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api call girl posted:#23 "Light burn me," Rand said. "You're not him, are you?" That would certainly make the most sense. And would be a great scene.
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Dec 18, 2012 20:11
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Jedit posted:Rand becomes the last person to realise Taim isn't Demandred. The rest of Randland says, "See, we told you!" Even though Jordan apparently explicitly denied this, I continue to believe that it was originally the case, but he later retconned it. The "so-called Aiel" line Taim says early on cinches this for me. The original Forsaken were the only characters who would even have a reason to say this. 
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Dec 18, 2012 21:08
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Yeah I'm convinced that's the case too. I feel like everyone picked up on that secret too easily, so he changed his mind later on.
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Dec 18, 2012 21:58
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I dunno, he didn't flat-out deny much, if he said it I'll buy it. There may well be a reason for that line.
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Dec 18, 2012 22:20
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That line could be a complete unintentional red herring too. It's way too vague to jump on and say LOOK HE'S DEMANDRED. It also works far better if Taim becomes a Forsaken because of Rand, much like Sammael and Demandred became Forsaken because of Lews Therin.
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Dec 18, 2012 22:40
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It could also be Rand talking to someone who's been circle-of-thirteen'd.
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Dec 18, 2012 22:42
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It could also be Rand talking to someone who's been circle-of-thirteen'd. Has any character actually ever been "circle-of-thirteen'd" that we know of? It would be cool if we get a scene involving that.
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Dec 18, 2012 22:50
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A bunch of Asha'man have (there was that character who experienced all his friends going in for a 'meeting' with Taim and coming back essentially evil) but I don't think a POV character or close friend of one has.
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Dec 18, 2012 22:52
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syphon posted:A bunch of Asha'man have (there was that character who experienced all his friends going in for a 'meeting' with Taim and coming back essentially evil) but I don't think a POV character or close friend of one has. Tarna Feir had one POV section (in KoD chapter 25) and was 13x13'd in ToM.
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Dec 18, 2012 23:08
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api call girl posted:That line could be a complete unintentional red herring too. It's way too vague to jump on and say LOOK HE'S DEMANDRED. I dunno. It seems like a line that no one but a Forsaken or someone who had lived in the Age of Legends would use. To anyone born in the Third Age Aiel would just be Aiel. Only someone who had known what they were before would be capable of slipping up and referring to them as 'so-called Aiel'. I believe Taim was introduced in the same book that introduced Osan'gar and Aran'gar, so maybe he was initially intended to be a different dead Forsaken reincarnated? It's fine that Jordan retconned it, as he seemed to have retconned a few other little things about the Power and the Warder Bond and such, but I'm not sure I'll ever be convinced that the Taim thing wasn't a retcon. Hieronymous Alloy posted:It could also be Rand talking to someone who's been circle-of-thirteen'd. That just makes you evil, or lets the Shadow mind control you or something, I don't think it gives you knowledge of the ancient Aiel. I kept hoping (even though I knew it wouldn't happen) that one of the main characters would get 13'd. I kept suspecting it would be Elayne, because everyone was trying to kidnap her. Sure, your babies will be born safely. SAFELY EVIL!
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Dec 19, 2012 01:33
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What I'm saying is the fandom has latched on to two words and read a world of meaning into them that probably wasn't intended in the first place.
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Dec 19, 2012 01:39
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api call girl posted:What I'm saying is the fandom has latched on to two words and read a world of meaning into them that probably wasn't intended in the first place. Oh, I guess it's possible it was a mistake, but Jordan seemed to like to use subtle little 'throw-away' lines like that to hint at things, and it was 'set up' by having other Forsaken use that exact phrasing earlier in the series, so I'm inclined to think it was on purpose, even if he later changed his mind.  I want to say it was Lanfear or Asmodeon that said 'so-called Aiel' first?
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Dec 19, 2012 02:08
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api call girl posted:What I'm saying is the fandom has latched on to two words and read a world of meaning into them that probably wasn't intended in the first place.
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Dec 19, 2012 02:15
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The only other usage of "so-called Aiel" in the series that I'm aware of is done by Ishamael/Moridin. That doesn't suggest Taim is Demandred, it suggests Taim is linked in some fashion to Ishamael. (KoD and ToM further this by having Taim adopt Moridin's colors and then favoring the "missing" hand that Moridin does since Rand loses his in KoD) and then AMoL prologue throws a wrench into that by elevating Taim to a new Forsaken without further mention of similarities to Moridin. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Dec 19, 2012 |
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Dec 19, 2012 02:31
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Fintilgin posted:
I think Hieronymous Alloy was positing someone that today's AMoL snippet could involve, not an explanation for Taim. (I like the "Taim is the kind of guy who likes wordplay" explanation for "so-called Aiel" - it's not that he's saying "these aren't the pacifists I remember from the Second Age" but rather that he's saying "Do you really think they're all that dedicated? Aiel means dedicated, get it?" This theory is reinforced by AMoL spoilers He started calling himself M'Hael when Rand gave him the Black Tower to run, and now that's his actual name. "Hey guys, I'm Leader! No, I don't mean I'm your leader, my name is Leader, because I'm everybody's leader, get it?")
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Dec 19, 2012 02:37
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api call girl posted:#23 "Light burn me," Rand said. "You're not him, are you?" Almost certainly. We had a few of those before and it never gets stale.
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Dec 19, 2012 09:49
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api call girl posted:The only other usage of "so-called Aiel" in the series that I'm aware of is done by Ishamael/Moridin. That doesn't suggest Taim is Demandred, it suggests Taim is linked in some fashion to Ishamael. (KoD and ToM further this by having Taim adopt Moridin's colors and then favoring the "missing" hand that Moridin does since Rand loses his in KoD) Another (AMOL preview chapters) spoilery explanation: The corrupted Aiel in the blight could fairly easily be a source of circle-of-13 hijinx and/or training for Taim, which would provide a pretty obvious cultural contrast to the (more) normal Aiel.
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Dec 19, 2012 11:19
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Velius posted:Another (AMOL preview chapters) spoilery explanation: The corrupted Aiel in the blight could fairly easily be a source of circle-of-13 hijinx and/or training for Taim, which would provide a pretty obvious cultural contrast to the (more) normal Aiel. That might end up being the reason (it's been brought up before), but it still seems sort of forced to me if that's the case. You don't say "so-called" to the main/normal group of people just because you've met the hosed up version.
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Dec 19, 2012 15:19
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Wow I read these books 5 years ago over the course of three months. Reading this thread makes me feel like I missed a lot  .
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Dec 19, 2012 19:02
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SHISHKABOB posted:Wow I read these books 5 years ago over the course of three months. Reading this thread makes me feel like I missed a lot If you haven't read the entire series 5 times over, you missed a lot.
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Dec 19, 2012 19:04
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Day 24: "There were many good years. Good decades, good centuries. We believed we were living in paradise. Perhaps that was our downfall. We wanted our lives to be perfect, so we ignored imperfections. Problems were magnified through inattention, and war might have become inevitable if the Bore hadn't ever been made." Wow. I can't wait to read the conversation containing that one. I'm guessing it's Lanfear.
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Dec 19, 2012 19:24
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werdnam posted:Day 24: "There were many good years. Good decades, good centuries. We believed we were living in paradise. Perhaps that was our downfall. We wanted our lives to be perfect, so we ignored imperfections. Problems were magnified through inattention, and war might have become inevitable if the Bore hadn't ever been made." Could be Moridin, in a "and now here we are, at the end of all things" kind of speech. But you're probably right.
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Dec 19, 2012 19:35
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Could even be Rand, because he seems to have fully integrated his Lews Therin memories and has access to them all. He is one with Lews now.
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Dec 19, 2012 19:40
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Fintilgin posted:Could even be Rand, because he seems to have fully integrated his Lews Therin memories and has access to them all. He is one with Lews now. That was what I thought when I read it. Or Moridin. The quote seems a little too introspective for Lanfear, she was never really one for that sort of thing.
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Dec 19, 2012 22:17
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So, was anybody here lucky enough to get the book shipped to them early? Apparently Chapters made a mistake and sent the book out to an unknown number of people. Hopefully spoilers don't get spammed everywhere now.
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Dec 20, 2012 15:56
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Troll Bridgington posted:So, was anybody here lucky enough to get the book shipped to them early? No but I would kill for a copy now that I am done with school and work is shut down for Christmas.
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Dec 20, 2012 18:36
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Arrrrrrgh holidays start in 2 days (week and a half off of work) and I will have nothing to do (but to e-stalk people who got a copy). e: Well, also there's the baby. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Dec 20, 2012 |
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Dec 20, 2012 18:43
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Troll Bridgington posted:So, was anybody here lucky enough to get the book shipped to them early? Doesn't this basically happen for every big release of anything ever? I pre-ordered from Amazon with release day shipping and am half-expecting to get it a day or two early. Oh, and Day 25: "Oh, blood and ashes, no!" Cadsuane said, spinning on them. "No, no, no." Something's got Cadsuane mighty upset for her to start spewing curses.
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Dec 20, 2012 20:07
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werdnam posted:Doesn't this basically happen for every big release of anything ever? I pre-ordered from Amazon with release day shipping and am half-expecting to get it a day or two early. One of her underlings must have overcooked the tea.
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Dec 20, 2012 20:38
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Troll Bridgington posted:So, was anybody here lucky enough to get the book shipped to them early? Snape kills Moiraine.
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Dec 20, 2012 20:43
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The very first time somebody gets in this thread talking about how they have the book is the day I go on lock down until after I'm done.
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Dec 20, 2012 20:56
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werdnam posted:Doesn't this basically happen for every big release of anything ever? I pre-ordered from Amazon with release day shipping and am half-expecting to get it a day or two early. Perrin then hands Mat a fifty, in disbelief he lost that bet.
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Dec 20, 2012 21:47
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Special emphasis: "Oh, blood and ashes, no!" Cadsuane said, spinning on them. "No, no, no."
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Dec 20, 2012 22:17
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api call girl posted:Special emphasis: I can't help but picturing her spinning around with her arms out while standing on people for this.
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Dec 20, 2012 23:31
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api call girl posted:Special emphasis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV4zcuF2fe8
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Dec 20, 2012 23:44
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werdnam posted:Doesn't this basically happen for every big release of anything ever? I pre-ordered from Amazon with release day shipping and am half-expecting to get it a day or two early. When I read that, I got the mental of image of Cadsuane riding the teacups at Disney World and realizing she's about to throw up.
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Dec 20, 2012 23:57
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I feel good today, I actually got a friend to borrow my copy of Eye of the World. His first response after reading awhile was, "Man this Lews Therin guy had it rough, and I don't know what it had to do with the first chapter". I don't think he knows what he's getting into.
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Dec 21, 2012 07:57
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I sometimes wonder if I could read the whole series now if I hadn't started way back in the day...like if it would just be too intimidating and too difficult to get through with all of its quirks. Then again, I read the Malazan series in the past couple of years... fake edit: ahahaha I just told my wife that the last book is coming out on January 8th, thinking she'd be excited, and she was like "what?? noooooooooo!!! I have to work on my dissertation I don't have time to read it!" (she defends at the beginning of March so the next couple of months are serious crunch time)
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Dec 21, 2012 13:25
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Levitate posted:fake edit: ahahaha I just told my wife that the last book is coming out on January 8th, thinking she'd be excited, and she was like "what?? noooooooooo!!! I have to work on my dissertation I don't have time to read it!" (she defends at the beginning of March so the next couple of months are serious crunch time) I'm the same way, I have quals in February. And it's going to sit there taunting me.
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Dec 21, 2012 14:25
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calandryll posted:I'm the same way, I have quals in February. And it's going to sit there taunting me. I'll be at a conference in Ohio from the 7th through the 11th. 
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Dec 21, 2012 15:38
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