush may still be the figurehead of the party, but his brand of vitriol drives of a lot of people, and demographics don't seem to be in the Republican's favour right now. In terms of social conservatism anyway, I think the pendulum is swinging the other way. Even if we make it not ok to out-and-out call black people the n-word and decry women for using birth control, etc., none of it will really matter if economic progressivism isn't in a strong position. So yeah, I'd say it really is that bleak. Plus, you know, environmental collapse. Everybody is proper hosed, man. quote:Also, I don't think anyone else posted this yet, but it's official: hell has frozen over. Holy poo poo.
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Dec 7, 2012 02:04
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KomradeX posted:... Speaking of this: I've just finished up a 100-level philosophy class, and the teacher...hoo boy. He's an older straight white dude, and it soon became apparent that he was pretty right-wing, too. By itself this isn't that unusual; I live in a red county of a blue state, so I kind of shrugged it off. But today, the last day of class, he busted out this video as part of his lecture on political philosophy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjaBpVzOohs My face was stuck like this  throughout the whole thing, because it just keeps on topping itself. Apparently feminists and environmentalists and civil rights activists are all part of a vast It looks like change, only without all that uncomfortable introspection and discussion and, y'know, actual changing; so I think there's a good chance that libertarian "rationality" like the above will become the next big conservative thing.
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Dec 7, 2012 02:06
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quote:Even if we make it not ok to out-and-out call black people the n-word and decry women for using birth control, etc., none of it will really matter if economic progressivism isn't in a strong position. So yeah, I'd say it really is that bleak. Historically one of the reasons for liberating the slaves and other items was to create a new flow of ultra cheap labor (in many cases cheaper than owning the slaves) and around the civil rights act to create more competition in labor markets (more people being able to compete for the same job drives down the cost you have to pay someone). In fact you can say that one of the reasons Republicans, business, and other groups have been for social progressivism is because it helps create an economically regressive system, it's kinda one of the main reasons some groups push it. It's also a huge reason for some people to push immigration reform and more immigration, flood the labor market and get cheaper wages over all. Can you imagine millions more legal workers competing for the same jobs, it's why libertarians are always busting their nuts over a more open immigration policy.
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Dec 7, 2012 02:11
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Thanks for that correction, I don't mind being wrong in this particular instance. The bitch of it is, if Limbaugh is somehow "forced off the air", even if it's somehow the capitalist free market that he champions that does it, he'll get to be a martyr and will go down in flames as a sacrificial lamb, further cementing the idea that conservative voices just can't catch break. It will be viewed as part of the Obama plan, whatever that is. If, for some reason, Rush goes away (which I doubt will ever happen), it will only add to the conservative persecution complex. His loyal listeners will view it as an Obama Chicago style take down on free speech and an attempt to take over the airwaves and stifle free speech. I mean, everyone knows they killed Andrew Breitbart because he was just so close to the truth. Install Gentoo posted:For all that people talk up Clear Channel, they only own 850 stations. There are 11,020 AM + commercial full power FM stations in the country, so they have 7.7% of those. That's still a lot. Can you source that by the way? How many of those are subsidiaries? SatansOnion posted:Stuff my professor said ant his video he showed. Where do you live? Did you or anyone in the class say anything about what he showed you? That video is brutal. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Dec 7, 2012 |
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Dec 7, 2012 03:06
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My joy over Limbaugh's ratings plummeting is tempered by the fact that his #1 spot is being taken by Savage. I'm not sure if terrible radio shows are ever not going to be the most popular.
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Dec 7, 2012 03:12
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Lycus posted:My joy over Limbaugh's ratings plummeting is tempered by the fact that his #1 spot is being taken by Savage. I'm not sure if terrible radio shows are ever not going to be the most popular. Limbaugh is falling because he's a bad person and people are finding out. Savage can have the same thing happen to him if he joins in with the shock jock who honestly believes the racist/misogynistic poo poo they're saying.
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Dec 7, 2012 03:25
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BiggerBoat posted:... I'm in southeastern Washington State, a solidly red area that Seattle/King County regularly drags (kicking and screaming, usually) into the twenty-first century. We're a pretty well-off area with a lot of wine and agriculture, so I personally tend to see more "gently caress you, got mine" than "burn in hellfire, sinner" stuff--I'd swear the area went gaga for Romney and Ryan in a way they never did for McCain or even Dubya (but I might be misremembering that). Anyhow, I was too busy taking notes for the final (because his tests are such bullshit)/going , and most everyone else in the class is a late-teenaged kid of probably conservative parents, so if anyone else noticed how weird it is, they didn't say during class. (Also, it's the last day, so  )
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Dec 7, 2012 03:30
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Surprised nobody's commented on the Ann Coulter "We Lost" story. Come on, guys, who doesn't love seeing a demoralized Coulter arguing with Hannity! Here's the video of her on Hannity. At one point he actually tells her "You sound like Obama!"  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP83AL0MWfc
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Dec 7, 2012 03:33
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BiggerBoat posted:
http://www.clearchannel.com/Investors/PressRelease.aspx?PressReleaseID=1176&p=hidden It includes all their subsidiaries. They also used to own around 40 TV stations but they got sold off over time. 7.7% really isn't much, especially on historical terms. Aside from before NBC got split up, when they had 65% of all radio stations controlled, it was common up til the 70s for a radio network to control programming on up to 20-30% of all stations in the US at a time. There are currently: AM stations: 4,789 FM commercial stations: 6,231 FM "educational" stations: 2,672 FM translators & boosters: 3,995 (no original broadcasts, just repeating other stations to extend coverage) FM low-power stations: 675 Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Dec 7, 2012 |
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Dec 7, 2012 03:36
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Surprised nobody's commented on the Ann Coulter "We Lost" story. Come on, guys, who doesn't love seeing a demoralized Coulter arguing with Hannity! New Best Fantasy: Ann Coulter becomes a liberal commentator and turns all her wonderful hate towards the Republicans and Fox News. 
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Dec 7, 2012 03:39
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Lightning Knight posted:New Best Fantasy: Ann Coulter becomes a liberal commentator and turns all her wonderful hate towards the Republicans and Fox News. No...NO. I don't want a "liberal coulter." I don't want someone as dishonest and demagogic as that hack on the progressive side. Nor should any other progressive. The last thing progressives need is white noise from someone who puts zero effort into research and just tries to make fake controversy by saying 'edgy' things to sell their lovely books and TV appearances. Coulter can't jump ship to us because we hold our people to a higher standard than the gullible rubes she presently panders to. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Dec 7, 2012 |
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Dec 7, 2012 03:41
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Spacedad posted:No...NO. I don't want a "liberal coulter." I don't want someone as dishonest and demagogic as that hack on the progressive side. Nor should any other progressive. Logically, sure. But God would it be funny in a spiteful way.
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Dec 7, 2012 03:42
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Spacedad posted:No...NO. I don't want a "liberal coulter." I don't want someone as dishonest and demagogic as that hack on the progressive side. Nor should any other progressive. I don't see her ever becoming "Liberal Coulter", but I can certainly see her getting added to the Ailes "get my permission before booking" list that Rove and Morris are on. But for different reasons: they got added to the list because they were revealed as complete dunces on Election Night, whereas Coulter might get added if enough "real conservatives" start boycotting her as not being "conservative enough" any more and it begins to impact FN's ratings badly enough. Hell, there were a bunch of comments on the Breitbart page that said she revealed herself to be a RINO and that she had been "corrupted" by the evil media.  I could very easily see those same people writing letters and emails, demanding she no longer appear on FN television.If Ann loving Coulter isn't conservative enough for the Republican base anymore, then truly, we have entered some very interesting times. 
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Dec 7, 2012 03:49
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Sydney Bottocks posted:I don't see her ever becoming "Liberal Coulter", but I can certainly see her getting added to the Ailes "get my permission before booking" list that Rove and Morris are on. But for different reasons: they got added to the list because they were revealed as complete dunces on Election Night, whereas Coulter might get added if enough "real conservatives" start boycotting her as not being "conservative enough" any more and it begins to impact FN's ratings badly enough. Hell, there were a bunch of comments on the Breitbart page that said she revealed herself to be a RINO and that she had been "corrupted" by the evil media. They don't even know what conservatism is anymore - it's just about being insane, stubborn, and belligerent. They're acting more like a cult where the members aren't even sure of what the doctrine is, but everyone has to be in lock-step with agreement or else they get declared a traitor and booted. Even when Obama and the democrats take traditionally republican positions, suddenly those positions are the "worstest mostest socialistest thing ever." They don't stand for anything anymore other than enviously wanting to be in power instead of someone else, and so demonizing literally everything the target of their envy does. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Dec 7, 2012 |
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Dec 7, 2012 03:52
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Spacedad posted:They don't even know what conservatism is anymore - it's just about being insane, stubborn, and belligerent. They're acting more like a cult where the members aren't even sure of what the doctrine is, but everyone has to be in lock-step with agreement or else they get declared a traitor and booted. Even when Obama and the democrats take traditionally republican positions, suddenly those positions are the "worstest mostest socialistest thing ever." They don't stand for anything anymore other than enviously wanting to be in power instead of someone else, and so demonizing literally everything the target of their envy does. It does have some of the earmarks of the final days of a cult movement, doesn't it? The increasing insularity, infighting between members who want to change with the times vs. the members who just want to deny reality, the purging of anyone not considered "pure" enough...at this point, all they need is a Marshall Applewhite figure to tell them when the comet's going to be passing by.
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Dec 7, 2012 04:00
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Sydney Bottocks posted:It does have some of the earmarks of the final days of a cult movement, doesn't it? The increasing insularity, infighting between members who want to change with the times vs. the members who just want to deny reality, the purging of anyone not considered "pure" enough...at this point, all they need is a Marshall Applewhite figure to tell them when the comet's going to be passing by. I'm waiting for a tipping point when the sane ones wrest control away from the increasingly isolated crazies and the party starts the long slow process of coming back to the real world. Right now it's too chaotic to tell - but that means by default the crazies basically have 'control.'
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Dec 7, 2012 04:01
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SatansOnion posted:Speaking of this: I've just finished up a 100-level philosophy class, and the teacher...hoo boy. He's an older straight white dude, and it soon became apparent that he was pretty right-wing, too. By itself this isn't that unusual; I live in a red county of a blue state, so I kind of shrugged it off. But today, the last day of class, he busted out this video as part of his lecture on political philosophy:  drat you and your liberal elitist college!!!
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Dec 7, 2012 04:06
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Spacedad posted:I'm waiting for a tipping point when the sane ones wrest control away from the increasingly isolated crazies and the party starts the long slow process of coming back to the real world. The lunatics are certainly running the asylum at this point, and any movement of them coming back to reality will be a painfully slow one since there seems to be more and more dissonance in the group. At this point, I don't think they know what they stand for, they only seem to agree on certain things they stand against: Obama, taxes, Muslims, atheists, and the usual right wing targets. Getting them to agree on what their objectives are? Good luck.
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Dec 7, 2012 04:07
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Maybe I'm missing something, but are they agreeing, seriously agreeing, that taxes should be raised only on rich liberals? And like, how would that work?
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Dec 7, 2012 04:13
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Count Freebasie posted:The lunatics are certainly running the asylum at this point, and any movement of them coming back to reality will be a painfully slow one since there seems to be more and more dissonance in the group. That video I posted pretty much says it all. You have two of the conservative movement's most visible (and risible) media figures, arguing with each other about taxes being raised on rich people, and one of them tells the other "You sound like Obama!" simply because she dares to suggest that the Republicans accept this particular battle as lost and regroup and refocus; because otherwise they'll just confirm in peoples' minds that they are the party of the rich, and they'll keep losing voters because of it. It truly boggles the (rational) mind that they're even arguing about this. E: beatlegs posted:Maybe I'm missing something, but are they agreeing, seriously agreeing, that taxes should be raised only on rich liberals? And like, how would that work? I don't think it's that so much as they are echoing Bill Kristol's statement from a short while back that the Republicans shouldn't "fall on [their] sword" over raising taxes on rich people, because (in his estimation) half of the rich people in America are liberal Hollywood types anyways. Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Dec 7, 2012 |
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Dec 7, 2012 04:13
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