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astr0man posted:West coast only West cost is best coast  But I live 20 minutes away from Fort Lewis and it is military only... what the gently caress. So I'm driving down to Portland. If anyone is there I will be in my movie accurate Stormtrooper armor 
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Dec 31, 2012 19:49
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Was supposed to be released tomorrow. Mine ought to be delivered any time now.
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Dec 31, 2012 20:55
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Metal Loaf posted:I think there were originally four. I'm going to guess that I read that in The Essential Chronology when it was first released. Executor was Darth Vader's flagship in the movies, Lusankya and Iron Fist both appear in the X-Wing books, and Guardian is only mentioned in supplementary materials. And the stupidly big Eclipse with it's own Superlaser!
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Jan 1, 2013 02:46
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Calax posted:You forgot the one from the Black Fleet. There are actually two Eclipses. 
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Jan 1, 2013 04:39
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Am I remembering my Dark Empire 2 wrong?
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Jan 1, 2013 06:02
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Calax posted:Am I remembering my Dark Empire 2 wrong? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Eclipse_II When in doubt, assume the worst.
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Jan 1, 2013 06:07
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So I've barely begun but Scoundrels is pretty drat good. I've been down on Zahn recently, I don't think any of his books since Outbound Flight have been all that good, but this is great. One thing I will say is that it kind of doesn't feel like a Zahn book - the plot is different from the usual Zahn fare, there's no Mara or Thrawn (or even mention of any Emperor's Hands and Grand Admirals) and there are a lot of EU references when Zahn usually steers clear of them. There are actually a lot of references to the Han Solo books (both Daley's and the ones currently being covered in the Let's Read thread). And flipping through it I saw there was even a KOTOR reference which is pretty jarring to read in a Zahn book. None of which is really a negative of course. As I said, best Zahn book in a long while. Definitely recommended.
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Jan 3, 2013 05:47
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Chairman Capone posted:So I've barely begun but Scoundrels is pretty drat good. I've been down on Zahn recently, I don't think any of his books since Outbound Flight have been all that good, but this is great. One thing I will say is that it kind of doesn't feel like a Zahn book - the plot is different from the usual Zahn fare, there's no Mara or Thrawn (or even mention of any Emperor's Hands and Grand Admirals) and there are a lot of EU references when Zahn usually steers clear of them. There are actually a lot of references to the Han Solo books (both Daley's and the ones currently being covered in the Let's Read thread). And flipping through it I saw there was even a KOTOR reference which is pretty jarring to read in a Zahn book. Can you expand on the EU references? (Especially the KotOR one?) I love that poo poo.
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Jan 3, 2013 10:11
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EddieDean posted:Can you expand on the EU references? (Especially the KotOR one?) I love that poo poo. I think it was just one off thing where someone says something like "maybe we should storm/assault the heavily defended target" and the response was "haha no, not unless you're Revan or Malak." But yeah I'm about halfway through Scoundrels and it's pretty great.
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Jan 3, 2013 15:27
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Metal Loaf posted:I think there were originally four. I'm going to guess that I read that in The Essential Chronology when it was first released. Executor was Darth Vader's flagship in the movies, Lusankya and Iron Fist both appear in the X-Wing books, and Guardian is only mentioned in supplementary materials. "Now don't get jittery, Luke. There are a lot of command ships. Keep your distance, though, Chewie, but don't look like you're trying to keeping your distance." EU may say 4, but the movies make Executor types much more common
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Jan 3, 2013 16:44
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Command Ship is the fancy sci-fi version of Flagship. Vader once used a simple ISD as his in IV. Han might have meant anything in that small fleet in that bit of the movie.
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Jan 3, 2013 16:46
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EddieDean posted:Can you expand on the EU references? (Especially the KotOR one?) I love that poo poo. Yeah, the KOTOR reference was just someone saying something like, "We'd have to be Revan and Malak to fight our way into there!" Valuable Rakatan artwork was also mentioned, although that might have been in the ebook prequel that came out last month (and is also worth checking out). For some reason it's particularly strange to see Zahn referencing a video game. Although his last book did namedrop Grand Admiral Zaarin from TIE Fighter. Maybe Zahn is just getting into gaming really late? As for other EU references...the main guy they're scoundreling against is a Black Sun enforcer, and Xizor gets namedropped a lot. The main planet they're on, as well as the main Imperial villain, are both from (different) WEG roleplaying sourcebooks. Ylesia is also referenced a few times, and so is the Yavin Vassilika from the comic of the same name, which I think is the first time it's actually been referenced outside the comic. Empress Teta from Tales of the Jedi also gets mentioned. Oh yeah, and Kell Tainer from the Wraith Squadron books is one of the main characters, I think the only time Zahn has actually used another author's creation as one of his central cast. Those are the big ones I can think of off the top of my head. Although there are a lot of smaller EU references also, little things like planet names and ship/droid models and the like.
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Jan 3, 2013 21:12
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Chairman Capone posted:Valuable Rakatan artwork was also mentioned, although that might have been in the ebook prequel that came out last month (and is also worth checking out). For some reason it's particularly strange to see Zahn referencing a video game. I was surprised to see a Selkath in the Clone Wars TV show. Looks like KOTOR stuff has been embraced by several other works.
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Jan 4, 2013 00:19
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Chairman Capone posted:Yeah, the KOTOR reference was just someone saying something like, "We'd have to be Revan and Malak to fight our way into there!" Valuable Rakatan artwork was also mentioned, although that might have been in the ebook prequel that came out last month (and is also worth checking out). For some reason it's particularly strange to see Zahn referencing a video game. Although his last book did namedrop Grand Admiral Zaarin from TIE Fighter. Maybe Zahn is just getting into gaming really late? Well, to be fair, Tie Fighter did use Thrawn as the counter to Zaarin ALso http://kotaku.com/5973006/princess-leia-is-now-an-x+wing-fighter-pilot Calax fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jan 4, 2013 |
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Jan 4, 2013 05:59
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I finished Scoundrels. It felt kind of fan-servicey but in a good way. Especially the Boba Fett reveal at the very end. It was definitely an enjoyable read.
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Jan 4, 2013 06:07
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Calax posted:Well, to be fair, Tie Fighter did use Thrawn as the counter to Zaarin Nope, not in my personal canon. Burn and salt the earth.
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Jan 4, 2013 11:18
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I don't really mind Leia driving an X-Wing, it's pretty harmless compared to lots of other stuff in the EU. But I always liked the idea that she was a powerful person through avenues other than the traditional action hero archetype (although she was a crack shot, and apparently a capable pilot, and eventually a Jedi).
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Jan 4, 2013 18:02
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Apparently, Palpatine is also an ace pilot, so no harm done, I suppose. Read Wookieepedia's page for Palpatine and you'll wonder how the heroes managed to last one movie, much less defeat him twice. He goes from being a tyrannical wizard who rules an evil empire to the bad guy from Bleach.
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Jan 4, 2013 18:38
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Metal Loaf posted:Apparently, Palpatine is also an ace pilot, so no harm done, I suppose. He started sampling his own stuff, hitting too much of the space pot. Should have listened to Vader about the addiction thing but too much of the whole 'good for the freaky face pain'. Sith Lords, addictive personalities I telly you.
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Jan 4, 2013 19:11
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General Battuta posted:I don't really mind Leia driving an X-Wing, it's pretty harmless compared to lots of other stuff in the EU. But I always liked the idea that she was a powerful person through avenues other than the traditional action hero archetype (although she was a crack shot, and apparently a capable pilot, and eventually a Jedi). It seems perfectly reasonable for Leia to be able to fly an X-Wing. After all, any farm kid who's ever flown a T-16 seems to be able to pick it up in no time. But according to the article, she's suddenly almost as good of a dogfighter as Luke and Wedge. That's a bit more of a stretch. I suppose she could just be using the Force or whatever, but "yes, I also know how to fly spaceships" seems a long long way from "I'm a professional starfighter pilot who personally blew up a goddamn Death Star."
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Jan 4, 2013 19:27
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Powered Descent posted:It seems perfectly reasonable for Leia to be able to fly an X-Wing. After all, any farm kid who's ever flown a T-16 seems to be able to pick it up in no time. But according to the article, she's suddenly almost as good of a dogfighter as Luke and Wedge. That's a bit more of a stretch. It's all going away in two years. Just keep reminding yourself of that  and then it starts aaaalll over again 
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Jan 5, 2013 02:22
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Powered Descent posted:It seems perfectly reasonable for Leia to be able to fly an X-Wing. After all, any farm kid who's ever flown a T-16 seems to be able to pick it up in no time. But according to the article, she's suddenly almost as good of a dogfighter as Luke and Wedge. That's a bit more of a stretch. Why is it as much a stretch? The entire reason that we accept that Luke is a great pilot despite being a kid from the backwater end of the universe is because A) He has the force and B) his father was Anakin Skywalker, the greatest pilot that Obi-Wan had ever seen Guess who else also hits A and B? Why is it okay for Luke to be a great pilot but not Leia? Luke is allowed to be a great pilot because of his genetics and Leia is his god damned twin sister who was also fighting in the Rebellion before Luke got his rear end off Tatooine. Keep in mind that this story is, according to the article, set between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. So Luke's still fresh off his first significant battle, period, even if it was a huge success for him. So what's so implausible about his twin sister who is also an expert marksman, diplomat, able to survive torture and Force Sensitive, being around the same talent level? What does he have that she doesn't besides a penis and some practice bullseying womprats? ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Jan 5, 2013 |
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Jan 5, 2013 03:38
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ImpAtom posted:What does he have that she doesn't besides a penis and some practice bullseying womprats? Thirty-six solid years of characterization as a natural pilot.  It's like if they suddenly portrayed Luke as a politician, equal in stature and ability to Leia or Mon Mothma. I mean, I guess there's no reason he COULDN'T be, but it's never really been shown as his forte. (And now watch, with my luck Luke actually was elected Space President in some piece of the EU that I skipped.)
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Jan 5, 2013 04:28
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Powered Descent posted:Thirty-six solid years of characterization as a natural pilot. Ah, but you're ignoring what I said. Luke, in the films, is portrayed as an ace pilot who takes after his father's natural skills aided by his Force Sensitivity. There is no reason you can't use the same justification for Leia. Going "Well, nobody characterized her that way before" is silly because there has been a lot of random poo poo in the EU stories, you can justify anyone as anything without trouble. Just going off the *movies* there's absolutely nothing that goes against this. If anything it makes more sense than her not being a good pilot considering they basically implied that piloting skill is both genetic and Force-gifted and Leia hits both. If we're supposed to buy that Luke is a great pilot just because his father was, why doesn't that apply to Leia?
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Jan 5, 2013 05:45
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ImpAtom posted:Ah, but you're ignoring what I said. Then why isn't she leading like, say, Gold Squadron instead of the Endor team? Why when Rogues and other pilots were fighting on Hoth, she was standing around waiting for the last boat to evacuate? No, this is a seriously loving stupid move. e: It's not like she's not a major hardass and a good fighter in the movies either--she takes an active thermal detonator and threatens to blow up Jabba's palace, she pretty calmly shoots a couple of stormtroopers right off Han's back on Endor while wounded, she takes charge of her own rescue operation right off the bat, she chokes Jabba himself to death, etc. But even given all of that, not once does she consider putting herself in a fighter cockpit in the movies. This is the same kind of stupid poo poo that came out of "hey let's get the Solo kids in some bug orgies" and "hey let's turn Jacen dark with complete disregard of context". I'm sick of this poo poo. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Jan 5, 2013 |
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Jan 5, 2013 05:51
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api call girl posted:Then why isn't she leading like, say, Gold Squadron instead of the Endor team? Why when Rogues and other pilots were fighting on Hoth, she was standing around waiting for the last boat to evacuate? You can make the exact same comment about Endor for Han and Luke. Han even gives him drat spaceship to Lando. As for Hoth, she was doing other things in the command center. api call girl posted:This is the same kind of stupid poo poo that came out of "hey let's get the Solo kids in some bug orgies" and "hey let's turn Jacen dark with complete disregard of context". No it isn't. It's in fact the exact opposite. It's something that is perfectly justifiable within the context of the story and make sense within the universe as presented. The author explained his justification and it makes perfect sense. This isn't random bug orgy poo poo, it's based entirely off character traits and logic presented in the movies and a good portion of the EU. Leia's father, brother, husband, sons and daughter are all ace pilots. Aside from Han they all show exceptional skill at extremely young ages, largely due to being Force Sensitive. (I'm pretty sure Jacen and his sister both set ridiculous records in at least one book.) Why not Leia? ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Jan 5, 2013 |
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Jan 5, 2013 06:02
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Wasn't Luke actively training as a pilot for an academy slot and even endorsed by Biggs in one of the re-added scenes? Not to mention this exchange: Han: "Yeah, but who's going to fly it, kid. You?" Luke: "I'm not such a bad pilot myself." Basically, the first movie spent some time setting up Luke as a pilot. Sure, it was his connection to the Force that made him a hero instead of another casualty against astronomical odds, but it's not like he was untrained. As far as I know, Leia was never shown to have any skills in that regard. Han was on Endor because he was the general commanding the strike. Luke volunteered because his destiny lay that way. Leia volunteered because she's already established as a capable fighter and leader on the ground and her best friends would be there.
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Jan 5, 2013 08:32
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I'm pretty sure Leia flew a Y-Wing in Splinters in the Mind's Eye.
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Jan 5, 2013 14:35
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Leia always struck me as being a better commander than Luke. So when it comes down to "get in a dinky fighter and go fight the Empire off Hoth" vs "coordinate the evacuation to maximize what resources we'll have after this debacle" she chose the useful option rather than the one that'd satisfy her bravado.
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Jan 5, 2013 15:17
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Not to mention the possibility of losing such a strong leader in a dog fight in the Rebels smaller but heavily modified piece of junk fighters it is hardly the smartest of ideas. This is a silly thing to get mad at. She more or less is everything else now in the EU so just move past it and SPACE heal folks.
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Jan 5, 2013 15:19
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ImpAtom posted:Why is it as much a stretch? She's a woman, women obviously are terrible space pilots.
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Jan 5, 2013 15:34
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Sure am tired of all these star wars..also, I think we all agree that the post-VI EU is toast when VII comes out, but what about the prequel/Old Republic EU?
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Jan 5, 2013 16:29
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Silver Brushes posted:Sure am tired of all these star wars..also, I think we all agree that the post-VI EU is toast when VII comes out, but what about the prequel/Old Republic EU? I'm loving ignoring most of that, it is more or less generic noise with a majority of it outside a few decent books and comics. It doesn't have the weirdly appealing insanity and blips of interest the post OT EU has for me.
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Jan 5, 2013 16:32
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I'm still holding out hope that the Zahn and X-Wing stuff will get passed over, but really really want Legacy and Fate to get completely destroyed. Maybe Crucible will get pulped before it ever sees a store shelf 
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Jan 5, 2013 21:45
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I was thinking about this today because I am lame, and I started to wonder: People always jokingly ask why Chewbacca doesn't get a medal at the end of A New Hope. Did Wedge or Keyan Farlander get medals? Wedge has to leave mid-battle due to damage but ends up with two Death Star kill decals in later EU stuff, and you can see the Y-Wing Farlander was retconned into fly away with Luke and the Falcon at the end of the movie.
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Jan 6, 2013 07:20
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Arschlochkind posted:I was thinking about this today because I am lame, and I started to wonder: People always jokingly ask why Chewbacca doesn't get a medal at the end of A New Hope. Did Wedge or Keyan Farlander get medals? Wedge has to leave mid-battle due to damage but ends up with two Death Star kill decals in later EU stuff, and you can see the Y-Wing Farlander was retconned into fly away with Luke and the Falcon at the end of the movie. Well, from a film making standpoint, I don't think it made sense to have two guys up on stage with your heroes, one who's a very tertiary character, the other who's an unknown. Which is why Chewie gets brought up, he's up there on the stage and had just as much a hand in the fight as Han did. In the EU I think they both got the medals. And Wedge gets the credit for the Death Star on the side of his X-wing. And if I recall Stackpoles books, he's had to go with very different paintings of the types of craft he's killed on his fighter because he's blown up so many. Three biggest ones are the Death Stars and half a SSD
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Jan 6, 2013 08:07
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Have any characters been established definitively as the best pilots without the use of the Force? I think I've read somewhere that it's Han and Wedge, but I'm not entirely sure where I read it.
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Jan 6, 2013 12:16
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Metal Loaf posted:Have any characters been established definitively as the best pilots without the use of the Force? I think I've read somewhere that it's Han and Wedge, but I'm not entirely sure where I read it. One of the Wraith Squadron books brings this up. Someone mentions that Luke Skywalker is probably a better pilot than Wedge, but since Luke retired from the military to be a full-time Jedi, he didn't rack up the kills or mission-completes that veteran pilots did. The book goes on to say that Wedge is pretty much the best pilot when you consider missions complete and survival rate.
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Jan 6, 2013 13:28
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I was going to say Maarek Stele from the TIE Fighter games, but I think he's a confirmed force-sensitive. Tycho Celchu, maybe?
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Jan 6, 2013 13:31
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It's likely either Wedge, who is as good as the plot requires (re: extremely good), or Baron Fel, but that may be more legend than reality, since we don't actually see him fly all that much, just hear about it. Gavin Darklighter should probably be on that list too. But he loses points thanks to his bizarre sexual fetishes. (That was him, right?)
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Jan 6, 2013 17:09
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