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Arcturas posted:I did finally get explosive shells, so I'll give it another go, but I find I can't keep more than 2-3 of my ships in range of theirs, while they do a much better job kiting and keeping all their ships firing constantly. FotS naval AI isn't much good, so try arranging your entire fleet in line, and then sailing off at an angle to the side of the enemy formation. When you get close enough that you can begin firing and the enemy starts to push in towards you, they'll just go at you one by one, giving you fire superiority. That said, the best way to handle naval battles is to get some manner of European ship or other, because they have far superior range and can blow up ships from a distance while giggling like maniacs.
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Jan 9, 2013 22:07
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Electric Pope posted:Is it normal for everyone to hate you and invade you constantly as Ikko Ikki or am I just doing an unusually bad job diplomatically? Not that I'm complaining, it means I'm fighting for something besides my own imperialism, and can feel bad for my men without being a hypocrite. Also means that after taking 2 provinces, bringing my total to 4, Oda and Takeda, probably the two most powerful clans on the mainland at the moment, both declared war on me and now I'm pretty much just fighting for survival. Yep. The relations penalty rating for Ikko Ikki is either -40 or -80 right off the bat for being a different religion. Add that to the negative relations rating expanding your territory gets you means that unless you can arrange a few strategic marriages or alliances it'll probably be you against the world. brozozo posted:I'm on my first Shogun 2 campaign, and I'm a little unclear on realm divide. Does it only apply to you, or will the Shogunate come down hard on AI clans as well? 'Cause there's a western clan with about 15 provinces, and I wouldn't mind seeing them taken down a peg. The shogun doesn't mind if another clan comes to murder him and take kyoto just because he hates you that much. He lets it happen out of spite.
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Jan 9, 2013 22:07
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Doctor Reynolds posted:So I'm playing as England in Medieval 2. I own the entire island, and am working on France. I haven't even "met" Portugal, yet out of the blue they land an army of A Peasant on the shores of Caernarvon and declare war on me. Are you playing vanilla M2TW? Stainless Steel comes with a couple different AIs that you can choose from, at least two of which will make the computer behave a bit more rationally when it comes to diplomacy/declaring war. Countries will actually honor alliances and not be complete spazzes about attacking everything in sight.
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Jan 9, 2013 22:25
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Spakstik posted:Are you playing vanilla M2TW? Stainless Steel comes with a couple different AIs that you can choose from, at least two of which will make the computer behave a bit more rationally when it comes to diplomacy/declaring war. Countries will actually honor alliances and not be complete spazzes about attacking everything in sight. I played Stainless Steel for a bit. I really liked it, but eventually stopped playing it. The 4 year wait between turns was just too much for me.
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Jan 9, 2013 22:33
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Does anyone have a link/torrent for the latest full Stainless Steel release that isn't long dead/has a poo poo downspeed, I'd like to give it a shot but it's a pain finding it.
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Jan 9, 2013 23:12
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Captain Diarrhoea posted:Does anyone have a link/torrent for the latest full Stainless Steel release that isn't long dead/has a poo poo downspeed, I'd like to give it a shot but it's a pain finding it. Did you check the thread on twcenter? Last time I redownloaded Stainless Steel was less than a month ago, and I don't remember having any problems finding a good link. Make sure to get 6.3 and then the 6.4 update. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=417435 Doctor Reynolds posted:I played Stainless Steel for a bit. I really liked it, but eventually stopped playing it. The 4 year wait between turns was just too much for me. Play a campaign of Empire first and then try Stainless Steel. Your turn times will suddenly seem a lot more manageable!
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Jan 10, 2013 10:41
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Invest in big history books the games era to cope with the load times, or put on a DVD. My advice.
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Jan 10, 2013 12:41
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Also: listen to The History of Rome Podcast. It owns, hard.
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Jan 10, 2013 20:39
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I'm trying very hard and radious' mod both for the first time, and this happened. I'd also managed to wipe two stacks in the turn before they attacked me. Is this something I should be expecting from now on? I'd never seen more than 3 AI stacks together even in the late game, and this is only a couple of years in. Suffice it to say I lost that battle, although I did manage to kill off enough of them that my province remained safe.
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Jan 11, 2013 01:25
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Very hard gives the AI virtually unlimited money and additional recruitment slots, so yeah this is pretty normal. I'd never try to play anything but hard seriously.
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Jan 11, 2013 01:27
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Wasn't there a mod or patch for Shogun 2 that dramatically reduced the odds of a clan randomly declaring war on you from halfway across the map? I automatically DOW and kill any fleet that has soldiers on it now, because they are always meant for me. They're not difficult to deal with from a tactical perspective even if they manage to land and take a few undefended provinces. But they are a massive waste of time, not to mention a huge pain in the rear end.
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Jan 11, 2013 02:20
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The billion-stacks thing happens in vanilla too but I suspect Radious(or rather: "Radious !!!!") makes that issue even worse. At least they aren't made up of 80% artillery, 20% katana samurai.
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Jan 11, 2013 03:45
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Good lord, why are the guys behind Total War so utterly terrible at implementing diplomacy? I just had to watch one of my vassal factions in FOTS get wiped out because the invading faction was an ally of mine and at war with the vassal before it became my vassal. I mean, I know it's supposed to be total war all the time, but an option to broker peace between other factions would solve so many diplomatic clusterfucks.
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Jan 11, 2013 08:20
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Eh, to me, diplomacy has never worked and I never bother with it. Everyone's gonna hate me and that's fine forever. I consider diplomacy just to be a source of early game koku that runs out midgame. Hopefully by then you have complete control of the seas and at least one of the gold mine provinces with two high level metsuke, a fully developed gold mine, and a kabunakama/merchant guild. Iga down south in the hojo lands is probably the best place in the game. It's super awkward to attack, generates a gently caress ton of gold on its own (I think I got it to be +9k or so in my last game) and its neighboring provinces have a philosophical tradition which you can set up to make rank 3 metsuke super early (2 in administrator or whatever the +town skill is, then only one in the rank 3 army prerequisite. Hold a talent point out, then 3 in censor when you it flips to rank 4. The neighboring land to the east has the blacksmith which you can abuse to make incredibly powerful yari ashigaru. +4 attack is amazing on the cheapest unit in the game. You can make them more powerful than the base samurai equivalent, and you don't even need to build additional buildings. You can double the power of the cheapest most plentiful, least upkeep costing unit in the game from this alone and a couple of spear research plots.
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Jan 11, 2013 09:10
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Gobblecoque posted:Good lord, why are the guys behind Total War so utterly terrible at implementing diplomacy? I just had to watch one of my vassal factions in FOTS get wiped out because the invading faction was an ally of mine and at war with the vassal before it became my vassal. I mean, I know it's supposed to be total war all the time, but an option to broker peace between other factions would solve so many diplomatic clusterfucks. As Imperial, I vassalized a civ in FOTS who was Shogunate. He rebelled the next turn. I keep kicking his rear end and vassalizing him and I get mad dishonor from attacking vassals.
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Jan 11, 2013 09:52
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skooma512 posted:As Imperial, I vassalized a civ in FOTS who was Shogunate. FOTS is pretty terrible in that whenever you create a new vassal, the clan is aligned with whatever faction it was aligned with before it went under, which means that if the new clan happens to be on the other side, whoops, they're rebelling! Why the hell does the game not allow you to force new vassals to be part of your side? Relatedly, in vanilla and FOTS alike, I would dearly appreciate it if CA were to make the AI treat "Attacking my vassals" to be equivalent to "attacking me." Too many times I've been forced to choose between my ally and my vassal.
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Jan 11, 2013 11:13
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I strongly suggest against vassalizing anyone in Fots, ever. Doing that is like tying a retarded baby anchor around your ankles, eventually they will spaz out and drag you into something ridiculous.
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Jan 11, 2013 11:51
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Doctor Reynolds posted:So I'm playing as England in Medieval 2. I own the entire island, and am working on France. I haven't even "met" Portugal, yet out of the blue they land an army of A Peasant on the shores of Caernarvon and declare war on me. There are some things that can be done within Medieval 2's diplomacy system. Namely, bribery. If you want to avoid a war with a faction, park a diplomat in their territory and offer them a gift of 100 coins every turn. For some reason, the computer does not value a 'gold per turn' -type of deal as much as that singular donation. The small cash boost should help you even in forming alliances. Note that you only have to do this to factions that border you or are across the sea from you, and if you're Catholic, the pope. Of course, the diplomacy system is still very hard to read. I was doing the above donation campaign to the pope in my game as Spain, and enjoyed very good relations with the Vatican, even getting my own clergymen elected. Then my relations began to drop, all the way down to very low (I still didn't get excommunicated, probably because of the bribes). Poking around the forums provided the answer: I had made a trade agreement with the pope, but didn't have a land connection, and the pope hadn't upgraded his fishing village into a proper port that could receive ships. That meant that the computer was getting angry with me because I wasn't fulfilling our trade obligations  Another non-obvious thing that came to my mind while writing: putting your merchants into unit stacks above tradeable resources will enable them to continue trading, but will prevent rival merchants from seizing their assets, because they can't interact with military units. Handy for earning pocket change for the bribes!
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Jan 11, 2013 13:32
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Tomn posted:FOTS is pretty terrible in that whenever you create a new vassal, the clan is aligned with whatever faction it was aligned with before it went under, which means that if the new clan happens to be on the other side, whoops, they're rebelling! Why the hell does the game not allow you to force new vassals to be part of your side? Are you sure about this? I recently played a FOTS game starting as whoever it was on the very west tip of the map. When I vassalized each of the two tiny islands up there, they switched to the shogunate side from the imperial side, allied with me, and vassalized. Granted, that was before realm divide, so things might be different afterwards.
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Jan 11, 2013 17:59
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^^^ It's possible that this happened after realm divide, yeah. I do know for a fact that if you go Republican, any attempt to create a vassal results in war the very next turn because they're imperial/shogunate and not Republican. Pretty sure it still applies for the Imperial/Shogunates post-divide, though. Promontory posted:There are some things that can be done within Medieval 2's diplomacy system. Namely, bribery. If you want to avoid a war with a faction, park a diplomat in their territory and offer them a gift of 100 coins every turn. For some reason, the computer does not value a 'gold per turn' -type of deal as much as that singular donation. The small cash boost should help you even in forming alliances. I find that a huge part of M2's diplomacy lies in your honor rating. High honor, they'll fall all over themselves to give you stuff and even agree to vassalage sometimes. Low honor, and they'll never, ever, ever consider peace, not even if you have their capital surrounded with five full stacks and are offering them their entire kingdom back. Honor is ruled by a lot of things, but the most important (and repeatable) bits are how you handle prisoners and captured cities. Occupying and releasing is good for honor, while sacking and executing is bad for honor. Also, alliances add to honor, while active wars decrease it (note - I'm pretty sure conquered nations count as being in an "active war" against you. You can wipe off the dishonor of being at war with them if you make peace with one of their allies before they went under, though - for some reason that'll trigger a peace treaty with the conquered nation as well.) That said, however good you are with diplomacy, I think the AI is hard-coded to declare war on you if you've been at peace for too long, which is why occasionally you get long-term, staunch allies stabbing you in the back out of nowhere. Something like 20 turns of peace, I think. Also, cheesy but effective diplomatic tactic - make an alliance with the Pope ASAP when the game begins. He'll generally be willing to accept for cheap terms, and once he does, he'll like you more and dislike your enemies more over time. If you're not willing to game the system that much, though, one other thing to do is to round like up eight or nine priests, stick them all on a boat, and ship them out to the nearest heathen province. The successful mass conversion of provinces usually gives enough piety for them to become cardinals, which eventually allows you to pack the Curia with your candidates. Tomn fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Jan 11, 2013 |
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Jan 11, 2013 17:59
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Its pretty ironic that your priests need loads of piety to enter the curia
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Jan 11, 2013 19:14
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In FOTS (or Shogun 2 in general, although I only have FOTS), what is the benefit of making someone a vassal as opposed to conquering them outright? Recent posts make it sound like a potential pain in the butt, and from reading this thread it sounds like there's a decent chance they'll knife you in the back during the realm divide if you opt for a particular path.
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Jan 11, 2013 22:05
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Spakstik posted:In FOTS (or Shogun 2 in general, although I only have FOTS), what is the benefit of making someone a vassal as opposed to conquering them outright? Recent posts make it sound like a potential pain in the butt, and from reading this thread it sounds like there's a decent chance they'll knife you in the back during the realm divide if you opt for a particular path. Your map will be nice and colourful.
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Jan 11, 2013 22:12
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Spakstik posted:In FOTS (or Shogun 2 in general, although I only have FOTS), what is the benefit of making someone a vassal as opposed to conquering them outright? Recent posts make it sound like a potential pain in the butt, and from reading this thread it sounds like there's a decent chance they'll knife you in the back during the realm divide if you opt for a particular path. In vanilla, it's absolutely essential, since vassals are your only guaranteed trade partners after realm divide, and trade brings in a whole mess of cash. In Fall of the Samurai, it's a decent way of palming off crappy provinces which would probably have ended up being a net drag on your expenses due to garrisons and such. Funnily enough, it's generally more worthwhile to create vassals post-divide in vanilla, while it's generally better to make vassals pre-divide in FOTS.
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Jan 11, 2013 22:51
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Vassals also give your Daimyo honor - you get +1 per vassal, up to a +3 limit. Honor isn't super critical, but it's handy to have.
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Jan 12, 2013 02:46
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Is it possible to make Vassals actually commit troops to wars? I have 2 Vassals that are completely worthless with 3 stacks of troops that mill around their main province doing jack poo poo.
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Jan 12, 2013 02:59
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Man playing as the "easy" Shimazu is so much harder than I expected. Within 2 years everyone I've met has declared war on me and as a result I have no trade partners and no money. I rushed the trading outposts as soon as possible but as soon as I had my 5 ships total the enemy had several 2-3 sized fleets waiting to attack me, which was pretty frustrating. The AI also has several stacks of units, which I feel like it's not possible to have given how few economic development tools you have this early in the game. Either way, I'm loving this game so much. I do sort of wish naval battles weren't such a chore early on, but its almost worth it to hear that ridiculous "Prepare to repel the boarders!" which always always sounds like "Boners" to me. EDIT: Do you actually make more money off a vassal city than you do by just owning it? Because that doesn't really make any sense.
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Jan 12, 2013 03:00
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Brownie posted:Man playing as the "easy" Shimazu is so much harder than I expected. Within 2 years everyone I've met has declared war on me and as a result I have no trade partners and no money. I rushed the trading outposts as soon as possible but as soon as I had my 5 ships total the enemy had several 2-3 sized fleets waiting to attack me, which was pretty frustrating. The AI also has several stacks of units, which I feel like it's not possible to have given how few economic development tools you have this early in the game. It gets better; the Shimazu have one of the hardest starts in the game but after you take all of Kyushu it's a cakewalk. And no, but keep in mind that occupying and developing provinces is extremely expensive, so for the less worthwhile ones it can often be a good idea to just vassalize them and not have to deal with either of those problems.
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Jan 12, 2013 03:52
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Brownie posted:EDIT: Do you actually make more money off a vassal city than you do by just owning it? Because that doesn't really make any sense.
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Jan 12, 2013 05:59
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Bolow posted:Is it possible to make Vassals actually commit troops to wars? I have 2 Vassals that are completely worthless with 3 stacks of troops that mill around their main province doing jack poo poo. I've seen vassals be useful but it seems like they only attack provinces they have a land connection with. I've actually seen one bring up a stack next to a city of mine that was about to be attacked by four stacks at once. They were probably just on their way to another city and happened to stop there but it still helped a ton. Scalding Coffee posted:Remember that AI civs in these sorts of games generally get an invisible boost in cash each turn or else they would eventually disband every unit they made. That's true on very hard and legendary but I think the AI still has to deal with cash on hard and below. Not 100% sure but I know their upkeep costs are higher on easy so I don't so why they'd even bother coding that in if they got unlimited free money. Brownie posted:Do you actually make more money off a vassal city than you do by just owning it? Because that doesn't really make any sense. Most of the time it doesn't. In the early and mid game taking any town is going to boost your overall income. But if you start to get too many provinces your administration costs start to add up and administration cost takes a percentage out of your taxes in every city. So if you're near the end and have really developed towns and take another really low income one you might be hurting your overall income. Releasing a vassal also means you've got someone else to trade with, which is the only option if you want to trade after realm divide. Your trade goods make a lot more when sold to a clan instead of just taking the "income from unsold goods" you get.
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Jan 12, 2013 07:31
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I believe the AI will snatch up provinces nearby if they are undefended. I had a vassal around the Mori starting region that managed to grow to 3 or 4 provinces... before getting swamped by doomstacks, sadly.
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Jan 12, 2013 07:34
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Trujillo posted:That's true on very hard and legendary but I think the AI still has to deal with cash on hard and below. Not 100% sure but I know their upkeep costs are higher on easy so I don't so why they'd even bother coding that in if they got unlimited free money.
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Jan 12, 2013 07:55
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Trujillo posted:I've seen vassals be useful but it seems like they only attack provinces they have a land connection with. I've actually seen one bring up a stack next to a city of mine that was about to be attacked by four stacks at once. They were probably just on their way to another city and happened to stop there but it still helped a ton. When playing as Satsuma, I saw my vassal launch a naval invasion once. They captured the city, then immediately declared war on me and launched a second naval invasion 
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Jan 12, 2013 10:45
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Man Rome 2 needs to come out. RTR will not work at all for me and EB crashes constantly. gently caress. I just wanted to play with phalanxes.
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Jan 12, 2013 13:08
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Bolow posted:Is it possible to make Vassals actually commit troops to wars? I have 2 Vassals that are completely worthless with 3 stacks of troops that mill around their main province doing jack poo poo. I've actually won at least one game because my vassals went out and conquered the last few provinces for me. They generally need to be adjacent to enemy provinces, though, as Trujillo mentioned earlier. Brownie posted:Man playing as the "easy" Shimazu is so much harder than I expected. Within 2 years everyone I've met has declared war on me and as a result I have no trade partners and no money. I rushed the trading outposts as soon as possible but as soon as I had my 5 ships total the enemy had several 2-3 sized fleets waiting to attack me, which was pretty frustrating. The AI also has several stacks of units, which I feel like it's not possible to have given how few economic development tools you have this early in the game. Try mousing over your relations with the nations at war with you to see WHY they declared war. Could provide good pointers for what not to do next time. That being said, when you just start the game you're better off focusing on conquering the hell out of your neighbors to build up a decent powerbase. Once you've got 3-5 provinces and the taxes from them, then you can start thinking about peace and proper economic development. As the Shimazu in particular, you probably just wanna blitz the hell out of your home island and begin working on your economy proper only once you've secured it all. That said, sending lone cheap ships to hog as many trade nodes as you can early on is a good thing - even if you lose some, by the time you've conquered your power base you'll probably have enough secured nodes that you can really start sending ships in to rake in the cash. Also, once you're settled, try sending lone ships along the Japanese coastlines to find new clans and thus new trade partners.
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Jan 12, 2013 13:26
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Grand Fromage posted:Man Rome 2 needs to come out. RTR will not work at all for me and EB crashes constantly. gently caress. I just wanted to play with phalanxes. It'll be worth it with the delay when you can face an AI that can at least pull off basic defensive manuvering (ONE CAN HOPE PLEASE GOD)
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Jan 12, 2013 13:48
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What if its like Empires release AI where everyone just runs back and forth in a giant line, CHANGE PLACES! 
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Jan 12, 2013 13:57
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Rabhadh posted:What if its like Empires release AI where everyone just runs back and forth in a giant line, CHANGE PLACES! I'll punch myself in my stupid loving face for falling for it for the 4th time like an idiot.
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Jan 12, 2013 14:12
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Tomn posted:Try mousing over your relations with the nations at war with you to see WHY they declared war. Could provide good pointers for what not to do next time. That being said, when you just start the game you're better off focusing on conquering the hell out of your neighbors to build up a decent powerbase. Once you've got 3-5 provinces and the taxes from them, then you can start thinking about peace and proper economic development. As the Shimazu in particular, you probably just wanna blitz the hell out of your home island and begin working on your economy proper only once you've secured it all. That said, sending lone cheap ships to hog as many trade nodes as you can early on is a good thing - even if you lose some, by the time you've conquered your power base you'll probably have enough secured nodes that you can really start sending ships in to rake in the cash. Also, once you're settled, try sending lone ships along the Japanese coastlines to find new clans and thus new trade partners. Well the diplomacy screen only said one thing, that I was a different religion than them (it was the Shoni and the Otomo, both of which are christian early on), but I'm actually pretty sure it was because I had the trade points (the first thing both clans did was attack the trade ports). Really I followed your advice to the letter before you've even posted! I tried just steam rolling the province but the lack of any trading partners or foreign ports (the Otomo and Shoni very quickly outpaced my navy meant that I was in the negative very quickly. My focus on troops meant that my states were super underdeveloped and I basically went bankrupt within 4 years. I started disbanding units but the Shoni showed up with a full stack at my capital and that was basically it for that game. I started a new campaign and instead too my time a bit. I didn't rush the trading ports, instead building up a small fleet of medium bunes, which crush Bow Koboya's (sic?) early on before people have flaming arrows. After taking the first town, the only units I spent any money on at all were two Katana Samurai, all of the rest of my money went into town developmment: farms and harbours and roads. I also took that lovely province that Ito holds early game, can't remember the name for the life of me, much quicker. Either way, neither Shoni nor Otomo declared war on me this time around, and although neither are really willing to trade with me it's allowed me to focus my navy abroad to get trading partners and stuff. So overall this time around, due to a combination of luck (not getting war declared on me instantly) and more town investment, I'm doing very very well. I'm at war now with the Otomo but I've killed their Daiymo and crushed most of their navy, etc. It really feels like you're just at a huge disadvantage in the first couple of years because the AI seems to start with a lot more poo poo. I kind of wish there was a no-fog of war mod for the campaign so that you could see exactly how the AI functions (if it's cheating and stuff) early on.
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Jan 12, 2013 19:33
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Brownie posted:Well the diplomacy screen only said one thing, that I was a different religion than them (it was the Shoni and the Otomo, both of which are christian early on), but I'm actually pretty sure it was because I had the trade points (the first thing both clans did was attack the trade ports). Really I followed your advice to the letter before you've even posted! I tried just steam rolling the province but the lack of any trading partners or foreign ports (the Otomo and Shoni very quickly outpaced my navy meant that I was in the negative very quickly. My focus on troops meant that my states were super underdeveloped and I basically went bankrupt within 4 years. I started disbanding units but the Shoni showed up with a full stack at my capital and that was basically it for that game. Hmm. It's been a while since I played, so I'm going a bit off memory, but it may be that you're "overdeveloping" your army - spending too much time and resources building them up with the biggest and the best before you send them into the field. That's not really economically feasible in the very first years of the game - slamming out some ashigaru and the odd starter samurai (usually the yari, I think?), enough to get you one stack's worth of troops, is usually enough. Heck, depending on the situation of your target clan, you don't even need a full stack, necessarily. The game is fairly well balanced right from the start so that most clans are roughly even in strength with their neighbors, so if you strike quickly you should face them more or less evenly, as long as you face one enemy at a time. Actually, come to think of it, I just took a closer look at what you said. They declared war on you, not the other way around? That's a problem - during the first few turns you really want to be curb-stomping your closest neighbors the moment you have an army that can beat theirs in the field (roughly even if you're confident in your warfighting skills, one or two more samurai or three-four more ashigaru if you're not). Like I said, don't stop attacking until you have at LEAST three provinces, and preferably a few more. I'm pretty sure every clan starts out at war or about to go to war with some clan or other - whoever you start off against, make it a priority to annihilate them entirely as soon as you can. Forget about naval war, too, at least until you've carved out a nice little stronghold for yourself - that can wait until you're established. When fighting close, small neighbors, resources spent on the army to crush their strongholds and wipe their clans off the map (thus eliminating their blockade fleets) beats resources spent fighting naval skirmishes that temporarily keep your trade routes open. All that being said, as I mentioned earlier, it's been a while since I played and it's possible I'm telling you stuff you already tried, so I apologize if I'm doing that! It's just that I distinctly remember it being fairly simple to get yourself established right at the start in Shogun 2, and was trying to work off memory to remember what it was that was done. Incidentally, what difficulty level are you playing at?
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Jan 12, 2013 21:09
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