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We all agree that B1 Bro and B2 Dirk more or less exist simultaneously, correct? And that both had a Cal growing up. So it's either that Bro did not get his Cal from his meteor, or that there truly were at least two Cals (an "empty" one and "full" one) due to the scratch's bifurcation. There shouldn't be too many other possibilities.
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Jan 2, 2013 23:05
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Okay Cal's timeline we've focused pretty well on and it makes as much sense as it will. What about Sebastian? Last we saw he was in the B2 medium, right? So we don't know how he got there.
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Jan 2, 2013 23:07
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Cleretic posted:Okay Cal's timeline we've focused pretty well on and it makes as much sense as it will. That's been pretty easy to follow so far. Dirk makes Li'l Seb, and sends him to Jane. Jane brings him into the medium with her. Li'l Seb follows Jane to Derse. Jane dies, and Dirk instructs Li'l Seb to drag Jake back to Hellmurder Island (back on B2 Earth) using the Derse teleporter to the Frog Temple. In the process of delivering Jake back to his house, Li'l Seb is knocked off course and falls into the ocean. After the B2 kids enter the medium, something happens to B2 Earth that involves Makeout Meteor crashing into it, and potentially being moved outside of B2 into an unknown universe, with Li'l Seb still on it. Cal(liope|iborn) end up living on the Makeout Meteor lodged in Earth, and Earth follows Caliborn into the dead session via kernelsprite-blackhole. Caliborn searches the remains of Earth and finds Li'l Seb.
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Jan 2, 2013 23:15
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Cleretic posted:Okay Cal's timeline we've focused pretty well on and it makes as much sense as it will. Lil Seb carried Jake back to the Frog Temple, and was there shot down by a dragon and sank into the ocean.
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Jan 2, 2013 23:18
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Now I hope caliborn's juju was a pumpkin.
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Jan 2, 2013 23:22
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Seoinin posted:We're approaching a point of convergence between parody and reality Wasn't that pretty much Dave's mission of irony? To make it so that the lovely parody becomes the genuine masterwork, and vice-versa? And by Dave's mission, I mean Hussie's mission.
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Jan 2, 2013 23:33
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Sorry to interrupt Calchat but I think I just got a shipping email for my Seerpack! 
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Jan 2, 2013 23:48
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quote:uu: YOUR HUMAN CONCEPT OF GAYNESS. ADEQUATELY DESCRIBES THE FEELINGS I HAVE. WHEN I EMBRACE MY PERFECT FLOPPY LITTLE MAN. Somehow my eyes completely skipped over this line right here the first time I read the page, so when I re-read it I had to stop because I was nearly hysterically laughing. Few lines in Homestuck can compare to this one, right here.
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Jan 3, 2013 00:24
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Cleretic posted:Okay Cal's timeline we've focused pretty well on and it makes as much sense as it will. Caliborn says that he found the B2 Lil Cal under the soil of his planet (which is, of course, Earth). Presumably, he found Lil Seb the same way. Also I'm sorry but that giant computer Caliborn is using is the worst mishmash of Google Image Search photos Hussie has assembled yet, and that's saying something.
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Jan 3, 2013 00:28
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nerdbot posted:Caliborn says that he found the B2 Lil Cal under the soil of his planet (which is, of course, Earth). Presumably, he found Lil Seb the same way. I thought that was the point
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Jan 3, 2013 00:32
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Here's a fun theory from tumblr about Caliborn's and Calliope's jujus. - Ouroboros - Two things, useless on their own, that combine into the most magic thing ever - Hussie keeps putting Neverending Story allusions in the story.  This is the symbol from the cover of the titular book in the movie, The Neverending Story. It's a two-snake (of different colors!) Ouroboros. In the sequel, it comes off the book and becomes an amulet that grants unlimited wishes (at a cost). It is basically "the most magic thing ever". And tumblr tells me that the book version had eyes of red and green. The cost of the amulet is that it makes you forget things. And now this juju is being given to Jake, who is so slow and forgetful that people here have suggested he might be brain damaged. Bobulus fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jan 3, 2013 |
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Jan 3, 2013 00:49
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Bobulus posted:Here's a fun theory from tumblr about Caliborn's and Calliope's jujus. Wow, it's like some sort of... mobius double reach-around????
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Jan 3, 2013 01:00
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Further symbolism relating to cherubs' need to merge their personalities in order to attain maturity, which is just a fantasy literalization of regular old maturation. Additionally, it symbolizes the need to not be alone, which pretty much every character (or at least every human) is set up to experience in some form or another. The combination of all the aspects of one's being into one's fully realized self, the consideration and collapse of all one's possible selves, the help and intervention of the others against whom one defines oneself, the protection and guidance of one's forbears. It's all there. We're getting at stuff that is adjacent to the main theme of the entire comic. You'll find symbolic parallels of increasing frequency and strength. (Homestuck exhibits many thematic similarities to The Neverending Story, so even were it not filled with conspicuous direct allusion, you could expect them both to use to similar classical symbols anyway.)
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Jan 3, 2013 01:11
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Hussie loves his intertextuality. Or, in more prosaic words, the reference pile keeps getting taller.
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Jan 3, 2013 01:13
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Cat Mattress posted:Hussie loves his intertextuality. Or, in more prosaic words, the reference pile keeps getting taller. Yup. There's definitely allusion involved here. In The Neverending Story, Bastian uses the amulet to change Fantasia according to his imagination, searching for a way out. I think there's a metaphor for both Caliborn inserting himself into the story and the cast as a whole looking for an exit from the current paradox space. But in the end, there was no end to Fantasia, except through the amulet itself. And on the back of the amulet was written "Do What You Will". We understand that to be an expression of free will and choices. Since in Homestuck the juju will only work when the halves are united, I think that says a lot about the themes of Homestuck as a whole and what the key will be to "winning" in the end. If you think about it, Roxy's rewrite of Wizardly Herbert follows these same themes. It's waaaaay more of a Neverending Story reference than a Harry Potter one.
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Jan 3, 2013 01:17
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Another Neverending Story reference was Roxy staring out in the the void through a window. She'd also promised to shout a name into the same void. Doing both at once is the climax of TNS. Anyway, we know Calliope's juju was glowing green, and we can presume Caliborn's is opposite, so if it really is the TNS Ouroboros, that they'd look something like this: 
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Jan 3, 2013 01:33
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nerdbot posted:Also I'm sorry but that giant computer Caliborn is using is the worst mishmash of Google Image Search photos Hussie has assembled yet, and that's saying something. I think it's kind of cool, like kitbashing but with images instead of airfix.
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Jan 3, 2013 01:37
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Did we see Caliborn get his gold tooth? Last I remember, he was making do with his candy corn one. Now it's the proper Lord English-y gold one.
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Jan 3, 2013 01:47
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Don't forget that one scene that showed AH riding the dragon dog thing from The Never Ending Story with the flashing billiard ball eyes. I can't find that panel right now though. EDIT: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004971 
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Jan 3, 2013 01:48
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CuddlyZombie posted:Did we see Caliborn get his gold tooth? Last I remember, he was making do with his candy corn one. Now it's the proper Lord English-y gold one. No, you're right. The last time we saw his face was in A6I4, when he'd just put in the candy corn tooth. Signs of time passing, I guess, as with Gamzee's healed wounds and outfit. (And longer hair, possibly.)
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Jan 3, 2013 01:56
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nerdbot posted:Also I'm sorry but that giant computer Caliborn is using is the worst mishmash of Google Image Search photos Hussie has assembled yet, and that's saying something. It is, if nothing else, one of many examples of taking a style that looks "lovely" and using it to hint at a certain type of reading. His old strips, not to mention Jailbreak, Bard Quest, and early Problem Sleuth, are drawn like hasty scribbles, a style which still shows up. Homestuck contrasts its more pedestrian sprite, dramatic, "hero mode," walkabout, etc. styles with Google Image Search results, artifacts, and sometimes even each other to various ends. Sometimes changing the style (a notable example is when Brobot punched Jake so hard he fell down in a different style) is used, and the use of different styles is even mentioned (and then alluded to). Some styles are attributed to particular characters - and this extends not just to art but to writing too. Just be glad he doesn't take deliberate ugliness as far as, say, j chastain. That guy's work gets downright unaccessible.
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Jan 3, 2013 02:00
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Bongo Bill posted:Just be glad he doesn't take deliberate ugliness as far as, say, j chastain. That guy's work gets downright unaccessible. J Chastain's quality is a discussion for another thread (but I think you're mondo wrong if you are saying anything other than that their work is great), but SBAHJ is all about glorious things that are conventionally ugly. It's hard to compare them in degrees because they take it in different directions.
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Jan 3, 2013 02:21
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Mr. Lobe posted:J Chastain's quality is a discussion for another thread (but I think you're mondo wrong if you are saying anything other than that their work is great), but SBAHJ is all about glorious things that are conventionally ugly. It's hard to compare them in degrees because they take it in different directions. It is great! I'm just bitter about how the use of a particular sound effect in Goblet Grotto makes it hard to play in a way that has nothing to do with gameplay difficulty. Is there a J Chastain thread somewhere? But yes, it's clear these two use ugliness for very different purposes. The very concept of glorious ugliness implies that glory and beauty are different things, which I think is a thematically relevant assertion for reasons I don't think I can articulate yet.
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Jan 3, 2013 02:31
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Bongo Bill posted:It is great! I'm just bitter about how the use of a particular sound effect in Goblet Grotto makes it hard to play in a way that has nothing to do with gameplay difficulty. Is there a J Chastain thread somewhere? But yes, it's clear these two use ugliness for very different purposes. The webcomics thread would probably the the place to talk up or down j chastain, but it sounds like you are on the right side of the Good Opinions line so nevermind that. As for glory and ugly, well. Things can be conventionally ugly in that they are significant or even alarming deviations from commonly accepted "good quality aesthetics" yet still have a beauty or desirable quality (glory or coolness or whatever). Maybe it's because in their aberration they highlight certain interesting truths, or that they can display a kind of compelling absurdity that conventionally benign aesthetics cannot. In other words, I think there are similar reasons for liking SBaHJ kind of weirdness as J Chastain weirdness or even David Lynch weirdness.
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Jan 3, 2013 02:43
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A very delayed thought: There was some conversation a while ago about how Calliope has swirly cheeks and Caliborn does not. In rewatching Caliborn: Enter, I'm pretty sure a cherub's cheeks fill in when they "win" against their other side. That's why they appear as swirls at first and then fill in because the swap happens when Calliope dies or whatever.
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Jan 3, 2013 03:02
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Bongo Bill posted:The very concept of glorious ugliness implies that glory and beauty are different things, which I think is a thematically relevant assertion for reasons I don't think I can articulate yet. This makes me think of Calliope. The concept of "Beauty = good, ugly = bad" has been a staple of storytelling forever, and Homestuck is nothing if not somewhat capable of challenging certain traditional tenets. It's already had the interesting quality of humanizing a character in a positive way before revealing that their true form was one which couldn't really be considered traditionally aesthetically pleasing. In fact, if one views a less stylized interpretation possibly closer to what "reality" would be, possibly kind of horrifying. Calliope herself is rather aware of this and has little confidence in any acceptance based upon it, and given all the themes involving growing up in the story I have a feeling this issue of her appearance is going to come to a head(or skull  ) at some point, as much as she's wanted to avoid it.
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Jan 3, 2013 03:44
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Midnight Raider posted:In fact, if one views a less stylized interpretation possibly closer to what "reality" would be, possibly kind of horrifying. That will never not make me laugh.
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Jan 3, 2013 04:32
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Not that I'm not entertained by irony sometimes, but I hope that for Hussie's next work (after the game) he makes something totally sincere and non-ironic. Come on Hussie, you can do it. Stop being so insecure. Stop cringing away from drama. Grow. Edit: ok, that was a bit melodramatic, and to clarify I'm not against characters being ironic (eg Dave) or humor in general, but sometimes I wish Hussie would stand by his story and drama instead of constantly undermining it as if to say "hee hee, it's all just a big joke after all". Because in many cases that's not actually true and the irony seems more like a way to try to preempt criticism and avoid taking responsibility for his own work. ShardPhoenix fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jan 3, 2013 |
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Jan 3, 2013 11:41
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ShardPhoenix posted:Not that I'm not entertained by irony sometimes, but I hope that for Hussie's next work (after the game) he makes something totally sincere and non-ironic. Come on Hussie, you can do it. Stop being so insecure. Stop cringing away from drama. Grow. Sincerity is just the Ultimate Irony anyway.
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Jan 3, 2013 11:51
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Technique posted:Sincerity is just the Ultimate Irony anyway.
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Jan 3, 2013 11:54
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when was the last time we got a new Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff anyway.
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Jan 3, 2013 22:31
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Too long ago. I don't think Hussie will ever update SBAHJ ever again. I think he's bored of it. 
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Jan 3, 2013 22:54
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Haa haa. Hee hee. Hoo hoo. It winked oh god it's alive! 
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Jan 3, 2013 23:30
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Color Printer posted:Haa haa. OH GOD AAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!! Ok. Now we know why Cal is so creepy and now we know that he really IS talking to people. Also it seems like his timeline starts in B2 somehow. This loving update.
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Jan 3, 2013 23:36
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This isn't vector art like usual. This is pixels. This is Homestuck as Lord English would draw it.
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Jan 3, 2013 23:40
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pumpinglemma posted:I've said it before, I'll say it again: Lil Cal is alive, sentient, and a goddamn menace. loving called it. *shudder*
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Jan 3, 2013 23:42
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Huh. Gamzee seems surprised, almost. Or is he receiving instructions?havenwaters posted:Also it seems like his timeline starts in B2 somehow. The outfit makes it clear that this is the Cal taken by Jack from B1 Bro, the one that ended up on Alternia. Before this, he was last seen with Gamzee at the beginning of the meteor's journey.
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Jan 3, 2013 23:45
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Freudian posted:This isn't vector art like usual. This is pixels. This is Homestuck as Lord English would draw it. Homestuck has always been pixels, so that it is reminiscent of video games.
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Jan 3, 2013 23:45
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I wonder he's about to get some nice new Derse pajamas...
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Jan 3, 2013 23:46
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Line Feed posted:Homestuck has always been pixels, so that it is reminiscent of video games. No, like:  vs:  compare with: 
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Jan 3, 2013 23:51
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