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Smirking_Serpent posted:I've never played it on the PC, but the wiki page looks like it has some console commands for solving your problem: Hey thanks, never realised the Fallout wikia was this detailed. I'll try this tonight.
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Dec 7, 2012 03:16
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WAR FOOT posted:My latest playthrough is a good-aligned INT/Speech/Medicine, who I'm roleplaying as having bought into the inevitability of the Legion's triumph, based on quests like Cold, Cold Heart and the fact that men with swords and football armour can best the military. I've actually been kind of weirdly obsessed with a 'moral' Legion victory in the past, and while I never played it through to the very end, here's how you do it. Spoilers obviously: -Save Caesar's life. No brainer, but this spares the Boomers, the Followers, and stops the Legion from pointlessly losing countless men trying to track down the Remnants. -Save Goodsprings. The Legion leaves them alone. -The Powder Gangers are hosed no matter what you do. I'd let the Legion deal with them, they die either way and it sends a message. -In Primm, get the NCR to overtake the town. When they withdraw, the Legion will peacefully take control instead of killing them all. -If you kill everybody at Forlorn Hope, Papa Khan will make you his predecessor and let you choose their future. Personally I'd have them gently caress off and join the Followers to establish a great empire in the northwest, but assimilating them into the Legion isn't entirely terrible. -Arcade...eh, I guess you could convince him to fight in his father's armor. It's the only Legion victory that ends with him alive, albeit imprisoned, though you do have to fight the Remnants yourself this way I believe. -Give Rex Lupa's brain. Once a Legion wardog, always a Legion wardog  -Have Boone make amends with Bitter Springs. This doesn't necessarily help the Legion, but it does cause him to become an almost mythological angel of death among them which is the most metal thing. -Don't do any of the Kings' quests. This is the only ending where a few of them avoid dying, perhaps even the King himself  (it never specifies)-Complete the ghoul rocket quest the best way, and they're able to help evacuate before the Legion overruns the town. -BoS either dies midgame or during the ending. Do what must be done. -There is no way to save Hanlon, but you can allow him an honorable beheading by talking him down at least? All the other quests pretty much ignore Legion victory so they can be done however. Have fun!
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Dec 7, 2012 04:46
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Er, the Khans being assimilated is pretty drat awful. And the only reason the King "survives" is because the game assume you never met him so he functionally doesn't exist. Also, I thought the main reason Ceasar's Legion was winning in the Mojave was because it was essentially the boonies of the NCR, where they had no easy way of resupplying, providing artillery, or some of their more advanced technology. In other words while men in silly armor wielding machetes can win while against an starved technologically superior force, I'm not sure how well they'd do against more rockets, power armor, armored vehicles and proper medical car/hospitals.
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Dec 7, 2012 04:59
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Uggggh gently caress you, Boone. He's in his sniper's crouch staring out at...the door to the Dino Bite Gift Shop. And won't see I'm bringing out his target.
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Dec 7, 2012 05:03
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FairGame posted:Uggggh gently caress you, Boone. He's in his sniper's crouch staring out at...the door to the Dino Bite Gift Shop. Try teleporting him to yourself with console commands; this is often enough to jigger the AI into resetting and doing things right.
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Dec 7, 2012 05:29
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Reminded myself tonight why I rarely complete the White Gloves quest, Heck's son glitches out pretty hard every time I do it. This time coming back from the private members area he sat there crouched and made me push him all the way to his dad, before he unfucked himself and stood up to speak his lines.
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Dec 7, 2012 05:32
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Wolfsheim posted:-If you kill everybody at Forlorn Hope, Papa Khan will make you his predecessor and let you choose their future. Personally I'd have them gently caress off and join the Followers to establish a great empire in the northwest, but assimilating them into the Legion isn't entirely terrible. The men becoming brutish, indoctrinated, disposable troops for the Legion, the women being sold off as sex slaves and their entire culture being destroyed and erased. Not entirely terrible.
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Dec 7, 2012 05:41
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Wolfsheim posted:-The Powder Gangers are hosed no matter what you do. I'd let the Legion deal with them, they die either way and it sends a message. The best you can hope for is to have the Vault 19 gangers join up with the Khans, and then have the Khans leave the region for the northwest.
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Dec 7, 2012 05:49
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Dan Didio posted:The men becoming brutish, indoctrinated, disposable troops for the Legion, the women being sold off as sex slaves and their entire culture being destroyed and erased. Look, we're dealing with the faction that has a rape-based economy, this is more about disaster control then actual good outcomes. The ending does mention some Khans being pretty satisfied with their revenge, though There's also the fact that they go from being a dying tribe living in a squalid canyon and making meth all day to citizens in a standing army that is actually capable of defending itself and its borders. The culture is horrific in many ways, but that's just the whole Legion fully-evil/gray-area argument again. Smirking_Serpent posted:The best you can hope for is to have the Vault 19 gangers join up with the Khans, and then have the Khans leave the region for the northwest. True, but not for the chumps still hanging out at NCRCF. Though if you're going to do this you should have the Khans join with the Legion, because it makes for a rough ride for any Vault 19 gangers who get caught up. They go from prison break to living in a vault to joining the Great Khans to joining the Legion in the span of like a month. They might even end up crucifying their former cell mates over at the prison. Wolfsheim fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Dec 7, 2012 |
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Dec 7, 2012 07:21
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Good plan for an rear end in a top hat playthrough, at least.WAR FOOT posted:My latest playthrough is a good-aligned INT/Speech/Medicine, who I'm roleplaying as having bought into the inevitability of the Legion's triumph, based on quests like Cold, Cold Heart and the fact that men with swords and football armour can best the military. I actually did what you're proposing to do. I still felt like I deserved a red caption on my forums avatar afterward, and if I hadn't used a male Courier to do it I'd probably have bought it myself. Along with what others have said : Camp Golf: Keeping Hanlon's secret, rather than convincing him to stop or driving him to suicide, gives him and the Rangers an honorable and pretty metal death. The Wiki suggests that there were supposed to be separate endings if you drove him to suicide, but at least in the case of a Legion victory the ending for him being dead at all takes precedence, and pretty much sucks. Shame too; the appropriate version for a Legion ending was downright poetic. Likewise with the Misfits; you can't give them a safe/viable ending, but if you do right by them you can at least give them a noble one. Nellis: You should still help out the Boomers. It's a lot better than leaving them alone or killing them. McCarran: Handle the Fiends any way you like. Arcade and the Remnants: I don't remember Arcade getting an ending slide when I had the Remnants side with the Legion in his companion quest. That may actually be the best option. Obviously you need to complete For Auld Lang Syne, or kill the Remnants, to get a Remnants slide. Veronica and the Brotherhood: I would lead Veronica to leave the Brotherhood. At least you'll have an excuse to do Caesar's bidding. (Fuckers.) Her ending is not otherwise affected by a Legion ending. Cass and the Caravans: Cass has separate slides for her companion quest and your choice of ending (if she survives), and the two don't affect each other. Miscellaneous: Black Mountain and Jacobstown are entirely unaffected by your choice of ending. Likewise with Raul, Lily and ED-E, and all the DLC, so feel free to be a paragon of human virtue in all of those. dont be mean to me fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Dec 7, 2012 |
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Dec 7, 2012 12:09
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Were Legion quests cut short or something? I just went to Nelson and rather than rescunig the hostages I talked to the explorer who put me in front of Dead Sea. He didn't even give me a quest. He was just like "if you think I'm doing a bad job why don't you go hop over to Forlorn Hope and kill some dudes." Which I guess is a pretty easy quest with a bunch of throwing spears and a stealth boy, but he didn't even give a gently caress. Oh well, now I have his unique machete and I'm getting all the crits.
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Dec 7, 2012 16:58
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FairGame posted:Were Legion quests cut short Yes.
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Dec 7, 2012 17:26
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DamnGlitch posted:Yes. Which is a shame when you think of what could have been. As is, the Legion are the unambiguous bad guys who murder rape kill the poo poo out of everything. There's a few dialogue fragments that hint that their society is 1000x more betterer than the NCR if only you could go back east and see it. This basically leaves the NCR as the default good guy team, despite the fact that most of their quests show you just how mismanaged and short sighted the NCR is. It was incredibly underwhelming that the whole game felt like I was supposed to help this anemic bunch of bureaucratic half-wits because the other option was working with a professional rape team. Of course the fact that Yes Man exists basically solves all of the story related problems. I AM THE GOD OF NEW VEGAS MORTALS.
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Dec 7, 2012 19:11
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WAR FOOT posted:My latest playthrough is a good-aligned INT/Speech/Medicine, who I'm roleplaying as having bought into the inevitability of the Legion's triumph, based on quests like Cold, Cold Heart and the fact that men with swords and football armour can best the military.
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Dec 7, 2012 21:18
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homeless poster posted:Which is a shame when you think of what could have been. As is, the Legion are the unambiguous bad guys who murder rape kill the poo poo out of everything. There's a few dialogue fragments that hint that their society is 1000x more betterer than the NCR if only you could go back east and see it. This basically leaves the NCR as the default good guy team, despite the fact that most of their quests show you just how mismanaged and short sighted the NCR is. It was incredibly underwhelming that the whole game felt like I was supposed to help this anemic bunch of bureaucratic half-wits because the other option was working with a professional rape team. The whole point of the NCR vs. Legion debate in-game is that Caesar's Legion gets poo poo done, but via process of completely ignoring the individual's desires or rights. This is a society that has no concept of human rights; people have virtues and they either live up to them or they get put to death for getting in the way of society as a whole. Meanwhile, the NCR tries to be like a pre-war Democratic society, which means respecting people's rights, giving them opportunities to improve themselves, all within the confines of the law. Democracy has always moved more slowly than a Dictatorship because there needs to be room for error and refinement in a Democracy, so you don't trample over people. In the Legion, everything is all up to the will of Caesar, and it will get done if he wants it. Criticizing and debating Caesar's Legion is ultimately pretty pointless since the entire society is whatever their leader wants it to be. The only way you can change a society like that is by ripping it apart through violence, or letting it tear itself apart through its major inconsistencies (societies based on rule of violence typically succumb to violence). All that said, Caesar's Legion society is much less corrupt and under threat of raiders, but that's really because there's no opportunity to be corrupt, and because the whole thing is super-violent anyway. NCR may have raiders, corrupt politicians, and filthy rich murderous cattle baron, but they're appealing to something greater than just base survival. If the Legion wasn't constantly going around conquering tribes and cities, it would probably cease to exist as that violence has to turn somewhere. drat do I love New Vegas.
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Dec 7, 2012 22:30
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:The whole point of the NCR vs. Legion debate in-game is that Caesar's Legion gets poo poo done, but via process of completely ignoring the individual's desires or rights. This is a society that has no concept of human rights; people have virtues and they either live up to them or they get put to death for getting in the way of society as a whole. Meanwhile, the NCR tries to be like a pre-war Democratic society, which means respecting people's rights, giving them opportunities to improve themselves, all within the confines of the law. Democracy has always moved more slowly than a Dictatorship because there needs to be room for error and refinement in a Democracy, so you don't trample over people. In the Legion, everything is all up to the will of Caesar, and it will get done if he wants it. As for the last paragraph I always got the impression that the Legion didn't have raiders like the NCR did becuase they're part of hte standing army and should a few soldiers decide to pick on a merchant, they can just kill everyone to make them stay quiet
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Dec 7, 2012 23:27
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Arbitrary Coin posted:As for the last paragraph I always got the impression that the Legion didn't have raiders like the NCR did becuase they're part of hte standing army and should a few soldiers decide to pick on a merchant, they can just kill everyone to make them stay quiet It's possible but it's not really cited in-game as happening, though. Nobody's skimming off the top or stealing poo poo because they're either brainwashed to buy into the glory of the Legion, or they fear the reprisals. I think the only times we even hear about a Legionnaire breaking the rules is the dude who was having gay sex with that slave on the downlow, and the Centurion who got captured, but he was just doing it to further the glory of the Legion anyway (and Caesar is happy if you help him escape iirc). Granted, that doesn't mean they won't gut you with a machete for trying to sell them whiskey, but that's the merchants breaking the Legion's rules, not the other way around.
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Dec 8, 2012 00:31
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achillesforever6 posted:I still think it would be 100x better if at the end you lead the Legion to victory, Caesar would make you his heir and based on your karma would shape how the Legion would act in the future. That would be pretty weird if you played as a lady. edit: Hey I'm just finishing up Dead Money but I keep getting this persistent bug where the game immediately crashes to desktop when I hit the elevator to the suites after I punch Elijah in the face. any advice on getting rid of it? I'm pretty sure it isn't because of the mods I have. Lord Lambeth fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Dec 8, 2012 |
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Dec 8, 2012 00:53
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I think Ropekid said once that Legionnaire's don't dare skim off the top or bully people against orders. But then he also said that the Legion generally doesn't butcher towns whole and they are generally left alone if they aren't horrible shitholes and no one takes that seriously either.
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Dec 8, 2012 02:14
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I guess in a way I was actually too cynical for the Caesar Legion's "no corruption, no soldiers bullying their own civilians, perfectly peaceful lands," shtick. When I heard it in game I mentally just went "Sure it is, uhuh, yeah right. All of the disparate people recently forcefully assimilated totally go along with everything" When you don't buy into the Legion's arguably only good point, it becomes even less palatable
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Dec 8, 2012 02:45
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Utgardaloki posted:I think Ropekid said once that Legionnaire's don't dare skim off the top or bully people against orders. But then he also said that the Legion generally doesn't butcher towns whole and they are generally left alone if they aren't horrible shitholes and no one takes that seriously either. It would make sense though, since to even join up and not be slaughtered you have to both survive and follow truly immoral orders, so I don't see a lot of non-true believers mucking things up a la the NCR's whole structure. Why would you even skim off the top? Do Legionnaires get paid? I assumed the gold was like a collective treasury thing.
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Dec 8, 2012 03:14
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I don't see enough of a control against the Legion soldiers abusing the power they have though. Everything is enforced from the top, so unless you have Caesar or Vulpes or Lucius' ear that the Legionaires are doing something they shouldn't be, how is anyone going to do anything about it? Especially since the whole structure of Legion warfare is based on raw force and brutality.
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Dec 8, 2012 03:40
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StandardVC10 posted:I don't see enough of a control against the Legion soldiers abusing the power they have though. Everything is enforced from the top, so unless you have Caesar or Vulpes or Lucius' ear that the Legionaires are doing something they shouldn't be, how is anyone going to do anything about it? Especially since the whole structure of Legion warfare is based on raw force and brutality. Well, after brainwashing everyone fighting for me into loving me and my rules, I'd reward people who reported things like that directly to me. I doubt it'd take that much effort though, like Wolfsheim said, why would they even bother pushing people around? What could they possibly gain that would improve their horrible lives that they are at the same time extremely proud of? Arbitrary Coin posted:I guess in a way I was actually too cynical for the Caesar Legion's "no corruption, no soldiers bullying their own civilians, perfectly peaceful lands," shtick. When I heard it in game I mentally just went "Sure it is, uhuh, yeah right. All of the disparate people recently forcefully assimilated totally go along with everything" Well, those same assimilated people lived under constant fear of brutality from people much less sensible than Caesar, so I'm not sure why they would rebel against the most stable force they've ever known.
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Dec 8, 2012 04:07
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:The whole point of the NCR vs. Legion debate in-game is that Caesar's Legion gets poo poo done, but via process of completely ignoring the individual's desires or rights. This is a society that has no concept of human rights; people have virtues and they either live up to them or they get put to death for getting in the way of society as a whole. Meanwhile, the NCR tries to be like a pre-war Democratic society, which means respecting people's rights, giving them opportunities to improve themselves, all within the confines of the law. Democracy has always moved more slowly than a Dictatorship because there needs to be room for error and refinement in a Democracy, so you don't trample over people. In the Legion, everything is all up to the will of Caesar, and it will get done if he wants it. I think the thing that enables these kinds of discussion is the fact that we (the player) are only ever given glimpses of Legion society outside of their military operations that are being staged throughout the Mojave, and we're put in a position where we either have to rely on narratives that don't sound genuine, or we have to infer a lot of things about the Legion based on very limited information. Like, what is the actual culture of the Legion? Do they actually worship Cesar-as-God with like actual temples and altars and rituals and myths? What kind of art/music do they create when they aren't waging wars of bloody conquest? Any analogous real world culture that was lead by a tyrannical war monger still had a history and songs and art and etc. For every in-game comment about how orderly and wonderful the Legion lands are back east, I have to assume there's some kind of functional culture behind it all, or else you're not going to be able to build the kind of cohesive structures needed to support a military that can rampantly slaughter everything else in your path (especially if you shun medicine and modern weapons and etc). We can assume that the NCR culture is based on appropriating various common belief structures from the fake past of the alternate USA, but we never really get to see a glimpse of what the Legion might be doing in all of those villages when it isn't being the Legion.
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Dec 8, 2012 06:04
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I totally agree with you. I would love to see what Legion life is like back home.
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Dec 8, 2012 07:06
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My biggest disappointment with New Vegas is there's not enough Legion content. Purely considering gameplay stuff and not narrative concerns, I wish The Fort was accessible through ways other than fast travel or the ferry, and I wish there were other things on that side of the river to see and do. Knowing Legion content was cut, was there any cut content along the lines of "stuff to explore on the east side of the river"?
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Dec 8, 2012 07:09
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homeless poster posted:Which is a shame when you think of what could have been. As is, the Legion are the unambiguous bad guys who murder rape kill the poo poo out of everything. There's a few dialogue fragments that hint that their society is 1000x more betterer than the NCR if only you could go back east and see it. This basically leaves the NCR as the default good guy team, despite the fact that most of their quests show you just how mismanaged and short sighted the NCR is. It was incredibly underwhelming that the whole game felt like I was supposed to help this anemic bunch of bureaucratic half-wits because the other option was working with a professional rape team. I like to see it as doing Hopeville 2.0. Thank goodness Mr.House wasn't housing nukes inside. Also, too bad Ulysses couldn't have joined you, hell he was a lot more forgiving than Arcade and Boone if you wish to help the awful legion take over the dam. He won't stand against you unless you decide to betray your original cause you chose uphold at Lonesome Road. It would have been epic to see Ulysses appear again one last time at Hoover Dam if you betrayed your previous cause. Making a speech about bringing the old world back/Bringing democracy/Restoring Order/Freeing New Vegas before fighting you. Actually we needed an evil companion like Jericho and Clover was. Can't be recruited without evil karma as a good karma courier doesn't even have that option (They will say how broken the enslaved companion is, stating how freeing them from servitude is useless since they are broken in to serve a master. Sort of like Marida). Also elite Riot Gear resembles the Cerberus Police armor. Hell for some Tribals, the legion is simply "what their tribe used to do before they came" The more brutal tribals will probably enjoy the improvement in life and plunder in the Legion since they probably also do what the Legion does but much worse. gyrobot fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Dec 8, 2012 |
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Dec 8, 2012 07:33
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Falls Down Stairs posted:My biggest disappointment with New Vegas is there's not enough Legion content. Nah.
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Dec 8, 2012 07:47
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Well that's just stuff they had chance to model/left in the game files, there probably was more Legion content cut completely than what was left in.
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Dec 8, 2012 12:42
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I'm reasonably sure that Ropekid and some others said that the plans to show stuff east of the river and further into Legion territory in the game were cut pretty early in development.
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Dec 8, 2012 16:05
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Was there an explanation on why they dropped the various "junk-weapons" (rail-spike gun, etc) from FO3? I wasn't necessarily in love with the weapons, but I did enjoy hunting down the materials just to see what would come of them.
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Dec 8, 2012 18:17
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Was there an explanation for why House's face was changed? Was it because he was creepy looking?
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Dec 8, 2012 19:15
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Upmarket Mango posted:Was there an explanation for why House's face was changed? Was it because he was creepy looking? Too evil looking. DeclaredYuppie posted:Was there an explanation on why they dropped the various "junk-weapons" (rail-spike gun, etc) from FO3? I wasn't necessarily in love with the weapons, but I did enjoy hunting down the materials just to see what would come of them. The Rock-It Launcher straight up wouldn't work in New Vegas. I dunno about the rest, maybe Bethesda mandated new weapons or something
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Dec 8, 2012 19:45
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They kinda make less sense with the more lived in, post-post-apocalypse feel of New Vegas than they do in FO3's everything still sucks, seriously I have to go through the sewers? wasteland.
HitTheTargets fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Dec 8, 2012 |
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Dec 8, 2012 20:29
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Oh my gosh they cut radioactive tumbleweed enemies? Rope kid what is wrong with you??
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Dec 8, 2012 22:30
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Dan Didio posted:I'm reasonably sure that Ropekid and some others said that the plans to show stuff east of the river and further into Legion territory in the game were cut pretty early in development. For anyone who wants to long for what might have been and hasn't seen this before, the Vault wiki about Van Buren is pretty comprehensive
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Dec 8, 2012 23:06
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Before I loaded the page I read "tumbleweed enemies" and was thinking of the Spriggans from Skyrim. Something like that would have been a fun OWB enemy. "Wegenetically modified the MIGHTY TREE to be controlled by a HUMBLE HUMAN BRAIN!" Their weapons would be flamethrowers and they would be found in the metalworks, where they would occasionally burst into flame. Ranger Chauncey is something I would have loved to see, as well as the super mutant prostitute. Although super mutants have no sexual organs, so how would that no stop don't ask don't even think about it
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Dec 8, 2012 23:08
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Coolodile posted:Just make sure that you go with Yes Man on the final mission and blow up the dam, making the entire war pointless. You know, for a laugh. Wait, is this actually an option for the Yes Man ending? (I'm still working on my first Yes Man playthrough)
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Dec 9, 2012 03:31
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It is indeed. Also: my wife is playing the game NCR all the way, and when I told her the securitrons don't matter in the NCR path she figured she'd just blow up the ones at the Fort for Caesar. She did, and then went back and told Yes Man. His reaction was the funniest thing I've ever heard in this game, or maybe any game
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Dec 9, 2012 03:37
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I looked it up and found it in this video, it's pretty amazing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k9OYIfG8C4&t=350s
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Dec 9, 2012 03:52
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