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After I beat up a TKD black belt in mma stand-up sparring, without having any dedicated stand-up training myself, I kind of lost respect for it as anything but a base to build something else on, in terms of actual fightsports. I caught so many kicks and turned them into trips that I felt like Anderson Silva or something E; To be fair to TKD, I guess you can get those black belts with like two years of training? http://www.itatkd.com/tkdmintime.html
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Dec 14, 2012 14:27
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Don't be the guy in grappling class fighting back tears because what he really wants is to do spin kicks in pajamas. Follow your heart.
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Dec 14, 2012 14:45
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Who could possibly would want to do spin kicks when pajamas hugging people is an alternative?
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Dec 14, 2012 15:42
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Bohemian Nights posted:After I beat up a TKD black belt in mma stand-up sparring, without having any dedicated stand-up training myself, I kind of lost respect for it as anything but a base to build something else on, in terms of actual fightsports.  that's...like, intermediate level, 5th Kup.Okay, so I get that TKD isn't EXACTLY as respected as other martial arts (definitely nowhere near the level of say, Krav Maga or something because that poo poo is brutal), but, would you guys agree that TKD is at least an entry-level martial art? I only took it because it was the only class available in my area, and my social worker set me up for it because I wanted to do martial arts more to get out and DO something, and I'm forever thankful to have done TKD in giving me an increase in my endurance and reflexes, at the very least. Kekekela posted:I'd guess its since most TKD schools don't have full contact sparring and this thread is sort of MMA centric with a dash of sword fighting. The people I've trained with from TKD backgrounds all have insane kicks, so its certainly got that going for it. I wanted a traditional martial art to learn, and I got it, so can't say fairer than that  But fair enough, I can see this thread has a better centre within MMA and such. Actually I'd love to do MMA moreso because, well, much as I love rules and regulations (though I'm sure MMA has some), you just wanna go all...hog wild sometimes yanno. (Also nobody loving uses Hwoarang in Tekken because goddammit stop loving changing stances  )swmmrmanshen posted:Well, the standard internet opinion is 'LoL TKD is for kids and is weak BJJ gracies for lyfe!". It was a good thing to learn! Like I said, it appears to be an entry-level martial art, not as vicious as kickboxing, not as complicated as say, Jeet-Kune-Do (I'm guessing), but still something most people can get into relatively well to get the more traditional martial art experience...right?  I mean, don't get me wrong, I loved doing it. I just stopped because they changed the times and it became unreasonable for me to keep going when it was so far away, plus the dojang fell on hard times and I was getting real disillusioned with the whole thing. But hey, least I left the school five years later with a rank of 5th Kup. So I'm not mad  it was fun! And I have at least one martial art under my belt, but I would like to do more.
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Dec 14, 2012 15:57
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One of our instructors is a TKD BLACK BELT. He thought it was the coolest with the tornado kicks and poo poo when he was a kid. He teaches boxing these days. edit: hmmm that might sound a bit weird, I have to add he has I think two decades of experience in all sorts of martial arts not just TKD, including boxing and MT. I think he has spent most of his time in dingy boxing gyms. Bohemian Nights posted:Who could possibly would want to do spin kicks when pajamas hugging people is an alternative? You crazy? Flying spin kicks are AWESOME. I wish I could do those and both hit something and not fall down at the same time  Who cares if its useful! Hugging people in pajamas really isn't either! Ligur fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Dec 14, 2012 |
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Dec 14, 2012 16:27
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Julio Cesar Fatass posted:Don't be the guy in grappling class fighting back tears because what he really wants is to do spin kicks in pajamas. Follow your heart. Flying triangles my friend. Flying triangles. EDIT: I think I briefly mentioned TKD in the OP. IDK, it doesn't come up very much since we mostly talk about whats between our legs be they man or sword.
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Dec 14, 2012 17:01
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FinalGamer posted:
I don't really believe in such things as "entry-level martial arts." The vast majority of martial arts are intended to be studied independently, and in fact many of them developed in times and places where they were the only game in town. If you want to get good at boxing, just start boxing, that's what boxing trainers are for. There's a time and a place for cross-training but spending years away from your primary style, either before or after you have started learning that style, is not the best way to pursue excellence in it. I guess if you're into kung fu sometimes you have to progress to a certain level before they will start teaching the secret White Crane Tai Chi or whatever. They do seem to have a notion of "entry-level" styles there. I don't know how well that's working out for them (certainly not in the MMA cage, but whatever). Anyway I doubt any of them would say to go learn TKD and then come back. Of course some martial arts schools are more appropriate for children than others, so if that's our idea of "entry level" then I guess I agree. Also for the record Krav Maga gets a pretty bad rap around here too. McNerd fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Dec 14, 2012 |
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Dec 14, 2012 18:01
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I respect TKD a lot more than Krav Maga. TKD is in the olympics at least
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Dec 14, 2012 18:04
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I've started to develop a real dislike for Krav because it seems like the latest strain of dumb is "of course <whatever TMA> doesn't work but Krav Maga, now that poo poo is the real deal!" Its the same loving thing as all those "useless" TMAs. Same rote training style, same stupid scenario based bullshit. poo poo at least TKD competes in their own weird ruleset. You can't just pretend to be an olympic champ. Krav May be worse than stuff like aikido and kungfu at least they offer some kind of mental/personal development. miming eye gouges and imagining knee breaks is loving dumb.
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Dec 14, 2012 18:09
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McNerd posted:Also for the record Krav Maga gets a pretty bad rap around here too, but whatever. What are you gonna do when all of your neighbours want to loving kill the poo poo out of you? loving kill the poo poo out of them before they even THINK about doing it. Gotta admit, I understand why it exists, and I think it's badass as hell. Lot of martial arts wanna be all "ohhh no no it's self-defence you only fight if you HAVE to". Krav Maga just goes "gently caress that, you touch me you die you goy motherfucker." ...at least that's what I know about it, I could very well be wrong in my ignorance of non-eastern martial arts. mewse posted:I respect TKD a lot more than Krav Maga. TKD is in the olympics at least The women's boxing was better. That's not an insult to women's boxing because it was AWESOME but holy poo poo TKD was such bullshit to watch. Technicalities, strafing around, BARELY any flashy kicks going on, I was disappointed as hell.
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Dec 14, 2012 18:09
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FinalGamer posted:Well for the record in turn, I respect Krav Maga as being a badass martial art created out of necessity in a land filled with hatred, violence and subjugation from every single direction. Sorry but that is not so relevant. The response to being surrounded by hostile nations was that Israel bought a ton of tanks, airplanes and guns. A martial art has absolutely no impact in any of the wars and military activities that the IDF has been involved in. It's not like these guys had their hand to hand skills honed to levels never before seen by mankind due to their regular experience with patrolling borders in armed vehicles or bombing Gaza with white phosphorus. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Dec 14, 2012 |
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Dec 14, 2012 18:54
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DxiW1xwqLM
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Dec 14, 2012 18:58
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Krav Maga is dumb and talking about Krav Maga is dumb. Spending three minutes of your five minute grappling match idly batting your opponent's hands away, then tearing your achilles tendon doing the world's slowest British Double is the height of masculinity. 
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Dec 14, 2012 19:04
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The only true skill a fighter needs is the flying triangle. I have meditated many hours in a cave beneath a waterfall on making my flying triangle into a true hurricanrana. TKD is also cooler than Krav Maga.
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Dec 14, 2012 19:15
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lilljonas posted:Sorry but that is not so relevant. The response to being surrounded by hostile nations was that Israel bought a ton of tanks, airplanes and guns. A martial art has absolutely no impact in any of the wars and military activities that the IDF has been involved in. Also, I don't think the US army or any other army is afraid to stomp on a testicle if the need arises. Israeli soldiers have no more or less need for brutal efficiency than any other soldier has. (Okay, some soldiers will never see combat, but their trainers hardly assume that.)
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Dec 14, 2012 19:15
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Hah, alrighty then, thanks for the education and making me feel better about knowing TKD so what other martial arts out there are best known for crazy-awesome kicks, or are at the very least centred around legwork? I know of kickboxing of course, and the legendary Muay Thai but that's about it.
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Dec 14, 2012 19:19
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Capoeira all the way baby. Also I've been watching Cung Le since he was a san shou competitor. Pretty fun stuff, kickboxing with takedowns and I think throws. (They stand you back up, but it's worth points.) So if you ever want to see someone combo a spinning back kick into a flying scissor kick under actual "this dude is trying to knock me out" conditions, look that up.
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Dec 14, 2012 19:27
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I don't know about 'centered' on leg work necessarily, but I cross trained some kung-fu in the inner city (read: ghetto) when I was younger along side my Muay Thai. It didn't help my MT technique but it really whips you into shape and you'll probably learn flips and stuff and just generally be really comfortable with your combat mobility. Also some kung-fu has some really cool weapons stuff to play around with. I don't know too much about kung-fu generally but my limited experience was a lot of fun. Don't try to eagle claw someone's throat when you're mounted though, that's how I taught sifu the armbar. e: Capoeira. Of course.  I see a ton of them around lately taking advantage of BJJ's success by advertising places as "Brazillian Martial Arts" and whatnot. If you learn Capoeria you'll also learn to speak passable portuguese.
Novum fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Dec 14, 2012 |
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Dec 14, 2012 19:28
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I have a TKD black belt and the only memory I have from TKD is the owners fat son yelling "Hey Mike Tyson stop punching so much!" at me. I do have to credit TKD with one thing it made me really flexible, and hammered in stretch before and after workouts.
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Dec 14, 2012 19:33
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KidDynamite posted:I have a TKD black belt and the only memory I have from TKD is the owners fat son yelling "Hey Mike Tyson stop punching so much!" at me. I do have to credit TKD with one thing it made me really flexible, and hammered in stretch before and after workouts. That reminds me of the time I was asked to spar with a Kung-Fu instructor who after about a minute asked me to use hands only, because he, "Couldn't deal with all that kicking stuff just yet."
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Dec 14, 2012 19:43
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When I was searching around as a newbie I checked out a TKD place. They also did "knife disarms" that were the stupidest things I have ever seen. Their "knife disarm" was grabbing the wrist, and then chopping the TOP of the wrist with your other hand (mere inches from the blade), which would limp their wrist and then you could grab the knife (by the blade too because the instructor said you can just pinch the blade). Then the fact there were like 8 year old black belts made me cringe. But, whatever, TKD is basically fencing with your feet, not really a martial art. Also, jesus christ, your whole spiel about Krav Maga made me cringe. What are you, 14? 15? But seriously if you want a primarily kicking style sport with "live" training obviously check out Muay Thai and anything else thats not just foot fencing like TKD
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Dec 14, 2012 20:05
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swagger like us posted:Then the fact there were like 8 year old black belts made me cringe. But, whatever, TKD is basically fencing with your feet, not really a martial art. *ahem* fencing isn't a real martial art?
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Dec 14, 2012 20:25
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Just let it go. It's not even a fun derail.
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Dec 14, 2012 20:27
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Some people really enjoy foot tag!
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Dec 14, 2012 21:49
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Ligur posted:Who cares if its useful! Hugging people in pajamas really isn't either! It really is! I'm a hospital security guard, which means I basically double as a male nurse every time someone needs to be held down, and pajamas hugging pretty much allows me to do my job, while probably weighing half as much as my colleagues, in both actual weight and experience. I do get what you're saying, though, and I agree- but in my specific situation, a roundhouse kick would give me jailtime, while pajamas hugging and the basic knowledge of body mechanics and leverage that follows, makes my working life so much easier!
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Dec 14, 2012 22:17
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You'd be famous in that hospital until the end of time if you roundhouse kicked a patient into submission. Don't do this, but you can if you want to be famous. Just saying.
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Dec 14, 2012 22:22
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If I want a burly man to pajama hug me all I have to do is engage in some impromptu public fencing.
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Dec 14, 2012 22:25
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Zombywuf posted:What's wrong with the gloves being steel? They eat up everything that hits them. Shinaï, wood, nylons all die horribly from extended periods of beating on steel, and even steel blades get a bit more nicking and denting. And they're a bit dangerous, accidently punching someone or grabbing them is a lot less fun when it's done with steel. And the risk of something going wrong anyway and now there's a big metal splinter sticking out of your rear end. Hence why steel gear is banned at pretty much every place I've been to. Also, generally, when people think they can't get hurt anymore (which is false) they tend to spazz out and start fighting sloppily and hitting harder, causing more injuries for everyone.
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Dec 14, 2012 23:01
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FinalGamer posted:Hah, alrighty then, thanks for the education and making me feel better about knowing TKD There are some Savate guys in this thread, but all I know about Savate I learned from that one fight in Who Am I.
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Dec 15, 2012 07:34
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Rhaka posted:They eat up everything that hits them. Shinaï, wood, nylons all die horribly from extended periods of beating on steel, and even steel blades get a bit more nicking and denting. quote:And they're a bit dangerous, accidently punching someone or grabbing them is a lot less fun when it's done with steel. And the risk of something going wrong anyway and now there's a big metal splinter sticking out of your rear end. Hence why steel gear is banned at pretty much every place I've been to. quote:Also, generally, when people think they can't get hurt anymore (which is false) they tend to spazz out and start fighting sloppily and hitting harder, causing more injuries for everyone.
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Dec 15, 2012 12:05
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Julio Cesar Fatass posted:There are some Savate guys in this thread, but all I know about Savate I learned from that one fight in Who Am I. But I'm pretty sure my TKD isn't gonna be used in a Darwinian contest across human history to earn the right to not die through the use of a lovely control layout. Oh well. 
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Dec 15, 2012 13:50
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FinalGamer posted:It also loosely got me into Bruce Lee as an inspiration.
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Dec 15, 2012 14:08
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I recognize that my TKD post was lovely, but Niethan just brings it to the sewer. As an apology, have a flying armbar: 
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Dec 15, 2012 14:32
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Bohemian Nights posted:It really is! I'm a hospital security guard, which means I basically double as a male nurse every time someone needs to be held down, and pajamas hugging pretty much allows me to do my job, while probably weighing half as much as my colleagues, in both actual weight and experience. I do remember where you work so grappling IS no doubt useful for you. Grappling, as minimal as mine is, has been useful for me too the few times I've been stupid and went on to stop a fight i.e. nobody got hurt. Like you figured out, I was just sayin' most of us don't need it ever. Hell, back in the day when doormen and bouncers were allowed to manhandle customers who attacked them most of them were boxers or wrestlers, and the old hands say they were scary: the boxers punch too fast (becasue that's what they do) and wrestlers would bodyslam aggressive drunks who got on their face. A former collegiate wrestler slamming a drunk can KILL the drunk, damnit, in the 80s or early 90s a bouncer in a rough bar with BJJ would have been the poo poo. FinalGamer posted:Hah, alrighty then, thanks for the education and making me feel better about knowing TKD Watch this, my friend. Boxe Française is all about footwork, distancing, crazy kicks and in full contact mixed with snappy and efficient English boxing. It's awesome, I bet you'd love it. These guys can fight for real too. (Or at least that is what I'm holding to and will refuse to fold on the issue.) And even while I do gay French sailor boxing, nobody in the thread gives me poo poo for that ever, so doing TKD is fine. Julio Cesar Fatass posted:There are some Savate guys in this thread, but all I know about Savate I learned from that one fight in Who Am I. I'm probably the only Savate guy in the thread I think right now? Then there was the other one who had a panda on his avatar who did it for a while years and years ago IIRC? And the past year or two I've been mostly doing boxing, the groin injury I sustained back when doing BJJ somewhat still limits my high kicks, or something, so while I was never a flashy kicker, I'm even worse now. I still love it though, I'm just no good at it and never stretch enough. Ligur fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Dec 15, 2012 |
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Dec 15, 2012 15:12
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Judo seems better suited, than bjj for bouncing, what with the emphasis on grabbing onto clothing, landing on top and control.
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Dec 15, 2012 15:16
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niethan posted:Judo seems better suited, than bjj for bouncing, what with the emphasis on grabbing onto clothing, landing on top and control. Well sort of. Judo is probably as good for bouncing as anything, not sure though if better than BJJ. At least as long as you don't throw people down too hard with your amazing judo. They will hit their heads and joints on the floor and walls add poo poo when they fall down unless you catch them. I just see so many violent throws in Judo it would scare me in a customer situation. That was and is the problem with wrestler bouncers mentioned, they could take people down, without punching which is always good in court and otherwise too, but they accidentally do it too hard, on the floor, and the drunks would injure themselves falling down beneath them. edit: that got me thinking, I posit that for a bouncer or a doorman, after being a really pleasant and calm person who makes friends easily (the most important things by far), and possibly physically big and somewhat intimidating in appearance to calm the very stupid/drunk/substance abusing customers, the best MA would be some sort of grappling with pajamas, locks and without too many throws. Ligur fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Dec 15, 2012 |
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Dec 15, 2012 15:19
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FinalGamer posted:Hah, alrighty then, thanks for the education and making me feel better about knowing TKD And after watching the video I posted above, please avail yourself to this if you feel like flashy kicks. I love that poo poo. It's more kick orietend than the other clip and blows my mind how fast they move, kick and throw hand-foot combinations AND slip all at the same time.
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Dec 15, 2012 15:52
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niethan posted:Judo seems better suited, than bjj for bouncing, what with the emphasis on grabbing onto clothing, landing on top and control. Judo guys are the best suited guys around. Suck it patchwearers
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Dec 15, 2012 19:34
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I used to take TKD when I was in my teens. It was a great workout, and I do think the kicking technique could be useful in a full contact discipline. I mean, Barboza's spinning hook kick KO on Etim was awesome, if very impractical in most situations. I think a lot of the bad rep that TKD gets is because the majority of schools are really awful. In the city that I was living in, there was one good school that had an average of around seven to eight years of training to get a black belt. The rest of the schools averaged around one to two years. They also taught lovely technique and didn't put nearly enough emphasis on strength and conditioning training. In more pajama-hugging relevant news, I'll finally have the chance to start taking BJJ classes after the Christmas break. I've been meaning to start for a few years but haven't had the chance until now. I'm horribly out of shape at the moment, so I'm looking forward to feeling like absolute poo poo during the first couple of weeks of training.
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Dec 15, 2012 23:21
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Ligur posted:And after watching the video I posted above, please avail yourself to this if you feel like flashy kicks. I love that poo poo. It's more kick orietend than the other clip and blows my mind how fast they move, kick and throw hand-foot combinations AND slip all at the same time. You should check out Keiji Ozaki while you're at it. Super technical striking will never not look awesome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZfzqCmt5W8
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Dec 16, 2012 00:01
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