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Impaired Casing posted:In the second Horus book, where he's stabbed and dying, the A-Team of apothecaries had no idea what they were doing. I think it even goes to say that a primarch has organs that they never even heard of. So I don't think so. But on the subject of Guilliman, does it go into detail on how he died, aside from it was Fulgrim? Because maybe he is fine, and can heal from his slit throat if they let him out. Since, you know, Fulgrim's foot was burned off and then regrew. There's a comment in the Thousand Sons book, where Ahriman(?) mentions that Magnus doesn't have organs. That's he basically a great psychich force, bound inside a meat shell. It wouldn't surprise me if the Primarchs are basically Daemon hosts wherein the Emperor bound powerful warp entities.
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Jan 9, 2013 10:58
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Demiurge4 posted:There's a comment in the Thousand Sons book, where Ahriman(?) mentions that Magnus doesn't have organs. That's he basically a great psychic force, bound inside a meat shell. It wouldn't surprise me if the Primarchs are basically Daemon hosts wherein the Emperor bound powerful warp entities. That may explain why he never bothered to tell the primarchs anything.
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Jan 9, 2013 15:56
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Demiurge4 posted:There's a comment in the Thousand Sons book, where Ahriman(?) mentions that Magnus doesn't have organs. That's he basically a great psychich force, bound inside a meat shell. It wouldn't surprise me if the Primarchs are basically Daemon hosts wherein the Emperor bound powerful warp entities. On the other hand when Curze was beat up, the Night Lords tried healing him but their apothecaries noted he had organs they have never seen before.
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Jan 9, 2013 16:28
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Scoobi posted:On the other hand when Curze was beat up, the Night Lords tried healing him but their apothecaries noted he had organs they have never seen before. Everything is hosed up in 40k. Although it makes me wonder if none of the primarchs ran an anatomy check on themselves to understand how they were built. It would make sense for some of the more practically minded ones, but in all the books every apothecary just goes "oh poo poo what do we do? Call the Emperor!" because nobody ever imagined their Primarch could so much as break a bone.
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Jan 9, 2013 16:36
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Demiurge4 posted:Everything is hosed up in 40k. Although it makes me wonder if none of the primarchs ran an anatomy check on themselves to understand how they were built. It would make sense for some of the more practically minded ones, but in all the books every apothecary just goes "oh poo poo what do we do? Call the Emperor!" because nobody ever imagined their Primarch could so much as break a bone. Pffft, if the Emperor is powerful enough to bind daemons or other massive psychic forces into a crunchy primarch shell, surely he can remotely influence their self-diagnostics to appear as if they were generally of similar type as the Astartes. Retcon complete, next plot hole?
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Jan 9, 2013 16:54
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Just assume that the Emperor doesn't tell people because he doesn't want them trying to copy his work. That or go Sauron/Voldemort on it and call them fragments of his essence or whatever.
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Jan 9, 2013 16:57
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So I don't want to go through 47 pages of comments to see if you have covered the Soul Drinkers yet, so here it goes. What do you guys think of these books and in general the Soul Drinkers place in the 40k universe? As for my opinion, I really have some mixed emotions about these guys (as I'm sure everybody did) but ultimately I wanted them to succeed in their quest.
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Jan 9, 2013 16:57
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Each book is worse than the last, and it galls me the ineptitutde with which they were written that a 2nd founding chapter wouldn't be able to identify corruption within themselves until a loving greater daemon itself showed up to ask them if growing spider legs didn't tip them off enough.
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Jan 9, 2013 17:17
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Nephilm posted:Each book is worse than the last, and it galls me the ineptitutde with which they were written that a 2nd founding chapter wouldn't be able to identify corruption within themselves until a loving greater daemon itself showed up to ask them if growing spider legs didn't tip them off enough. On the plus side I went and looked up the wiki and they all die with the hero characters disappearing never to be heard from again.
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Jan 9, 2013 17:19
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Nephilm posted:Each book is worse than the last, and it galls me the ineptitutde with which they were written that a 2nd founding chapter wouldn't be able to identify corruption within themselves until a loving greater daemon itself showed up to ask them if growing spider legs didn't tip them off enough. Those are pretty much my thoughts on the mutations. No inner dialogue among the chapter to say "Hey guys, I grew a claw on my penis. Is this ok?".
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Jan 9, 2013 17:52
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VanSandman posted:Thanks for reminding me. I wouldn't say failure equals death. You think Angron wanted anything to do with that staircase? At best he probably would only attempt it if he got to attack the Emperor at the end. Demiurge4 posted:Everything is hosed up in 40k. Although it makes me wonder if none of the primarchs ran an anatomy check on themselves to understand how they were built. So yeah, maybe the Primarchs are more than (albeit heavily modified) flesh and blood.
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Jan 9, 2013 18:10
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berzerkmonkey posted:I don't know - it kind of seemed like it was implied that if you didn't make it, you didn't get to go on the Great Crusade. I could be reading into it though. I haven't read Angel Exterminatus yet, but it would imply that the primarchs arrived on their planets as blank slates, or a force of energy in Fulgrims case, and then immediately absorbed physical traits to match the population. For example, Conrad Curze has the same black eyes as the natives of his planet.
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Jan 9, 2013 18:29
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Socal Sapper posted:Those are pretty much my thoughts on the mutations. No inner dialogue among the chapter to say "Hey guys, I grew a claw on my penis. Is this ok?". Sarpedon: It's the Imperium's fault. They put your penis up to this. Just think wholesome thoughts and you'll be fine.
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Jan 9, 2013 18:30
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Impaired Casing posted:Also, I am almost done with that Ahriman: Exile book. Or whatever it is titled. Talk about a man with a guilty conscience. Is it any good?
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Jan 10, 2013 00:27
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berzerkmonkey posted:I don't know - it kind of seemed like it was implied that if you didn't make it, you didn't get to go on the Great Crusade. I could be reading into it though.
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Jan 10, 2013 01:15
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Schneider Heim posted:Is it any good? I finished it earlier, and I enjoyed it. The cast of characters is small, but are fleshed out well enough. What I liked best about it was the portrayal of Ahriman himself. It starts with him already in exile, pretending to be anyone but Ahriman, hiding among random bands of sorcerers and renegades. He feels, basically, like crap for what he did to the Thousand Suns, and it shows. It's not mind blowing with any revelations in it, and I don't wish to spoil who shows up in it, but I am not sure if they are big names in WH40k or just some random characters that show up, but I still found it very cool. Plus, the flash back to when he cast the Rubic spell was really short, but really, really sweet. I'd recommend it, especially if you enjoyed the HH novel Thousand Suns, since it's a continuation of that adaptation of Ahriman, rather than what the Lexicanum wikia describes him as. Edit: I should add that I have no idea when the book takes place. Obviously time is fluid in the Eye of Terror, where it takes place, but Ahriman meets an Inquisitor at one point and has no idea what the Inquisition is. He does, however, say he doubts any of the Imperium remembers his name, so it's a bit iffy when it takes place. Double Edit: Quick question, is that very old book "Space Marine" any good, or is it too dated? I liked the Inquisition War by the same guy, even though it was a little weird. Impaired Casing fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Jan 10, 2013 |
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Jan 10, 2013 04:26
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Impaired Casing posted:
The Space Marine novel is rad as hell, very homoerotic, full of crazy poo poo and probably nails the alien-ness of the marines better than anything I've ever read. If I remember correctly, there's a scene when the main character strips his arm to the bone to do some idle scrimshaw.
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Jan 10, 2013 13:42
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Impaired Casing posted:I finished it earlier, and I enjoyed it. The cast of characters is small, but are fleshed out well enough. What I liked best about it was the portrayal of Ahriman himself. It starts with him already in exile, pretending to be anyone but Ahriman, hiding among random bands of sorcerers and renegades. He feels, basically, like crap for what he did to the Thousand Suns, and it shows. It's not mind blowing with any revelations in it, and I don't wish to spoil who shows up in it, but I am not sure if they are big names in WH40k or just some random characters that show up, but I still found it very cool. Ah, that's good to hear. I'll get it as soon as I finish up with my current load.
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Jan 10, 2013 14:05
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Oh man, Know no Fear. Abnett does not dissapoint. 
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Jan 10, 2013 14:32
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My favorite passage in Know No Fear is Erebus summoning daemons, who are a lot and are named rather creatively. And Torgaddon, or at least his headless corpse, is one of them. I'd reach for it if I could but I've lent it to a friend, who probably hasn't finished it yet. Argh.
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Jan 10, 2013 15:44
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Schneider Heim posted:My favorite passage in Know No Fear is Erebus summoning daemons, who are a lot and are named rather creatively. And Torgaddon, or at least his headless corpse, is one of them. I'd reach for it if I could but I've lent it to a friend, who probably hasn't finished it yet. Argh. If there's one thing that genuinely bugs me about the Horus Heresy series, it's that Erebus is going to get away with his dickery completely. I want somebody to wreck his poo poo in the worst way, since the Heresy is basically his fault. Edit: I'm pretty sure there are no Ork novels, but are there any short stories from the perspective of an Ork, or with Ork protagonists? All I know of that feature Orks as the protagonists is that awesome Deff Skwadron comic. VanSandman fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Jan 10, 2013 |
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Jan 10, 2013 16:57
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VanSandman posted:Edit: I'm pretty sure there are no Ork novels, but are there any short stories from the perspective of an Ork, or with Ork protagonists? All I know of that feature Orks as the protagonists is that awesome Deff Skwadron comic. There was one in Fear the Alien, though I can't remember the title. It's about some kommandos who attack an Imperial installation. It wasn't bad, if I remember correctly. Other than that, there isn't much out there from the Ork perspective, unless you can get your hands on the old 40K fluff books like Waaaagh - the Orks! or Freebootaz. GW stated some time ago that they weren't going to do stories from and Ork or Tyranid perspective, because their mindsets are too "alien." Personally, I think it was that the Orks were becoming comic relief with the cockney accents, and GW wanted to make them more brutal.
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Jan 10, 2013 17:51
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VanSandman posted:If there's one thing that genuinely bugs me about the Horus Heresy series, it's that Erebus is going to get away with his dickery completely. I want somebody to wreck his poo poo in the worst way, since the Heresy is basically his fault. And I have to say that No Know Fear is probably the best book in the series, not just for quality of writing, but for the sort of feeling it sells. With Horus Rising we just start right off the bat with the focus on the Luna Wolves and them already being three quarters of the way to Chaos. The build up to Horus is minimal, and everyone else is just a cameo. You are expected to know what has gone on before and roll with it. And it makes sense, this is the Horus Heresy series, you need to get to the Heresy quick. But Know No Fear does an important bit, with the first third of the book or so focused instead on the Imperium. We see that they are actually building something great and prosperous and peaceful. The people are happy. You get a real feel for what the Emperor's dream was. That's what gives the betrayal and it all going to hell so much punch. You need hope to really see despair, serenity to feel the chaos. The original 3 books, well angry guys fighting their enemies start fighting different enemies. It doesn't sell the tragedy of what was happening. We see Gulliman before the war, in all his glory, and after the attack, filled with wrath and rage. Horus was always wrath rage and pride, we never saw him as the best of the primarchs, we are just told he was. We need some like flashback books to characterize out the primarchs and the Imperium prior to the fall more. Know No Fear does it well, and between First Heretic and Betrayer it did a good job of fleshing out Lorgar and Angron and their fall. Prince of Crows kinda did it with Cruze, I'd like more though. I am hoping that Unremembered Empire and Master of Mankind will do the same. Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Jan 10, 2013 |
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Jan 10, 2013 19:08
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VanSandman posted:Edit: I'm pretty sure there are no Ork novels, but are there any short stories from the perspective of an Ork, or with Ork protagonists? All I know of that feature Orks as the protagonists is that awesome Deff Skwadron comic. There was a CYOA on here that was pretty great, written completely from the Ork perspective.
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Jan 10, 2013 19:24
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Fried Chicken posted:... Read Betrayer. He gets awaaaaay Keeping the brutality of the Orks is easy. Just have them go after the chaos marines or Dark Eldar, or hell even Tau, and show off their brutal cunnin' as they rip whole limbs off and beat their enemies to death with them. Basically when not in a fight Orks are funny. In a fight they are  as hell. It's that contrast that makes them interesting.
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Jan 10, 2013 19:48
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Fried Chicken posted:... Read Betrayer. Yeah definitely agree with all you've said. When I read the Horus Heresy books I'm really not that interested in "badass space battles" as much as I am in the Primarchs and their relationships with other Primarchs and legions.
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Jan 10, 2013 20:31
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SquadronROE posted:There was a CYOA on here that was pretty great, written completely from the Ork perspective. You have a link to that?
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Jan 10, 2013 22:06
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SquadronROE posted:There was a CYOA on here that was pretty great, written completely from the Ork perspective. I already read that. There's a lot of quality Ork fanfiction, and it's a shame the Black Library is somehow to scared to write an Ork book. The whole point of the 40k universe is the hilarious brutality of the far future. Orks are both hilariously brutal and brutally hilarious. They are the most 40k thing in 40k. Here's the story: It's AWESOME Being Green: An Ork CYOA Featuring Aristorkrates, and his quest to figure out which is bettah: Brutal cunnin' or cunnin' brutality. Through much repeated application of both. VanSandman fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Jan 11, 2013 |
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Jan 11, 2013 02:51
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VanSandman posted:Edit: I'm pretty sure there are no Ork novels, but are there any short stories from the perspective of an Ork, or with Ork protagonists? All I know of that feature Orks as the protagonists is that awesome Deff Skwadron comic.
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Jan 11, 2013 14:02
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lenoon posted:The Space Marine novel is rad as hell, very homoerotic, full of crazy poo poo and probably nails the alien-ness of the marines better than anything I've ever read. If I remember correctly, there's a scene when the main character strips his arm to the bone to do some idle scrimshaw. You weren't kidding. I'm half way done with it, and it is unlike any other WH40k novel I've read, save for Inquisition War by the same author. I have no clue what you call the narrative style it uses, but it is like how Charles Dickens wrote, asking the reader questions, going on asides, using analogies in the most bizarre way. Plus the Marines are so... Well, alien, like you said. Having read Space Wolf not too long ago, it is like night and day. There is zero ways to relate to the marines in this book. Everything is just so... Off. And it is fantastic. Plus it has squats.
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Jan 12, 2013 18:34
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And I finished Know no Fear. Best Horus Heresy book right there. Are they retconning Ollanius Pious back into existance? I mean, yeah, he's isn't exactly human anymore, but still. And every time Abnett does some kind of callback to previous books, or explains why something is so and so in the current timeline (like the red Sergeant helmets) my inner nerd smiles.
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Jan 13, 2013 00:54
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It does pain me that the first Ultramarine novel of the HH series was so great when DA and other cooler legions get lumped with lovely authors.
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Jan 13, 2013 01:01
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Big Willy Style posted:It does pain me that the first Ultramarine novel of the HH series was so great when DA and other cooler legions get lumped with lovely authors. Look at it this way - the Ultramarines needed the most help to become cool
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Jan 13, 2013 01:03
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Azran posted:And I finished Know no Fear. Best Horus Heresy book right there. Are they retconning Ollanius Pious back into existance? I mean, yeah, he's isn't exactly human anymore, but still. If you've also done The First Heretic (and Aurelian), it's time for Betrayer.
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Jan 13, 2013 01:23
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The entire plot of Pariah is Eisenhorn v Ravenor. So I don't understand people's complaints that there is not enough of that. Admittedly it takes a bit to figure out that is what is happening. Also a question: what the hell was the City of Dust?
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Jan 13, 2013 02:23
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I just finished reading The Siege of Castellax, it was alright. I kinda feel blueballed because what could have been the best part of the story doesn't end up happping at all and only given a single sentence later in the book.That is the Iron Warriors having possession of a comatose alpha-level pysker that even they're afraid to risk waking up. The author really dropped the ball on this. It also seemed Werner doen't really know how long a kilometer is. Two examples: An Obliterator single-handedly defending a 3km stretch of wall during a massive WAAAAGH!!!! and a space marine picking people off with a bolt pistol at 2.5km. Maybe they can do that, I dunno. How is Gildars Rift?
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Jan 13, 2013 02:34
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Nephilm posted:If you've also done The First Heretic (and Aurelian), it's time for Betrayer. Haven't read either of those either.  Got two ASOIAF books and A Thousand Sons to read first. Then I'll get The First Heretic and The Emperor's Gift.Big Willy Style posted:It does pain me that the first Ultramarine novel of the HH series was so great when DA and other cooler legions get lumped with lovely authors. Wait, the first?  What about the abomination known as Battle for the Abyss? 
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Jan 13, 2013 02:56
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Ego-bot posted:How is Gildars Rift? Terrible. Silver Skulls are unremarkable and Huron is a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain.
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Jan 13, 2013 05:45
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Azran posted:Wait, the first? We don't talk about that. Also, Know No Fear is kind of a sequel to The First Heretic (and Aurelian), but it isn't that connected to be too detrimental; Betrayer is a direct sequel to both TFH and KNF, however, so you definitely should read The First Heretic beforehand.
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Jan 13, 2013 05:46
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Azran posted:
It never existed I don't know much about the lore but in the time line of the Heresy it feels way to out of place. World Bearers beginning the assualt on Ultramar, and the Ultramarine ship has a Space Wolf, a World Eater, and a Thousand Son on board? Pretty sure Prospero happened before the first salvo was fired so the son of Russ would have eaten the thousand son on principle. No matter how many oath of moments he swore to Terra after the fact. Hell was there even any loyal thousands sons after Prospero? I know Garro was a loyal Death Guard and there are a few Luna Wolves, but there has been no hint on any of the other legions having a few go rogue and remain loyal.
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