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The GIG posted:Sound logic and 13 being mentioned in the same post is the most hilarious thing I read all day. You should read more of GBS or, better yet, E/N.
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Dec 29, 2012 06:02
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Aureon posted:It's like hating 13 is a new religion or something, i swear. That's 12's thing.
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Dec 29, 2012 06:07
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Aureon posted:It's like hating 13 is a new religion or something, i swear. I was hating 13 with the intensity of an acetylene torch within a month of its release. Talk about a title that has literally no business existing as a finished product.
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Dec 29, 2012 06:09
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Oxxidation posted:I was hating 13 with the intensity of an acetylene torch within a month of its release. Talk about a title that has literally no business existing as a finished product. With sequels, now. 
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Dec 29, 2012 06:33
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The few things I'll give 13 is that it's battle system worked really well when the solution the the battle you were in wasn't "Get three COM's, slam face on auto-battle until win music plays", some of the characters were pretty good (Sazh mostly, Lightning and Fang depending on the scene), and the graphics and music deserved a better game. Everything else just felt like crap: The story was very badly done (The major offender being the fact EXTREMELY VITAL pieces of the story were shoved into very much optional battles and missions), the antagonists felt like after thoughts, the setting just felt "there" and a lot of locations seemed to only have "Looks very pretty" going for them, and the biggest problem is that it started a series that led to whatever the gently caress Lightning is wearing in 13-3 and really that's just something unforgivable. 
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Dec 29, 2012 06:41
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The GIG posted:Everything else just felt like crap: The story was very badly done (The major offender being the fact EXTREMELY VITAL pieces of the story were shoved into very much optional battles and missions), the antagonists felt like after thoughts, the setting just felt "there" and a lot of locations seemed to only have "Looks very pretty" going for them, In some way or another this describes every post-SNES Final Fantasy to me. Maybe not 9 for the most part. Maybe that's why I don't get the Burning Hatred for FFXIII. It felt like exactly more of what I was expecting from FF. A bit more linear and a bit less lovely combat but right in line with my expectations. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Dec 29, 2012 |
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Dec 29, 2012 06:48
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The GIG posted:The few things I'll give 13 is that it's battle system worked really well when the solution the the battle you were in wasn't "Get three COM's, slam face on auto-battle until win music plays", But why would you do that boring way of playing when you can win fights faster and more efficiently by actually playing the game in front of you? At the very least go one COM two RAV to autobattle faceslam so it doesn't take an eternity to fill up that bar.
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Dec 29, 2012 06:49
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If you break the battle system and keep enc-none on, Final Fantasy 8 kind of becomes the world's most laid back adventure game. The story is still mostly crap, but the music and locations are nice enough.
microwave casserole fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Dec 29, 2012 |
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Dec 29, 2012 06:54
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:With sequels, now. I disliked 13 but I really did like 13-2, I thought it was great.
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Dec 29, 2012 06:57
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FF8 (also like just about every PSX-era RPG created) would be easier to go back to if it had an automap or a minimap or something. The prerendered backgrounds all at different angles makes it so difficult to get oriented.
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Dec 29, 2012 07:03
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Where exactly is this Enc-None junction? I think I would enjoy the game a lot more if I could pick and choose when to fight.
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Dec 29, 2012 07:21
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Mill Village posted:Where exactly is this Enc-None junction? I think I would enjoy the game a lot more if I could pick and choose when to fight. It's an ability of Diabolos's. You have to master Enc-Half first.
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Dec 29, 2012 07:23
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Use the Magic Lamp you got from Cid to summon a boss fight. When you win, you get a GF that can learn Enc-Half, which I think costs 100 AP (70?). After you learn that, it unlocks Enc-None which costs like 200 or 250.
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Dec 29, 2012 07:25
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ImpAtom posted:In some way or another this describes every post-SNES Final Fantasy to me. Maybe not 9 for the most part. Maybe that's why I don't get the Burning Hatred for FFXIII. It felt like exactly more of what I was expecting from FF. A bit more linear and a bit less lovely combat but right in line with my expectations. Well this all seems like a bit of hyperbole here. Several of the post SNES games did not have an antagonist that was an "afterthought," important plot details put in hidden optional material, settings that felt just "there" and a lot of locations that seemed to only have "Looks very pretty" going for them. I mean, at the very least, look at XII: the antagonists were not an afterthought; if anything, the PROtagonists were. No vital plot information was hidden or optional (the bestiary and optional hunts just added flavor), Ivalice as a setting is pretty rich in history, culture, and general flavor, and the world was cleverly interconnected and begs to be explored. Likewise, I don't think you could say Sephiroth, Sin, or even Seifer were "afterthoughts." 7 has some pretty important plot in optional scenes, but I don't remember any of the other games doing that. Ok, 8 had some pretty obtuse and hidden lore, but the story was such a clusterfuck to begin with I don't think you can call any of it vitally important. Edit: Oh, I forgot the scene with Seymore's mom in X... well, even that is questionable in how important it is. vvv I mentioned Seifer because he has more of a logical character development arc than anyone else in the game except maybe Laguna. Maybe. Schwartzcough fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Dec 29, 2012 |
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Dec 29, 2012 08:12
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Seifer is a massive afterthought. He is set up as an antagonist of sorts in the beginning of FF8, but it's more of a "he's kind of a dick but he sorta cares." Then he gets involved in witches and becomes a total douchebag. We sort of ignore him for most of Disc 2, and then he shows up again in Disc 3, ragged and useless. He's never a hugely threatening force, aside from the hilarious torture scene in Disc 2. The most interesting feature of Seifer is the fact that his ideals are based off of a movie Laguna was a part of. But the story tries to be so much larger than him, that he comes off as an angsty, and ultimately useless, villain.
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Dec 29, 2012 08:17
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Azure_Horizon posted:The most interesting feature of Seifer is the fact that his ideals are based off of a movie Laguna was a part of. But the story tries to be so much larger than him, that he comes off as an angsty, and ultimately useless, villain.
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Dec 29, 2012 08:23
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Armor-Piercing posted:Isn't that how he's supposed to come off? He's a childhood rival, inspired by a movie (and mind control or whatever) to become a part of something much bigger than himself, where his role ends up being much less important than he'd imagined. He got the cool job he always wanted as a kid and it ended up being awful in reality. But the thing is, the game doesn't focus on this enough for you to care. Seifer kind of steps out of the picture for large swathes of time, and in the big picture, means jack poo poo. The way Seifer is set up in Disc 1 would have made him a really interesting villain, but his slow descent into madness is incredibly rushed and jarring since you go for such long periods without even seeing him. Disc 3 is particularly horrible in this regard when it comes to Seifer, who then shows up in Lunatic Pandora as a mixture of old Seifer and controlled Seifer... by that point, even his big speeches lose their impact. Basically, "ROMANTIC DREAM" Seifer is more interesting than mind-controlled Seifer, by a country mile. And that's saying a lot, when virtually no one else in the game is interesting.
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Dec 29, 2012 08:25
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I don't mind that it doesn't show every step of the process, personally. I mean, part of the reason it happens is because he's isolated like that, and Squall (and the player) don't need to be present for things to happen in the world. If he showed up constantly and I saw every step of the process I would probably get sick of him pretty quickly, and the change is more striking to me when he only shows his face every so often.
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Dec 29, 2012 08:35
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Schwartzcough posted:Well this all seems like a bit of hyperbole here. No, it really isn't. FF7 had a lot of basic and important information either hidden behind obtuse scenes or *not actually in the game to begin with.* (The Zack scene was added to the US version!) It had a lot of areas which existed largely to look pretty without a lot of thought behind them. Sephiroth wasn't an afterthought but a lot of other members of Shinra were. Several of them vanish from the game without much explanation. They were able to mistranslate "Tseng dies" without it seeming egregious because he literally just vanishes from the game after getting stabbed. FF8 is a complete mess as you pointed out. FFX is, again, a case where the villains you spend most of the game with basically feel like secondary characters or ridiculous reoccuring idiots like Seymour. (A character who brutally destroys a ton of people offscreen!) Sin is well handled but the bulk of the villains suck pretty hard. Several character plot points are hidden behind optional quests as well. FFXII had the best-realized worldsetting of the bunch but it still was less interesting than Tactics Ogre, FFT or Vagrant Story so I wasn't that impressed with it. It also had a combat system I hated and found incredibly boring. People build FF games they like up in their mind to be these amazing things when they're not. They're largely linear, largely have pretty lovely battle systems largely have pretty stupid stories, and make up for it with flash and the occasional moment of excellence which gets (deservedly) remembered. Yet for some reason this can only translate into hyperbole where "overly linear and kind of stupid" somehow means "the worst game ever made, how could this possible go to print?!" ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Dec 29, 2012 |
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Dec 29, 2012 09:12
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Re: villains being an afterthought, I will say that I've never understood the thing in 4, 8, and 9 where a new antagonist shows up in the last hour (or two minutes in 9's case) of the game to be the final boss. It's like they thought having Golbez or Kuja be the final boss would be too straightforward, when in actuality a well-developed villain is a good thing - part of why people love 6/7 and Kefka/Sephiroth so much is they show up constantly throughout the game to screw with the player and really build up the desire for a confrontation. Golbez fits the to a T, until suddenly he's not possessed anymore and it was magic space demon. You can sort of include 10 on that list too, as Seymour would be the obvious one there, but Braska's Final Aeon and Yevon sort of make thematic sense too and aren't just random bullshit like in the other games. So I guess I'm complaining about an old thing they're over at this point, but I really don't understand why they did it to start with. EDIT: VVV yeah I missed that but Xenogears is a lot like other games of that era (FF7 and FFT) in that its story actually mostly makes sense and is just fine and even comparatively pretty good for a JRPG, but is just a mess due to a poor localization and confusing script Baku fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Dec 29, 2012 |
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Dec 29, 2012 09:20
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big duck equals goose posted:xenogears has no logical story and makes zero loving sense. Yes it does. It's presented badly due to the game's budget dying, but the plot does make sense if you can muddle through that.
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Dec 29, 2012 09:20
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ImpAtom posted:No, it really isn't. Well, battle systems weren't at issue here, so that's kind of off-topic; just because you hated a game doesn't mean it had the faults at issue. And I admit that most of the games have characters here or there that aren't well fleshed-out, or some environments that don't do much, but none of the games had ALL the problem areas, nor was the issue that EVERY character should be well-handled, but that NONE of the antagonists were any good in XIII. It's a far cry between "XIII has all of the following problems" and "every game since 6 has one or two of those problems, sorta, to a much lesser extent. Therefore they're all equally sucky."
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Dec 29, 2012 09:24
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Zombies' Downfall posted:Re: villains being an afterthought, I will say that I've never understood the thing in 4, 8, and 9 where a new antagonist shows up in the last hour (or two minutes in 9's case) of the game to be the final boss. It's like they thought having Golbez or Kuja be the final boss would be too straightforward, when in actuality a well-developed villain is a good thing - part of why people love 6/7 and Kefka/Sephiroth so much is they show up constantly throughout the game to screw with the player and really build up the desire for a confrontation. Golbez fits the to a T, until suddenly he's not possessed anymore and it was magic space demon. For 9, at the very least, I can only assume Necron is just a callback to Chaos/Cloud of Darkness/Zeromus/Ultimecia of old, since the game is a massive love letter to the older games. Then there's that story FAQ I read on GameFAQs once that decided he's the Iifa tree or something but I don't think they put that much thought into it.
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Dec 29, 2012 09:25
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Schwartzcough posted:Well, battle systems weren't at issue here, so that's kind of off-topic; just because you hated a game doesn't mean it had the faults at issue. And I admit that most of the games have characters here or there that aren't well fleshed-out, or some environments that don't do much, but none of the games had ALL the problem areas, nor was the issue that EVERY character should be well-handled, but that NONE of the antagonists were any good in XIII. It's a far cry between "XIII has all of the following problems" and "every game since 6 has one or two of those problems, sorta, to a much lesser extent. Therefore they're all equally sucky." FFXIII's only meaningful antagonists (the Fal'cie) are reasonably fleshed out. They're not very good but their motivations and desires are clearly stated and they remain a driving force throughout the game, even if they don't get a literal personification until Space Pope shows up. It's basically Toriyama repeating poo poo he did in FFX again but more ineptly because he is a very bad writer.
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Dec 29, 2012 09:28
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Every game is the worst game/best game in the series.
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Dec 29, 2012 09:29
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Terper posted:Every game is the worst game/best game in the series. Except Tactics Advanced. It's just the worst .
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Dec 29, 2012 09:32
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Terper posted:Every game is the worst game/best game in the series. Final Fantasy (8) Megathread. ZenMasterBullshit posted:Except Tactics Advanced. I will fight a motherfucker over this. You and me by the flag pole after the bell!
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Dec 29, 2012 09:34
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The GIG posted:Final Fantasy (8) Megathread. You broke the Motherfucker Law, go directly to jail, lose the fight, pay me 2 grand to not be jailed, repeat for every random battle til the halfway point where you unlock law cards. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Dec 29, 2012 |
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Dec 29, 2012 09:35
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The last time I said 2 was objectively the worst Final Fantasy game like half a dozen people piped in to argue that it really wasn't that bad or they enjoy it more than the other two NES games or something like that, which is totally absurd and insane, but at the same time I'm not sure what people complaining about "best/worst game" arguments expect a Final Fantasy thread to talk about in 2013. There hasn't been a new mainseries game or interesting spinoff released in the US in like two and a half years.
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Dec 29, 2012 09:38
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Zombies' Downfall posted:The last time I said 2 was objectively the worst Final Fantasy game like half a dozen people piped in to argue that it really wasn't that bad or they enjoy it more than the other two NES games or something like that, which is totally absurd and insane, but at the same time I'm not sure what people complaining about "best/worst game" arguments expect a Final Fantasy thread to talk about in 2013. There hasn't been a new mainseries game or interesting spinoff released in the US in like two and a half years. It's depressing to realize we've been trapped in the FFXIII continuity for that long, and with no end in sight.
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Dec 29, 2012 09:40
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I liked Four Heroes of Light.  Also I've heard Dimensions is pretty fun. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Dec 29, 2012 |
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Dec 29, 2012 09:42
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Oxxidation posted:It's depressing to realize we've been trapped in the FFXIII continuity for that long, and with no end in sight.
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Dec 29, 2012 09:42
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Endorph posted:If only we had a pair of time traveling idiots to set us free. You're absolutely right. It's time to call Bill and Ted.
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Dec 29, 2012 09:45
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Oxxidation posted:You're absolutely right.
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Dec 29, 2012 09:47
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ImpAtom posted:I liked Four Heroes of Light. Both of these games fall into this trap of like "hey remember back in the good old days of the NES/SNES when we made good games and you loved us", though. Which is doubly annoying because they made really good PSX and PS2 games too and it's like they didn't notice or care! I am rather sick of FF1-4, and I loved FF4 as a kid. Endorph posted:If only we had a pair of time traveling idiots to set us free. The thread is like that Loony Tunes with Daffy Duck and Speedy where Daffy has the can opener and Speedy has the cans, only we have all the idiots and no time machines. It is a car analogy
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Dec 29, 2012 09:51
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Zombies' Downfall posted:Both of these games fall into this trap of like "hey remember back in the good old days of the NES/SNES when we made good games and you loved us", though. Which is doubly annoying because they made really good PSX and PS2 games too and it's like they didn't notice or care! I am rather sick of FF1-4, and I loved FF4 as a kid. I don't know about Dimensions but HoL is nostalgic without feeling like an exact clone. I don't think that's a bad thing. Getting rid of MP was really nice for one. I'd rather companies remember what made their games fun compared to S-E's latest attempts which are mostly inept flailing. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Dec 29, 2012 |
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Dec 29, 2012 09:54
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ImpAtom posted:Also I've heard Dimensions is pretty fun. I first described Dimensions as a love letter to the SNES games. After playing it more, I refined it to describe Dimensions not as a love letter, but rather that creepy stalker who always follows you around, tries to learn everything about you, has a shrine in their room dedicated to you, and imitates your every action while everyone moves out of the way, each wondering more than the last when the creepy stalker ends up on the 11 o'clock news. Unfortunately, it's a drat addicting creepy stalker.
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Dec 29, 2012 11:09
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Endorph posted:I would totally play a Bill and Ted JRPG, I'm not even going to lie. A Bill & Ted video game? Be careful what you wish for.
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Dec 29, 2012 11:37
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I don't know quite what it is, but Dimensions doesn't really capture the same magic to me that 3-6 did. Maybe it's because I actively hate most of the characters for being so god drat boring (for gently caress's sake, the only interesting character refers to herself in the third person), or the wasted potential of the plot (though it seems to be picking up a bit, I have no faith in them executing a good plot because TAY), or the rather slow manner you unlock extra jobs. At least the game's difficult enough to be challenging to get through, though this also kind of punishes you for experimenting, as it's really hard to justify having a Summoner for instance since they only have one expensive (but awesome) attack to contribute for awhile. That said, I still haven't played too far, but every dungeon has felt the same to me. Linear or maze-ish affair with lots of branching paths to treasure. Which of course is like every other dungeon in the series, but there's just something off about Dimensions's dungeons to me. I don't know, it's really hard to explain. Still going to beat this thing so I can bitch about it some more.
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Dec 29, 2012 13:21
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Mega64 posted:it's really hard to justify having a Summoner for instance since they only have one expensive (but awesome) attack to contribute for awhile. It's hard to justify Summoner in general, for the most part; they have the highest natural MP in the game, but just barely - certainly not enough to make them a solid choice for their expensive-rear end spells, even putting aside their method of acquisition. In the early game, it's not a terrible idea to use one because Summon is a great source of multi-target elemental damage that is both more powerful than -ra spells and doesn't suffer damage split (Ramuh is frankly awesome in the Bard's Chapter), but they pretty quickly lose their luster. They're best used to get Gale Crescent for a cheap Wind attack and MP+20% for your mages, then completely ignoring them until endgame when some neat Fusion Abilities like Grand Delta, Mega Raise and Gigaflare become available. Shaezerus fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Dec 29, 2012 |
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Dec 29, 2012 16:03
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