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Samurai Sanders posted:Well, on the other hand, the Jin story is about the Shu kingdom's descent into idealistic flailing, so there's that. Haven't gotten around to playing Jin's story yet (it's the only one I have left) but I'm looking forward to that. It got especially ridiculous in Wu's story when Sun Shangxiang is basically ready to jump Liu Bei's bones as soon as he shows up and once they're married off basically seems to immediately hold far more loyalty to Shu/Liu Bei than the rest of her family.
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Jan 3, 2013 05:46
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And Liu Shan is less "He totally wasn't that bad guys!" and more "He knows he's poo poo so he sits and let's the people who weren't spiked like a football as a baby do their jobs." Edit: THat is my favorite Liu Shan RotTK fact by the way: quote:Moved by his retainer's loyalty, Liu Bei angrily threw his infant son to the ground. He blamed the crying child for nearly killing one of his greatest retainers. Many readers remark that the crushing blow may have caused Liu Shan's ineptitude. The GIG fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Jan 3, 2013 |
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Jan 3, 2013 05:49
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The GIG posted:And Liu Shan is less "He totally wasn't that bad guys!" and more "He knows he's poo poo so he sits and let's the people who weren't spiked like a football as a baby do their jobs." Yeah, Liu Shan as portrayed in DW7 seemed like someone who desperately wanted to give no fucks, but everyone around him was just too insane. And yes, the Shu campaign is probably the weakest of the 4 story modes, but I do this it has the best stage (Fan Castle Part 2: never has  felt so right).
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Jan 3, 2013 06:29
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I started playing the series recently (DW7XL and WO3) with the impression that they are basically good hack and slash... But somehow found myself actually liking some of the characters and wants to know what happens next in the story (WO3). A pleasant surprise. Also, is it just me, or Diao Chan seems to have an extremely powerful moveset?
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Jan 3, 2013 06:46
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Suben posted:Haven't gotten around to playing Jin's story yet (it's the only one I have left) but I'm looking forward to that. It got especially ridiculous in Wu's story when Sun Shangxiang is basically ready to jump Liu Bei's bones as soon as he shows up and once they're married off basically seems to immediately hold far more loyalty to Shu/Liu Bei than the rest of her family. This is actually pretty close to how she is in the novel, so I don't get the complaint here.
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Jan 3, 2013 06:57
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Suben posted:Also, Shu is powered by excessive amounts of benevolence and virtue. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G_DB-WhbR4
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Jan 3, 2013 08:19
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Suben posted:Extremely late on actually playing DW7 and hoooooly gently caress is Shu's story mode The Worst. Like I know they tend to get preferential treatment in the series and in the novel but DW7 seems to have ramped it up to obscene levels to the point where even the book would be like "dude, tone it down a bit would you". The Three Brothers are the greatest people ever and every officer of Shu is just oh so noble and purehearted but none moreso than Liu Bei who is far more good than Jesus Christ himself and if you so much as side glance at him then you're an irredeemably terrible person and Shu is so good that even their famously incompetent ruler Liu Shan is actually a beacon of righteousness. Also, Shu is powered by excessive amounts of benevolence and virtue. Suben posted:Meanwhile Wu is just going to slide more and more into irrelevance with each game and late era Wu and dudes like Lu Kang may as well not exist considering they're getting Lu Su and Han Dang if the leaked roster is true, and it's been right so far.  As for your overall point though... post-Yiling Wu might as well not exist in the novel thanks to the Shu vs. Wei focus, so I'm not sure how much there is for KOEI to work with, considering the very specific story that KOEI's writers seemed to want to tell in 7.Then again, considering how obviously the Jin story is a focus for DW7, I wouldn't be surprised if that was why the Shu story was so weak as to be almost self-parody.
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Jan 3, 2013 09:23
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Playing Jin's story now and I do appreciate the constant stream of "Their drive for BENEVOLENCE is just making things worse" with Shu. Things kind of nosedive once Sima Zhao becomes the main character though just because he's a pretty generic shonen hero type (awesome but lazy and kind of a doofus) and Wang Yuanji is just kind of otakubait. Zhuge Dan's probably my favorite Jin character if only because his little story is the most interesting thing there as a guy brought down by obsession and hatred. Well favorite character after Deng Ai, of course.
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Jan 4, 2013 09:24
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Zhao gets better once he starts taking after his father.
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Jan 4, 2013 11:37
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Weissritter posted:I started playing the series recently (DW7XL and WO3) with the impression that they are basically good hack and slash... But somehow found myself actually liking some of the characters and wants to know what happens next in the story (WO3). Characters in WO3 apparently only comes in two varieties, horrendously overpowered or virtually useless. Are Koei having a laugh with how boring and crap Yukimura Sanada is in that game because he's the 'main' character in Sengoku Basara?
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Jan 4, 2013 14:28
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Sakurazuka posted:Characters in WO3 apparently only comes in two varieties, horrendously overpowered or virtually useless. Probably has more to do with the changes they made to characters for DW7's larger enemy groups. Every DW character is a complete beast while most of the SW characters are a lot more low-key, with fewer attacks that just destroy everything on screen, because that's how SW games still play (maybe as a consequence of being made for the Wii? Just sayin).
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Jan 4, 2013 14:59
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tooooooo bad posted:Probably has more to do with the changes they made to characters for DW7's larger enemy groups. Every DW character is a complete beast while most of the SW characters are a lot more low-key, with fewer attacks that just destroy everything on screen, because that's how SW games still play (maybe as a consequence of being made for the Wii? Just sayin).
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Jan 4, 2013 15:16
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I don't know, I felt once they got to a higher level, the SW characters were way more fun to play as since they often had more variety in their attacks compared to the mostly cloned DW cast. Even the DW characters that got decloned just for WO3 (Xiahou Yuan, Jiang Wei, and Sima Shi are the ones off the top of my head that got major revamps to their charges and moveset) for the most part just feel too close to the base set.
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Jan 4, 2013 15:21
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Sakurazuka posted:Are Koei having a laugh with how boring and crap Yukimura Sanada is in that game because he's the 'main' character in Sengoku Basara? He's actually the main character of Samurai Warriors too (as much as anyone can be, he's the Zhao Yun of SW). And I like his moveset a lot. He doesn't have good crowd clearing but his moves are focused on killing a single guy really well.
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Jan 4, 2013 18:13
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The GIG posted:I don't know, I felt once they got to a higher level, the SW characters were way more fun to play as since they often had more variety in their attacks compared to the mostly cloned DW cast. Even the DW characters that got decloned just for WO3 (Xiahou Yuan, Jiang Wei, and Sima Shi are the ones off the top of my head that got major revamps to their charges and moveset) for the most part just feel too close to the base set. I gotta disagree. I never felt like there was an overwhelming amount of variety in the SW crew's moves and I never felt that the DW guys were lacking it. What I do know is that most SW people can't stay still during their attacks and it makes it annoying trying to do Chaos levels with them. The handful of cloned movesets don't bother me either, since I'm completely changing my team every two or three stages. It's hard to even notice that some people are similar if you've gone 20 or so stages between similar movesets.
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Jan 4, 2013 18:19
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The series has a definite power creep going on. 7 revamped and made for a lot of massive crowds, whereas some Samurai Warriors characters are basically unchanged since 2004. Samurai Warriors characters also lost a lot of their unique mechanics due to the way Orochi works. Gracia lost her spell list(although they compensated her by making her standard attacks stronger unlike WO2), The self buff mechanics for a lot of characters suddenly get a lot less valuable(Nobunaga, Ginchiyo, Kanbei, Toshiee), Musashi lost his get his musuo back instantly move. The Musuos themselves face a double whammy - unlike DW characters where they can Musuo and use some R1s, it's one or the other for them. And Musuos based around super-comboing your enemy (Masamune, Kanetsugu, Musashi, Azai, etc.) seem horrendously gutted and don't do all that much damage - whereas I don't really see that problem with any DW character. That said, some SW characters still play well in spite of the disadvantages. Hideyoshi has really good combos and range, Katsuie has always been made for thousands of enemies, Ranmaru seems like he'd come out pretty good at higher level play, Kiyomasa has a better scythe moveset than Yue Ying. I think their are less comically 'bad' SW characters (really, only Imagawa and Goemon come to mind - meant to be terrible and hasn't been updated since SW1. And Mitsunari. gently caress Ishida) then 'bad' DW characters (Xu Zhu and Huang Gai are terrible due to the club moveset, the Rapier is usable but not really fun). Even the lower end middle of the pack characters probably play better - (Okuni/No/Shingen > Zhenji/Iron Fan/Greatsword). I'm not through all of Chaos yet, but I'm going to say it ultimately doesn't matter because you could probably take a team of Xu Zhu/Imagawa/Gyuki through if you had Brilliance. Hoping that changes when I get to harder stages. Belzac posted:He's actually the main character of Samurai Warriors too (as much as anyone can be, he's the Zhao Yun of SW). And I like his moveset a lot. He doesn't have good crowd clearing but his moves are focused on killing a single guy really well. I never understood Capcom picking on Kanetsugu if it's meant to be a jab at Koei. Kanetsugu isn't really ever that super revered in the SW games - he's shown as a member of a trio with Ishida/Yukimura, representing the Uesugi, which is the peak of of whitewashing. He betrays them in multiple paths, and is the rear end of the games jokes often (He's excessively long winded, has a fascination with the word Honor - and actually gets called on it.) Wheresmy5bucks fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jan 4, 2013 |
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Jan 4, 2013 18:24
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I took Tachibana Ginchiyo to 99 and she is my carry character, with the measure of a man ruler sword and reach on it her base combo kills everything on screen and then some, its quick mindless spam to victory.
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Jan 4, 2013 18:26
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Wheresmy5bucks posted:That said, some SW characters still play well in spite of the disadvantages. Hideyoshi has really good combos and range, Katsuie has always been made for thousands of enemies, Ranmaru seems like he'd come out pretty good at higher level play, Kiyomasa has a better scythe moveset than Yue Ying. I think their are less comically 'bad' SW characters (really, only Imagawa and Goemon come to mind - meant to be terrible and hasn't been updated since SW1. And Mitsunari. gently caress Ishida) then 'bad' DW characters (Xu Zhu and Huang Gai are terrible due to the club moveset, the Rapier is usable but not really fun). Even the lower end middle of the pack characters probably play better - (Okuni/No/Shingen > Zhenji/Iron Fan/Greatsword).  I'm pretty sure Xiahou Ba is universally regarded as one of the best if not the best character in the game. Also the Qiaos are remarkably better than Okuni and Shingen. Xu Zhu and Huang Gai are at least measurably better.
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Jan 4, 2013 18:42
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Jibo posted:
Looked up some Chaos solo vids on YouTube to reconsider my analysis. Looked up Ba on YouTube. K, guess that's some use then. DW7 bias carrying though, greatsword was awful there, and I'm pretty sure Ba didn't have that buff. Guan Ping seems pretty bad, and was disappointed by him in 7 since I remember him in DW5 being pretty good. I've not done piles of testing, I think for most I only played them once to max out proficiency, so it was gut reactions to playing the characters(growthed them all to Lv20 for full movesets beforehand). I'll defer on most. Not budging on Xu Zhu being terrible. Hate him in every game. Huang Gai is cool because neck drop suplexes make up for it. I show favor to utterly impractical wrestling moves in a battlefield.
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Jan 4, 2013 19:16
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Wheresmy5bucks posted:Not budging on Xu Zhu being terrible. Hate him in every game. He's not so bad in Next because you can use his R attack to quickly cancel out of his long post-attack animations (this applies to all characters but is a technique that can turn a lovely character into a great character).
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Jan 5, 2013 04:07
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Wheresmy5bucks posted:Kiyomasa has a better scythe moveset than Yue Ying. Come to think of it, that's another problem with SW characters, they don't have EX Attacks. quote:I'm not through all of Chaos yet, but I'm going to say it ultimately doesn't matter because you could probably take a team of Xu Zhu/Imagawa/Gyuki through if you had Brilliance. Hoping that changes when I get to harder stages.
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Jan 5, 2013 06:41
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One of the things I'm hoping they fix in 8 that kind of seemed odd to me is the lack of in-battle events compared to previous games besides "(faction) reinforcements have arrived!" and such. Like no stuff such as Pang Tong chaining the ships together at Chibi or Ma Dai assassinating Wei Yan on Zhuge Liang's orders; it's only hinted at before the Wuzhang Plains which is kind of weird considering it's Ma Dai's most notable moment.
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Jan 5, 2013 22:28
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In fairness, Ma Dai's assassination of Wei Yan was after Zhuge Liang's death.
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Jan 5, 2013 23:15
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So I'm completely new to the series, I'm just finishing off the Jin campaign at the moment in DW7 (and absolutely loving the game). Wu are awesome, Sun Jian is awesome and bites it way too soon. What's the difference between Dynasty Warriors 7 and Dynasty Warriors 7 Empires? Is Empires a separate game or is it an expansion pack like Extreme Legends?
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Jan 5, 2013 23:42
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Suben posted:One of the things I'm hoping they fix in 8 that kind of seemed odd to me is the lack of in-battle events compared to previous games besides "(faction) reinforcements have arrived!" and such. Like no stuff such as Pang Tong chaining the ships together at Chibi or Ma Dai assassinating Wei Yan on Zhuge Liang's orders; it's only hinted at before the Wuzhang Plains which is kind of weird considering it's Ma Dai's most notable moment. The magical land of benevolence won't permit this. Instead, Ma Dai runs to his rescue and they bro it out throughout a couple of XL missions.
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Jan 6, 2013 00:05
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Sodomy Non Sapiens posted:So I'm completely new to the series, I'm just finishing off the Jin campaign at the moment in DW7 (and absolutely loving the game). Wu are awesome, Sun Jian is awesome and bites it way too soon. What's the difference between Dynasty Warriors 7 and Dynasty Warriors 7 Empires? Is Empires a separate game or is it an expansion pack like Extreme Legends? Empires is an expansion, but it's pretty much a separate game that drops the standard story in favor of a Risk type mode that's more political and strategically driven. And it's more focused on customization and created characters. Jibo posted:The magical land of benevolence won't permit this. Instead, Ma Dai runs to his rescue and they bro it out throughout a couple of XL missions. At least in Ma Dai's Hero mode in XL they have the courtesy to show he's up to something strange before the cutscene ends. The GIG fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jan 6, 2013 |
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Jan 6, 2013 00:12
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Sodomy Non Sapiens posted:So I'm completely new to the series, I'm just finishing off the Jin campaign at the moment in DW7 (and absolutely loving the game). Wu are awesome, Sun Jian is awesome and bites it way too soon. What's the difference between Dynasty Warriors 7 and Dynasty Warriors 7 Empires? Is Empires a separate game or is it an expansion pack like Extreme Legends? It can be considered a separate game. In the past Empires has read the save data from the main/xl game but does not need to in order to get the full benefit. Usually it just unlocks characters/scenarios early.
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Jan 6, 2013 02:44
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What's a good map for getting the 'finish a stage in under 5 minutes' achievement in Orochi 3?
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Jan 6, 2013 03:58
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Sakurazuka posted:What's a good map for getting the 'finish a stage in under 5 minutes' achievement in Orochi 3? The first map on easy mode (not the one where you fight the hydra and get butt hosed).
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Jan 6, 2013 04:03
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Sodomy Non Sapiens posted:Wu are awesome, Sun Jian is awesome and bites it way too soon. Sun Jian is great but apparently DW8 is going to have What If scenarios so I'd imagine "Sun Jian not dying" would be one of them. Really hope they do some more to differentiate the Yellow Turban Rebellion stages between forces if only to have Sun Jian's deal where he climbs the walls of Wancheng himself leading his army into the city to gently caress the Turbans up. Actually if they keep up the What If stuff for 9 I think a Han faction for a "What if He Jin wasn't assassinated" storyline would be neat. Throw in some people like He Jin, Empress He, Haungfu Song, Zhu Jun, and Wang Yun to play as and you're good to go.
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Jan 6, 2013 04:25
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Suben posted:Sun Jian is great but apparently DW8 is going to have What If scenarios so I'd imagine "Sun Jian not dying" would be one of them. Really hope they do some more to differentiate the Yellow Turban Rebellion stages between forces if only to have Sun Jian's deal where he climbs the walls of Wancheng himself leading his army into the city to gently caress the Turbans up. quote:Sun Jian: Well son, seems the men could use some help at the walls. But if we are to do this...
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Jan 6, 2013 06:13
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Sakurazuka posted:What's a good map for getting the 'finish a stage in under 5 minutes' achievement in Orochi 3? Tong Gate redux is good, too. After rescuing Diaochan you can literally walk right into the enemy main camp with no one able to stop you
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Jan 7, 2013 01:45
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Just finished off the DW7 story mode. I have to say, after having to grit my teeth and force myself through the latter part of the Shu campaign listening to Jiang Wei bitch and moan every step of the way, being able to kick him in the face and then ride him around the battlefield like a surfboard repeatedly as Sima Zhao was remarkably cathartic. What a great game. If nothing else it's made me order the novels. Haven't even touched Conquest mode yet. Can't wait for Empires.
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Jan 7, 2013 06:30
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Sodomy Non Sapiens posted:Just finished off the DW7 story mode. I have to say, after having to grit my teeth and force myself through the latter part of the Shu campaign listening to Jiang Wei bitch and moan every step of the way, being able to kick him in the face and then ride him around the battlefield like a surfboard repeatedly as Sima Zhao was remarkably cathartic.
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Jan 7, 2013 06:36
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Sakurazuka posted:What's a good map for getting the 'finish a stage in under 5 minutes' achievement in Orochi 3? You can even do it without taking damage, if you're lucky.
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Jan 7, 2013 06:49
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Suben posted:Sun Jian is great but apparently DW8 is going to have What If scenarios so I'd imagine "Sun Jian not dying" would be one of them. Really hope they do some more to differentiate the Yellow Turban Rebellion stages between forces if only to have Sun Jian's deal where he climbs the walls of Wancheng himself leading his army into the city to gently caress the Turbans up. I wouldn't be surprised if they just went back to the way the did it in the early games where they had so few people that they just kept everyone who was part of a faction alive until He Fei Castle and Wu Zhang Plains.
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Jan 7, 2013 18:50
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I just realized what the next Warriors Orochi is going to be, Warriors Zombie all of the Heroes who died come back as evil zombies with evil zombie armies.
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Jan 7, 2013 18:52
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socialsecurity posted:I just realized what the next Warriors Orochi is going to be, Warriors Zombie all of the Heroes who died come back as evil zombies with evil zombie armies. I had a brief imagining of a DW game based off of characters from Romero / Savini movies, and the Walking Dead that seems to be getting an absurd amount of hero worship amongst my FB relations. It could work.
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Jan 8, 2013 19:31
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So I've played DW7, but none of the Samurai Warriors games. How lost would I be if I gave Orochi 3 a shot?
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Jan 8, 2013 20:21
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Darth Walrus posted:So I've played DW7, but none of the Samurai Warriors games. How lost would I be if I gave Orochi 3 a shot? That's what I did, you won't be 'lost' because the story makes no sense anyway.
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Jan 8, 2013 21:30
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