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 Grant Anonama = Not An Anagram. E: Wow, I should finish reading the page before commenting. tinaun fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Dec 14, 2012 |
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Dec 14, 2012 12:54
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| # ? May 21, 2024 11:25 |
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I don't know why but the funniest thing to me is the idea of "the one token heroterosexual** romance in the book." I'm sure this is all heck of foreshadowing but I can't stop loving it just for being a big gently caress You to Potter and god drat Quidditch.
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Dec 14, 2012 13:02
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tinaun posted:Grant Anonama = Not An Anagram. This is how you know he's evil.
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Dec 14, 2012 13:07
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tinaun posted:Grant Anonama = Not An Anagram. Yeah, the whole anagram thing now has me wondering if one character or another has a super secret anagram name now. Lord English = Her Ill Dongs. Figured that one out quick.
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Dec 14, 2012 13:10
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I love that the stand-in for Harry Potter's broomsticks is just big flying wooden horses that you ride on. It's funny on its own (despite really being less weird than brooms conceptually) and also pokes a bit of fun at Hussie's own habit of Weird Horse poo poo horseshit while contributing to it. There probably aren't any tiny Greek soldiers in these, but you never know. Maybe it's more about the flying ebony horse from 1001 Nights - whose story, if I recall, involved flying away to the sun like a piece of gargbage. (edit: well, no, not quite. It involves almost doing so and then figuring out the drat thing's controls. Go read it, it's a classic and that translation is hilarious.) Hamiltonian Bicycle fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Dec 14, 2012 |
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Dec 14, 2012 13:15
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A lot of Homestuck seems to involve scrutinizing intentionally terrible comics/fanfics/conversations for valuable plot clues, like an amazing game of Where's Waldo. (Where's Wally for the non-US folks.) Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:I love that the stand-in for Harry Potter's broomsticks is just big flying wooden horses that you ride on. It's funny on its own (despite really being less weird than brooms conceptually) and also pokes a bit of fun at Hussie's own habit of Weird Horse poo poo horseshit while contributing to it. It's also something a Freudian analyzer like Rose would have had a field day with.
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Dec 14, 2012 14:25
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tinaun posted:Hussie's fake Can't help but hear this throughout this update.
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Dec 14, 2012 14:37
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are the best. 
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Well now I want to read Wizardy Herbert in its unfinished entirety 
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Dec 14, 2012 14:41
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Midnight Raider posted:A lot of Homestuck seems to involve scrutinizing intentionally terrible comics/fanfics/conversations for valuable plot clues, like an amazing game of Where's Waldo. (Where's Wally for the non-US folks.) There's no doubt in my mind that this wizard meta-fan-fiction is rich with symbolic meaning for Homestuck, along with absolutely everything else that ever appears in Homestuck and some things that appear outside of it. What I can't entirely tell is what's going on in the story regarding it being a story. So Herbert and Beatrix have been 'outside' of their fictional world for a few years but are now back inside of it? Were they made in the story, escaped, and were returned? Were they actually born outside of the story and some evil rival or enemy put them into it? It's somewhat confusing.
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Dec 14, 2012 16:31
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The way I see it it's analogous to the Cali's spending much of their time reading Homestuck and eventually becoming part of it. Herb and Bea were outside observers and even though they are now part of the story they remain in the mindset that it's kind of fake. For Caliborn it's still just a game to win. HE also shoots people despite it possibly loving with the time line. Bea/Ope want to try and maintain the narrative. Or it could be something else entirely.
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Dec 14, 2012 16:38
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Is anyone else detecting some serious self-loathing in this wizardfic? I think Roxy's got some serious self-esteem issues, given how much she's berating herself and her writing. The point where the drunken typos start up was actually pretty heartbreaking to me .
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Dec 14, 2012 16:53
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Rhinoceraptor posted:Is anyone else detecting some serious self-loathing in this wizardfic? I think Roxy's got some serious self-esteem issues, given how much she's berating herself and her writing. The point where the drunken typos start up was actually pretty heartbreaking to me Definitely. We already knew Roxy wasn't entirely happy with her writing: quote:God drat do you love WIZARDS. But yeah, watching her tear down her own work and apparently get gradually drunker in the process is something else. (Especially since she was probably 13 at this point.)
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Dec 14, 2012 17:04
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Edit: tumblr points out that the not-snitch Herbert is holding is turned so one of the springs makes a cherub spiral.Dolash posted:
There is a line drawn between those created in the story and that stayed (background characters), those created, left, and have somehow returned (Grant), and those that know of the story but we're not a part of it (Herbert, Bea, Russet). Grant seems to have either become less "real" by returning to his book or is stuck more stiffly in the role than the others. Herb recalls birds of the story, so perhaps he read it at summer point? It almost seems like he's from another fictional work, but a better one? I, also, am confused. Bobulus fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Dec 14, 2012 |
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Dec 14, 2012 17:06
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I'm sure the writer of My Immortal drank herself silly too.
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Dec 14, 2012 17:14
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How many layers of meta are we at now? I have lost track. 
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Dec 14, 2012 17:48
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Thundarr posted:How many layers of meta are we at now? I have lost track. There's at least four or five here. It kind of hurts my head.
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Dec 14, 2012 17:51
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Bobulus posted:Edit: tumblr points out that the not-snitch Herbert is holding is turned so one of the springs makes a cherub spiral. Clearly it's the Cherub edition of the Matriorb.
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Dec 14, 2012 18:00
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Thundarr posted:How many layers of meta are we at now? I have lost track. That's a really good question! The answer is four. By which I mean, the number of layers in this story. The first layer is the layer the original author (Young Roxy) intended the story to be read at: a fun time at magic wizard summer camp. The second layer is how Old Roxy re-interpreted the story: a hilarious ironic trip to lovely wizard camp. The fourth layer, which is what most people here have been focusing on, is the way the story reflects & perhaps foreshadows the events of the broader story: Herbert as Caliborn, Bea as Calliope, themes of predestination versus free will. But there is a third layer! The layer of lovely self-insert fanfic characters. The most important layer of all*! I argue that Roxy took up the finest tradition of lovely fanfic, and made all of the named characters thinly-veiled recreations of her own friends. Russet is the most obvious: cheerful, "brave", seemingly oblivious [to the fact that he's in a fictional story], getting beat up all the time... that's Jake. Of course, there's romantic tension practically seething between him and the other male character, Slinus Marlevort, who has an alternate identity (Grant) - almost as though he's split into multiple people? - and has it specifically noted that he wears glasses. (He's glasses.) ((Dirk.)) And our viewpoint character Beatrice, of course, is none other than the author. This leaves us with the seemingly odd situation that, if we want to be complete, we have to match Herbert up with Jane. But on reflection, it's not as strange as all that. Herbert is grumpy and has no interest in the poo poo the plot is handing him - much like the current situation. He's in a rivalry with Russet (seemingly created by Russet placing Grant's interests ahead of his and Beatrice's) - much like the current situation. It's not as though Homestuck hasn't been playing around with putting Jane in a "male role" - the fake moustache, the pants (a woman wearing pants? #whoa), a few other things. Most interestingly, if you look at where the fanfic ends, it's with the "token heterosexual romance", a very forced pairing between Beatrice and Herbert. (Roxy has of course paired herself with Jane before). When push comes to shove, however, Roxy locks up - she's so flustered at the thought of doing anything about her feelings for Jane that she degenerates into incoherency and can't continue writing. Why, she probably couldn't kiss the girl to save her life. This is pretty shaky analysis, I'll be the first to admit, but it's a lot of fun doing literary analysis of ironic lovely wizardfic. Hopefully someone got something interesting out of all that! *not really.
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Dec 14, 2012 18:16
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I think we are over analyzing this whole thing. But maybe that's just because I'm horrible at analyzing things and just find this a silly book.
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Dec 14, 2012 18:25
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tumblr update: japanese homestuck fan still the greatest
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Dec 14, 2012 18:32
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Grapplejack posted:tumblr update: japanese homestuck fan still the greatest The caption with this update reads: mihirahira02@tumblr posted:When I look at Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff this way
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Dec 14, 2012 18:35
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Bobulus posted:There is a line drawn between those created in the story and that stayed (background characters), those created, left, and have somehow returned (Grant), and those that know of the story but we're not a part of it (Herbert, Bea, Russet). Grant seems to have either become less "real" by returning to his book or is stuck more stiffly in the role than the others. Herb recalls birds of the story, so perhaps he read it at summer point? It almost seems like he's from another fictional work, but a better one? CONFUSION REIGNS but this is still pretty entertaining. There are some  going on, so feel free to skip or ignore as I do some narratology-inflected close reading to show what I think are the neatest things about these updates.I wanted to corroborate the distinctions between types of characters. It's unclear if what's happening in WH ever actually "happened" to Herbert, Russet, and Bea, and there are repeated references to them having "read" the "book" or "the book wants us to [do x]". That is, if they were in the story, they outgrew it in some way and have now returned. What I'd posit against that is the surprise with which they react to certain events, as if they hadn't ever happened, eg, the token heterosexual romance. Anyway, it seems crucial that their knowledge of the story is limited: quote:beatrix squinted at the serpenook boy. she didnt know why she couldnt see it coming. "grant??" Also consider: quote:"a favor?" russet said. but he was barely listening. the resemblance to his real life friend was uncanny. he was sure it was him. but here in this dumb prison he was no more than a soulless mannequin dreamt up to recite insipid horseshit. So despite their general familiarity with how things are "supposed" to play out, they didn't know that their friend Grant was Slinus Marlevort -- or some narrative contrivance made them not know the second they stepped into the story. If all of this actually "happened" to these characters, it would be weird for Russet to be so surprised at this encounter, however, since the events would have already happened to him. Consider, also that only Russet and Slinus/Grant appear in the Comics Sans passages, so we get interesting things like: quote:[Comic Sans]russet said defiently...[/Comic Sans] Here the revisionary quality of the apparently later text is displayed; at the same time it's not revisionary to the point of changing the story, but rather an ironic recontextualizing the dialogue. Russet seems to be falling into the path of action laid down for him by the earlier text, whereas Herbert and Beatrix appear only in the later, ironic text. Furthermore, in contrast to the others, it seems that Grant only "says" and "does" things in the Comic Sans text. In fact, he might not have an origin point outside of the earlier story at all: quote:"how could you keep something like that from everyone? that you knew all along?" For one thing, this excerpt suggests that Russet always knew that Grant was always really named Slinus, but still didn't expect him to be in the wizardfic. This all builds toward the possibility that Beatrix, Herbert, and Russet aren't actually native to the wizardfic but Grant/Slinus is; what is clear is that he somehow escaped and trapped the others inside, all without them knowing he was originally a part of it. What I'd pitch, then, is that Wizardy Herbert is the tale of three-maybe-four friends who stumble across a book of totally stupid and terrible wizardfic, written in Comic Sans. Three of these maybe-four friends, through means unknown, become trapped inside, and are forced to live through the narrative constraints but still have room for ironic play (the non-Comic Sans text). However, in the process they discover that their fourth maybe-friend was in fact a character in the lovely wizardfic all along, who escaped through means even more unknown, took a false name, and then led his 'friends' to discover and trap themselves within the fic, probably as part of a convoluted plot to maintain his own freedom. What makes me sad now, if I'm more or less correct, is that I'm never going to be able to read this amazing, spectacular book.
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Dec 14, 2012 18:41
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Well, part of it is kind of like Chamber of Secrets, or it would be if "Grant" was originally the real Slinus' self-insert character in the lovely wizardfic he was writing...  I agree with your reading of the post-revision book, for what it's worth. I wonder how much of that is what the book Hussie was writing was and how much is what's needed for Homestuck now.
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Dec 14, 2012 18:50
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RAAARARRAAUUUAAAAUUAGHGHGGHGGGGHHGH is the new BLUH.
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Dec 14, 2012 19:25
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Slinus Marlevort => Ovular Minstrels => Allusive Mr Snort This is certainly relevant.
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Dec 14, 2012 19:30
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I actually kind of hope now that Hussie's next project is turning Wizardy Herbert into an actual book. edit: Actually I realized that we've seen this 'second layer of narrative inserted on top of and mocking the original layer' deal before- with Dirk's present of that horse book to Jane, which in itself referenced something Hussie did a ways back where he defaced some lovely faux 'manual' about wizards or something. Mazerunner fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Dec 14, 2012 |
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Dec 14, 2012 20:53
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Cat Mattress posted:Slinus Marlevort => Ovular Minstrels => Allusive Mr Snort Ms Troll Universa, eh? I'm onto you, Snowman.
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Dec 14, 2012 21:08
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Mazerunner posted:I actually kind of hope now that Hussie's next project is turning Wizardy Herbert into an actual book. It also goes along with the links to SBaHJ within the narrative. Not the in-jokes, the caption images linking to the actual comics. lovely Comic Sans images that either mock or alter the context of the situation.
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Dec 14, 2012 21:14
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I think Hussie is also referencing the 'characters from this story read a terrible fanfic about them' genre. Which started up after fanfiction.net banned MST3K readings.
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Dec 14, 2012 21:16
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PleasingFungus posted:That's a really good question! The answer is four. I love this and I love you. Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:I wonder how much of that is what the book Hussie was writing was and how much is what's needed for Homestuck now. It's not the Wizardy Herbert we deserve, but it's the one we need right now.
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Dec 14, 2012 21:25
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They can't contradict the events of the story, no matter how much they try, though there's some leeway in how those events are interpreted, and the original text need not be narrated. Herbert and Beatrice tried to avoid colliding "romantically" in midair but they just crept towards each other incredibly slowly. Grant - or Slinus? - is "from this dogshit wizardfic" and escaped, implying that Russet, Herbert, and Beatrice are somehow not. Slinus' spell trapped Russet inside. So I guess the story Roxy wrote is that a magic book containing text derived from an earlier one of Roxy's stories was in fact enchanted by a wizard as part of some evil/romantic scheme. The book was about the same characters, and in fact Slinus originated from within the book, while Russet was trapped inside of it, and Herbert and Beatrice entered it later. I consider it very likely that, had she continued writing, Roxy would have written Beatrice, Russet, and Herbert discovering that they had also all originated from within the lovely wizardfic. This suggests yet another parallel: if the versions of the characters who entered the wizardfic are "more real" (more psychologically detailed characters) than the "puppets" who were already in it, this corresponds to the players of the various sessions being more psychologically detailed characters than their adult versions. Which in turn means that Slinus Marlevort aka Grant Anonama would correspond to an adult who escaped their "story" - Meenah Peixes aka Her Imperious Condescension.
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Dec 14, 2012 21:41
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Bongo Bill posted:I now think I was mistaken about my assumption that the new narration can't supersede the old. Look: What seems to be happening here is that the pages on "Jump a head a little" and "Skip to the end" are after the end of the original fic, because no more comic sans appears. When Roxy reached the end of what she'd written before, she continued writing. She maintains a conceit that the children are prisoners to another text, but she is herself not bound by that text. Which makes it interesting that this is where the serious self-loathing shows up--it's not just "oh, I really don't like this writing I did years ago", it's more fundamental. Actually, what this is really reminding me of is Karkat.
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Dec 14, 2012 22:52
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Carrasco posted:What seems to be happening here is that the pages on "Jump a head a little" and "Skip to the end" are after the end of the original fic, because no more comic sans appears. When Roxy reached the end of what she'd written before, she continued writing. Or it could be like when Dirk edited Pony Pals. Jane states after a few pages of changing the text slightly, he started rewriting the whole book towards the end. http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006341 quote:Later, about halfway through the book, rather than see the gag through to the bitter end, Strider began pasting over entire pages of original text with his own completely rewritten version of the story, while keeping all the chapter titles. His revision is a tough, emotionally draining read. But it's cathartic, in all the worst ways possible.
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Dec 14, 2012 22:55
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H.P. Shivcraft posted:What I'd pitch, then, is that Wizardy Herbert is the tale of three-maybe-four friends who stumble across a book of totally stupid and terrible wizardfic, written in Comic Sans. Three of these maybe-four friends, through means unknown, become trapped inside, and are forced to live through the narrative constraints but still have room for ironic play (the non-Comic Sans text). However, in the process they discover that their fourth maybe-friend was in fact a character in the lovely wizardfic all along, who escaped through means even more unknown, took a false name, and then led his 'friends' to discover and trap themselves within the fic, probably as part of a convoluted plot to maintain his own freedom. Four sessions of players - the living from A2, B1, B2, and U - stumble across a game. They become entangled within the orbit of the Green Sun through means unknown and convoluted, and are forced to play the game but still have room for maneuver outside (the Yellow Yard, the Furthest Ring). However, in the process they discover that U was in fact home to the Green Sun's greatest champion all along, who escaped through means even more unknown, took a false name, and then orchestrated the others sessions' discovery and entrapment within the game as a convoluted plot to maintain his own freedom. Not sure where A1 fits into this.
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Dec 14, 2012 22:57
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Meenah found a copy on her moon, and seaking her own freedom coerced the others into playing it.
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Dec 14, 2012 23:39
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Bell_ posted:seaking Nicely done. 
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Dec 14, 2012 23:45
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I tried reading the wizardfic. I wanted it so badly. I can't do it you guys It's just such a wall of text. It's why I stopped reading a while ago. Hussie was doing so much better with the panel/text ratios.Maybe another time.
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Dec 14, 2012 23:54
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SNOOP CATTE posted:I tried reading the wizardfic. I wanted it so badly. Yeah I too hate it when people write words that are funny and interesting.
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Dec 15, 2012 00:02
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Homestuck: Literature studies for the post-literate.
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Dec 15, 2012 00:27
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| # ? May 21, 2024 11:25 |
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Carrasco posted:What seems to be happening here is that the pages on "Jump a head a little" and "Skip to the end" are after the end of the original fic, because no more comic sans appears. When Roxy reached the end of what she'd written before, she continued writing. I want to believe, instead, that this page: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=007478 just had an illustration and the word "SPORTS" written on it, three times, and she chose to write an entire paragraph fitting those SPORTS in perfectly. edit: Also, please ignore how retarded my last post was. Make it from my tablet, and the autocorrect hosed up a bunch of words without my noticing.
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Dec 15, 2012 00:54
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